11.2 question - among others.... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-29-2012, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I intend on getting the Denon 4520 in a few months when they become available. However my Pany 65-ST50 is on the way now. Unfortunately I'm a total nimrod when it comes to hooking this stuff up and this is my first audio/video upgrade in the over 15 years (or so - lol).

If I get a refurb Denon 1312 or something like that this week to hold me over, will I be able to hook it up as my external amp to get an additional 2 channels if I add the 4520 later? If yes, how do you connect the two? If not what would you suggest for an inexpensive external amp to get 11 channel surround? 12 X 15 X 8 room. Yeah, total over kill but again I expect this will be my last hurrah for an audio upgrade. My ears are older than I am and the sounds coming out of my 25 year old Toshiba tube are totally unrecognizable at this point.biggrin.gif

I'll take all counsel into consideration but I will need to order some kind of receiver in the next couple of days.

I got 3 PSB Image C 4s here for C, L and R speakers. Basically unused but what little I've listened to them through my old pioneer they seem bright but I figure with some break-in and Audyssey they can be tamed some. Bought and paid for none the less.

I also just ordered a Power Sound Audio XS15 sub. Leap of faith but I'll take my chances. It's also a couple of hundred bucks less than I was going to spend. Going with ceiling and wall speakers for all the rest. Probably something from Monoprice.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance............
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-29-2012, 10:19 PM
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The Denon 4520 will be the top-of-the-line receiver from Denon. Probably will list price around 3000$. Many here say that the primary expense in a system is your speakers to get the most bang for your buck. So, I would think if you are looking at the 4520, you should also be looking at replacing your front speakers with something far more up the line than the C4s. If those C4s are what you will keep, I would recommend something like the Denon 3313 If you really want to have an 11 channel receiver.
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post #3 of 24 Old 07-30-2012, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post

The Denon 4520 will be the top-of-the-line receiver from Denon. Probably will list price around 3000$. Many here say that the primary expense in a system is your speakers to get the most bang for your buck. So, I would think if you are looking at the 4520, you should also be looking at replacing your front speakers with something far more up the line than the C4s. If those C4s are what you will keep, I would recommend something like the Denon 3313 If you really want to have an 11 channel receiver.
I'm guessing you had a typo there, the 3313 is 7.2 not 11 channels.
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-30-2012, 03:57 AM
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@jjshukers -

Yes, you could use the 1312 (5.1) as an external amp for the 4520CI by connecting from a set of pre-outs on the 4520CI to a set of analog inputs on the 1312.

@Peterk -

MSRP of the 4520CI is $2500 and the 3313CI is a 7.2 AVR with no expansion capability beyond that.

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post #5 of 24 Old 07-30-2012, 04:50 AM
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I looked at the back panel of the 3313 and it has heights and wides speaker hookups so assumed it was 11 channel output with 7 amps. My bad! I have been searching for info on the 4520 but have seen nothing for official pricing yet or any real details.
Sorry.
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post #6 of 24 Old 07-30-2012, 05:44 AM
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The extra speaker posts on the 3313CI are for convenience only as it can only power 7 speakers at a time. The MSRP and some details on the 4520CI are available in the following thread ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1368799/when-do-the-2013-denons-come-out-any-new-features-we-should-expect/0_100

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post #7 of 24 Old 07-30-2012, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I knew you guys were going to say speakers first but I've had the PSB C4s here for a couple of years. Just unused but bought and paid for. I have the opportunity to get the 4520 at dealer cost when it comes out, so very hard to pass up as this seems to be the beast of choice for many here and that will be one peice that will probably remain in my system for the rest of my listening and watching career.wink.gif If I am totaly unhappy with the center c4 I could upgrade that speaker a little latter.

I just wasn't sure what connections I needed to connect say a 1312 or even a 1612 which is doable thru accessories4less at an appreciable discount. This of course is getting expensive in a hurry along with the Pany 65 and a Blu Ray Player and I guess 2 maybe 3 receivers, sub etc.

The XS15 was to swap out my JBL sub in the living room where I liston to music and the JBL would go into the bedroom where the new HT is going, but my old circa 94 top of the line PIO VSX 903 dosent have a sub out so more more shuffle is involved. The old domino theory. You remove one piece and now everything has to go!biggrin.gif

I broke it to my wife we had a 65" plasma on the way. NOW we are talking Domino Theory. That got scary. I told her I could move into the guest bedroom and if she didn't want it in there I could find a town home nearby. Still Standin' biggrin.gif
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm just going to keep this post going instead of starting a new one.

I got my Pany 65 ST50, a Denon 2112 and a DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray player. Everything looks and sounds utterly incredible. EXCEPT the blu-ray player.

When I play a blu-ray, the picture and sound will break up momentarily every few minutes and occasionally the screen will go blue and say there is no signal. I have tried 3 or 4 different blu-rays, 2 different HDMI cables and 3 different HDMI inputs and 2 new BDT 500 players. All the same. I must say that when I switched to the game 1 input last night (the 3rd input that I tried) the breakups decreased considerably but still there. More of a white flash tho.

It has to be the receiver, right? Is this a handshake issue that can be rectified somehow or is this a faulty receiver?

I gotta say tho, I am completely blown away by the sound coming from these speakers with this receiver tho. WOW. Double WOW on the picture too. But I am in audio bliss with the audio side of this. I have to say that anyone that says there is no difference in sound coming from receivers is living in denial. This is a substantial audio upgrade. And I'm still dialing it in.eek.gif

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

Thanks....................
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 07:56 AM
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why on earth are you attempting to go 11.2 in that size room?

STRONG suggestion... focus on the "best" 5.2 setup you can get... 7.2 max...

won't go into the rest of it, other than to say that "people aren't living in denial"...

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post #10 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, you could use the 1312 (5.1) as an external amp for the 4520CI by connecting from a set of pre-outs on the 4520CI to a set of analog inputs on the 1312.

I think this is a bad idea.
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 08:22 AM
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Care to elaborate? The 1312 can be used to power the FHL/FHR speakers to expand to 11.2 and generally these speakers don't require much power.

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Care to elaborate? The 1312 can be used to power the FHL/FHR speakers to expand to 11.2 and generally these speakers don't require much power.

It's going to be complex to set up. You'll have to run the pre-outs for FHL/FHR of a 4520 into a standard L/R input, connect speakers to the terminals, and "pick" a good starting volume. Then the Audyssey XT32 will have to figure out if you've given too much, or not enough gain via the 1312 master volume. You fiddle with it a few times to get it right, then you must remember to ALWAYS keep it at that volume. And make sure you are in Direct mode, etc.

In use, it will be a pain, too. You will have to keep the 1312 in another room, as the IR from the 4520 is going to trigger it to change volume, inputs etc. Or, you cover up the 1312 IR ports and just fool with it manually, every time you want to do 11.1. Again, a total pain.

Smarter money is to skip the 1312 and buy a basic 2-channel amp on the used-market that won't be such a mess to set up and use.
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:11 AM
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A very workable solution given once Audyssey setup is completed you're good to go and the 1312 is only being used as an external amp, nothing more.

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post #14 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I probably should have started a new thread. I was still just trying to think everything through in my original post. I ended up buying a refurbished Denon 2112 (Accessories4less) and wired for 7.1.

Got no issue with the sound or picture except when I play my blu-ray player. My problem with the blu-ray picture is that the pic and audio consistently break up momentarily. No problem with the picture from cable TV. But with the blu-ray, either the audio stops for a split second or the picture will flash or the screen will turn blue and read no connection (or something similar).

I have tried 3 or 4 different blu-rays, 2 different HDMI cables and 3 different HDMI inputs and 2 new BDT 500 players. All the same resulting split second audio breaks, and the connections are tight. I must say that when I switched the blu-ray HDMI cable to the game 1 input last night (the 3rd input that I tried) the picture and audio breakups decreased considerably but still there.

I am certainly rethinking the 11.2 and I am completely satiated with the 7.1 I installed. I hired a guy and helped him run the wires up the wall and through the attic. Brother that was no walk in the park (3 days of Houston heat!!) but all the wires are there for heights and/or wides should I ever need.

My problem is with the frequent picture flashes or split second audio breaks when the blu-ray is playing. I'm thinking a (handshake?) receiver issue but I'm new to all this technology so I'll defer to the pros. I've read all I could here for the last 3 years until my head blows up. Clean up brain - Repeat............wink.gif

Should I post in a different thread?

Thanks............
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:21 AM
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Yes, you would be better served posting in the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig.

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post #16 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks JD. I do follow you on the boards. I'll repost...........
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 10:27 AM
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If you are reconsidering upgrading to 11.2, and as the 2112CI is a full featured (Audyssey MultEQ XT) AVR, you may want to consider using it in another room with surround sound speakers and connecting the Zone 2 HDMI Out on the 4520CI to it in order to be able to also pass HDMI sources connected to the 4520CI.

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post #18 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshukers View Post

I knew you guys were going to say speakers first....

Just so you know, not ALL of us believe that you need expensive speakers to sound good. I personally reached my point of diminishing returns with
mains that cost $300 each and surrounds that were about $150 each. My subwoofers are another story.. 140db in-room, flat to 8hz.

I believe that proper EQ (That a high end Denon with XT32 will provide) and proper room setup and acoustic treatments are FAR MORE of
a worthwile investment than $5000 mahogany speakers with diamond encrusted tweeters.

If you like your speakers, stick with them, and get the stuff I listed above sorted out before trying new speakers.

Good luck!

My 11.2 setup: (The subwoofers are hidden under the floor, they wouldn't fit in the room!)

7634031574_bf6a01a0d7_b.jpg
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the inspirational message and picture. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about that. Now I just need to figure out how to dig up the foundation under my bedroom without my wife noticing.wink.gif

DIY sub I assume. Flat to 8? Really? eek.gif I'm feeling rather impedent right now................
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-17-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Just so you know, not ALL of us believe that you need expensive speakers to sound good. I personally reached my point of diminishing returns with
mains that cost $300 each and surrounds that were about $150 each. My subwoofers are another story.. 140db in-room, flat to 8hz.
I believe that proper EQ (That a high end Denon with XT32 will provide) and proper room setup and acoustic treatments are FAR MORE of
a worthwile investment than $5000 mahogany speakers with diamond encrusted tweeters.
If you like your speakers, stick with them, and get the stuff I listed above sorted out before trying new speakers.
Good luck!
My 11.2 setup: (The subwoofers are hidden under the floor, they wouldn't fit in the room!)
7634031574_bf6a01a0d7_b.jpg


NICE LOOKING ROOM!!!

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-22-2012, 09:45 AM
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NICE LOOKING ROOM!!!

Thanks! It is also a small room, 13x15x8 (about 1600cf) that disputes the idea of 11.2 being useless in a small room.

The only problem with a small room is a small sweet spot. Other than that, with proper acoustic treatments and EQ, a small room is nothing but a positive.
Much less power needed to achieve full reference levels... especially important with the subwoofers.
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-22-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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That is the exact size of my bedroom. I definitely want to add wides but can't do it with the 2112. I'm still thrilled with this modest system. I'm playing with Audyssey but I haven't had much time to enjoy anything. Tonight the wife is out so I will fire everything up big time!

Room treatments are out unless I can think of someway to upgrade the looks in the room. I'm not the only one that sleeps/hangs in that room if you know what I mean. wink.gif

What are your speakers?

Fedex just called. My Power Sound Audio SX15 is in. Yipee!

And I'm off............
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-22-2012, 07:41 PM
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Wow that is a nice looking room. Seeing how the front hight and the front wide speakers were placed gives me hope that I will be able to incorperate what I see in your room, into mine. My room is a bit smaller too but it is a dedicated room for HT. 13x20x8. My speakers will be smaller than what you have so placing them should be pretty easy for me. Thanks for the really great photo that has given me some ideas. I have DIY side room treatment, and will be working on cieling and maybe some back in the future. What I have done so far has made SQ jump up quite a bit. It didn't pass WAF but she does admit it sounds better. As to the WAF I remind her of our agreement. She has final say for everything downstairs or in the rest of the house. I retain final say for everything in the theater room. It has worked out pretty well and I put it out there for your consideration.

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Enjoying films in my home theater room more than I enjoy them at the local cinema. Better bass, better surrounds, better picture. Cheaper popcorn.
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-23-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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"It didn't pass WAF but she does admit it sounds better. As to the WAF I remind her of our agreement. She has final say for everything downstairs or in the rest of the house. I retain final say for everything in the theater room. It has worked out pretty well and I put it out there for your consideration."


My negotiating skills are suspect rolleyes.gif
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