Newbie speaker to reciever installation help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-22-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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im sorry for being such a newb at this but this is honestly my first time ever using a receiver and 5.1 speakers and i wanna get it right.
The reciever i got is an old sony handed down from my bro. Strictly audio as you can see from the pics

I just purchased the Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 speakers and am waiting for it to arrive but i thought i'd download the manual and study the installation instructions ahead of time.

Based on the pic of my reciever and the 2 installation options from the manual i have a couple of questions i could really use some help from you experts here on this great forum.

Can I use option 1 even though i dont have a sub out on my reciever? can i instead just attach my subwoofer to the audio out with rca jacks and the rest of my speakers as shown?

In option 2, i noticed i have to turn the subwoofer option "off" on the reciever. Does that mean my subwoofer and speakers volume will not be able to be controlled from my reciever? that would suck if i had to always reach into the back of my subwoofer to adjust the volume.

I'm saving some cash and hopefully will be able to buy an updated reciever in the near future that has the proper plugs that i need to make installation easier.

Thanks again for any help that can be given.






-newbie
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-22-2012, 06:00 PM
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No, you will be able to control the volume from your receiver. All you have to do is set correct setting at the sub.

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post #3 of 13 Old 08-22-2012, 08:55 PM
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You'll have to use Option #2 and although you will be able to control the volume of the FL/FR speakers, the sub will not be recognized and therefore you would have to control it's volume using the sub's own volume knob.

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post #4 of 13 Old 08-23-2012, 08:57 AM
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First, recognize that this receiver appears to have no capability of separately processing low-frequency audio. That tells me it is pre-Dolby Digital, supporting nothing more advanced that Dolby Surround.

That of course means no 5.1. (There don't seem to be any digital audio inputs anyway.) It is essentially a 2-channel receiver with the ability to create pseudo-surround, plus a center channel that consists of whatever sounds exist in common between the left and right channels.

These systems are bandwidth-limited -- there's little bass sent to the surround channels -- so all the bass in the signal goes to the main channels anyway. So it will be routed to your sub as long as it's connected to the main speaker outputs, and the crossover in the sub will split the low frequencies and send the rest to the left and right speakers.

Given all that, just connect using option 2. Use the sub's volume control to balance it to your other speakers, and its crossover control to set the recommended crossover with the satellites. Once balanced, the receiver's volume control will adjust the overall system volume.

Just keep in mind that this is essentially a stereo system. There are only two source channels, and the Dolby Surround process uses logic to create surround effects. You need a modern digital AVR to get anything more.

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post #5 of 13 Old 08-23-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow thank u sir. Looks like I better save up for an updated receiver if I want the TRUE surround sound rather than the emulated surround
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-24-2012, 05:44 PM
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Yes. The good news is that even the most entry-level modern AV receiver will give you the multichannel processing, power, and speaker management features you need to get the most from your new speakers. An example (not a recommendation; competitive models are available from many manufacturers) is the Denon AVR-1312, often available for under $200, which would match those speakers well in a smallish room, and integrate easily with any typical HDTV, gaming system, set-top box, Blu-ray player, etc.

Save the old Sony to use as the stereo amp driving, say, remote speakers on the porch, or something.

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post #7 of 13 Old 08-24-2012, 07:35 PM
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A great choice for a starter AVR is a refurb such as the 1612 which is 5.1 and uses Audyssey MultEQ (auto speaker/sub EQ).

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1612/DENON-AVR-1612-5.1-Channel-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

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post #8 of 13 Old 08-24-2012, 11:50 PM
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I'm a big fan of refurbs. Just from where I'm sitting I see a 47" local-dimming LED TV, a Harmony remote, a TiVo HD, and an Acer laptop, all refurbs, all bargains, no problems. And I would certainly agree about stepping up to an AVR with room correction if possible.

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post #9 of 13 Old 08-25-2012, 02:35 PM
 
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A bit too much misinformation in this thread. Let's try and sort this out.

"You'll have to use Option #2 and although you will be able to control the volume of the FL/FR speakers, the sub will not be recognized and therefore you would have to control it's volume using the sub's own volume knob."

No. He will need to balance the sub's volume nob to match output once with the other speakers. Afterward, volume on the receiver will control sub volume as the sub is using the incoming variable speaker-level input as a baseline to amplify from.

In addition, Option #1 may work if the receiver does variable level output on the Video Out port. If Video Out is variable as an option in the receiver's menu, then it would be the better choice to run that out to the sub as you'll also capture the center channel's bass in that case.

"That of course means no 5.1." "Just keep in mind that this is essentially a stereo system. There are only two source channels, and the Dolby Surround process uses logic to create surround effects."

Not true. Depending on source material it will absolutely spit out full, real surround. Squinting at the picture, it looks like an STR-DE315, which supports original Pro Logic. In example, modern consoles encode to Pro Logic II for transmission over analog stereo connections, which Pro Logic I still decodes, just not at PLII quality levels. Stating that a signal encoded to Pro Logic at the source is not true surround, or is only two channels is like claiming that Dolby Digital over Toslink is only one-channel audio because it is encoded to a single bitstream.


So, linkseo, hook up your new speakers to this receiver and enjoy your real surround package! Make sure to find and turn on the Pro Logic decoding option on the receiver side, and look for audio output options on your source devices with names like Pro Logic II and Dolby Surround. I would still absolutely recommend getting a new receiver as your next upgrade, but this is a perfectly serviceable starting point. smile.gif When you do get a new receiver, I'd suggest getting something that has Audyssey's MultEQ or higher level room correction. That stuff is bloody brilliant. As jds pointed out, that Denon 1612 is a great deal with fantastic room correction.

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

Go learn more about what MultEQ does for you. Just make sure to ignore anything that only does 2EQ.
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-25-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"That of course means no 5.1." "Just keep in mind that this is essentially a stereo system. There are only two source channels, and the Dolby Surround process uses logic to create surround effects."
Not true. Depending on source material it will absolutely spit out full, real surround. Squinting at the picture, it looks like an STR-DE315, which supports original Pro Logic. In example, modern consoles encode to Pro Logic II for transmission over analog stereo connections, which Pro Logic I still decodes, just not at PLII quality levels. Stating that a signal encoded to Pro Logic at the source is not true surround, or is only two channels is like claiming that Dolby Digital over Toslink is only one-channel audio because it is encoded to a single bitstream.

Pretty much everything in this response is wrong. I did not say "real surround," because that's a nebulous and meaningless term. I said "no 5.1." Discrete surround means that each channel is never mixed with any other. Dolby Surround is not a discrete surround process.

In most real-world cases there will be little audible difference between those rare sources actually encoded as Dolby Surround, and other random stereo sources, because the Pro Logic decoding process treates them identically. In-phase sound present at identical amplitude in both channels is routed to the center. Out of phase sound, depending on frequency, amplitude, and degree, is routed to the surround channel.

Pro Logic is a decoding algorithm. Dolby Surround is the encoding process. There is no such thing as "encoding to Pro Logic II," and never was. The development of Pro Logic II was in order to achieve better results from the same Dolby Surround sources; it was not a new encoding system.

Finally, your analogy is ridiculous. Dolby Surround is a two channel source because it is a two channel source. Four original channels are mixed into two so that they will play back properly on two-channel equipment. Extracting the center and surround channels is an approximation. Steering is done by algorithm, math that has to be made to work on any signal, because there is no actual data to tell the decoder what sounds go where. That's why Pro Logic works on stereo sources that have never been anywhere near a DS encoder: most stereo sources contain the same kinds of information that a DS-encoded signal contain. Amplitude, phase, frequency.

Can it sound OK? Sure. Is it 5.1? No. Is 5.1 much, much better than matrixed surround. Absolutely. Is anybody using Dolby Surround encoding any more? Not so much. Is this old Sony receiver appropriate for use in a modern digital AV system? Only if you don't care about surround sound, something I don't think is true of the OP, who just bought a new 5.1 speaker system.

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post #11 of 13 Old 08-25-2012, 10:31 PM
 
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"There is no such thing as "encoding to Pro Logic II," and never was. The development of Pro Logic II was in order to achieve better results from the same Dolby Surround sources; it was not a new encoding system."

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/hardware/broadcast/surround-and-pro-logic/dp563.html

"The DP563 provides two surround encoding algorithms. The original Dolby Surround algorithm..." "The Dolby Pro Logic II algorithm encodes..."

That's only one of roughly a billion results that come back when you dump a simple "encoding to Pro Logic II" string in to Google. But hey, I bet you know better than Dolby as to whether PLII encoding exists, right?

PLII was absolutely developed as both an encoding and decoding standard. It also absolutely gives you very discrete channels when present and properly used in both the source and receiver, with the majority of usefulness still being present on an original Pro Logic receiver as this is. Again, depending on what he wants to use it with linkseo can get quite useful, discrete and accurate surround sound out of this hand-me-down receiver. As good as what he can get with today's product? No, of course not. The thing isn't the useless piece of garbage that everyone else here seems to be so quick to disregard it as though.

"In most real-world cases there will be little audible difference between those rare sources actually encoded as Dolby Surround, and other random stereo sources"

I can take a Wii where every game worth playing spits out PLII encoded audio, and an original Xbox of similar audio processing capability spitting out DD5.1 over Toslink, and have them very difficult to distinguish between each other. In example, Metroid Prime and Halo 2 are very close in how they produce accurate surround. Take Silent HIll 4 and Resident Evil 4 in the same setup and again, you'll have proper placement of all channels with zero guessing on the receiver's end.
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-28-2012, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote name="darklordjames" So, linkseo, hook up your new speakers to this receiver and enjoy your real surround package! Make sure to find and turn on the Pro Logic decoding option on the receiver side, and look for audio output options on your source devices with names like Pro Logic II and Dolby Surround. I would still absolutely recommend getting a new receiver as your next upgrade, but this is a perfectly serviceable starting point. smile.gif When you do get a new receiver, I'd suggest getting something that has Audyssey's MultEQ or higher level room correction. That stuff is bloody brilliant. As jds pointed out, that Denon 1612 is a great deal with fantastic room correction.
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq
Go learn more about what MultEQ does for you. Just make sure to ignore anything that only does 2EQ.[/quote]

I did find a button for dolby surround.
I was able to hook it up using option 1. As mentioned, i can only control the volume for the satelites and not the bass which is fine for now.
This thing sounds great! Thanks all for your help and input!
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-28-2012, 03:33 PM
 
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"I was able to hook it up using option 1. As mentioned, i can only control the volume for the satelites and not the bass which is fine for now."

If you don't have a Variable Volume output option for Video Out, then Option #2 from your original pictures would be the better way to set this up. Left and Right speaker wire out to the sub, then more speaker wire from the sub to your Left and Right speakers. Volume control on the receiver will change the incoming level to the sub, therefore also changing the volume level of the sub.

Think of the volume out of the receiver over speaker wire as being a number from 1-10. Then the sub applies a 10x multiplier. The sub sees a "2" incoming from the receiver? It spits out a "20". The sub sees a "5" incoming? It spits out a "50".
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