OUTLAW 975 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 508 Old 05-15-2014, 11:28 AM
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I ordered the 975/7125 combo. I hope it lives up to it reputation!
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post #452 of 508 Old 05-15-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tidan View Post

I ordered the 975/7125 combo. I hope it lives up to it reputation!

Congrats. I look forward to hear back on how it sounds. I'm thinking of swapping my AVR for a similar combo.
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post #453 of 508 Old 05-15-2014, 11:47 PM
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I have no experience with the 975, but the 7125 is a giant killer for the price!

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post #454 of 508 Old 05-15-2014, 11:54 PM
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Well it seems that there might be something in the works for it's successor.
Outlaw Naancy said the following, hope she could give some more info, when and what would be the most important.

"OK. We are currently working a few new products, one of them is a processor. Sorry, it is too early to give you more info regarding the timing. Stay Tuned!"

And that is great news!  The way things are going, they could have it released before Emotiva is shipping the XMC in numbers, LOL.

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post #455 of 508 Old 05-18-2014, 02:01 AM
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I have a 975, and while the manual states that there are four crossover points that can be set, in reality there are only two. And, in order for it to work, your speakers need to be set to small.

When you set your speakers to large, it disables the crossovers entirely, and nothing goes to the sub from a two channel source. (Even with subwoofer selected as "yes".) The .1 LFE track still works though.

When you set your speakers to small, the only crossover adjustments that change anything, is to the two front channels, and the center channel.
Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING to the surround, or surround back channels.
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post #456 of 508 Old 05-18-2014, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

I have a 975, and while the manual states that there are four crossover points that can be set, in reality there are only two. And, in order for it to work, your speakers need to be set to small.
Unless the speaker is set to small, there can be no crossover filter applied. Not sure what you mean by "crossover points." The 975 has the option to use independent crossover frequencies in up to 4 speaker groups: fronts, center, surrounds, rears (or heights).
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When you set your speakers to large, it disables the crossovers entirely, and nothing goes to the sub from a two channel source. (Even with subwoofer selected as "yes".) The .1 LFE track still works though.
Correct. This is exactly how things are supposed to work. No?
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When you set your speakers to small, the only crossover adjustments that change anything, is to the two front channels, and the center channel. Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING to the surround, or surround back channels.
Hmm. They all work fine on my unit. Might want to check the settings again.

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AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #457 of 508 Old 05-18-2014, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

.......Hmm. They all work fine on my unit. Might want to check the settings again.
Changing the crossover settings for the front L/R and center changes the crossover from the front L/R and center to the sub.

Changing the crossover settings for the surround and surround backs does nothing. It's a non-functioning feature.
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post #458 of 508 Old 05-18-2014, 11:20 AM
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Can you be more specific? Are you saying the menu for the surrounds reflects the crossover settings change but the sound does not? Or are you saying the menus for the surrounds cannot be changed at all?

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #459 of 508 Old 05-18-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Can you be more specific? Are you saying the menu for the surrounds reflects the crossover settings change but the sound does not? Or are you saying the menus for the surrounds cannot be changed at all?
The OSD menu shows that they were changed. But it doesn't actually change the sound.
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post #460 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

The OSD menu shows that they were changed. But it doesn't actually change the sound.
I tested the unit and checked the outputs. They behave correctly. When the surrounds are set small, the bass is cut off from the surround outputs and the subwoofer carries it.

I checked L/R, Sub, and Ls/Rs outputs in 5.1 and 7.1 speaker mode. I used 80 and 140 Hz crossovers (140 is easier to hear the effect). I did not check the C and Rear outputs.

If you feel the problem persists, please describe:
1) The speaker configuration (channels, sizes, crossovers)
2) The test source (what disc, what track)
3) Your methodology (play this, listen for that)
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Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #461 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 10:44 AM
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(1.) 7.1 speaker configuration, all set to small, with subwoofer set to yes.

(2.) Any test source. DVE HD basics 15hz to 300hz frequency sweeps ("buzz and rattle" tests) makes it very obvious. Playing a two channel source, in 7-channel-stereo also makes it very obvious.

(3.) No matter where (between 40hz and 200hz) the crossovers are set for the surround, and the surround backs, it makes no difference to the signal being sent to those channels. However, it does make an obvious difference with the front three channels.

The only way that I can send frequencies between 50hz and ~80hz to the surround channels, is to set all of the speakers to large.
And that obviously also disables the crossovers to all channels, and disables the subwoofer.
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post #462 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

(1.) 7.1 speaker configuration, all set to small, with subwoofer set to yes.
Good.
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(2.) Any test source. DVE HD basics 15hz to 300hz frequency sweeps ("buzz and rattle" tests) makes it very obvious. Playing a two channel source, in 7-channel-stereo also makes it very obvious.

(3.) No matter where (between 40hz and 200hz) the crossovers are set for the surround, and the surround backs, it makes no difference to the signal being sent to those channels.
However, it does make an obvious difference with the front three channels.

The only way that I can send frequencies between 50hz and 80hz to the surround channels, is to set all of the speakers to large. And that obviously also disables the crossovers to all channels.
I tried the All Stereo test. While it is not possible to determine which channel is sending its bass to the subwoofer output (since all are active at the same time), it is possible to hear each output's bass change between Small/Large. And that, too, is working on my unit.

Could you check which Firmware it is running? With unit on, press INPUT and MUTE at the same time on the 975 front panel. It will display the version.

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AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #463 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 11:32 AM
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post #464 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

..... it is possible to hear each output's bass change between Small/Large. And that, too, is working on my unit....
I didn't say that going from small to large doesn't change anything.

I said that changing the crossover settings for the surround and surround backs doesn't change anything.
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post #465 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 11:53 AM
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By this "The only way that I can send frequencies between 50hz and 80hz to the surround channels" do you mean you only get sound below 50hz and above 80hz, like a bandpass filter? Are your surrounds capable of full range? The speakers crossover may have a part in this. Is the 975's crossover frequency a roll off or a complete drop off? Just my 2 cents.
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post #466 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gregcss View Post

By this "The only way that I can send frequencies between 50hz and 80hz to the surround channels" do you mean you only get sound below 50hz and above 80hz, like a bandpass filter? Are your surrounds capable of full range? The speakers crossover may have a part in this. Is the 975's crossover frequency a roll off or a complete drop off? Just my 2 cents.
All of my speakers have a "real" frequency response range of ~50hz to 20khz, and I like to crossover to the sub at about 60hz.
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post #467 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

I didn't say that going from small to large doesn't change anything.

I said that changing the crossover settings for the surround and surround backs doesn't change anything.
Thus far, I have not been able to corroborate any of your anecdotal claims. If you feel there are problems, the burden is on you to show some compelling evidence. Why not run REW through the unit and make some measurements of the different crossovers settings to show us what is broken?

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AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #468 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 12:35 PM
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At this point why not call Outlaw for assistance?
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post #469 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

....Why not run REW through the unit and make some measurements of the different crossovers settings to show us what is broken?
Because, I don't believe that anything is "broken". I believe that the unit is working as it was designed to work. And running a bunch of diagnostic software sounds like a whole lot of work for something that in the end won't make a bit of difference to me.

I bought the unit at least partly because I'm tired of dealing with complicated and unreliable technological "advancements".
I don't find that kind of thing to be fun.

If you don't want to believe my "anecdotal claims", then don't. I don't care.
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post #470 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

Because, I don't believe that anything is "broken". I believe that the unit is working as it was designed to work.
If you think the unit is not "broken," why are you posting comments claiming it is working incorrectly? Your O/P.

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post #471 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 01:01 PM
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I posted a comment, reporting how the 975 works in regards to it's crossover settings.
I did not post a comment saying that it is broken or working incorrectly.

I don't believe that my unit is broken. I believe that it is functioning exactly as it was designed to function.
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post #472 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING to the surround, or surround back channels.
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I believe that it is functioning exactly as it was designed to function.
You believe it was designed so that changing the crossover settings does nothing to the surround or surround-back channels?

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post #473 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 01:47 PM
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You believe it was designed so that changing the crossover settings does nothing to the surround or surround-back channels?
I believe that selecting the surround channels to small only allows frequencies above ~120hz to reach those channels. Since the adjustable crossover range is 40hz to 200hz, changing the crossover settings produces no noticeable effect in the surround and surround back channels.

The only way to get mid-range bass frequencies out of the surround and surround back channels, is to select them as large.

It is the front/center channel crossovers that redirect bass frequencies below the crossover setting to the sub. So, even when selected as small, they have to be able to receive mid-range bass frequencies; even when set to small.
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post #474 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

I believe that selecting the surround channels to small only allows frequencies above ~120hz to reach those channels.
Do you believe that because you measured it (even if it was with just a SPL meter and test tones off a set-up disc) or do you believe it for some other reason?

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post #475 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Do you believe that because you measured it (even if it was with just a SPL meter and test tones off a set-up disc) or do you believe it for some other reason?
It is obvious to all of my available senses except taste and smell, that the surround channels do not put out mid-range bass frequencies nor respond to the changes made to the crossover settings.

It is obvious to all of my available senses except taste and smell, that the front left/right, and center channels absolutely do put out mid-range bass frequencies and also respond to any changes made to the crossover settings.

I don't need to measure anything to tell that something changed, or didn't change.
And besides, if it's such an insignificant change that my ears can't tell the difference, then there isn't really a difference that matters is there?
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post #476 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ch47d View Post

I don't need to measure anything to tell that something changed, or didn't change.
OK, so no measurements at all for confirmation.
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And besides, if it's such an insignificant change that my ears can't tell the difference, then there isn't really a difference that matters is there?
It matters because of what you claimed in your original post: "Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING to the surround, or surround back channels."

If you're now revising that claim from something objective ("Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING") to something completely subjective ("my ears can't tell the difference"), then it no longer matters.

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post #477 of 508 Old 05-19-2014, 02:57 PM
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.....If you're now revising that claim from something objective ("Changing the crossover settings does NOTHING") to something completely subjective ("my ears can't tell the difference"), then it no longer matters.
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post #478 of 508 Old 05-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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post #479 of 508 Old 06-05-2014, 02:18 PM
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Hello I could use your advice. I am currently using an Yamaha 771 AVR with preout to two Cambridge Azure 840 amps for my fronts en centerspeaker (Tannoy Revolution Signature DC4 LCR).

I am aiming to have best dialogs on my center. Would the 975 be a nice preamp for my situation?

Considering I have to import the 975 to Europe shipping+taxes will be added so I am not sure I should get (for example) an Marantz 7701 or Onkyo PR-SC5508 for a couple hunders of euro's more.

or is a upgrade minimal considering I already have the Yamaha?
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post #480 of 508 Old 06-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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Hello I could use your advice. I am currently using an Yamaha 771 AVR with preout to two Cambridge Azure 840 amps for my fronts en centerspeaker (Tannoy Revolution Signature DC4 LCR).

I am aiming to have best dialogs on my center. Would the 975 be a nice preamp for my situation?

Considering I have to import the 975 to Europe shipping+taxes will be added so I am not sure I should get (for example) an Marantz 7701 or Onkyo PR-SC5508 for a couple hunders of euro's more.

or is a upgrade minimal considering I already have the Yamaha?

You can read my review of the outlaw compared to my old Yamaha Z1 and a new rx-a2030 a couple posts above. The outlaw unit produces great sound and is very simple and doesn't have all the bells and whistles most major brand recievers have - 90% of which I don't use anyways. However, it does have a bit older input switching system and I found the front panel a bit difficult to read from a distance.
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