Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1711 of 1848 Old 10-30-2013, 07:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by leedash13 View Post

Hmmm, well that receiver is certainly comparable power wise, I don't think that's the issue. But is it possible that there were extra EQ or DSP settings on at the time that you auditioned at Vision's Electronics? Also keep in mind that you're still in the process of 'breaking in' your speakers if it's only been a matter of weeks since you purchased them. The pair you demoed in store were probably well broken in at that time. I know some people scoff at the idea of speaker break-in, but those Q900's definitely may noticeably change after about 60-100 hours of use.
Almost all cone speakers can and will change at about the 100hr mark in my opinion especially subs.
oztech is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1712 of 1848 Old 10-31-2013, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Almost all cone speakers can and will change at about the 100hr mark in my opinion especially subs.

Can you give me a final answer on bi-amping the KEF Q900's? So many people have told me it does nothing, but I have spoken to many owners of the same speakers and they have said it dramatically improves these speakers. I know for many speakers it does nothing, but I really want to give it a try. If I am using the extra amp's on my SC-67 is that a "passive" bi-amping? So many people have different views when it comes to bi-amping I find.
jer181 is offline  
post #1713 of 1848 Old 10-31-2013, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^ yes using the SC-67 amps is passive bi-amping. Active is when you actually replace the crossover IN the speakers or they have a jumper which can be removed to break the connection between them - so that each driver has its own crossover and amp. That is active and can result in some improvement IF you know what you are doing with the speaker's internal crossovers. Passive biamping is highly questionable in doing anything but you are welcome to give it a try and let us know smile.gif

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1714 of 1848 Old 10-31-2013, 02:14 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^ yes using the SC-67 amps is passive bi-amping. Active is when you actually replace the crossover IN the speakers or they have a jumper which can be removed to break the connection between them - so that each driver has its own crossover and amp. That is active and can result in some improvement IF you know what you are doing with the speaker's internal crossovers. Passive biamping is highly questionable in doing anything but you are welcome to give it a try and let us know smile.gif


The speakers I have have a knob that you turn and breaks that link.... wouldn't that mean it would be active bi-amping then? If it's not do you think there is any way I could make it so I can bi-amp them? (they are KEF Q900).
jer181 is offline  
post #1715 of 1848 Old 10-31-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^^ I don't own or ever used your speakers so could not say. you should consult your owner's manual for your speakers. could be for allowing active biamping, but I'd be guessing. consult your KEF manual for details on what it's for and how to use. if it just separates the crossovers, then you could use 2 amps from the receiver, one for each end.

but if it disables them, it's designed for those who want to replace the circuit in the speaker with an external crossover box and that can get quite expensive and not for people who don't know anything about how crossovers work, the type of crossover design used (Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, etc) and the specified frequencies and slopes that KEF designs it for. if you are new to this and know nothing about crossover designs, then you shouldn't be playing in that sandbox wink.gif Crossovers that work in digital domain can be bought from companies like Behringer, DBX, pro audio companies like QSC & Crown. And you can literally spend from hundreds to thousands (Bryston's analog crossover box with selectable freq's and slopes costs about $3000 and Pass Labs is even more) A Marchand analog box can be had for about $1000-1200.

So you see, you are on a quest that can either 1) accomplishes very little or 2) requires a fair amount of knowledge about speaker designs and possibly a lot of money.

If your speakers have relatively high efficiency (say 90-95 dB/watt at 1 meter), then the amps in the SC-67 will be perfectly capable of driving them to more volume than your ears can stand in a normal sized room smile.gif passive bi-amping really doesn't do much other than possibly add a few dB of headroom, it certainly doesn't appreciably increase the power driving the speaker and if you really need more power for low efficiency speakers, then bolting on an external amp is a far better way than the hassle of active bi-amping.

Some audiophiles tinker with active bi-amping to improve on the quality of parts used in the circuit supplied by the mfg or to experiment with different crossover freq's and slopes. and some like to use different types of amps on each driver, for example, a robust solid state amp on the woofer, and a tube amp on the mids and high freq drivers. Are you in this category? wink.gif if you are, then you should be using separates instead of a receiver wink.gif

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1716 of 1848 Old 10-31-2013, 10:23 PM
Member
 
soniky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
SS9001 gave an expert's version. Now, I am offering my dummies version:
passive bi-amp is no more than doubling up your speaker cables. If your cable is not thick enough, doubling up may help some. Active bi-amping is to send different frequencies to different drivers. Now, since you have one sc-67, it will send all the same frequencies down the wires, either 1 wire or two wires it won't matter. The only way to change the frequencies before it gets to the drivers is at the crossover or an external box in between. (I had the same question as yours and ss9001 helped me to forget about active bi-amping) biggrin.gif
soniky is offline  
post #1717 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 07:33 AM
Member
 
bladou20's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Is there any way to see which memory preset is which? They are labeled Memory 1, 2 etc, but have no mention of symmetry, or all ch adj. I realize there is a default setting, but when I checked auto Mcacc again, it did not have the default setting any longer. Is it telling me what the new setting will be if I run Mcacc again or is that the current one?
bladou20 is online now  
post #1718 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
On KEF's, for the heck of it I took a look at Q900's.

Wow, for a big name speaker company known for excellent speakers, they have a poor website for getting detailed information, like manuals - there aren't any for any of the Q series except the sub tongue.gif

I got more info from Stereophile's review of the Q900 than from KEF! rolleyes.gif pretty crappy way to promote one of your products! I would expect that from some internet direct companies, NOT a big name UK speaker company. not even the UK part of the site had anything but cursory specs and marketing brochure. pretty pathetic.

the only description of the knob referred to by jer181 is in the Stereophile review, nowhere on KEF's site. I've heard the former $15000 Reference KEF's in someone's home theater and would have expected more attention to detail to potential buyers from a company making speakers of that quality.

That site makes Magnepan's (in Minnesota) website seem stellar wink.gif At least I can download a F-ing manual rolleyes.gif Even little SVS in the US, an internet direct company well-respected for its subs, has FAR more details and information on its speakers. As do countless others. In fairness, there are manuals for the high dollar References but pretty sloppy not to have them for all their product series.

jer, I'm not dissing the speaker which I'm sure is very high quality, just the company for its incompleteness and lack of care.

If I read the Stereophile review correctly, yes, turning the knob all the way in 1 direction breaks the terminal connection between drivers and allows passive bi-amp.

but before you go to the trouble, just google "passive vs active bi-amping" and I think you'll find what we're saying is true wink.gif even with "double" the amp power. do you realize that doubling the amp power adds 3 dB volume and that's ONLY when you hit a sudden large peak that requires max power output. and that it takes 10 times the power to approx double perceived volume.

your speakers are 1) 8 ohm nominal impedance, 2) 91 dB efficient and 3) power requirement of 15-200 watts. they will present a friendly load to the receiver, not hard to drive, especially if you use a subwoofer.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1719 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 09:15 AM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

SS9001 gave an expert's version. Now, I am offering my dummies version:
passive bi-amp is no more than doubling up your speaker cables. If your cable is not thick enough, doubling up may help some. Active bi-amping is to send different frequencies to different drivers. Now, since you have one sc-67, it will send all the same frequencies down the wires, either 1 wire or two wires it won't matter. The only way to change the frequencies before it gets to the drivers is at the crossover or an external box in between. (I had the same question as yours and ss9001 helped me to forget about active bi-amping) biggrin.gif

Any idea how to add more low end to these speakers then? The high's are great but those speakers should have way more low end.... can't figure this one out.
jer181 is offline  
post #1720 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
get a subwoofer for one smile.gif

even though they are rated for mid 30's Hz, it is rare that a so called full range speaker can come close to what a true subwoofer can do. My Maggies have output in the 36 Hz range and there's no way in H they can come close to a true sub. if you don't have a sub, it will be one of the best things you can add to your system to improve the home theater experience...trust me on this smile.gif

without a sub, MCACC should have set the 900's to Large, meaning they will get all the bass including the .1 LFE channel. you can manually tweak the 63, 125 and possibly even 250 Hz bands to increase the bass in the Manual Speaker Setup menu IIRC. there's a menu option for manually adjusting the EQ. however, before you try that...your seat just may be sitting a bass null from room positioning. this has been discussed thousands of times, many hundreds of thousands of times in this forum and room dimensions is one of the single-most factors in room bass response. if your seat is in a bass null, no amount of power will significantly change the volume of the freq that has been reduced by standing waves. I recently posted about bass & room response in another thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428526/the-official-pioneer-elite-sc-61-63-owners-forum/600_100#post_23856785
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428526/the-official-pioneer-elite-sc-61-63-owners-forum/600_100#post_23863693

and how you positioned the mic when doing the calibration makes a big difference. read my 2 posts.

play a song with a lot of bass or better, a set of test tones from mid-20 Hz to 60 Hz and walk around the room - you will find bass getting louder & softer as you walk from one end to the other and side to side. that's standing waves at work smile.gif

if you do have sub, to increase the bass, set your fronts and all surrounds, center to Small in MCACC speaker setup to force the sub to handle the LFE channel and all bass < the bass management crossover point. if your surrounds & center have response in the 60-80 Hz range, then set them to Small and set the crossover to 80 Hz. if they only go to 100 or higher, then you'll have to make a decision to either have them miss a little bass between 80 - 100 or go with 100 HZ for all speakers, you only get one crossover point in Pioneers.

if you've already have a sub and done these things, then look at moving the seat forward or back 6-12 inches, or move the sub or move the speakers to find the point where you perceive higher bass. this is all about room dimensions, listening position and sub/speaker location. no auto EQ system can do it all.

and FYI - in case you don't know this smile.gif -

just because the speaker is capable to a given bass freq, doesn't mean it has a lot of sound at those freq's either. it could produce 32 Hz but be down 20 dB or more from the rest of its output. specing a speaker's freq range without the minus dB output means it could be only a couple dB's lower in volume or a whole lot. KEF claims 32 HZ, +- 3dB which means theoretically, they are quite capable of good output at the low end...providing you are not listening in nulls where you perceive bass the most - say from 45-70 HZ range.

but biamping per se won't do anything to increase the bass in your room. that takes some measurements, experimentation with locating the sub or front Large speakers, where you put the main listening seats, and some tweaking of EQ, you can also try to turn Phase Control off or Standing Wave filter off and see if that makes a difference. I can 100% truthfully tell you that in my room, I can move my head about 6-12" forward and it makes some bass freq's louder and it's NOT subtle wink.gif I happen to be sitting in 2 bass dips, that are true nulls based on room dimensions and I've compensated for it as best as I can with external add-on bass equalizers but I have limitations on moving the sub and limitations on moving the theater seating.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1721 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 11:55 AM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

get a subwoofer for one smile.gif

even though they are rated for mid 30's Hz, it is rare that a so called full range speaker can come close to what a true subwoofer can do. My Maggies have output in the 36 Hz range and there's no way in H they can come close to a true sub. if you don't have a sub, it will be one of the best things you can add to your system to improve the home theater experience...trust me on this smile.gif

without a sub, MCACC should have set the 900's to Large, meaning they will get all the bass including the .1 LFE channel. you can manually tweak the 63, 125 and possibly even 250 Hz bands to increase the bass in the Manual Speaker Setup menu IIRC. there's a menu option for manually adjusting the EQ. however, before you try that...your seat just may be sitting a bass null from room positioning. this has been discussed thousands of times, many hundreds of thousands of times in this forum and room dimensions is one of the single-most factors in room bass response. if your seat is in a bass null, no amount of power will significantly change the volume of the freq that has been reduced by standing waves. I recently posted about bass & room response in another thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428526/the-official-pioneer-elite-sc-61-63-owners-forum/600_100#post_23856785
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428526/the-official-pioneer-elite-sc-61-63-owners-forum/600_100#post_23863693

and how you positioned the mic when doing the calibration makes a big difference. read my 2 posts.

play a song with a lot of bass or better, a set of test tones from mid-20 Hz to 60 Hz and walk around the room - you will find bass getting louder & softer as you walk from one end to the other and side to side. that's standing waves at work smile.gif

if you do have sub, to increase the bass, set your fronts and all surrounds, center to Small in MCACC speaker setup to force the sub to handle the LFE channel and all bass < the bass management crossover point. if your surrounds & center have response in the 60-80 Hz range, then set them to Small and set the crossover to 80 Hz. if they only go to 100 or higher, then you'll have to make a decision to either have them miss a little bass between 80 - 100 or go with 100 HZ for all speakers, you only get one crossover point in Pioneers.

if you've already have a sub and done these things, then look at moving the seat forward or back 6-12 inches, or move the sub or move the speakers to find the point where you perceive higher bass. this is all about room dimensions, listening position and sub/speaker location. no auto EQ system can do it all.

and FYI - in case you don't know this smile.gif -

just because the speaker is capable to a given bass freq, doesn't mean it has a lot of sound at those freq's either. it could produce 32 Hz but be down 20 dB or more from the rest of its output. specing a speaker's freq range without the minus dB output means it could be only a couple dB's lower in volume or a whole lot. KEF claims 32 HZ, +- 3dB which means theoretically, they are quite capable of good output at the low end...providing you are not listening in nulls where you perceive bass the most - say from 45-70 HZ range.

but biamping per se won't do anything to increase the bass in your room. that takes some measurements, experimentation with locating the sub or front Large speakers, where you put the main listening seats, and some tweaking of EQ, you can also try to turn Phase Control off or Standing Wave filter off and see if that makes a difference. I can 100% truthfully tell you that in my room, I can move my head about 6-12" forward and it makes some bass freq's louder and it's NOT subtle wink.gif I happen to be sitting in 2 bass dips, that are true nulls based on room dimensions and I've compensated for it as best as I can with external add-on bass equalizers but I have limitations on moving the sub and limitations on moving the theater seating.

Thanks right now I am just listening in 2.1 stereo mode as I will keep building on this system when I get more money... My room is about 15ftx12ft with 2 windows along the side wall. Its a bonus room above a garage so there is a small set of stairs leading up to the room. My couch is on the back wall about 1 1/2ft away from the wall. My speakers are located approx. 6ft apart and toes in towards the sitting position at about a 15 degree angle. The speakers are located approx. 11ft from the seating position. The sub is located between the tv and the speakers on the FR side.

With all of that being said, is there any advice you can give me on speaker placement, and whatnot so that I really can get the best from these speakers. Every little thing will add up I am sure.
jer181 is offline  
post #1722 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 03:19 PM
Member
 
soniky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Jer, everything ss9001 said but not sure why you are not getting enough bass when you have a separate sub already. With a sub, I'd suggest you set the two fronts as small. If you are not sure if your MCACC is done correctly or not, just turn to Pure Direct which disable MCACC and compare.
Some basic things including checking your speaker wires. I'd suggest using 14AWG (1.6mm diameter) and thicker the better. I use 10awg on mine. If the speakers are on carpet, then it's better to spike them to the floor underneath and you will hear a difference if you play loud.
soniky is offline  
post #1723 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

Jer, everything ss9001 said but not sure why you are not getting enough bass when you have a separate sub already. With a sub, I'd suggest you set the two fronts as small. If you are not sure if your MCACC is done correctly or not, just turn to Pure Direct which disable MCACC and compare.
Some basic things including checking your speaker wires. I'd suggest using 14AWG (1.6mm diameter) and thicker the better. I use 10awg on mine. If the speakers are on carpet, then it's better to spike them to the floor underneath and you will hear a difference if you play loud.

The speakers are turned to small right now and the crossover set to 80hz. I believe the wire I am using is 12G copper wire. The spikes are in and as high as they go off the ground. Going to try bi-wiring when I get home for the hell of it. I am out of options and a little disappointed that these speakers are not making me say wow... Almost at witts end... not sure if I have to buy a separate, dedicated 2 channel amp to run these and keep my SC-67 for when I get surround sound speakers or just what I should do....sighhh
jer181 is offline  
post #1724 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 03:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
The only thing I could think would be to purchase a db meter and use a test disc and make note of the db in the frequency sweep that will tell you if a dip or null exists also a spike.
oztech is offline  
post #1725 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 03:32 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

The only thing I could think would be to purchase a db meter and use a test disc and make note of the db in the frequency sweep that will tell you if a dip or null exists also a spike.

And what if I find a dip or null? or a spike?
jer181 is offline  
post #1726 of 1848 Old 11-01-2013, 05:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Then you could either move your speakers are seating position to either get rid of it or subdue it to an acceptable level.
One thing you can't cure if you set in the middle of the room is a null you either have to move forward/backward several feet.
This will also give you an idea of what you are lacking at what Hz and give others an idea as to what can be addressed.
oztech is offline  
post #1727 of 1848 Old 11-02-2013, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post

My couch is on the back wall about 1 1/2ft away from the wall...The speakers are located approx. 11ft from the seating position. The sub is located between the tv and the speakers on the FR side.

as soniky suggested, do some comparisons between Pure Direct and Direct on 2 channel stereo and 5.1 mixed down to Stereo format in Auto Surround. with 2 channel sources in Pure Direct, you will NOT have subwoofer but you will be able to hear what your speakers are doing. with 5.1 & Auto Surround mixed down to stereo, you will hear the sub at work. do some listening comparisons. you could also put the Sub into Plus mode in MCACC speaker setup to force it to play with 2 channel sources in Direct mode.

with your couch only 1- 1.5 ft from the back wall, that can be trickier measuring position for any room EQ system, because of bass standing waves. all bass freq's will be reflected right off the wall, and will either make some of the freq's sound louder or softer than if your couch were further away. If some of the ones MCACC is measuring (63, 125, 250) are louder right at the wall, then the system could be trying to compensate by reducing them in the calibration. you may have to move your seat further away or move the mic a bit forward. OR you can go into the manual EQ menu and see if they've been cut into the negative or near zero, and give each a little boost until it sounds better. there will be pink or white noise playing so you can tell how much louder or softer it is or as oztech says, get a sound pressure meter (Radio Shack has a nice one for $50) and so your own dB measurements at each bass octave (32, 63, 125, 250) using test tones and see for yourself.

if you get better bass in Pure Direct with the speakers only vs Direct or Stereo with a sub, then you may have an issue with the mic measuring position so close to the wall.

all this sounds complicated but it's not set it & forget. buying good speakers is a big part of the puzzle but the room itself also plays a big part.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1728 of 1848 Old 11-02-2013, 03:52 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
thank you very much for that! I will try and let you know!
jer181 is offline  
post #1729 of 1848 Old 11-02-2013, 04:05 PM
Member
 
flrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This is one of the threads I follow and it happened to answer one of my questions.
I was trying to get the sub to work when listening in Direct mode, although the bass in my fronts are adequate sometimes it is nice to have the sub in there.

If I did it right, I selected 5.1 and then Auto Surround. It seems deceptive because for one you are in 5.1 and then you go to Auto Surround so I thought the speakers would be in 5.1 surround but I checked and only heard the fronts and sub. Then I could also tell by switching between Direct and Auto Surround the sub would go off and on.
flrun is offline  
post #1730 of 1848 Old 11-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Newbie
 
Kris20012013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello All,

I have been reading the forum since November. Once asked a question if any one compared Oppo-95/105 vs. Pioneer BDP - SC-62. Happens I did not get any answer. I bought the Pioneer anyway as Oppo is now part of other room system. I can say I prefer Oppo. But if you own Pioneer AVR then SC-62 is a cheap alternative with great value for money.

Anyway, on the subject of bi-amping. Those who do it say that separation of signal sent to upper range and to lower range decreases potential signal interference and therefore provides better sound clarity.
There are however a lot of people and also speakers manufacturers who believe it makes zero sense, and they do not offer this options on speakers at all. Audio Physic from Germany can be an example.
I have Monitor Audio GS-60 and I do it and I believe to hear the difference, but possibly it is more into "believing" than hearing.

For note, to Bi-AMP you should disconnect the 2 terminals on the speaker. It makes no sense to put signal from 2 amps to 1 Speaker. Fully agree with SS9001 here.
But all speakers that have 2 pairs of terminals also have a way to easily disconnect them. For note, disconnecting them does NOT mean you will change cross-over - it will stay the same. But it will mean top range (or top - mid) is powered SEPARATELY from the low end.

Now, why this can be useful for Jer? Because when you bi-amp you normally are recommended to use the same cables for both upper and lower range, but you do not have to. So you can play with cables and find for the low end cables that will amplify bass. These cables would amplify bass anyway even without bi-amping, but they can behave questionable in the upper range. Bi-amping sets you free.
And in this case, if you use different cables, you do hear the difference and it is then truly hearing vs. believing (difference does not have to mean improvement).

Same as you hear difference between cables without bi-amping. Not saying you should buy 1000 $ cables, but difference between what you get in the box and a decent 200 -300 $ pair of cables is definitely there.
I have tried different cables for upper and lower range with my MA GS 60. I decided I stay with 2 pairs of the same type cables, primarily because I have them already and did not like to spend more money, while I like the sound overall and did not need to "tweak" it into any particular direction.

But if you have a chance to borrow different cables you may play with it and see yourself how it impacts your low end.

Another high end "crazy" option to use bi-amping could be to power from 1 AMP high range and from a different AMP with different characteristic low range. But that I do not foresee to have time to try for long...

Greetings to all of you!

Kris

PS. Are you moving to the new version? I decided to stay. I owe LX-86 as I am in Europe. Only reason why I would move to LX-87 is Sabre. But I decided to stay for now.
Kris20012013 is offline  
post #1731 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 01:54 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Does anyone know how to connect an SC-67 to a network? I have a wireless D-Link DIR-655 hooked up right beside the AVR. I could even hook it up via cable if the wireless won't work. Any ideas? I read the manual but am still confused what to do, and the CD that came with my unit is in another language other than English.
jer181 is offline  
post #1732 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^^
if the router is literally right next to it, why even consider wireless confused.gif go buy a 3-5 ft CAT5e cable and be done with it. connect to receiver LAN port and to one of the router's LAN ports - end of story.

if your router was 50 ft away and you couldn't run cable without going through walls & doors, then wifi makes sense. you can buy Pioneer's wifi adapter for a premium price or get one from D-Link, Linksys, Netgear, etc. I never use wifi for any of my AV gear, wired only, especially if I plan to do FW updates over the 'net.

to me, just like the bi-amp issue, I recommend taking the path of least resistance - a wired connection will always be preferable for speed, reliable connectivity, and simplicity. you can leave the receiver set to DHCP so that it gets its IP address from the router in the network setup menu. better still if your D-Link supports it - set the router to reserve a specific IP address for the receiver - similar to a static IP address setup but fewer settings to do wink.gif

it's pretty easy, you can have it running in 5 maybe 10 min and no wifi passwords, encryptions to mess with. the receiver is Fast Ethernet only so even using a gigabit port, you'll only see 100 mbit speed to the receiver.

set up a droid or iphone for Pioneer's icontrol 2012 app using the wifi side of your D-Link and you have wireless remote control of the receiver. if you use the app, I highly recommend reserving an IP address in the router for the phone/ipad, since the connection from the phone app to the router will get flaky since its IP is manually entered and when the router assigns it a different address, the app won't connect. it took me a lot episodes of router reboots, turning the phone off & on to get the app to reconnect before I realized what was happening and since I setup a reserved IP address for my iphone, the app has connected flawlessly to the receiver. if you want the app, it's at the itunes apple store, free download. you can get the droid version free also from droid apps.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1733 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
if the router is literally right next to it, why even consider wireless confused.gif go buy a 3-5 ft CAT5e cable and be done with it. connect to receiver LAN port and to router - end of story.

if your router was 50 ft away and you couldn't run cable without tearing down the walls, then going wifi makes sense. you can buy Pioneer's wifi adapter for a premium price or get one from D-Link, Linksys, Netgear, etc.

but to me, just like the bi-amp issue, I recommend taking the path of least resistance - a wired connection will always be preferable for speed, reliable connectivity, and simplicity. you can leave the receiver set to DHCP so that it gets its IP address from the router in the network setup menu. better still if your D-Link supports it - set the router to reserve a specific IP address for the receiver - similar to a static IP address setup but fewer settings to do wink.gif

it's pretty easy, you can have it running in 5 maybe 10 min and no wifi passwords, encryptions to mess with. the receiver is Fast Ethernet only so even using a gigabit port, you'll only see 100 mbit speed to the receiver.

set up a droid or iphone for Pioneer's icontrol 2012 app using the wifi side of your D-Link and you have wireless remote control of the receiver. if you use the app, I highly recommend reserving an IP address in the router for the phone/ipad, since the connection from the phone app to the router will get flaky since its IP is manually entered and when the router assigns it a different address, the app won't connect. it took me a lot episodes of router reboots, turning the phone off & on to get the app to reconnect before I realized what was happening and since I setup a reserved IP address for my iphone, the app has connected flawlessly to the receiver. if you want the app, it's at the itunes apple store, free download. you can get the droid version free also from droid apps.

I have it connected like that already. Although wireless would be nice! want to hook up my PS3, AVR, and computer in a network so I can listen to music on all my devices wireless. Ya I am in my Dlink menu and I was following a step by step on how to go about setting up the DHCP. I understand everything so far just can't find where the MAC address is on my SC-67.
jer181 is offline  
post #1734 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This is where I am stuck...

you can leave the receiver set to DHCP so that it gets its IP address from the router in the network setup menu. better still if your D-Link supports it - set the router to reserve a specific IP address for the receiver

I can't seem to find out how to find the MAC address for the receiver......
jer181 is offline  
post #1735 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 03:34 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I forgot I unplugged the internet cable from the AVR to the wireless router.... I used it to hook up my PS3 as I couldn't get that connected wireless either.... sigghhhh

I'm only 31 years old but sometimes I feel like I am from the stoneage!
jer181 is offline  
post #1736 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 03:47 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
to me, just like the bi-amp issue, I recommend taking the path of least resistance - a wired connection will always be preferable for speed, reliable connectivity, and simplicity. you can leave the receiver set to DHCP so that it gets its IP address from the router in the network setup menu. better still if your D-Link supports it - set the router to reserve a specific IP address for the receiver - similar to a static IP address setup but fewer settings to do wink.gif

it's pretty easy, you can have it running in 5 maybe 10 min and no wifi passwords, encryptions to mess with. the receiver is Fast Ethernet only so even using a gigabit port, you'll only see 100 mbit speed to the receiver.

set up a droid or iphone for Pioneer's icontrol 2012 app using the wifi side of your D-Link and you have wireless remote control of the receiver. if you use the app, I highly recommend reserving an IP address in the router for the phone/ipad, since the connection from the phone app to the router will get flaky since its IP is manually entered and when the router assigns it a different address, the app won't connect. it took me a lot episodes of router reboots, turning the phone off & on to get the app to reconnect before I realized what was happening and since I setup a reserved IP address for my iphone, the app has connected flawlessly to the receiver. if you want the app, it's at the itunes apple store, free download. you can get the droid version free also from droid apps.[/quote]


This is absolutely what I need to do. I do have the option of going into my router setting via a web browser page. From that page there is a menu that says "Add DHCP Reservation. Click "enable" enter name of device under "computer name", then I have to enter an IP address that is within range of the DHCP range and then enter that MAC # for each extra device I want to assign an address to. But that is where I am stuck as I have no clue where to find those MAC address. I can't find anything in the manual that tells me or online. I have tried looking at the back of the receiver to see if it was on a sticker or something but no dice.
jer181 is offline  
post #1737 of 1848 Old 11-09-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^^
MAC Address for Pioneer AVR:

Home Menu >> #5. Network Information - click on this and it's right there along with the IP address the router assigned to it.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1738 of 1848 Old 11-10-2013, 12:54 PM
Senior Member
 
jer181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
MAC Address for Pioneer AVR:

Home Menu >> #5. Network Information - click on this and it's right there along with the IP address the router assigned to it.

Alright I have that and now when I go to enter into my DHCP reservation it does not show up at the bottom of the screen saying that the reservation was made. I do see the IP address assigned in my receiver and everything else.
jer181 is offline  
post #1739 of 1848 Old 11-10-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^^
I don't use D-Link gear, only Netgear, so can't help you on it - consult your D-Link manual & their online FAQ and other documentation. reserving an IP address for a device in my Netgear R6300 router was EZ to do & worked the 1st time. so, you may be missing a step if it's not saving.

If the receiver has an IP address, then you're good. Just be aware that your home has multiple PC's, mobile devices that may be disconnected at various times, the receiver will eventually get a different address. But that it not a problem for playing music, etc. the potential problem is the phone, ipod, ipad app. the phone, pod or pad is what you'll want to have a reserved IP addie for, not the receiver per se. having a reserved one for the AVR is good but not mandatory.

Steve
ss9001 is offline  
post #1740 of 1848 Old 11-10-2013, 11:47 PM
Member
 
soniky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Jer, if you can't make D-link reserve IP based on MAC, you can just specify fixed IP on SC-68 instead of using DHCP. Just pick an IP in the DHCP range specified on your D-link will do. D-link will see that IP is in use and won't assign it to any other devices. However, this is based on that your SC-68 is always active (network standby).
soniky is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Pioneer , Pioneer Elite Sc 67 9 2 Channel Thx Select 2 Plus A V Receiver , Pioneer Elite Sc 68 9 2 Channel Thx Ultra 2 Plus A V Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off