Get rid of the old receiver, get a pre/pro or get an HDMI switch? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 08-27-2012, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I've just finished off my home theater room. Previously I just had a HDTV, and my receiver/sat box/ps3 etc were all right next to the HDTV. Now I've got a projector, and ran one HDMI from the computer, and one HDMI from the equipment closet.

My issue is that the receiver I have is a NAD T 752. Fairly old now, and unfortunately does not ANY HDMI ins/outs. That is an issue as I have a PS3, Shaw high def box, VCR in the equipment closet. The NAD still works great (Is a little loud though, I think the fan may need to be replaced/heatsink cleaned. It is a 5.1 receiver, but that's all I really have room for here (And all I ran speaker wire for.)

So, I could perhaps get a pre/pro as the NAD does have RCA inputs. Not really sure how much they cost either. Other option is to get a new receiver. I would probably want one with the audissy or whatever it is called. An issue here is that the front speakers are some old Adire Audio Kit 281's. (They are a 4 ohm speaker) That may make getting a new receiver a bit tough as most affordable ones crack under a 4 ohm load. (and I listen to movies fairly loud.)

Other option is to ditch the VCR and get a HDMI switch. This would be the cheapest solution. Not sure how well they work. Are they like a keyboard a/b switch where you just flip it and bingo? (Have 3 ins, one out, and just and A/B/C switch to select? Downside here is I miss out on any chance at audissy room setup. Also miss out on the Dolby Master HD sound or whatever it is. (The NAD does Dolby Digital, and DTS)

How much does audissy really add? How much does HD audio really add? If they add a LOT I certainly wouldn't be adverse to buying a pre/pro or a new receiver. I would however like to keep the budget around $500 CAD. I think I spent $1200 CAD on this receiver, and while it has server me very very well, it sucks that now it's outdated, and now I'm not really sure what to do with the thing. Other then use it as a very expensive paper weight?

Thanks!!
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post #2 of 34 Old 08-27-2012, 02:17 PM
 
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It's time to put down the old toys and buy a whole new set of toys to get with the current technological age. I know, it blows.

The Stones got it right in 1964: "Time Waits for No One."

eek.gif

Was Mitch ever that young? Have I become that old?

tongue.gif

Recently I replaced the AVR and the center channel. In the near future I'll be replacing the sub woofers with newer technology. And after that, I'll throw in an outboard Amp (an Emotiva XPA-5) just to shut my detractors up so they can't say I post from not having an outboard Amp.

The point, like it or not, today's day-and-age demands you periodically upgrade your gear or be happy with what you've got as there's little that can be considered middle ground.

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post #3 of 34 Old 08-27-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Loading View Post

How much does audissy really add? How much does HD audio really add? If they add a LOT I certainly wouldn't be adverse to buying a pre/pro or a new receiver. I would however like to keep the budget around $500 CAD. I think I spent $1200 CAD on this receiver, and while it has server me very very well, it sucks that now it's outdated, and now I'm not really sure what to do with the thing. Other then use it as a very expensive paper weight?
Thanks!!

Audyssey will likely be a much bigger boost to audio fidelity then will the jump to HD audio codecs. In your budget range, look for last year's models on clearance (eg. Denon 2112CI). Review the first few posts in the Denon AVR-XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig to see a comparison of the various models.

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post #4 of 34 Old 08-28-2012, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I've called all around the city and cant really find any of the xx12 series. I found a floor model 3312 that they were willing to let go for $800 CAD. That's a bit more then I wanted to spend. Not sure if the extra capabilities would really help, but looks like the 2113 is around $650 ish.

Any good places to buy one from the states that wouldn't charge me an arm and leg shipping?
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post #5 of 34 Old 08-28-2012, 05:52 PM
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Get a New Recv.. Let it handle all your Hdmi sources.. Umm Why do you still have a VCR Really..eek.gif ?? Have a Listen to your PS3/Blu Ray that way it ment to be heard, with DTS HD or Master Audio vs Dolby Digital/Pro Logic and you will hear what you been Missing! $500 should get you a Descent Recv, from the Likes of Denon,Onkyo, Yamaha etc!!
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post #6 of 34 Old 08-29-2012, 01:16 AM
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A $500 AVR won't do for 4Ω speakers which the OP has.

I was using my NAD T761 until a few months ago. My BDP sends HDMI to TV and 5.1CH analogue (decoded HD audio) to AVR. I wasn't urgently in need of an upgrade but only took the chance when an offer came about on a used Arcam.

The new HD codecs is NOT a BIG upgrade. Some even say there's no difference. The HD audio on Blu-ray is only 16- or 24-bit 48kHz, not high resolution. DVD can do 2CH 24/48. "HD" is largely marketing.

Room correction is an upgrade but it depends on your room and how badly it needs correction.

HDMI switch usually has buttons to press: do a bit more work yourself and search Google for pictures.

Forget pre-pro: you can't even get an Emo for $800 shipped.

An open box 3312 (not sure if it is rated for 4Ω - very much doubt the 2112 is) should be only CAD700+ given FS online just sold the last few new for 799 this past weekend. I snatched one of the last to play with...

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #7 of 34 Old 08-29-2012, 07:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

A $500 AVR won't do for 4Ω speakers which the OP has.

In the future, your above comment sounds like an excellent reason to stay away from 4ohm speakers. Can't count the number of posts that have made comment like your above; "Sorry, no can do, it's a 4ohm speaker system."

Drat!

Nominal 8ohm speaker systems are like using 12AWG speaker wire, install it once and "fer-get-about-it."

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post #8 of 34 Old 08-29-2012, 07:45 AM
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^^
and you'd be missing a whole lot of hi quality, superb audio quality speakers.
you can't take general statements like that as "gospel" - well you can but you'd be wrong wink.gif

IMHO, you have it a bit backwards...instead of rejecting a speaker because of 4 ohms, one should budget for & get the AVR or amps required to properly drive your chosen speaker to begin with.

Your starting premise, like most, is buying the receiver 1st for x amt of money, then only spend what's left over on speakers. Instead, listen & compare speakers with the audio qualities that suit you, budget for those, THEN shop for something with the appropriate pwr capability.

Smarter choice, and over the long haul will provide years of enjoyment & superior audio. I have used the same speaker design for 30 yrs and my 1st pair lasted me from '82 - '03. AVR's have almost become throwaways - why put it in the exalted place of everything must cater to it? Plan to get the speakers you like, whatever impedance, whatever design, whatever power requirement & they can last decades.

There are scads of highly respected speakers that are 4 ohm nominal rated. Nothing exotic about them. Many common brands. Of course, if you want want to limit yourself to DefTech, Polkies or Klipsch type speakers or stay in the budget receiver category all your life, the choice is yours tongue.gifwink.gif

proper gear matching is still relevant

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post #9 of 34 Old 08-29-2012, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
and you'd be missing a whole lot of hi quality, superb audio quality speakers.
you can't take general statements like that as "gospel" - well you can but you'd be wrong wink.gif

Yeah, well it's not the only thing I'm missing. eek.gif

Choices. Speakers, Amps or matching both.

I'm of the KIS (Keep It Simple) school of thought. Life is a trade off and we can make life as easy or as difficult as we choose. We can try to save a buck recycling outdated technology and for what purpose, making our lives difficult trying to get old technology to marry up with new technology; in the process, fighting to integrate the short comings of the old with the new? Or, we can take old, 4ohm speakers and try to find an old 4ohm AVR to drive them with so one can find the old technology won't get along with today's technology? None of which, to my keep it simple philosophy, makes a dimes worth of sense. That's an opinion, not a comment on another's thinking.

There are so many new, on the cheap (<$500.00), 8ohm AVR's in today's entry level market that it's a shame to muddy the audio waters with older, entry level 4ohm speakers. In my not so humble opinion, the OP would be better served by ditching the 4ohm speakers, buy an 8ohm factory refurbished AVR on the cheap and a replacement pair of Polk Audio or Pioneer 8ohm speakers, all within the stated $500.00 budget and be done with it; keep it simple.

Then again, some like it hot?

tongue.gif

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post #10 of 34 Old 08-29-2012, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Yeah, well it's not the only thing I'm missing. eek.gif
Choices. Speakers, Amps or matching both.
I'm of the KIS (Keep It Simple) school of thought. Life is a trade off and we can make life as easy or as difficult as we choose. We can try to save a buck recycling outdated technology and for what purpose, making our lives difficult trying to get old technology to marry up with new technology; in the process, fighting to integrate the short comings of the old with the new? Or, we can take old, 4ohm speakers and try to find an old 4ohm AVR to drive them with so one can find the old technology won't get along with today's technology? None of which, to my keep it simple philosophy, makes a dimes worth of sense. That's an opinion, not a comment on another's thinking.
There are so many new, on the cheap (<$500.00), 8ohm AVR's in today's entry level market that it's a shame to muddy the audio waters with older, entry level 4ohm speakers. In my not so humble opinion, the OP would be better served by ditching the 4ohm speakers, buy an 8ohm factory refurbished AVR on the cheap and a replacement pair of Polk Audio or Pioneer 8ohm speakers, all within the stated $500.00 budget and be done with it; keep it simple.
Then again, some like it hot?
tongue.gif
-

I appreciate the comments, and no offence, but have you heard my old 'entry level' speakers? With my current setup they absolutely blow the pants off *anything* that can be bought at futureshop/bestbuy. Not only in sound quality but in looks as well. I finished them in cherry with a very nice finish. They also match the sound of the center and surrounds fairly well. Not perfect, but enough that it's not terribly noticeable. Audussey may make that difference larger, or smaller, or the same, I don't know. I do know that polks or pioneers would defiantly *not* match. It's not that difficult to find an AVR to drive 4 ohm speakers. Futureshop sells an AVR that specs it'll do fine with a 4 ohm load for $300!! It doesn't need to be a powerhouse of an amp either, as they are fairly efficient speakers (91 dB sensitivity if I recall) That's a perk for most 4 ohm designs, usually higher sensitivity.

Ditching these would make the setup more convoluted as I'd have to mess with the sub x-over (these poor 4 ohm speakers can play very low, being a dual 8" ported design, with a fair amount of excursion. And when I listen to music I dislike having a separate sub on. I like 2 speakers on any setup. A budget speaker would not be able to satisfy that.

Enough of that. Anyway, my budget isn't that strict. The only reason I wanted a lower budget was on my last AVR I think I paid $1200 CAD. That was a fine price for it. I'm only having regrets now as it's missing HDMI and now it'll essencially become a paperweight. An expensive paperweight. I'd hate that to happen to it's replacement in 5 years when the next new interconnect tech emerges. Although if I had gone with a cheaper AVR back then, would it have lasted me as long as this one has without ever skipping a beat, or would have a cheaper AVR died out years and years ago?? If spending an extra few hundred dollars will net me a lot better performance, I'm fine with it. I just dislike hitting the wall of diminishing returns. If I pump the budget up to $800 does that make the selection easier?
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post #11 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 04:34 AM
 
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Ditching these would make the setup more convoluted as I'd have to mess with the sub x-over (these poor 4 ohm speakers can play very low, being a dual 8" ported design, with a fair amount of excursion. And when I listen to music I dislike having a separate sub on. I like 2 speakers on any setup.

Two points, you mentioned home theater, not listening to two channel music and second, if you love the speakers, keep it simple and buy a 4ohm rated amplifier section. The point, it helps to keep followup comments germane to the OP. I can't be responsible in my replies for information you haven't shared. Solutions are easy if one matches their gear.
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post #12 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 04:43 AM
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My advice is to completely ignore the ohm rating. All amps and receivers can drive 4 ohm speakers. They have to deliver more current for a given SPL with 4 ohms, but the amps are also capable of delivering more current at 4 ohms.

When an amp or receiver states they don't support 4 ohms. What they really mean is they don't list specs at 4 ohms.

Also, impedance is not a constant value. It varies from requency to frequency and with the specific waveform being played. Many 8 ohm speakers actually have a lower impedance than 4 ohm speakers much of the time. Many of the cheap speakers made in china don't actually measure impedance. They just state the speakers are 8 ohms so they can sell more. Since you can't really accurately measure impedance, they can't be shown to be right or wrong. There's a reason why impedance values are always stated as 4,6, or 8 and not 6.7. It's because the value is a wide ranging ballpark estimate.

With 4 ohm speakers, as long as you don't crank the volume up to a point where the receiver gets really hot, you'll be OK. The same is true for 6 and 8 ohm speakers.

I've owned and currently own many 4 ohm speakers and I can't tell the difference between 4 and 8 ohm.

With that being said...
I would be more concered with your passive subwoofers. It takes more current to drive passive subs than tweeters. If you buy a lower powered receiver, I would consider getting a powered subwoofer to take some of the lower frequency load off the receiver.
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post #13 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

My advice is to completely ignore the ohm rating. All amps and receivers can drive 4 ohm speakers. They have to deliver more current for a given SPL with 4 ohms, but the amps are also capable of delivering more current at 4 ohms.
When an amp or receiver states they don't support 4 ohms. What they really mean is they don't list specs at 4 ohms.
Also, impedance is not a constant value. It varies from requency to frequency and with the specific waveform being played. Many 8 ohm speakers actually have a lower impedance than 4 ohm speakers much of the time. Many of the cheap speakers made in china don't actually measure impedance. They just state the speakers are 8 ohms so they can sell more. Since you can't really accurately measure impedance, they can't be shown to be right or wrong. There's a reason why impedance values are always stated as 4,6, or 8 and not 6.7. It's because the value is a wide ranging ballpark estimate.
With 4 ohm speakers, as long as you don't crank the volume up to a point where the receiver gets really hot, you'll be OK. The same is true for 6 and 8 ohm speakers.
I've owned and currently own many 4 ohm speakers and I can't tell the difference between 4 and 8 ohm.
With that being said...
I would be more concered with your passive subwoofers. It takes more current to drive passive subs than tweeters. If you buy a lower powered receiver, I would consider getting a powered subwoofer to take some of the lower frequency load off the receiver.

That's good to know. I knew speakers impedance changes freq to freq, I just didn't know many 8 ohm speakers would actually dip lower then that! My 4 ohm speakers drop I think to 3.7 ohms at the lowest. Sorry, I should have clarified more. The speakers don't have passive subs. The mid's are an 8" driver. Two of em with a tweet sandwiched in between. I do have a 15" sub with it's own 300 watt amp. I just don't play it with music.

Any other receiver recomendations? Finding the Denon 2112 is impossible here in Canada. I'll go check out the 3312 today and see if I can talk them down any from the $800 price they quoted me on the phone. Thanks everyone!
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post #14 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 08:52 AM
 
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That's good to know. I knew speakers impedance changes freq to freq, I just didn't know many 8 ohm speakers would actually dip lower then that!

Many speakers drop below 4ohms when 20-120Hz material is reproduced. A good deal of amplifier stress is removed when one uses a LPF to port this content over to your sub. Many speakers have a dip around the 5-7kHz range but it's momentary as opposed to constant.

Yes, I understand you don't like subs with your music so use my above as an FYI.

Another way to handle this problem is to get an AVR with a full set of pre-outs and then add an outboard Amp. Outboard Amps are good for something. tongue.gif

FWIW, some of the Harmon Kardon AVR's are suppose to be 4ohm friendly.
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post #15 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I just decided to have a look at costco's website. They have the Denon 2312 for $650, the Onkyo TX-NR515 for $530 or the Harmon 3600 for $600. So many options. Would my best bet to try and talk the 3312 down? Or get one of the other 2 from Costco? Any other options worth considering?
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post #16 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
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^^
go for the 3312 - coming from your NAD which was a pretty good AVR in its day, if you go budget, you may end up having buyer's remorse. what have you got to lose by shopping around to get a discount on the 3312? nothing & you may find a good deal.

why you're getting advice to stay cheap instead of shooting higher is a mystery to me confused.gif
candidly, I think the person has it backwards but that's me

if you follow that advice, you'll end up spending just as much or more (receiver & speakers). If you aim a little higher with the receiver, not only will the receiver better handle your current speakers but you'll also have additional power & capability to upgrade them later. if you intend to ditch the receiver in a yr, OK, but if you want to hang onto it for a few yrs, then make sure you are making a wise choice.

it's your money but I know what I'd do wink.gif
get the best I could afford so I wouldn't have any regrets smile.gif

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post #17 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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All three of the units are spec'd at 8ohms.
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Any other options worth considering?

As you already know, an 8 ohm referb'd Denon 3312Ci which comes with a full set of preouts for about $600.00 USD or a 2312Ci with an outboard Amp (Emotiva UPA-200 or Crown XLS 1500) attached to the A/B pre-out to power the mains?
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post #18 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 11:59 AM
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^^
slapping an Emotiva onto a lower powered receiver is not a bad option. as long as the lower cost model does everything you want & has close to same quality.

Steve
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post #19 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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candidly, I think the person has it backwards but that's me

Actually, many here would agree with you but that don't make me backwards. tongue.gif
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post #20 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 01:44 PM
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Actually, many here would agree with you but that don't make me backwards. tongue.gif

actually, you're right, how about "short-sighted" wink.giftongue.gif

we all have valid points of view, so no offense, I just happen to look at it differently than you because I look at the longer term (4-5 yrs or more) & I've never just gone the lowest cost route just to get by. a few times I have to settle for next best thing. but I buy the best I think I can afford even if it's a stretch.

in this case, if it were me, I'd consider 1) how much I really like the current speakers 2) how much can I stretch my budget for a new receiver 3) how long I want to keep it) which one best fits the power, features & performance I already have (no sense going "backwards" wink.gif) & 4) will I consider upgrading to new speakers before its time to swap the receiver again.

And I do not consider speakers disposable throwaways, which your posts seem to suggest you do. I bought Magnepans in '82, used them for 30 yrs because I like the sound characteristics of that design, finally upgraded to their 3rd top-of-the-line model in '02 when I went the HT route & made the final upgrade to their 2nd top-of-the-line model ~3 yrs later with a trade-in allowance. For me, the brand and the models I have are keepers. The only reason for my last upgrade was to get the last bit of increased soundstage depth & imaging just short of their top model. These will last me until they put me in the ground, which I hope won't be for another 20+ yrs eek.gif

I think the OP also places the same value on speakers since they, not the electronics, determine the sound. And this is why I said I thought you had it backwards wink.gif You advised him to just change speakers, then go for a cheap receiver. If the speakers are the most important thing that determines the sound, your way puts the emphasis on the wrong thing to change wink.gif

1) get the speakers that have the sound you like
2) get the best electronics u can afford that will drive them

that is the optimum way to shop for audio gear, my friend. and the vast majority of enthusiasts will agree with that POV

Steve
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post #21 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 02:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

actually, you're right, how about "short-sighted" wink.giftongue.gif

Nope. But I am nearsighted.

Quote:
we all have valid points of view, so no offense, I just happen to look at it differently than you because I look at the longer term (4-5 yrs or more) & I've never just gone the lowest cost route just to get by. a few times I have to settle for next best thing. but I buy the best I think I can afford even if it's a stretch.

And I support everybody having valid points of view and those who see life in different terms than I. As to going the lowest cost, one goes the route they can afford and if they can't afford the route, they go a different way. Tain't no thang and it's not a crime to do what works for an individual.

Quote:
And I do not consider speakers disposable throwaways, which your posts seem to suggest you do.

Nor do I but I do consider donating these sorts of items to the local hospice; secondhand store.

Quote:
I think the OP also places the same value on speakers since they, not the electronics, determine the sound. And this is why I said I thought you had it backwards wink.gif You advised him to just change speakers, then go for a cheap receiver. If the speakers are the most important thing that determines the sound, your way puts the emphasis on the wrong thing to change wink.gif

Considering the changes in speaker design that has taken place over the last twenty years and considering the budget mentioned, my advice was good advice. What my advice vs advice that works for him, only he can determine this but there's no reason for anybody to get their feathers ruffled over a conversation that revolves around a "What to do?" question.

Quote:
1) get the speakers that have the sound you like
2) get the best electronics u can afford that will drive them
that is the optimum way to shop for audio gear, my friend. and the vast majority of enthusiasts will agree with that POV

Where your above goes wrong is your choice of words and the assumption that my advice doesn't follow your recommendation as I posted my response to the OP and your comments don't include what I posted in reply to the OP's comment to me:

"Two points, you mentioned home theater, not listening to two channel music and second, if you love the speakers, keep it simple and buy a 4ohm rated amplifier section. The point, it helps to keep followup comments germane to the OP. I can't be responsible in my replies for information you haven't shared. Solutions are easy if one matches their gear."

My experience, it seems that all long term forum members want to do is, find reason to argue with another as opposed to working together to help with people's questions as I do my best to share insight with those asking questions and I do my best to distance my comments from long time forum members. Long term forum members seek me out to argue with me, I don't go looking for them and when one finds me with an argumentative attitude, I put them on ignore and then they can find someone else to argue with. In the simple, if one wants it to be, life is simple.

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post #22 of 34 Old 08-30-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Beeman, you are making assumptions. You've no idea how old my old speakers are. I think the kit is about 8 years or so old. Speaker tech has not changed in that time frame. No one here seems to be arguing. Your advice was terrible by the way. Scrap speakers and buy new speakers and spend way less on a receiver as half my budget had been eaten by speakers?

I pumped up the budget and picked up a Denon 3312. If it fails to drive my speakers, no big deal as it has pre outs, and the NAD has a 5.1 input. I also have a NAD 2200 2 channel power amp that I *might* be able to get working. (I had it for a few years but then unfortunately it stopped working.) I didn't look to close at why it quit working, could be an easy inexpensive fix. Or as others have mentioned, a new separate outboard amp.
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Beeman, you are making assumptions. You've no idea how old my old speakers are. I think the kit is about 8 years or so old. Speaker tech has not changed in that time frame. No one here seems to be arguing. Your advice was terrible by the way. Scrap speakers and buy new speakers and spend way less on a receiver as half my budget had been eaten by speakers? I pumped up the budget and picked up a Denon 3312. If it fails to drive my speakers, no big deal as it has pre outs, and the NAD has a 5.1 input. I also have a NAD 2200 2 channel power amp that I *might* be able to get working. (I had it for a few years but then unfortunately it stopped working.) I didn't look to close at why it quit working, could be an easy inexpensive fix. Or as others have mentioned, a new separate outboard amp.

You couldn't have said it any better smile.gif And congratulations on your purchase!

"...advice was terrible by the way"

Didn't make sense to me, either, considering your current gear. Not only do you end up with a crappier receiver, but you spend more total money doing it.

In the end, I think you made a wise decision and that's all that counts cool.gif

Maybe we'll both end up on an ignore list but that doesn't hurt my feelings wink.gif I just had to get involved & say something when I read that you should junk perfectly good speakers that you like just because they're 4 ohm & trade down on electronics rolleyes.gif And the irony is that the same person is in another thread extolling the virtues of Marantz's new flagship receiver that costs $1800. One has to wonder why a $500 receiver was good enough for you but not for him wink.gif If 8 ohm speakers are all you ever need, well he certainly didn't need that Marantz wink.gif Some people are interesting, aren't they?

Enjoy your new system smile.gif The Denon should serve you well with your speakers & last a good while.

Steve
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Beeman, you are making assumptions. You've no idea how old my old speakers are. I think the kit is about 8 years or so old. Speaker tech has not changed in that time frame. No one here seems to be arguing. Your advice was terrible by the way. Scrap speakers and buy new speakers and spend way less on a receiver as half my budget had been eaten by speakers?
I pumped up the budget and picked up a Denon 3312. If it fails to drive my speakers, no big deal as it has pre outs, and the NAD has a 5.1 input. I also have a NAD 2200 2 channel power amp that I *might* be able to get working. (I had it for a few years but then unfortunately it stopped working.) I didn't look to close at why it quit working, could be an easy inexpensive fix. Or as others have mentioned, a new separate outboard amp.

As I posted, my comments based on what you posted. when you posted: " I would however like to keep the budget around $500 CAD." to a thread titled: "Get rid of the old receiver, get a pre/pro or get an HDMI switch?"

Now you comment how you pumped up your budget and bought a Denon 3312. You asked a question and I gave my input constrained by your parameters. You moved the target and now I'm guilty of giving bad advice because you chose to increase your budget and mix 4ohms with 8ohms while I was thinking you were sincere in your question.

Let's see what I posted to you: "Another way to handle this problem is to get an AVR with a full set of pre-outs and then add an outboard Amp. Outboard Amps are good for something. tongue.gif"

And I posted in response to your request for more input:

"As you already know, an 8 ohm referb'd Denon 3312Ci which comes with a full set of preouts for about $600.00 USD or a 2312Ci with an outboard Amp (Emotiva UPA-200 or Crown XLS 1500) attached to the A/B pre-out to power the mains?"

And what did you post later as you were thoughtfully scolding me for my efforts to help you:

"I pumped up the budget and picked up a Denon 3312. If it fails to drive my speakers, no big deal as it has pre outs, and the NAD has a 5.1 input. I also have a NAD 2200 2 channel power amp that I *might* be able to get working. (I had it for a few years but then unfortunately it stopped working.) I didn't look to close at why it quit working, could be an easy inexpensive fix. Or as others have mentioned, a new separate outboard amp."

Which is exactly some of the advice I shared with you. So yes, I was one of those who mentioned a separate outboard Amp as a solution to your dilemma which means, since you went with my recommendations, my advice was spot on. And no, there's no need for further communication.

And for clarification purposes, I have a Marantz SR5007 and the reason it was not recommended was, delivered it cost $750.00 USD and you stated in your OP, a budget of ~$500.00 CAD.

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As I posted, my comments based on what you posted. Now you comment how you pumped up your budget. You asked a question, I gave my input. You moved the target and now I'm guilty of giving bad advice because you changed your budget.

Whether your advice is good or bad you always seem to be arguing with someone here rolleyes.gif. For some reason you seem to believe that all the advice that you dispense is the best advice offered.

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FWIW, pre-Audyssey Marantz units had the ability to have the speaker wire delays hand configured because Marantz engineers thought it was a consequential part of the setup/configuration process.
Audyssey's FAQ section won't tell you this.
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Any luck finding documentation on the Marantz units that had the ability to have the speaker wire length delays hand configured wink.gif? What is the Audyssey FAQ not telling us?

To the OP I think the 3312 will be an excellent choice smile.gif.

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Any luck finding documentation on the Marantz units that had the ability to have the speaker wire length delays hand configured wink.gif?

That question was already dealt with and we both know it. And yes, just like you here, it's the same group who likes to find reason to seek out others to argue with and disparage as I do my level headed best to distance myself from those who like to find reason to do both.

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That question was already dealt with and we both know it. And yes, just like you here, it's the same group who likes to find reason to find others to argue with as I do my best to distance myself from those who like to find reason to argue.

If the question was already dealt with I did not know that. So you are wrong in that "we both" do not know that. My reason for showing that previous post is to show that your input is not always very accurate. As I said there is always some type of conflict in your posts. I guess you see those that are attempting to correct your misguided input or advice as arguing. Most here will see through the smoke screen wink.gif.

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If the question was already dealt with I did not know that. So you are wrong in that "we both" do not know that. My reason for showing that previous post is to show that your input is not always very accurate. As I said there is always some type of conflict in your posts. I guess you see those that are attempting to correct your misguided input or advice as arguing. Most here will see through the smoke screen wink.gif.
Bill

If you had stuck with the thread, you would have. Again, as you're doing now, you're looking for an argument as the information is accurate. I stated for the record I recently gave the unit away and I also stated I don't remember which Marantz SR6XXX unit it was so I don't know which manual to download. I can see many here like to argue. It's okay. Have at it. Be disruptive and argue away. Please, leave me out of this need to argue and disparage.

If you read through this thread, you'll see that I did mention purchasing a unit with pre-outs and I did mention the unit the OP purchased and I did mention outboard Amps as a solution and then all of a sudden, my good advice got turned into bad advice, despite the OP following up on many of my suggestions.

Please, end this need to argue with me and put me on ignore. That would be kind of you.

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Quote:
If you had stuck with the thread, you would have.

I just looked at the AV7005 thread. There is no explanation or backing up of your claim that an older Marantz had the capability to have the speaker wire delays hand configured. You might call it arguing but I'm just asking that you back up what you claim. Otherwise your claims are unfounded and have no validity.
Quote:
Again, as you're doing now, you're looking for an argument as the information is accurate.

If it is accurate then prove it,
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I stated for the record I recently gave the unit away and I also stated I don't remember which Marantz SR6XXX unit it was so I don't know which manual to download.

Well it shouldn't be that hard as I'm sure there aren't that many Marantz SR6XXX manuals to look at.
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I can see many here like to argue. It's okay. Have at it. Be disruptive and argue away. Please, leave me out of the need to argue and disparage.

Once again just because someone asks for proof of statements made is not arguing IMO. If what you say is accurate I would think you would want to show that it is accurate by providing factual information.
Quote:
If you read through this thread, you'll see that I did mention purchasing a unit with pre-outs and I did mention the unit the OP purchased and I did mention outboard Amps as a solution and then all of a sudden, my good advice got turned into bad advice, despite the OP following up on many of my suggestions.

You are forgetting this insightful advice. In that advice I see no mention of preouts or an external amp. Just so you know most cheap AVRs do not have preouts. Oh so humble wink.gif.
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In my not so humble opinion, the OP would be better served by ditching the 4ohm speakers, buy an 8ohm factory refurbished AVR on the cheap and a replacement pair of Polk Audio or Pioneer 8ohm speakers, all within the stated $500.00 budget and be done with it; keep it simple.

Bill

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You are forgetting this insightful advice. In that advice I see no mention of preouts or an external amp. Just so you know most cheap AVRs do not have preouts. Oh so humble wink.gif.

And based on the OP's OP, he was given good advice. As to AVR's, pre-outs and outboard Amps, I see you've not read the thread nor what I posted. The funny thing, all that I posted is right up above for you, the OP and anybody else to read and yet, you and the OP claim I didn't post what I posted. That's rich.

Yes, you're being argumentative and yes, you're doing so without reading the thread. A suggestion, please read the thread and from here, there's no point in our interacting anymore as I don't wish to get dragged into your need to argue.

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