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OUTLAW 975

75K views 534 replies 113 participants last post by  jwb474 
#1 ·
This will be the model name for the new,new,new really going to happen

Outlaw pre-pro.All kidding aside anybody have and specifics on this?
 
#377 ·
Yes I have. There's alot of bantering about 2 channel audio quality and analogue inputs. That's not my concern. I'm looking to hear opinions from people who use there pre/pro for the same thing as me. I use it for HT, and watching ball games. I like Thunderous audio with impressive sounds coming from the surround channels. I want to hear from people who use the 975 for what I intend to. Especially those who are uprgading from a 990.
 
#378 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23377768


Yes I have. There's alot of bantering about 2 channel audio quality and analogue inputs. That's not my concern. I'm looking to hear opinions from people who use there pre/pro for the same thing as me. I use it for HT, and watching ball games. I like Thunderous audio with impressive sounds coming from the surround channels. I want to hear from people who use the 975 for what I intend to. Especially those who are uprgading from a 990.

If all you are missing is HD audio, a bluray player with 7.1 outs is all you need.


Then you can get the shock and awe of the latest bluray sound tracks with what you have now.


Save yourself from the HDMI nightmare.
 
#380 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23378628


I was close to buying an oppo 103 and doing just that. Now I'm thinking that for the same money, the outlaw could do more for the same amount of money, than the oppo.

It can't stream media or play any format like the OPPO.


I would get the oppo. Your 990 is a champ sound wise.
 
#381 ·
I can stream media from my Tivo. I can add a roku and add more options to choose from with a roku. Not a huge deal. I'm more concerned with the OSD. Thats something I really missed in the 990. It sounds like the oppo doesn't have much of an OSD. Anyone know how the OSD is on he emotiva 200?


U think my 990 would sound better for movies and TV than a Outlaw 975 or an emotiva 200?
 
#382 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23379625


I'm more concerned with the OSD. Thats something I really missed in the 990. It sounds like the oppo doesn't have much of an OSD. Anyone know how the OSD is on he emotiva 200?
I find the Oppo OSD quite adequate for its internal settings. I do not like it for Pandora, as all the text is too small for no reason. "Ink" is free in video!


The UMC-200 OSD is likewise adequate. It's a series of tables accessed by a row of tabs. The navigation is sometimes a little non-linear, but what I like is that you can exit the menu, see if you like the change, and if not, re-enter the menu tree exactly where you left off. I have not seen that before.

Quote:
U think my 990 would sound better for movies and TV than a Outlaw 975 or an emotiva 200?
Decoding the m/c analog in the Oppo will sound basically the same as any other of these options. Where the biggest opportunity for a sound difference comes in is the UMC-200 as it has EQ facilities, either automatic or manual.
 
#383 ·
>>>U think my 990 would sound better for movies and TV than a Outlaw 975 or an emotiva 200?


Sound quality of movie playback takes much larger differences to be audible than sound quality differences for stereo music. I'm not sure whether it's because most of us grew up listening to stereo and have more experience with it or whether the complexity the additional center and surround channels add simply gives our brains much more work to do (hearing sound from all around rather than just from 2 front speakers) that it makes small differences in audio quality disappear. My experience is that if I hear a fairly significant difference in stereo music playback (digital source, just for consistency here), when it comes to movie sound, the difference will be just BARELY noticeable. Once when I thought I couldn't hear any difference between two versions of a scene where there was a gunfight in the Guggenheim museum in NYC, someone who had spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH THAT SCENE pointed out that you could hear a SLIGHT difference in the quality of the echo in the huge space after a gunshot. And I mean it was a SLIGHT difference. Nothing I'd ever sweat over.


So lets say we have a 100 point scale for sound quality and in the case described above, the "better" processor was evaluated as having a sound quality of 70 for movies and 70 for stereo music. The "worse" processor would likely be evaluated as 69 for movie sound and 60 for stereo music (or something like that). If the stereo music playback "score" is inconsequential for any reason (maybe you already have a stereo preamp you like, for example), and there's a big differential in price between the "worse" and "better" processors, the lower-cost product might be the obvious choice... IF the feature set includes what you need/want.


The situation I describe here is universal. I've NEVER heard products with significant sonic differences when playing stereo music sound very different at all when playing movies. I'm pretty sure all the extra spatial information changes how we hear/listen whether we like it or not. Perhaps the surround environment produces a more lifelike listening experience and that shuts off the ultra-discriminator circuit that is in place when we are listening to just 2 speakers. Having video present with sound is a HUGE factor here also... that takes a lot of "brain time" to keep up with also. So you have more channels of sound AND video distracting you from differences that weren't necessarily huge (but still audible) so those differences just melt away. But I find even removing the video and listening to multi-channel music with no video still produces mostly the same effect of causing audible differences to melt away to relative insignificance unless they are quite large differences.
 
#384 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23379826


>>>U think my 990 would sound better for movies and TV than a Outlaw 975 or an emotiva 200?


Sound quality of movie playback takes much larger differences to be audible than sound quality differences for stereo music. I'm not sure whether it's because most of us grew up listening to stereo and have more experience with it or whether the complexity the additional center and surround channels add simply gives our brains much more work to do (hearing sound from all around rather than just from 2 front speakers) that it makes small differences in audio quality disappear. My experience is that if I hear a fairly significant difference in stereo music playback (digital source, just for consistency here), when it comes to movie sound, the difference will be just BARELY noticeable. Once when I thought I couldn't hear any difference between two versions of a scene where there was a gunfight in the Guggenheim museum in NYC, someone who had spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH THAT SCENE pointed out that you could hear a SLIGHT difference in the quality of the echo in the huge space after a gunshot. And I mean it was a SLIGHT difference. Nothing I'd ever sweat over.


So lets say we have a 100 point scale for sound quality and in the case described above, the "better" processor was evaluated as having a sound quality of 70 for movies and 70 for stereo music. The "worse" processor would likely be evaluated as 69 for movie sound and 60 for stereo music (or something like that). If the stereo music playback "score" is inconsequential for any reason (maybe you already have a stereo preamp you like, for example), and there's a big differential in price between the "worse" and "better" processors, the lower-cost product might be the obvious choice... IF the feature set includes what you need/want.


The situation I describe here is universal. I've NEVER heard products with significant sonic differences when playing stereo music sound very different at all when playing movies. I'm pretty sure all the extra spatial information changes how we hear/listen whether we like it or not. Perhaps the surround environment produces a more lifelike listening experience and that shuts off the ultra-discriminator circuit that is in place when we are listening to just 2 speakers. Having video present with sound is a HUGE factor here also... that takes a lot of "brain time" to keep up with also. So you have more channels of sound AND video distracting you from differences that weren't necessarily huge (but still audible) so those differences just melt away. But I find even removing the video and listening to multi-channel music with no video still produces mostly the same effect of causing audible differences to melt away to relative insignificance unless they are quite large differences.

+1 excellent post.
 
#385 ·
Thanks for that post. I do agree with you. When I was more into two channel audio, I could get so into the difference in sound between one set of speakers compared to another. I have an M&K THX 150 system and I love it! However being as though I use it for 7.1 movies and TV, its more about the surround effects and the thunderous sound of my monster MX350 sub.


The two Pretty/Pros are essentially around the same price. I have to choose between the Emotiva which has an OSD and room correction, or the outlaw that I'm sentimentally attached to after my 990. Oh boy, what to do!
 
#389 ·
^^ I think the problem is that Mr. Meno wants to see the volume adjustments on the screen, as we do with TVs. AFAIK, the 975 does not offer that display.
 
#390 ·
Yes, the 975 does display volume, mute, etc. on-screen when using a display connected via HDMI. When you have an on-screen display of the setup menu, you always have on-screen displays for volume, mute, etc., unless you are Sherwood who somehow managed to produce their first Trinnov-equippd room correction AVR without the onscreen displays everybody expected. The only products (besides that Sherwood AVR of a few years ago) that do not have on-screen displays are products that only offer HDMI switching and you have to do everything via the front panel display. There aren't many of those... Cary has a $4000 audio-only processor with HDMI switching and no video capabilities at all (and no other types of video inputs). But they sell a companion video processor that has all the bells and whistles and provides onscreen displays for audio information and video information when you use their 2 products together.. But if the product accepts analog video and digitizes that and converts it to HDMI and has an on-screen setup menu, and can upconvert or downconvert resolution as needed... those products have a video processor on-board and 99.9% of the time, that means functional on-screen displays for volume, mute, surround modes, setup menu, Audyssey or other room correction or auto-setup software, etc.
 
#391 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23391549


Yes, the 975 does display volume, mute, etc. on-screen when using a display connected via HDMI. When you have an on-screen display of the setup menu, you always have on-screen displays for volume, mute, etc., unless you are Sherwood who somehow managed to produce their first Trinnov-equippd room correction AVR without the onscreen displays everybody expected. The only products (besides that Sherwood AVR of a few years ago) that do not have on-screen displays are products that only offer HDMI switching and you have to do everything via the front panel display. There aren't many of those... Cary has a $4000 audio-only processor with HDMI switching and no video capabilities at all (and no other types of video inputs). But they sell a companion video processor that has all the bells and whistles and provides onscreen displays for audio information and video information when you use their 2 products together.. But if the product accepts analog video and digitizes that and converts it to HDMI and has an on-screen setup menu, and can upconvert or downconvert resolution as needed... those products have a video processor on-board and 99.9% of the time, that means functional on-screen displays for volume, mute, surround modes, setup menu, Audyssey or other room correction or auto-setup software, etc.

Are You 100% positive about that? I kinda figured it was like my 990 which displays an osd only with an s-video or composite. Right now to make adjustments on my outlaw, i have to use a 7 inch mini TV and hook it up to the outlaw. Not very 21st century.
 
#392 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23383454


I read that the volume, etc, cannot be displayed on the screen using HDMI. Is that false?
No, it is not false. Volume cannot be seen on any video display. All the setup menus can be seen on a display connected to the HDMI output.
 
#393 ·
Outlaw does say (on the phone) that the only on-screen display is the setup menu. You do not get volume, mute, surround mode, etc. when you change those settings with the remote... you only see that on the front panel display. They said that was chosen because customer's requested it to be that way. My bad... I spent the first weeks with the 975 connected conventionally (sources connected to 975) and the last month with it connected as an audio processor only (only 1 input from an outboard video processor and no video output being used). I could have SWORN I was seeing displays for volume, mute, etc, but I have equipment coming and going all the time and I may have been remembering the display from a Cambridge AVR rather than the 975... both were here at the same time. Sorry for any confusion. The 975 has been gone for about 10 days so there was no way to go back and check.
 
#394 ·
Hello All: This 975 unit is sweet and hearing things I never knew were even there; makes my speakers explode However, looking for some help. Trying to program the remote with Oppo 103 and Pioneer 151 codes. Please let me know since I've tried a few times by the manual and can't seem to get them working.


Thank you.
 
#395 ·
You can't always make all codes work in all "universal" remotes. Sometimes you can't get ANY codes for some products to work, other times you might get some codes to work and others won't. If you have that problem and really want a single-remote solution, you'll probably have to get a flexible learning remote... those that program over an internet connection via a USB connection may not work for you either. You may need one you program by aiming the 2 remotes at each other, pressing a "Learn" button on the universal one, then the button you want the code saved to, then press the corresponding button on the remote from the original component. But even some learning remotes may be incapable of learning some IR signals, doesn't happen too often any more, but it's still possible. You'll be better off with a newer model rather than one that's 4 or 5 years old when learning problems/limitations were more frequent.
 
#397 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/360#post_23231387


I think he was referring to the fact that analog signals are being digitally converted also, not that it can't take a digital source and output good analog. If you have say a reference CD player, you can't really be listening to it's analog performance anymore because if you feed the analog out of the player, the 975 will re-digitize it again. Kind of defeats the point, don't you think?

Did Mr. Vaughn's review of the 975 not disclose the fact that the 975 will re-digitize an analog signal fed into it? I don't think this is a trivial point not to make...or am I missing something here?
 
#398 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N2AUDIO  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/390#post_23586856


Did Mr. Vaughn's review of the 975 not disclose the fact that the 975 will re-digitize an analog signal fed into it? I don't think this is a trivial point not to make...or am I missing something here?

I believe it did but you cn go read it.

This information is not hidden.


- Rich
 
#399 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N2AUDIO  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/390#post_23586856


Did Mr. Vaughn's review of the 975 not disclose the fact that the 975 will re-digitize an analog signal fed into it? I don't think this is a trivial point not to make...or am I missing something here?

I did not mention it in my review and frankly, I didn't know that it did this. In the end, the unit sounded awesome for the money on both analog and digital signals. I'm not someone who gets wrapped up in specs.
 
#400 ·
Outlaw's previous processor also redigitized.

The Emotiva UMC-200 has a true analog path for its multichannel analog inputs.


- Rich
 
#401 ·
I am considering a 975. Currently I use three 2200 monoblocks to power my front speakers (Polk LSi15's and matching center - 4 ohm speakers) and an Onkyo 807 powers my four surround speakers. Two of the surrounds are also 4 ohm LSi's.


I really don't want another 4 2200's so I am considering to 7075 for the rears. Thoughts on this setup?
 
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