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post #211 of 493 Old 12-17-2012, 03:00 PM
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thanks for the update

Regards,
Charlie

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post #212 of 493 Old 12-17-2012, 07:03 PM
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Thanks Wyatt, how does the 975 SQ compare to your Lexicon?

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post #213 of 493 Old 12-17-2012, 07:53 PM
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I'm really happy with the sound quality of the 975 - have some CDs playing now with PL-II Music and enjoying my family room more than I ever have! Hard to compare to my MC-12 - the 975 is in my family room with 5.1 Onix Ref 2/Ref 100 speakers and the Lex is in my theater with 7.1 Dali Euponias. In terms of pure sound quality of the electronics I'd say comparable with the speaker difference caveats. Certainly the configurability is very minimal on the 975 - but that is one of the reasons I wanted it for my family room. My theater has a combined MC-12 + Marantz AV8003 with many sources, Zektor 5.1 switching, etc; remote macros with 50+ steps.

I do miss having a default audio setting (ie. PL-II Movie for PCM). I'm watching a channel with PCM set to PL-II Movie and a commercial comes on with Dolby Digital when the normal program returns it's back to plain PCM... For my usage this is not a huge deal - ie. with DVD/BluRays it's not an issue nor is it with the DirectTV music channels.

My biggest frustration has been not being able to learn the remote commands to my URC remote - I'm fairly experienced at programming remotes and I just can't get the codes learned to be able to incorporate them into activity macros....the initial remote is a temporary solution with a permanent device to be shipped shortly.

I'm staying up too late typing this...I'm really enjoying listening to music through the 975!! smile.gif
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post #214 of 493 Old 12-17-2012, 09:31 PM
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well, I was 80% sure I was going to get one. Up to 99% now. Thanks a lot for the feedback.

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #215 of 493 Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 PM
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Thanks Wyatt! Nice speakers you have there. I have ONIX in my living room as well and Snell XAs in the theater.

So I ordered a 975 tonight. I will post back after I replace my Lexicon with it and let you all know how it sounds. I really like how Outlaw went for audio quality first over useless features. It is similar to the thinking of the recent Bryston pre/pro with no room correction and little to no video "improvements". I can count the number of times on one hand I have used the "Party" mode on my Lexicon. rolleyes.gif Also, It appears to be an amazing deal. biggrin.gif

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post #216 of 493 Old 12-18-2012, 07:01 PM
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Audiophil - likewise nice speakers. smile.gif

I'm interested in others' experiences. I've wondered where they are at catching up with the initial orders - wondering what your shipping timeframe will be.

I contacted them about my remote learning issues - Scott thinks it may have to do with how the temporary remote emits the signals and asked me to call tomorrow. What are you using for system control??

I've had my unit on most of the evening and everything continues without a single hiccup.

Looking forward to hearing your evaluation!

Wyatt
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post #217 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 12:28 AM
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Does anybody know what DACs are in this?
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post #218 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruser View Post

Does anybody know what DACs are in this?
Yes. Privileged information. Just wondering, why do you ask?

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post #219 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 08:08 AM
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http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4970xx_family.html

But more important than the choice of DAC is how well the analog output stage is implemented.
After all that is what you ultimately "hear".
(unless you have speakers with direct digital inputs then you are always listening to their output stages)
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post #220 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophil View Post

Thanks Wyatt! Nice speakers you have there. I have ONIX in my living room as well and Snell XAs in the theater.
So I ordered a 975 tonight. I will post back after I replace my Lexicon with it and let you all know how it sounds. I really like how Outlaw went for audio quality first over useless features. It is similar to the thinking of the recent Bryston pre/pro with no room correction and little to no video "improvements". I can count the number of times on one hand I have used the "Party" mode on my Lexicon. rolleyes.gif Also, It appears to be an amazing deal. biggrin.gif

Is it possible the “concentrated on SQ” impression is a marketing tactic? What does the 975 do differently than similar priced audio equipment?

I do applaud Outlaw for not including features they feel they cannot do correctly given the current price point such as room correction. On the other hand the 975 is missing features (minus party mode) included on similar priced equipment that many folks might find useful.

-Bob
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post #221 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 10:16 AM
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OK just set up the 975 with a **75 7 channel amplifier that is to replace an 1120 Pioneer unit. Set up was simple given the simplicity of the design.

Here are a few positive remarks:

Appreciated the multiple crossover settings and the flexibility with 7.1 setup. The amplifier performed great and stayed cool during a Terminator 4 viewing at reference levels witha Martin Logan Motion 7.1 speaker system consisting of four towers and two bookshelf speakers plus center.

No problem engaging matrixed sound to surround back speakers etc.

Now for the bad:

There is no CEC support as such I could not control unit volume nor auto ON/OFF with TV remote

I could not get video signal out of my Panasonic Blu Rayplayer when 2D -3D conversion was used (direct thru TV was fine so cable is good).

Since this morning I could not get video out from my PS3 at least on a couple of inputs (will check others later) but I was able to watch a movie yesterday.

The remote is frustratingly unresponsive.

I like Outlaw - have purchased and owned several of their products but this unit seems a bit rushed.
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post #222 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 12:03 PM
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The remote is a known issue, which is why they are sending out a new one next month with greater responsiveness and range.

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post #223 of 493 Old 12-19-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4970xx_family.html
But more important than the choice of DAC is how well the analog output stage is implemented.
After all that is what you ultimately "hear".
(unless you have speakers with direct digital inputs then you are always listening to their output stages)

Exactly. I will take a well designed output stage and premium components over features any day. HD/XM radio with crap sound quality, a phono stage I will never use, and tons of extra inputs are things I don't need. IMO they should have left out the tuner and NTSC video switching as well.

Outlaw has gear on Stereophile's recommended components list so it is unlikely (but possible) it will have poor sound. How much the premium components and engineering with less features is marketing or truth will be told when I actually hear it. biggrin.gif

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post #224 of 493 Old 12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
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Outlaw Audio called me today at work and said my 975 is ready to ship. They asked if it was a x-mas gift and if so, they could over night ship it to me. I had them set up a Saturday delivery date. Fantastic customer service so far!!

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post #225 of 493 Old 12-23-2012, 07:03 AM
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My father in law picked one up and everything was good until I connectedhis Boxee Box. If the Boxee is on when I switch to that input it's usually ok but when I switch to the input with Boxee off and take it out of standby I see the boot screen for Boxee but as soon as the Boxee enables the HDMI output, no picture is displayed....I have to unplug the HDMI from the Boxee to the 975 and plug it back in , then the picture appears. I can recreate this 80% of the time.....frustrating!!!!!! Has anyone else experienced handshake issues?
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post #226 of 493 Old 12-23-2012, 09:03 AM
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Steve...don't unplug the boxee...switch to a different HDMI input and back to the input that the Boxee is on...it's a damn HDCP issue (quite common, actually).

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post #227 of 493 Old 12-23-2012, 12:58 PM
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Thanks Dave, I totally understand what you are saying but I'm programming a Harmony and my mother in law is a dinosaur when it comes to technology...... this system needs to select inputs and so forth flawlessly via macros.....or I will get many phone calls. Will she even use Netflix and Hulu ? Who knows, but they have no patience for things that are quirky. My father in law is actually pretty tech friendly but it's their only decent TV and gets a lot of use. I will probably just connect it back up to the TV....no issues at all when direct.
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post #228 of 493 Old 12-23-2012, 04:43 PM
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You may have to build a delay into your macro to allow the Outlaw to be fully on (maybe 10 seconds or so) and then turn on the Boxee.

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post #229 of 493 Old 12-24-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_m10 View Post

Is it possible the “concentrated on SQ” impression is a marketing tactic? What does the 975 do differently than similar priced audio equipment?
I do applaud Outlaw for not including features they feel they cannot do correctly given the current price point such as room correction. On the other hand the 975 is missing features (minus party mode) included on similar priced equipment that many folks might find useful.
-Bob

Maybe you should buy one and try it out your self.
See for your self if the sound quality is nothing more than 'marketing tactic' by Outlaw.

Domino's donÂt fall all at once, they fall one at a time...
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post #230 of 493 Old 12-24-2012, 07:22 AM
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Thanks again Dave, however this occurs when the units are powered up for a length of time. If the Boxee is in standby then I switch to that input on the 975 it will happen when I wake the Boxee up. It is clearly the 975 as it did not happen with his Pioneer receiver. I will try some different cables tonight and am going to set up my brother in law's PS3 as I have read reports of problems with the 975 and PS3. Perhaps I can narrow it down to just the Boxee.
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post #231 of 493 Old 12-24-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. View Post

Thanks again Dave, however this occurs when the units are powered up for a length of time. If the Boxee is in standby then I switch to that input on the 975 it will happen when I wake the Boxee up. It is clearly the 975 as it did not happen with his Pioneer receiver. I will try some different cables tonight and am going to set up my brother in law's PS3 as I have read reports of problems with the 975 and PS3. Perhaps I can narrow it down to just the Boxee.


Sounds like the 975 is waiting for the boxee to resend its EDID but the unit isn't when waking up from standby.
Why does this not happen with other units?
They store the last known good EDID information. Maybe the 975 isn't doing this.
I don't think however that this is breaking any HDMI handshaking rules because gear is supposed to resend their EDID when waking up so that handshaking can initiate.

Isn't HDMI fun?rolleyes.gif
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post #232 of 493 Old 12-24-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. View Post

Thanks Dave, I totally understand what you are saying but I'm programming a Harmony and my mother in law is a dinosaur when it comes to technology...... this system needs to select inputs and so forth flawlessly via macros.....or I will get many phone calls. Will she even use Netflix and Hulu ? Who knows, but they have no patience for things that are quirky. My father in law is actually pretty tech friendly but it's their only decent TV and gets a lot of use. I will probably just connect it back up to the TV....no issues at all when direct.

Try waking up the Boxee..waiting for a few seconds, then switching to that input and see if that fixes it.

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post #233 of 493 Old 12-27-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_m10 View Post

I used to feel the same way and kept my 950 and Outlaw amp combo for years and never considered using an AVR as a pre/pro. At the time something about having unused features and amps in the AVR used as a pre/pro rubbed me the wrong way. In addition I liked the idea of a manufacturer focusing on SQ and not all the bells and whistles.
Last year my 950 died and Outlaw was struggling to bring a pre/pro to market. With all other pre/pro $1K plus I noticed a Yamaha RX-A700 on sale at Amazon for ~$300! This is their entry level in the Adventage line and included pre-outs for connection to my amp. I decided to purchase the Yamaha and I have been very pleased with the results. I admit now, I have trouble hearing SQ differences in decent electronics (probably a good thing in this hobby) and I have come to appreciate some of the features on the Yamaha. Having a professional looking GUI, ability to rename inputs, one button scene selection, zone 2, ect shows maturity in a product, not lack of focus. Now when I saw the 975 I thought about it and still do, the one major problem is zone2 output, this is now a requirement. Ease of use is now another so I think I will stick with the Yamaha. Perhaps next time Outlaw. I do wish Outlaw well with this product and curious to see how it fairs in the market.
-Bob

Just coming clean here. Rather than wait for the head to head results of Outlaw vs Emotiva pre/pros, I found a great price on a heavy mid-fi receiver (onkyo nr809 at $431) which has pre outs and all manner of bells and whistles. I guess I learned that I'm more price sensitive than a purist. The onkyo, of course has had HDMI problems, but I'm hoping I am one of the fortunate ones. If this experiment fails, I'll certainly give Outlaw a try again. They have always stood behind their products... Which I'm afraid onkyo will not do as well.
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post #234 of 493 Old 01-02-2013, 07:12 PM
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So, how does the 975 sound? Well I say fantastic! I have been noticing a trend with new 975 owners that there is a lot of music listening going on and it is hard to step away from it and let others know what you think. This pre-amp really makes nice music. Most of my listening so far has been from my Sony Blu-Ray player via HDMI to the 975 in 'Stereo+Sub' mode for Redbook CDs and whatever lossless audio is on a particular Blu-Ray. So thoughts on some material I have enjoyed on my 975:

Disney Blu-Ray African Cats (DTS Master Audio) - Amazing sound from the big cats, SCARY good at reference levels! You can also hear the saliva in VO artist Samuel Jackson's mouth. Now that is lossless audio. smile.gif

Norah Jones - Broken Little Hearts (Redbook CD) - Fantastic. When she starts to sing the track Miriam, it is like a well made sports car taking a curve at speed, this pre-amp/DAC easily makes her sound alive.

Chick Corea - Remembering Bud Powell (Redbook CD) - The best reproduction of a drum kit I have heard on my system. Simply sounds like live Jazz. smile.gif

Overall I don't miss my Lexicon. The Logic 7 processing may have been SLIGHTLY smoother with sound pans between channels on 7.1 DTS/DD but the extra detail and warmth from the 975 more than make up for the loss of Logic 7. My biggest suggestion for potential buyers is to make sure your Blu-Ray player outputs bitstream and standard 2 channel PCM over HDMI. When I first connected the 975 I was only getting MultiChannel PCM and I thought... hmmm, more detail but alot of nasty mid-fi receiver sound going on here. Thanks to the fine folks on the AVS Sony Blu-Ray player owner's thread I found out the correct settings for output of bitstream/standard redbook PCM (HDMI Audio = Auto, BD Mix setting = off).

My only suggestion to Outlaw Audio would be to price this pre-amp at $2K. If I went up the street to my high-end audio saloon (Gifted Listener Audio) and heard this pre/dac making music I would guess the SQ to be in the ~$2K range. It will no doubt be on Stereophile's recommended components list like their other products. Good job Outlaw!

For those interested... here what the main menu looks like. 4x3 480p goodness... luckily the sound is better than the OSD (and remote!) smile.gif

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post #235 of 493 Old 01-02-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophil View Post

Overall I don't miss my Lexicon. The Logic 7 processing may have been SLIGHTLY smoother with sound pans between channels on 7.1 DTS/DD but the extra detail and warmth from the 975 more than make up for the loss of Logic 7.
Do you mean 7.1 DTS/DD sources, or 5.1 sources processed into 7.1? I assume the latter. If so, are you using PLIIx or something else? And you realize there's no steering at all in the L/C/R in that case.

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post #236 of 493 Old 01-03-2013, 07:03 PM
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Do you mean 7.1 DTS/DD sources, or 5.1 sources processed into 7.1? I assume the latter. If so, are you using PLIIx or something else? And you realize there's no steering at all in the L/C/R in that case.

Yes you are correct, 5.1 to 7.1 Logic 7 processing I thought was a tad bit better than the Outlaw doing the same thing. But the Outlaw definitely has more detail in the sound so it is six, half dozen the other. I prefer the Outlaw overall but the Lexicon was no slouch either. Unfortunately I have no 7.1 Blu-Ray discs to test but the lossless audio sure sounds good. smile.gif

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post #237 of 493 Old 01-04-2013, 07:05 AM
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I haven't been following this thread that closely but read an interesting post about the 975 over at the Emotiva Lounge. There has been a discussion about whether the 975 has bass management and speaker delay settings in all Hi-Rez audio formats. Below is a quote from Emotiva owner Dan Laufman.

Not to get into an argument on the relative merits of the 975 vs. the UMC-200, but the 975 DOES NOT allow for bass management and delay management with all high resolution codecs! This is a fact.

Is the above true in that with certain Hi-Rez codecs the 975's BM and speaker settings are disabled?

Below is a link to the thread where that quote came from. Strange that the thread is now locked wink.gif.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=preamps&thread=28059&page=1#478122

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post #238 of 493 Old 01-04-2013, 08:43 AM
 
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I've never seen the CEO of an electronics company come out and diss another company like that, UMC sales must be slow or something. Notice he doesn't actually define what codecs he's talking about, just makes a broad statement. Too bad he couldn't even make such statements about the UMC-1's bass management, speaker dropouts,etc. "It just works".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

I've never seen the CEO of an electronics company come out and diss another company like that, UMC sales must be slow or something. Notice he doesn't actually define what codecs he's talking about, just makes a broad statement. Too bad he couldn't even make such statements about the UMC-1's bass management, speaker dropouts,etc. "It just works".

True. But the question remains is there an issue with the 975 inregard to processing of specific Hi-Rez codecs?

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post #240 of 493 Old 01-04-2013, 09:13 AM
 
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Yes, the question remains. If Dan would have been more specific under what conditions and codec he was referring to then owners may have been able to attempt it and see what result they get. But since it was a non specific comment, who knows?
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