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OUTLAW 975

75K views 534 replies 113 participants last post by  jwb474 
#1 ·
This will be the model name for the new,new,new really going to happen

Outlaw pre-pro.All kidding aside anybody have and specifics on this?
 
#429 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlwainwright  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24013773


Another thing that has not been talked about enough is the sound quality of the units. I find that the mid-line receivers from the major players (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, etc.) are all about bells and whistles and not ultimate sound quality. IMHO, the Emotiva UMC preprocessors (UMC-1 and UMC-200) have decidedly better sound quality than what is found in competing receivers.-

"decidedly better sound quality"? Based on what? The UMC-1 didn't get basic signal routing right, the UMC-200 struggles as well ( click here ). They don't sound any different or better than a Onkyo 3008, 818 or Denon 2312 for example. These days sound quality is in the speaker/room interface not the electronics.
 
#430 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlwainwright  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24013773


Another thing that has not been talked about enough is the sound quality of the units. I find that the mid-line receivers from the major players (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, etc.) are all about bells and whistles and not ultimate sound quality. IMHO, the Emotiva UMC preprocessors (UMC-1 and UMC-200) have decidedly better sound quality than what is found in competing receivers.


So pick your poison, sound quality or features. Me? I opt for sound quality...


-RW-

I would have to disagree with you that Emotiva prepros "have decidedly better sound quality" than AVRs from Denon or Onkyo. I had the UMC-1 and the SQ didn't have "decidedly better" SQ over the Onkyo prepro I had at that time. I returned the UMC-1 fairly quickly due to the issues it had and that the SQ wasn't up to all the hype. I'm enjoying the 4311 very much which gives me plenty of features, issue free operation and great SQ. So I picked my "poison" and I selected SQ and features
.


Bill
 
#431 ·
Good on ya, Bill! I have found the sound quality of the UMC-1 to be pretty darn good. However, I must admit that the Denon 4311 is a very good receiver with a very good preamp section. My UMC has not given me much trouble since I updated to the .19 firmware. Prior to that it did have some serious issues and I was considering binning it. I'm glad I hung in there as my system sounds pretty good to me now and doesn't exhibit any show-stopper issues.


I was considering getting the XMC-1, if they'll *ever* release it. But the fact that the jacked the price up from $1495 to $1995 did not sit well with me. EMo touted that damn thing for *years* at the $1495 price, and when they finally seem to get ready for release, they jack the price 33%. That is *almost* a bait and switch, IMHO. No matter, the UMC-1 is doing the job I need it to and I'll hang onto it for a few more years...


-RW-
 
#432 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlwainwright  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24013773



Another thing that has not been talked about enough is the sound quality of the units. I find that the mid-line receivers from the major players (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, etc.) are all about bells and whistles and not ultimate sound quality. IMHO, the Emotiva UMC preprocessors (UMC-1 and UMC-200) have decidedly better sound quality than what is found in competing receivers.


-RW-
This is a joke, right??
 
#433 ·
I picked up a 7125 and am considering the 975, especially with their Holiday sale. I can handle all the audio calibration part/measurements, but need one thing answered. I have a 3.1 system, and I cannot tell by the manual if I can choose the 5.1 setup, set the left and right rears to "none", and it will downmix 5.1 and 7.1 into 3.1.


I'll just have a Oppo 103D running HDMI audio and video in the 975, then analogs out to the amp and hdmi out to the plasma.


Thanks.
 
#434 ·
I am planning to use a QSC DSP922 equalizer on all channels, so I really don't need Audyssey. What I really need is an excellent audio decoder and an HDMI switcher. While I wish the 975 had more HDMI inputs, it appears to me that otherwise it fits my needs perfectly -- assuming that the audio quality and decoding is top notch. Thoughts, anyone?
 
#435 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24149517


I am planning to use a QSC DSP922 equalizer on all channels, so I really don't need Audyssey. What I really need is an excellent audio decoder and an HDMI switcher. While I wish the 975 had more HDMI inputs, it appears to me that otherwise it fits my needs perfectly -- assuming that the audio quality and decoding is top notch. Thoughts, anyone?
The decoding is based on standard Cirrus DSPs, so it is essentially the same as in other units. The DACs and volume controls sound very good, so I think it would be worth giving it a shot.
 
#437 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24094250


I picked up a 7125 and am considering the 975, especially with their Holiday sale. I can handle all the audio calibration part/measurements, but need one thing answered. I have a 3.1 system, and I cannot tell by the manual if I can choose the 5.1 setup, set the left and right rears to "none", and it will downmix 5.1 and 7.1 into 3.1.


I'll just have a Oppo 103D running HDMI audio and video in the 975, then analogs out to the amp and hdmi out to the plasma.


Thanks.
yes it does :)
 
#438 ·
I can say the following from experience. I owned the UMC-200 for about a year and 3 months. There were alot of problems with it. First off the video switching is terrible. I can't tell you how many time watching TV the sound would drop and come back because of the source audio format changing. Very annoying. Software updates are a complete nightmare. My unit has gone back for repair as now it does not turn on and then all of a sudden after several turn ons it does turn on to a software bootloop. Called Emotive and they admitted to faulty capacitors and power packs on the unit. When you try to mention this on the Emotiva boards you get shut down pretty quickly.


I now have the Outlaw 975 in my system. This is an honest no BS no sour grapes assessment. The video switching is supurb as well as the audio. First thing I noticed that the video and audio lock watching TV were instant and never a drop in audio. Flawless switching. I have a nice collection of DVD-A and SACD's. These sound incredible. Cleaner better center channel than the UMC-200. The Bass also is perfectly balanced.


The UMC-200 does have more in terms of equalizers and the EMO room adjusting software that was not really that great to begin with. The 975 has less features but what it does have is better than the UMC-200 period.



CC
 
#439 ·
few questions for the experts:



1 - On the UMC unit it would display what bit rate the audio feed was playing in. This is important as certain DVD-A have 48/96 or even 192 capabilities. How do I get a display of the bit rate to make sure I am getting the highest available?


2 - I have an Oppo 103 - What do you set the Audio section at?

PCM LCPM ? What about the SACD setting?


3 - On the UMC I noticed while watching TV the audio will switch depending on what channel I was watching. Some programs were DD surround, some were 2 channel stereo etc.... I noticed on the Outlaw no matter what channel the display ALWAYS decodes as DD 3f/2b (I have 5.1 system) Why is that?


I have HDMI connection between Oppo and the 975, my cable box is also connected with HDMI.


Please advise settings etc I can change to get the desired results.


CC
 
#441 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc999  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24346643


1 - On the UMC unit it would display what bit rate the audio feed was playing in. This is important as certain DVD-A have 48/96 or even 192 capabilities. How do I get a display of the bit rate to make sure I am getting the highest available?
That is actually the sample rate. Anyway, your Oppo will tell you what it is outputting if you touch the "Display" button. The 975 does not report sample rates.

Quote:
2 - I have an Oppo 103 - What do you set the Audio section at?

PCM LCPM ? What about the SACD setting?
It does not matter if you set it to SACD, as the HDMI handshake will determine that the 975 only wants PCM, so the Oppo will only deliver PCM. But I set mine to PCM anyway.

Quote:
3 - On the UMC I noticed while watching TV the audio will switch depending on what channel I was watching. Some programs were DD surround, some were 2 channel stereo etc.... I noticed on the Outlaw no matter what channel the display ALWAYS decodes as DD 3f/2b (I have 5.1 system) Why is that?
When you are using a surround mode, the 975 display is reporting the surround mode. When no surround mode is selected, it displays the format of the source. So if you have PLII enabled for stereo sources, and the input signal changes from stereo to 5.1, the display will read 5.1 all the time.
 
#442 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc999  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24349745


He should also fess up to the bad capacitors and power packs in the earlier UMC-200 units. Goto their forums

tons of people complaining (including me) . They refuse to recognize it publicly but when you call for

an RMA they know immediately what the problem is.

So you did get taken care of?

By announcing it "publicly" all you get is an influx of calls of "worried" customers who may not even have an issue to begin with.

Now if you DO have a problem and they DON'T take care of it, that is a big deal.

If you have an early unit and it is working fine, whats the issue again?
 
#443 ·
Well it seems that there might be something in the works for it's successor.

Outlaw Naancy said the following, hope she could give some more info, when and what would be the most important.

"OK. We are currently working a few new products, one of them is a processor. Sorry, it is too early to give you more info regarding the timing. Stay Tuned!"
 
#444 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumik  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24476546


Well it seems that there might be something in the works for it's successor.

Outlaw Naancy said the following, hope she could give some more info, when and what would be the most important.

"OK. We are currently working a few new products, one of them is a processor. Sorry, it is too early to give you more info regarding the timing. Stay Tuned!"

Cool. I'm toying with the idea of selling my anthem mrx 300 (avr) and going with outlaw pre/pro and amp or cambridge audio azur 651R (avr).
 
#445 ·
Let me just say that I was in the boat of choosing between the 975 and UMC-200.


I wanted the unit as least complex as possible.

Didn't want a bunch of sound fields I never use.

Didn't need legacy video.

Did want some sort of room correction.

Only needed 2 HDMI.



Outlaw was $100 cheaper, but UMC-200 had PEQ.


Ultimately, I purchased the UMC-200 because they sold it on AMAZON. I had a tax return coming in which I received 10% bonus GC amount if received through Amazon.

I was going to buy the UPA-500 anyway. Saved $100, which made the price similar to getting the Outlaw.


I am very happy with my purchase (so far). This is all after dealing with Onkyo/HDMI/power transistor/cap issues, which was the reason I wanted my gear broken out into separates.

I do wish someone would put out a $200-300 pre/pro, as this is likely the piece I change out every 5 years.


In short, no issues whatsoever with my UMC-200 (knock on wood). Annoyances, yes, but most all that is already flushed out in the main UMC-200 threads.


Anyhow, I am right now testing the crap out of the UMC-200 to see if there are any issues that would make me want to return before the 30 day period.

I do appreciate all the people in this forum that test these units early on. I can imagine the initial struggle.


I am happy to start learning REW.


I don't think you can go wrong with either of these units.
 
#446 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo512  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24672823



In short, no issues whatsoever with my UMC-200 (knock on wood). Annoyances, yes, but most all that is already flushed out in the main UMC-200 threads.


Anyhow, I am right now testing the crap out of the UMC-200 to see if there are any issues that would make me want to return before the 30 day period.

This alone was enough to get me to buy the Outlaw over the Emotiva when I was looking a couple months back. Horror stories on the forums definitly scared me away.
 
#447 ·
I am considering replacing my Yamaha RX-Z1 with possibly the 975 or umc-200. I don't want to drop 3 grand again on a reciever or system that is obsolete in a couple years.

Would going to the 975/7125 combo be a very noticeable step down in sound quality from the Z1?


I tried a Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH and found it quite a step down in SQ and detail from the Z1. So much so that I don't even enjoy listening to music on it.


Has anyone made a comparison between a 3000.00 reciever such as the Z1 and the 975 for sound quality?
 
#448 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidan  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24692541


I am considering replacing my Yamaha RX-Z1 with possibly the 975 or umc-200. I don't want to drop 3 grand again on a reciever or system that is obsolete in a couple years.

Would going to the 975/7125 combo be a very noticeable step down in sound quality from the Z1?
You are asking a question that demands a highly subjective reply.


As far as the first statement is concerned, the amp section of a receiver doesn't ever become obsolete.

The processing and decoding section is what "expires".


So, it seems to make sense to separate the two, and spend as much as you can on the amplifier. But, not as much sense to spend a lot on the pre/pro.


Unfortunately, pre/pros have historically been more expensive than even the flagship AVRs.

So, that kinda made what should have made the most sense, not make any sense.


There is no denying that it's a lot easier to build a high quality, very powerful amplifier in it's own chassis.

And it's obviously best to keep all the heat that it produces away from the sensitive circuitry that does all the processing and decoding.


Whether it "sounds better" or not.


But, if it costs just as much, or more, to replace an obsolete pre/pro as it does to replace a comparable performing but also obsolete AVR, that's all moot.


My advice to you, is to order the 975, and use your receiver as a 5 channel amp through the analog inputs.

You have 30 days to decide whether it sounds better.


If it does, by all means order the 7125 amp. I am 100% positive that you'll love how that sounds; when compared to the amp section of any AVR.
 
#449 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch47d  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24707846

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidan  /t/1423584/outlaw-975/420#post_24692541


I am considering replacing my Yamaha RX-Z1 with possibly the 975 or umc-200. I don't want to drop 3 grand again on a reciever or system that is obsolete in a couple years.

Would going to the 975/7125 combo be a very noticeable step down in sound quality from the Z1?
You are asking a question that demands a highly subjective reply.


As far as the first statement is concerned, the amp section of a receiver doesn't ever become obsolete.

The processing and decoding section is what "expires".


So, it seems to make sense to separate the two, and spend as much as you can on the amplifier. But, not as much sense to spend a lot on the pre/pro.


Unfortunately, pre/pros have historically been more expensive than even the flagship AVRs.

So, that kinda made what should have made the most sense, not make any sense.


There is no denying that it's a lot easier to build a high quality, very powerful amplifier in it's own chassis.

And it's obviously best to keep all the heat that it produces away from the sensitive circuitry that does all the processing and decoding.


Whether it "sounds better" or not.


But, if it costs just as much, or more, to replace an obsolete pre/pro as it does to replace a comparable performing but also obsolete AVR, that's all moot.


My advice to you, is to order the 975, and use your receiver as a 5 channel amp through the analog inputs.

You have 30 days to decide whether it sounds better.


If it does, by all means order the 7125 amp. I am 100% positive that you'll love how that sounds; when compared to the amp section of any AVR.

THanks for the reply CH!

Your comments are my sentiments exactly!

The idea of using my Z1 as the amp has merit...except my Z1's center channel amp is having issues (fading in and out alot). Which is the main reason I'm looking for something new - otherwise I think I'd just live without DTS master/HD and keep my ole Z1.


It appears too that the outlaw amp is far superior than most - especially as they label the power correctly and honestly. Something I admire in a company.
 
#450 ·
I received a nice PM from a user regarding my little review of the 975, so I figured a brief update might be helpful. My 975 continues to function superbly delivering exceptional sound quality that equals if not exceeds other pre-amps I have owned. So far the only bump in the road was playing a redbook audio CD. The HDMI handshake took 2-3 tries to get all channels to output but that was one time with the same disc. So no complaints... try 12 Years a Slave with it's DTS Master Audio sound track on the 975 (or any lossless decoder) for very realistic outdoor sounds in 7.1.
 
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