Receiver help, may need a new one - AVS Forum
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Well my Onkyo TX-SR803 (Purchased several years ago display item) is starting to give me issues. It is randomly giving me picture but no sound. Its happening more frequently and I have read this is probably the begining of the end for it. Its very frustrating as you can imagine.

So now I am unexpectedly in the market to replace it I am looking to spend around $500-600, but am not sure what is the most bang for my limited setup. I dont need the best but if there is a deal to be had then so be it. (No 3D needed, not a fan)

I have a humble 3.1 setup currently but would like to eventually get some surrounds down the road. I am running 3 Paradigm 330 for my center and fronts, and I have a HSU VTF-2. Components I have are: Direct TV Receiver, Panny Bluray, Xbox360, Apple TV all via HDMI & a Wii via component (this can go if need be)



Here a couple receivers I have been considering, any thoughts would be great. Please feel free to suggest a better option.

Pioneer VSX-1122-K
Pioneer Elite VSX-51

Denon AVR-1913
Denon AVR-1713

Marantz NR1603 (Space is not an issue but I like the idea)
Marantz NR1403



Thanks,
BRIAN
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone... Please!?!?
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:23 AM
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Only the Marantz and Denon models will be able to EQ the subwoofer. Among the Denon and Marantz models, the 1913, 1403, and 1603 all use the same version of Audyssey MultEQ, the 1403 being the only non-networking model while the 1713 uses the more advanced version of MultEQ XT (ie. somewhat better audio fidelity) but is only 5.1. Select the model that best meets your budget/feature/input/output requirements.

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Old 08-30-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, I think i am leaning more towards the Denon but love the looks of the Marantz.
I know it should be about looks but if it can deliver what I need and still look good why not.

I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-1713... anything else in this range worth looking at?


Thanks,
BRIAN
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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TTT
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:23 PM
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I am down to the same two choices - Denon AVR-1713/1913 or Marantz NR-1603. I am leaning toward Denon due to price and wattage/speaker. Any thoughts - mainly from an audio quality perspective?
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:51 PM
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The 1713 should sound a little better because of the MultEQ XT. If you've only got a 5.1 setup I'd go for that one.


If you're willing to spend up to $600 go for a Denon 3312
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR3312CI/DENON-AVR-3312CI-7.2-Integrated-Network-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I am still liking the NR1603 but not sure I can justify the extra money... Will the 1713 sound much better?
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:30 AM
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Going from MultEQ to XT, some hear a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity, while others not as much, although can depend on the quality of the speakers. Either is good choice .... if the AVR will be in full view every time you use it (ie. not in a closet), then it would seem you like the looks of the 1603 better so pony up the extra money and then no regrets. smile.gif

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Old 09-07-2012, 11:07 AM
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sorry if this is a stupid question...

if the source audio coming into the 1713 is 7.1, it will properly just output the 5.1 speakers right?
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince217 View Post

sorry if this is a stupid question...
if the source audio coming into the 1713 is 7.1, it will properly just output the 5.1 speakers right?

My understanding, pretty much, everything comes in 5.1 and is then uprez'd to 7.1. So yes, 5.1/7.1, you're good to go with no loss in sound quality. If the budget can swing it, my recommendation is a Marantz, SR5007 for it's full set of pre-outs that, should you decide to, allows for the later addition of an outboard Amp.

I looked at the AVR1713 for a delivered price of $400.00 but in the end, the more expensive SR5007 won out for the featured full set of pre-outs. In the end, it's all about what makes you all warm and fuzzy inside.

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Old 09-07-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

My understanding, pretty much, everything comes in 5.1 and then uprez'd to 7.1. So yes, 5.1, you're good to go with loss of sound quality. If the budget can swing it, my recommendation is a Marantz, Marantz, SR5007 for it's full set of pre-outs that allows for the addition of an outboard Amp should you later decide you want to add one.
I looked at the AVR1713 for a delivered price of $400.00 but in the end, the more expensive SR5007 won out.
-

There is a significant and rapidly growing set of content in 7.1. The AVR will combine channels where necessary to create 5.1 if that's your output requirement.

As mentioned above, the Denon will have the higher level of Audyssey compared to the 1603 and should have better in room SQ.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you feel the Marantz 1603 and its 50w will be enough for my speaker setup?
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:43 AM
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With those speakers rated at 94db @ 8-ohm and crossed over at likely 80hz or 100hz, the 1603 should have plenty of power. smile.gif

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

Do you feel the Marantz 1603 and its 50w will be enough for my speaker setup?

In the simple, maybe, but I doubt it. Yet in the same simple vein, I don't think your choice of speakers is a good choice for home theater listening. I would say those speakers are perfectly fine for television viewing and dinner conversation but if you want to rock the movie sound track, you're going need a lot more speaker and amplification.

Working with you, if getting the NR1603, I'd add some sort of outboard Amp to drive your mains such as a UPA-200. Yes, I understand that in my recommendation, I'm recommending an Amp that "potentially" has more power then your speakers are designed to handle but doing so gives your system headroom for peak demand situations. OTOH, yes, maxing out the Amp's volume control can blow the speakers but cranking the Amp close to the speaker's limit, won't cause the speakers harm. A car can do a hundred and twenty but that doesn't mean you have to kill yourself and it's sure nice to have enough power to pass that semi in front of you. Same thing, don't overdrive the speakers and you'll have plenty of peak power for those explosions. biggrin.gif

This on your speakers:

Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 120 watts
Maximum Input Power† 100 watts

† With typical program source, provided the amplifier clips
no more than 10% of the time.


Working with your existing posted situation and information, overall, your speakers, combined with the NR1603 and an Emotiva, UPA-200 would be an excellent match; very satisfying. If you don't add an outboard Amp for the mains, I think you'll be disappointed when listening to a movie sound track. Hope the above helps give you the insight you're looking for.

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Old 09-08-2012, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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ok thanks for the quick responses. I agree that my setup is not great for HT application, however it is in my living room for mainly like you said tv, some movies and some music. I would love to have a dedicated HT but that is not the case at this time.

That being said I am starting to lean towards the Denon 1913 for the simple fact I think its more bang for my buck. Only question I have now is should I go 1913 or up a step to the 2113 or snag up a discounted 2112?

Any thoughts?

How do you think a 2112 compares to the newer 1913 and 2113, it can be had at a pretty good price these days?

Sorry for being so wishy washy about this, just trying to make a smart purchase.


Thanks,
BRIAN
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

Sorry for being so wishy washy about this, just trying to make a smart purchase.

I understand as we're all brothers in this pursuit. My simple way of thinking is, money and the choices before us for the price. What do I think of your added AVR choices? For your speakers, the NR1603 and an Emotiva, UPA-200 are an excellent match. I try to stay focused as your suggestions are all good suggestions, but no full set of pre-outs and no outboard Amp to drive your speakers with. Once you stray from the original recommendation, the waters become a murky path of price and amplifier output.

In the simple, the basic wants or needs are enough power to keep you happy when watching an action movie and Audyssey MultiEQ XT to get the best out of the speakers you already have. If you want more, you have to spend more. Our AVR choice was a Marantz, SR5007 at a delivered price of $750.00.

A bit more complexed is your speaker sensitivity in that it's an anechoic chamber reading, not a reading, twelve feet at the main listening position in an open room. Your sensitivity is more likely 80dB 1w/4m as opposed to the stated sensitivity of 94dB 1w/1m. Our speakers are rated at 100dB, 1w/1m but I rate them at a more accurate sensitivity rating of, at listening position, 86dB, 1w/4m. A total game changer and 50w, definitely won't get you there; not being happy with the results. Next is the AVR, once you start powering more than two speakers, the stated power rating falls like a stone. A separate outboard Amp immediately cures this problem.

Next, you're up against headroom or the power needed between low whispering conversation, cars blowing up and big gun artillery fire. It's like putting the metal to the floor with the intent of passing a semi while going uphill in a three cylinder. Not a good idea. But have a well tuned V-8 and now you're talking. tongue.gif

If my recommendation is too fiscally steep, first get the NR1603 and later add the outboard, UPA-200, Amp. Either which way, based on your current speaker choice, the NR1603 is an excellent AVR match. In the end, I encourage everybody to choose whatever it is that makes them all warm and fuzzy inside.

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Old 09-08-2012, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I have a lot to learn...

I am not sure i want to got he route of an additional component like an amp but will start looking into it.
Do you think the Marantz is truly a better option then the Denons mentioned? If I end up not getting an amp will any of these receivers deliver what I need alone?
I have been pretty satisfied with my Onkyo until the resent issues, so was thing of just swapping and maybe adding some surround speakers.

Can you recommend some affordable surrounds?



Thanks,
BRIAN
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

ok thanks for the quick responses. I agree that my setup is not great for HT application, however it is in my living room for mainly like you said tv, some movies and some music. I would love to have a dedicated HT but that is not the case at this time.
That being said I am starting to lean towards the Denon 1913 for the simple fact I think its more bang for my buck. Only question I have now is should I go 1913 or up a step to the 2113 or snag up a discounted 2112?
Any thoughts?
How do you think a 2112 compares to the newer 1913 and 2113, it can be had at a pretty good price these days?
Sorry for being so wishy washy about this, just trying to make a smart purchase.
Thanks,
BRIAN

The 2112CI on clearance is likely the best bang for your buck, especially over the 1913. The 2113CI offers the ability to play Airplay to Zone 2 independent from the main zone, so if not an issue then go for the 2112CI which would also be the better buy over the 1603 as well as it offers the higher version of Audyssey MultEQ XT vice only MultEQ on the 1603.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

Wow, I have a lot to learn...
I am not sure i want to got he route of an additional component like an amp but will start looking into it.
Do you think the Marantz is truly a better option then the Denons mentioned? If I end up not getting an amp will any of these receivers deliver what I need alone?
Thanks,
BRIAN

There's no reason to have to consider adding an additional amp.

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Old 09-08-2012, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

I am not sure i want to got he route of an additional component like an amp but will start looking into it.

Why not? Using the speakers you have, I ask, you do want a better home theater experience? And there's lots of good reasons to add an outboard Amp. These reasons range from taking a load off the AVR amp to drive the mains so the Amp can better drive the other speakers, to personal preference and how hard one wants to drive their current set of speakers if the current AVR won't get the job done.

Quote:
Do you think the Marantz is truly a better option then the Denons mentioned? If I end up not getting an amp will any of these receivers deliver what I need alone?

I'm a fan of both Denon and Marantz. You asked, if the NR1603 and it's 50w would mate up with your speakers. I don't think it will. I don't know what the amplifier output is for each AVR you listed as it varies, depending on the load you put on it. A separate Amp doesn't suffer from this problem in the same fashion an AVR does. You have a budget of $500.00 to $600.00 which is enough for both AVR and an outboard Amp like the Emotiva UPA-200. You can always buy just the AVR and decide to add an outboard Amp at a later time and date if you think the AVR is underpowered.

Quote:
I have been pretty satisfied with my Onkyo until the resent issues, so was thing of just swapping and maybe adding some surround speakers.

As I posted earlier, in the final, I always recommend that one goes with what makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Quote:
Can you recommend some affordable surrounds?

Depends on your surround speaker budget and what you consider affordable. Pioneer and Polk Audio are good starting points. After you set a budget, give Mike with AVS a call to see what he can hook you up with, or simply put Polk Audio surrounds into your search engine and checkout what comes up.

FWIW, my answers are intentionally vague or incomplete as for every recommendation, there's ten or more additional suggestions. The point, one needs to first decide, with a degree of certainty, what they have for a budget and what features/power, do they want in an AVR; budget being the primary consideration and going from there.

As an example, I posted a solution that doesn't work for you. You don't want an outboard Amp. Well, how much power do you want/need? How loud do you like it? Speakers being the final consideration, will your speakers take you where you want to go? If you blow your budget on an underpowered AVR, then you're not going be happy. If you buy an AVR with pre-outs for the mains, you can't jack the power up to the speakers but you can buy an Amp and remember, you don't want to fry the little critters. A flow chart to picking an AVR is much like a gated maze you can never get out of, until you've made the purchase and finished dealing with any disappointment that comes along. Then and only then does the lock to the maze fall off the gate. biggrin.gif

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Old 09-10-2012, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I decided to go to go look at a Marantz NR1403 Saturday with intent to bring it home. However I ended up bringing home a NR1602 instead. I really liked the idea of the video up-conversion so everything runs through same input on TV, I also like the flexibility of having 7.1 down the road. I actually like the look of the older model better too.

I got it setup and I am blown away by the styling, build quality, and most of all sound. I don’t know if it’s just new receiver placebo effect or the Audyssey MultEQ calibration is just that good. But I swear it sounds so much better than my old Onkyo setup. Either way it is making my Paradigm speakers sing and I have that warm fuzzy feeling!

Thanks again for the help deciding which way to go.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTRAIN View Post

Either way it is making my Paradigm speakers sing and I have that warm fuzzy feeling!

Thanks again for the help deciding which way to go.

..................................biggrin.gif
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:46 PM
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Great thread as I'm stuck between the Marantz 1403 and the Denon 1713.

My system:
Panny 3D Display
5.1 In-wall Speakers(i'm choosing between Polk and Triad)
DVR
3D Blue Ray
Sonos Connect
AppleTV

My room is 13x13, so the extra power of the Denon is not much of an issue.

My main question is given that I will be accessing streaming music via Sonos and airplay, do I really need a networked receiver? The size of the Marantz definitely appeals to me.

Thanks in advance
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