Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #601 of 1918 Old 12-16-2012, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danpetit View Post

Hey all -
I am thinking of buying this receiver but am wondering if anyone has tried bi-amping the fronts in a 7.1 configuration PLUS a second 2 channel zone. After reviewing the manual, I can't see how this is done.
Any ideas?

ideas? sure, the manual is right, it can't be done

think about it...how many internal amps does this receiver have? try 9. it's a 9.2 channel receiver not an 11.2 channel receiver.

to bi-amp front l/r takes 4 amps, center 1, side surrounds 2, backs 2, speaker B's 2 = 11 total amps

make sense?

forget about passive bi-amping anyway, it doesn't have a real significant benefit. this has been discussed hundreds of times in all the Pioneer & Denon threads. if you want speaker B's, you'll need to use the 7.2 + speaker B setup.

Steve
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post #602 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 11:21 AM
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I've looked at other comparable AVR from Onkyo/Integra, Denon/Marantz and none of of have more than 9 internal amps on this year's models. The good news is, but I've not tried, that all the pre-out on SC-68 are available all the time and you can use external amp(s) to add to any channel(s) you'd like. I just wish that I can use the 2 back amps for something else in the main zone as my room has no space for them.
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post #603 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

ideas? sure, the manual is right, it can't be done
think about it...how many internal amps does this receiver have? try 9. it's a 9.2 channel receiver not an 11.2 channel receiver.
to bi-amp front l/r takes 4 amps, center 1, side surrounds 2, backs 2, speaker B's 2 = 11 total amps
make sense?
forget about passive bi-amping anyway, it doesn't have a real significant benefit. this has been discussed hundreds
of times in all the Pioneer & Denon threads. if you want speaker B's, you'll need to use the 7.2 + speaker B setup.

Makes perfect sense, but it is advertised as an 11 channel system. I have an extra amp, so I guess what I'm really looking to do is see if this configuation is attainable with an external 2 channel amp added to the mix. Presumable I could use with to power zone 2.
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post #604 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danpetit View Post

Makes perfect sense, but it is advertised as an 11 channel system. I have an extra amp, so I guess what I'm really looking to do is see if this configuation is attainable with an external 2 channel amp added to the mix. Presumable I could use with to power zone 2.

actually, it's not smile.gif

because you can't output front heights & front wides at the same time. Pioneer specifically says 9.2 not 11.2. you're making an assumption based on the number of speaker connections not the way it really works, sorry.

and no, based on all available information from Pioneer, this year's models cannot output 11 channels at the same time, even with an external amp. not only does all the information published by Pioneer says this, I have personally asked the head of marketing at Pioneer US, Chris Walker, known on the forum as Walkamo.

even if you use an external switcher to switcher one pair of channels between biamps, or sides or backs to the B set, you'd have a MCACC calibration that wouldn't apply to the B's so you'd have to turn the MCACC presets completely off, negatively impacting your main room use.

on page 35 of the manual, in discussing adding ext amps, there's a statement that the sound from the surround back channels depends on how you've configured the speaker system setup settings shown on page 98. and you are back to square 1 since 7.2 biamp + sp B is not an option. the preamp assignments are governed by the same speaker options in the setup menu, as opposed to Denon 4520 where the preamps are free assignable.

AFAIK, the only receiver that has 11 ch preamp output with the ability to send 11 ch's simultaneously are Denon's 4311 and new 4520. And I'm not 100% sure just pretty sure smile.gif If you check Denon's manual, you will find 11 ch preamp assign options. I don't know how Onkyo's 5010 works since I have not thoroughly read its manual nor owned an Onkyo.

you are most welcome to try and if you succeed, please let us know how you did it wink.gif

Steve
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post #605 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

The good news is, but I've not tried, that all the pre-out on SC-68 are available all the time and you can use external amp(s) to add to any channel(s) you'd like. I just wish that I can use the 2 back amps for something else in the main zone as my room has no space for them.

I don't think so but if you have one, please try it & report back smile.gif

how did you reach that conclusion, based on what information?

there is no indication that what you say is so. and the preamp outputs are governed by the same speaker setup menu as the internal amps. see above post and SC-68 manual pages 35, 98, among others. Pioneer does not have free assignable preamp & amp outputs like the Denon 4311/4520.

It's possible that next year's model will have that option but unless I'm missing something somewhere and Chris Walker @ Pioneer misunderstood my own question on this issue, I don't think 11 channels are simultaneously available from the preamp outputs.

Steve
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post #606 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

actually, it's not smile.gif
because you can't output front heights & front wides at the same time. Pioneer specifically says 9.2 not 11.2. you're making an assumption based on the number of speaker connections not the way it really works, sorry.
and no, based on all available information from Pioneer, this year's models cannot output 11 channels at the same time, even with an external amp. not only does all the information published by Pioneer says this, I have personally asked the head of marketing at Pioneer US, Chris Walker, known on the forum as Walkamo. You are free to PM him using his forum name if you'd like. He & I have had several phone calls on the 68 since I have met Chris at several CEDIA shows and he knows who I am from the forum.
even if you use an external switcher to switcher one pair of channels between biamps, or sides or backs to the B set, you'd have a MCACC calibration that wouldn't apply to the B's so you'd have to turn the MCACC presets completely off, negatively impacting your main room use.
I'm puzzled why you think you can do something when the manual has no such option? on page 35 of the manual, in discussing adding ext amps, there's a statement that the sound from the surround back channels depends on how you've configured the speaker system setup settings shown on page 98. and you are back to square 1 since 7.2 biamp + sp B is not an option. the preamp assignments are governed by the same speaker options in the setup menu, as opposed to Denon 4520 where the preamps are free assignable.
AFAIK, the only receiver that has 11 ch preamp output with the ability to send 11 ch's simultaneously are Denon's 4311 and new 4520. And I'm not 100% sure just pretty sure smile.gif If you check Denon's manual, you will find 11 ch preamp assign options. I don't know how Onkyo's 5010 works since I have not thoroughly read its manual nor owned an Onkyo.
you are most welcome to try and if you succeed, please let us know how you did it wink.gif

Steve,
The 4311 and 4520 have 11 pre-amps, but only 9 active amps. Two of the channels have to be powered by an external amp. This post suggests that at a minimum, either the front mains (L/R) or the front heights have to be powered that external amp:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442882/denon-4520ci-external-amp#post_22653203

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6
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post #607 of 1918 Old 12-17-2012, 06:58 PM
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REGARDING THE PANDORA UPDATE FOR PIONEER RECEIVERS...
I have success updating my pioneer SC-61 using my sons skateboard novelty USB Drive.... I tried all my Quality USB drives and always got an "error message 6" and out of frustration (and someone else posting similar results on a different forum) i tried my sons el cheapo USB drive and it worked on the first try!!! I hope this post helps somebody some aggravation...
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post #608 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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^^
congratulations! smile.gif
as long as you got it to work that's what counts wink.gif

Steve
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post #609 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I don't think so but if you have one, please try it & report back smile.gif
how did you reach that conclusion, based on what information?
there is no indication that what you say is so. and the preamp outputs are governed by the same speaker setup menu as the internal amps. see above post and SC-68 manual pages 35, 98, among others. Pioneer does not have free assignable preamp & amp outputs like the Denon 4311/4520.
It's possible that next year's model will have that option but unless I'm missing something somewhere and Chris Walker @ Pioneer misunderstood my own question on this issue, I don't think 11 channels are simultaneously available from the preamp outputs.

I believe you are right. I need to remove "all the time" from my previous post. On page 35 of the manual, it says "it's possible to add additional amplifliers to very channel of your system using the pre-outs", but it doesn't say if they can all be active simultaneously. The diagram certainly shows that all preout channels can all be connected to external amps. I can't test this configuration but I think the real question may be that do you have any music/movie that will produce sound on every channel (specifically the height and wide) simultaneously.

I don't really know but I want to believe that the height and the wide pre-out can both be active but not at the same time (sounds like multitasking to a computer:rolleyes:). If that's the case then I'd say that's "practically" a 11.2 for me as there may not be many situations that you'd need height and wide simultaneouly. Hmm.. I wonder what it'd do when it does happen:eek:, lol.
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post #610 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 10:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiriamSokol View Post

REGARDING THE PANDORA UPDATE FOR PIONEER RECEIVERS...
I have success updating my pioneer SC-61 using my sons skateboard novelty USB Drive.... I tried all my Quality USB drives and always got an "error message 6" and out of frustration (and someone else posting similar results on a different forum) i tried my sons el cheapo USB drive and it worked on the first try!!! I hope this post helps somebody some aggravation...

Actually this makes sense to me. All USB flash drives aren't the same.

It is well known by people who use flash drives a lot (I carry 4 around in a specially-made wallet) that not all flash drives work with all USB ports.

The smaller and cheaper the flash drive, the less likely it is to be a large capacity fancy "high speed" USB drive.

It is the fancy large capacity high speed USB drives (some of which aren't all that large or fast) that give some USB ports tummy aches.

The smaller and cheaper the flash drive, the more likely it is to work anywhere. 1 GB is a nice number.
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post #611 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

AFAIK, the only receiver that has 11 ch preamp output with the ability to send 11 ch's simultaneously are Denon's 4311 and new 4520. And I'm not 100% sure just pretty sure smile.gif

There is a blurb on Denon 4520 manual, page 94, it says "Depending on the Amp Assign setting, audio connot be output simultaneouly from the surroundback, front height, and front wide speakers." However, I believe this is referring to its internal amps, not preouts.
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post #612 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post


yup, you certainly can connect them all up smile.gif and I had forgotten when I posted but there is an auto speaker switching option in the speaker selector (button on remote & front panel) that can automatically switch between heights & widths depending on the audio input. I don't know how this works since I don't & can't really use wides...no way for me to test it redface.gif

but somebody with both certainly can check it out and let everyone know how well it works. I don't know if it works on the basis on encoding (like the new NeoX encoded Expendables 2) or some algorithm that determines which one is "best". The speaker selector option is FH/FW On.

could be interesting smile.gif

Steve
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post #613 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 04:06 PM
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For the full auto MCACC set up, I'd say the improvement is great. However, I feel that my right front sounds a bit heavier than the left. I happen to see the following section in the manual:

"Performing the Full Auto MCACC procedure corrects the distance to a precision of 0.5 inch, but the Precision Distance function lets you adjust the distance to the speakers (their position) with a precision of under 0.5 inch".

Is it really? Has anyone tried and verified the result to be that precise? Mine isn't but I need to say when I ran the full set up I had my big TV in the center of the room (so I can pull all the cables). That must have affected the precision.
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post #614 of 1918 Old 12-18-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

For the full auto MCACC set up, I'd say the improvement is great. However, I feel that my right front sounds a bit heavier than the left. I happen to see the following section in the manual:
"Performing the Full Auto MCACC procedure corrects the distance to a precision of 0.5 inch, but the Precision Distance function lets you adjust the distance to the speakers (their position) with a precision of under 0.5 inch".
Is it really? Has anyone tried and verified the result to be that precise? Mine isn't but I need to say when I ran the full set up I had my big TV in the center of the room (so I can pull all the cables). That must have affected the precision.

You will find alot of usefull info on this site: http://www.avsforum.com/t/824554/setting-up-your-home-theater-101
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post #615 of 1918 Old 12-19-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

You will find alot of usefull info on this site: http://www.avsforum.com/t/824554/setting-up-your-home-theater-101

Theater 101 is a wonderful thread. But my question was specifically if someone can validate if MCACC is indeed down to 0.5 inch precision (based on what the manual says). If that's the case, I need to do more work because mine isn't.
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post #616 of 1918 Old 12-19-2012, 10:14 AM
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^^^

1) are you planning on listening with your head locked in a vice at the exact poaition of the mic? if not, don't worry about it...

2) it would not be uncommon for the reported "distance" to be different than the physical distance... it is measuring for delay, which can (and is) affected by the acoustics of your room... it merely shows it to you as "distance"...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #617 of 1918 Old 12-19-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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^^
I was going to post that tongue.gifwink.gif you beat me to it...

ccotenj is right on both points. no need to obsess about < 1/2" and it isn't just the physical distance - it includes the nano or millisec delays going thru electronic circuitry & processing.

Steve
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post #618 of 1918 Old 12-19-2012, 09:11 PM
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^^^
My son was showing me a sonar application on his new iPhone 5 and it can measure distance between an object and the phone (wirelessly). I didn't believe it initially but then was totally amazed by it. So, when I saw the MCACC precision description, I immediately linked the two together. LOL

I played with MCACC a little. It does make a difference when I moved the speaker position just 0.5inch closer.
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post #619 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 04:10 AM
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^^^

that app sounds wicked cool... what is the name of it, i want to download it... smile.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #620 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

It does make a difference when I moved the speaker position just 0.5inch closer.

what speakers do you have, soniky?

Steve
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post #621 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

what speakers do you have, soniky?
Polk Lsi7, 9, 25 and C.
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post #622 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 01:10 PM
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^^^
that app sounds wicked cool... what is the name of it, i want to download it... smile.gif
Active Sonar, by Apptomic
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post #623 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 08:49 PM
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Very new and have worked on this all day and I'm almost done with my setup however kind of suck now.

1. Is it possible to setup Apple TV with Zone 3 RCA output? *When on the zone 3 output selector all my options are listed except for "Apple TV" I have setup. * I'm thinking maybe the zone of this device needs to be changed to a different zone.

2. Can the built in Airplay on the SC-67 Only output to zone 3 ?

thanks
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post #624 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 09:06 PM
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Pandora

I have a small issue. My Pandora on my Pioneer shows minimal icons and no controls. Is this the internet Pandora? I alo have to press RESUME from a list with my Pioneer. I thought at one time it just played without pressing RESUME.I think something is wrong here, can anyone point it out for me?
The Pandora on my OPPO and Denon show a lot of controls and a list of previously listened to songs.
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post #625 of 1918 Old 12-20-2012, 10:11 PM
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Help - unable to install the USB-DAC driver..

I decided to take the plunge and went out and bought a SC-68 last weekend. I am trying to get the USB-DAC working, but I can't seem to even get the USB driver to install.

I ran the supplied CD and selected the option to install the USB driver, accepted the terms and conditions and then it downloaded the setup.exe file from the CD to the downloads folder for my browser. I double-clicked on this but nothing happens!

Next thing I tried was to copy the AV_USB_DRIVER directory from the CD to my hard drive and run setup.exe from there. This got me a little further and got to the point where it asked me 'Please connect the Pioneer USB Device', so I connected my USB cable and clicked 'OK'. Then it came back and asked me the same question again. It did this a third time and then the program closed.

This is really frustrating. Inconsider myself to be quite computer literate, I have built many PC's, installed operating systems many times, but this has got me stumped. Very frustrating.

I am trying to install the driver on a Windows XP Pro machine. This is fairly recent install of the OS with few programs installed. It is my media centre PC which I have been using to stream 24/96 FLAV from my Mapleshade/HiFace adapter for the past few months. I have not had any issues installing software or drivers on this PC until now.

The USB cable is quite long so I will try to get a short one and try that, but other than that I am out of ideas.

I have read of a few people in this thread who have got the USB-DAC working so I am hoping that someone can help.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
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post #626 of 1918 Old 12-21-2012, 03:36 AM
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Congrats on ur purchase of the 68....I just got the 67 a cpl of months ago and it is frikin awsum.......I just redid my MAN-CAVE.....and went all out with new gear.......my main speakers are Polk Audio RTiA9's and these babies sukk up alotta power.....so Im going to get an independent power amp ....Im looking at the Emotiva XPR-5 400 watts X 5......Gotta love bigboy toys !!! Have fun with ur new 68 !!
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post #627 of 1918 Old 12-21-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbear View Post

Help - unable to install the USB-DAC driver..
I decided to take the plunge and went out and bought a SC-68 last weekend. I am trying to get the USB-DAC working, but I can't seem to even get the USB driver to install.
.

I wanted to mention that the computer which I am trying to install the USB-DAC driver does not have AVNavigator installed. Instead I installed AVNavigator on a different computer, connected to the same network which the SC-68 is on. I am wondering if AVNavigator has to be installed to somehow enable the USB port to respond during the driver installation process?? I did however make sure (via AVNav on the other computer) that the USB-DAC port is enabled.

I am trying to get help from Pioneer Canada support at the moment but going by my last two requests for help, I might never get a reply frown.gif

BTW, I forgot to mention in my reference earlier to using the Mapleshade adapter on this computer previously that it uses asynchronous USB, and I am connecting the SC-68 to the same USB port on my computer. The point I am making is that I see absolutely no reason why the SC-68 would not be able to use this same port.

If any one has any ideas/suggestions please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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post #628 of 1918 Old 12-21-2012, 09:45 AM
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Anybody have audio dropout issues with Total recall 2012? I did with my SC-67.
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post #629 of 1918 Old 12-21-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Anybody have audio dropout issues with Total recall 2012? I did with my SC-67.

It's been mentioned in a review I read on high def digest... not a Pioneer issue I suppose.
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post #630 of 1918 Old 12-21-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehale View Post

Pandora
I have a small issue. My Pandora on my Pioneer shows minimal icons and no controls. Is this the internet Pandora? I alo have to press RESUME from a list with my Pioneer. I thought at one time it just played without pressing RESUME.I think something is wrong here, can anyone point it out for me?
The Pandora on my OPPO and Denon show a lot of controls and a list of previously listened to songs.
Dave

You should see more controls on your monitor via the HDMI interface (won't display on composite interface). Resume simply get back to your last station you played. You can select other stations via the remote control once you see them listed on your monitor. However, don't select Log Out as that will force you to re-enter your id and password next time you want to get in. Sometime, haven't figure out entirely, that the Stop button on the remote won't work on it for some reason.
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Pioneer , Pioneer Elite Sc 67 9 2 Channel Thx Select 2 Plus A V Receiver , Pioneer Elite Sc 68 9 2 Channel Thx Ultra 2 Plus A V Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers

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