Refurbished Denon 2112? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fotomatt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've come across a refurbished Denon 2112 for a seemingly good price on Accessories4less, but I'm not sure if I should get that or if I should look at a Yamaha, Marantz (also available refurbished) or something else? I'm having problems with a Pioneer receiver now, so ruling out anything from Pioneer. Any suggestions in the $350 - $450 price range?

Pioneer VSX-1021
Samsung UN55D7000
fotomatt1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 10:34 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
What manufacture do you feel all warm and fuzzy with. I'm a Denon/Marantz kinda guy and I get all nervous if I stray away from these two manufactures who are owned by the same corporation. I have a side thing going with Onkyo but don't let anybody know. tongue.gif

"Any suggestions in the $350 - $450 price range?"

New, refurbished or open box?

Accessories4less is a stand up company. I'm also a fanboy of Vann's. Both will reputably get you there. I'll let others recommend additional online retailers. At the level you're looking at in Denon, Marantz or Onkyo, you're going be golden. I'll let a Yamaha or Pioneer fan weigh in on their views as in truth, left/right or middle, my opinion, it's all good. My recommendation, go with what makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

cool.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 11:17 AM
Member
 
Ruhnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'm actually pondering the same question on that or the 2312 from that site. Is the only thing you really lose the full warranty? Is a year long enough to know if a refurb is going to go bad our not?
Ruhnie is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 11:34 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
FWIW, a warranty is nothing more than a bet. The consumer is betting they'll collect the bet and the manufacture is betting the consumer won't collect on the bet.

How long is anything expected to last? Two years, five years, ten years or eternity? The point, how long do you expect this receiver to last before you figure it's time to upgrade?

We got four years and four months out of our last LCD TV. The Marantz lasted two years, Marantz, with it's three year warranty, replaced the unit and in the end, still working, when we gave it away. Our new washer/dryer combo is two years old. Our A/C unit is ten years old. Both units we expect fifteen years out of. Our son is twenty-four years old and our relationship/marriage is thirty years old. The point, how long does anything last? Some things like a television, we're happy when it quits working (okay, the excuse I was looking for) and somethings like a relationship with a loved one, we want to last forever.

The point, you have to answer the question, how long do you expect the receiver to work before it's time to replace it.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 11:43 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhnie View Post

I'm actually pondering the same question on that or the 2312 from that site. Is the only thing you really lose the full warranty? Is a year long enough to know if a refurb is going to go bad our not?

People have been getting the 2312 brand new for $499 from jr.com and electronics-expo.com. Call one or both of those vendors to see if they have any left. By the time you get the 2312 from AC4less with shipping it'l be close to $475. Might as well get a brand new one with 3 year warranty for $25 more.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 07-28-2012, 03:10 PM
Member
 
Ruhnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

People have been getting the 2312 brand new for $499 from jr.com and electronics-expo.com. Call one or both of those vendors to see if they have any left. By the time you get the 2312 from AC4less with shipping it'l be close to $475. Might as well get a brand new one with 3 year warranty for $25 more.

Interesting...both JR and EE websites have the price listed as $598, but JR is out of stock. The EE site says they have both the 2112 and 2312, but I called to ask and was told they have zero stock of the XX12 models. Seems a bit strange to me, but then they offered me the 2313 for $600. I told him I'd call back on Monday. Should I just take that deal? Seems pretty good but I feel like I'm missing something...
Ruhnie is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fotomatt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How good / easy is the setup with the mic on the Denons? I downloaded the manual and see that you need to put the mic in 6 different positions unlike the pioneer which is just 1. How does this compare to the marantz setup?

Pioneer VSX-1021
Samsung UN55D7000
fotomatt1 is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:24 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotomatt1 View Post

How does this compare to the marantz setup?

Set up for the Marantz SR5007 with MultiEQ XT has either six or eight microphone positions; this depending on the mode. In our case, Audyssey automatically defaults to an eight position mic mode after the first room analyzation which had six.

The Marantz set-up was a breeze. Turn the receiver on and the on screen GUI automatically asks you to make normal and expected selections, reset the position of the microphone when requested and voila (assuming correct receiver settings and back of the unit cable hookups), you're golden.

I find that I do have to turn the cable set-top box off and then back on again to get a new HDMI/Optical handshake but other than that, there's no problems.

Anytime speakers are added, changed or moved, one needs to rerun Audyssey but again, it's all automatic; turn everything off that can cause room interference noise or electronic transmission interference off (A/C unit, freezers, parrots, kid yelling in the background, cell phones, etc.), turn the HT equipment on, plug the mic in, Audyssey automatically comes on the screen, follow the onscreen prompts and once again, it's a done deal. Set-up with a Marantz unit is as user friendly of an experience as one can hope for.

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:28 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
Audyssey MultEQ has a maximum of 6 postions while MultEQ XT has 8 positions, so it just depends on which version is in the AVR. The 2112CI and 5007 both feature MultEQ XT so both have 8 mic positions. Note however, that these are not placed in each "seated" position, rather the #1 mic position is the main listening position and the remaining 7 positions should all be within a 2'-3' radius around that #1 mic position.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:35 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Note however, that these are not placed in each "seated" position, rather the #1 mic position is the main listening position and the remaining 7 positions should all be within a 2'-3' radius around that #1 mic position.

FWIW, our GUI indicates it wants a wider area of about four or five feet as indicated by the requested microphone position shown on the GUI at set up. Based on what the GUI asks for, I set the microphone to the left of my ears about three feet, in front on a diagonal of ~five feet, sweep across the front and then hang the mic from the recliner to the outside left which is ~five or six feet from the original mic position and then the final position is the original position for a total of eight readings which includes all normal seating positions at ~ear level; boxing in listener's ears in the process.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:37 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
Regardless of what the GUI recommends ... what I suggested is what Audyssey suggests. wink.gif

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 07:50 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Regardless of what the GUI recommends ... what I suggested is what Audyssey suggests. wink.gif

smile.gif What I posted is what the Audyssy GUI graphically asked for. I'm suppose to advise and argue what comes up on the screen? If the Audyssey onscreen GUI asks for four or five feet and shows pictures of where the request for a microphone placement is suppose to be, the microphone gets moved four or five feet as that's what Audyssey is telling the user to do. FWIW, there are several listening positions and resetting the microphone in the manner the Audyssey, onscreen GUI requested, accounts for all the different listening positions. smile.gif

Here's what Audyssey has to say on the matter: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to

Note the graphically shown microphone positions are more than the recommended two feet distance as not all of us have a tripod handy and must use the coffee table for a microphone support. That's what happens when the real and the ideal world collide.

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:01 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
If you check the physical location of each of the positions 2-8 in that diagram you posted, you'll note that all are within 2'-3' of mic position #1. wink.gif

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:04 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you check the physical location of each of the positions 2-8 in that diagram you posted, you'll note that all are within 2'-3' of mic position #1. wink.gif

Not in our living room they're not. I'll bet dollar to doughnuts, if you pulled a tape and measure the shown positions, based on the displayed standard three cushion sofa, the positions, especially 4 and 6, are much further than two or three feet. That's what happens when the real and the ideal collide.

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:07 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
Like I said ... the mic positions that are taken are NOT where someone actually sits, rather simply random points within 2'-3' from the main listening position #1. Placing the mic where someone actually sits is certainly your choice, but doing so will result in less accurate results.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:12 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Like I said ... the mic positions that are taken are NOT where someone actually sits, rather simply random points within 2'-3' from the main listening position #1. Placing the mic where someone actually sits is certainly your choice, but doing so will result in less accurate results.

Just going by the displayed graphic and what was displayed by the GUI as it does say, primary listening position. And yes, despite the glaring disparities between graphic and instructions, I'm happy to tighten up my parameters.

cool.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:18 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
I'm simply repeating what the Audyssey co-founder (Chris K) has been saying on this forum for years.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 07-29-2012, 08:31 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I'm simply repeating what the Audyssey co-founder (Chris K) has been saying on this forum for years.

Thanks. I'm just going by the GUI and what the pdf shows. As I posted, I'm happy to tighten up my testing parameters as it's about getting a good reading, even if the graphics shown are misleading and not instep with measurement requirements.

At this link here, Chris, in detail, directly answers user questions.

"Hi Sonny, The exact distance is not critical. Somewhere between 2-3 ft (1 m) is what we recommend."

Even Chris responds that the distance is flexible and not critical as the stated distance is a recommendation opposed to a requirement . This meets the requirements which are shown on the set-up GUI and what is shown on the Audyssey supplied pdf graphic.

cool.gif

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 08-01-2012, 04:29 AM
Newbie
 
SidewinderX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've started to look at recievers for myself, and in my very casual browsing right now it seems like a refurb 2112CI might be some of the best bang for your buck out there. Are there any other recievers, new or refurb around this $350 price point that I should be looking at? I'm not looking at a particularly complex system initially, but it seems like going with the 2112 will do a good job of future proofing (and allow for expanding to a second zone)
SidewinderX is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 08-01-2012, 04:40 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
As mentioned in the first few posts of the Denon AVR-XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig, the 2112CI is the best bang for the buck of the XX12 models.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 08-02-2012, 12:19 PM
Newbie
 
SidewinderX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As mentioned in the first few posts of the Denon AVR-XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig, the 2112CI is the best bang for the buck of the XX12 models.

As a someone who isn't tied to a specific brand, if I'm looking at buying a reciever around $300-350, are there any other comparables I should be considering (and refurb is fine with me)?
SidewinderX is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 08-02-2012, 12:36 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 774 Post(s)
Liked: 1433
The Onkyo 709 also uses the same version of MultEQ XT; however, not sure you can get it that low.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off