IS XT32 worth extra and how to balance 2 subs without - AVS Forum
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All

In market for new receiver (HDMI board issues on 906 - not happy!)

Looking to replace it. Prior to Onkyo I've had a Pioneer Elite VSX-92THX. I thought I wanted Audyssey, but doesn't seem to be any better than Pioneer's MCCAC.

I'd like to spent $1,000-$1,200 (or less if possible). Would go to $1,500 for a significant benefit. I have Mirage Omnisat speakers (7.1). If I get somethng that supports x.2, I may buy another sub. I'm interested in trying front height speakers too, so PLIIz would be nice.

I need at least 5 HDMI and would really like dual independant HDMI out (as I have 720p in bedroom and 1080P in HT, so matrix switch isn;t going to work for me unless I get one with a scaler or live with 720p in HT when bedroom TV is on). this is probably the feature that would me make me stretch my budget to $1500.

Sources:

  • Windows Media Center (TV)
  • AppleTV purchased TV and movies
  • Vudu (HDX Movies)
  • Blu-ray
  • Sonos


Would like to add 2nd AppleTV (if I can get dual independant HDMI) I review a lot of products too, so a spare HDMI port would be handy

I'm not an audiophile, but do appreciate decent quality. I do rip all my CD's as lossless and stream everythign via my Sonos. Most of my listening is contemporary music, with some older classics like Pink Floyd and Alan Parsons

iOS app would be nice too

Would really like RS232 to integrate with my URC stuff.


The AVR-3313CI has all of this but no XT32, but it does have 4K and newer stuff (want good IOS apps)

The AVR-4311CI has the XT32, but doesn't have multi-zone HDMI and is 2 years old now.

So, is the XT32 stuff (and SubEQ) really worth it? If I get the 3313Ci and a second sub, how would I blance them?

Regards

Mark
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

So, is the XT32 stuff (and SubEQ) really worth it? If I get the 3313Ci and a second sub, how would I blance them?
Regards
Mark


Yes, it's worth it.

to properly set up two subs you need some type of measuring capability. Either REW/soundcard/mic set-up, or the more streamlined OmniMic from Parts Express (outstanding btw), or a much more compromised approach utilizing a SPL meter and some test tones.

Without measuring capability, you're just flying blind. And yes, properly set up it, ..... will be worthwhile.


Good luck


* Check this out from Audioholics, it may help.

Also, check out this, it's got a plethora of info.

------------------------------------
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------------------------------------
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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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^^^

imo/ime, yes it is "worth it"...

the 4311, although 2 years old, has all of the current "worthwhile" features...

sure a matrix switch will do what you want... that is what they are designed to do... it doesn't require a scaler or anything... i use the 4x2 matrix switch from monoprice without issue to different displays that provide different edid information...

- chris

 

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Old 08-20-2012, 10:22 AM
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Hai,

If you visit the denon avp owners thread (sticky) and search you will find about 30 to 40 people who had to decide on the a xt32 upgrade for our machines. The cost was about $1200 to $1500 for the upgrade so we had many discussions on the value of it. In the end 99% of the people who did the upgrade felt that the xt32 results are far better than xt and that helped many feel happy about the steep upgrade price. The conclusion on how to work with subs is less clear, the avp can use 3 subs but there is no clear winner on how to feed them using the different xt32 settings many feel that calibrating them as one gives best results.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:28 AM
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This should show you how big of a difference there is.. And there is a big difference.
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
imo/ime, yes it is "worth it"...
the 4311, although 2 years old, has all of the current "worthwhile" features...
sure a matrix switch will do what you want... that is what they are designed to do... it doesn't require a scaler or anything... i use the 4x2 matrix switch from monoprice without issue to different displays that provide different edid information...

Hi Chris

Thanks for reply. I guess the matrix isn't as big an issue as I thought (not sure why I didn't realize this earlier). I think it's only going to be an issue if both TV's are connected to same source: then I'll get 720P on both. Very rare that will happen: if it happens too much, will upgrade TV in bedroom

Regards

Mark
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all replies. Looks like it's the 4311 then
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:51 AM
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4311CI, for sure.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

4311CI, for sure.

Indeed great value for the money.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
imo/ime, yes it is "worth it"...
the 4311, although 2 years old, has all of the current "worthwhile" features...
sure a matrix switch will do what you want... that is what they are designed to do... it doesn't require a scaler or anything... i use the 4x2 matrix switch from monoprice without issue to different displays that provide different edid information...

Hi Chris

Thanks for reply. I guess the matrix isn't as big an issue as I thought (not sure why I didn't realize this earlier). I think it's only going to be an issue if both TV's are connected to same source: then I'll get 720P on both. Very rare that will happen: if it happens too much, will upgrade TV in bedroom

Regards

Mark

yea, you should be fine... pm me if you run into any issues... smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

Thanks for all replies. Looks like it's the 4311 then

obviously, i think that's a wise decision... smile.gif if you haven't gotta have it "today", i'd be willing to bet that there will be a number of "pre-owned" 4311's available when the 4520 hits the streets... but at it's current street price new, it's a heckuva deal...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 08-20-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

Thanks for all replies. Looks like it's the 4311 then

Definitely the right choice when compared to the 3313.

Bill

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Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Hai,
If you visit the denon avp owners thread (sticky) and search you will find about 30 to 40 people who had to decide on the a xt32 upgrade for our machines. The cost was about $1200 to $1500 for the upgrade so we had many discussions on the value of it. In the end 99% of the people who did the upgrade felt that the xt32 results are far better than xt and that helped many feel happy about the steep upgrade price. The conclusion on how to work with subs is less clear, the avp can use 3 subs but there is no clear winner on how to feed them using the different xt32 settings many feel that calibrating them as one gives best results.
Daniel.

So here's a good question for you.

I have been running the multieq-xt for a while now via an Onkyo PRSC-5507 (pre/pro). Dedicated room and two capable subs. I've been eyeing XT-32 upgrade for the last couple of years and..... I think it's time. Now, the least expensive way to get there would be the pre-amp section of an Onkyo 818. I would lose balanced outputs but that's not much of a concern. What does concern me is the inability of the 818 to level and phase match the two subs independently (more so the phase matching). In order to address that concern I would have to choose either an AVR4311 or Onkyo 1010 instead. They would end up costing me about the same. But that's a $400 jump and frankly the ability to calibrate the two subs independently is pretty much the only additional feature that I can see myself using in that upgrade. Is that ability worth the extra $400?????

Allan
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by allanf714 View Post

So here's a good question for you.
I have been running the multieq-xt for a while now via an Onkyo PRSC-5507 (pre/pro). Dedicated room and two capable subs. I've been eyeing XT-32 upgrade for the last couple of years and..... I think it's time. Now, the least expensive way to get there would be the pre-amp section of an Onkyo 818. I would lose balanced outputs but that's not much of a concern. What does concern me is the inability of the 818 to level and phase match the two subs independently (more so the phase matching). In order to address that concern I would have to choose either an AVR4311 or Onkyo 1010 instead. They would end up costing me about the same. But that's a $400 jump and frankly the ability to calibrate the two subs independently is pretty much the only additional feature that I can see myself using in that upgrade. Is that ability worth the extra $400?????
Allan

I don't think it's worth the extra $400. You can easily set the distance for the two subs using a tape measure and level matching shouldn't be too difficult. The difficult part is the frequency correction and that isn't effected by the dual sub capability.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:30 AM
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The difficult part is the frequency correction and that isn't effected by the dual sub capability.

Sure it is. Even if you have two identical subs, their FR is going to be impacted by their positioning in the room. Only Audyssey Sub EQ HT is going to correct them both, properly.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn link


The difficult part is the frequency correction and that isn't effected by the dual sub capability.



Sure it is. Even if you have two identical subs, their FR is going to be impacted by their positioning in the room. Only Audyssey Sub EQ HT is going to correct them both, properly.
The only unique function of Sub EQ HT is independent level and distance.

Spending $300.00 dollars or less for measuring gear is a far better investment if money is an issue. Properly positioned dual subs using measuring gear will be superior to guess work on positioning and Sub EQ HT. In fact, I've seen Sub EQ measurements that are worse than using one sub out and a y-cord with the subs in identical positions which shows that optimal pre-EQ positioning is more important than having Sub EQ HT, and Sub EQ HT can even hurt things in that scenario.

As to EQ, both regular Audyssey and Sub EQ equalize the subs as one, so same filters regardless.

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