What temperature is bad for a receiver? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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What temperature is "too hot" for a receiver to run at? What temperature should it be kept under for typical movie-watching? My Denon 3312ci runs approximately 40 C, or 104 F. Hot to touch, doesn't burn you or anything. Like as hot as asphault outside gets in the sun in the summer. Should I get a fan for it?
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post #2 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 01:47 PM
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That is fine. Doesn't hurt to get a fan. Keeping it cooler helps longevity. I couldn't tell you what is bad as I've always had active cooling, especially my onkyo receivers. I've had denon and Sony get hot on me after long listening sessions, but nothing to sweat about. biggrin.gif

butter and jelly please.
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post #3 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

What temperature is "too hot" for a receiver to run at? What temperature should it be kept under for typical movie-watching? My Denon 3312ci runs approximately 40 C, or 104 F. Hot to touch, doesn't burn you or anything. Like as hot as asphault outside gets in the sun in the summer. Should I get a fan for it?

I'm not a good judge of what is considered hot. I set our hot tub at 103F (104F is too hot) and bacteria is killed at +165F. And yes, some times higher temperatures are required but generally the FDA sets food trays at a minimum of 140F to stop the little critters from multiplying.

IIRC, fans are usually controlled by high/low temperature limit switches which come on around 87F and shuts off about 84F and most IC's are consumer temp spec at about ~100F. Others are more than welcome to correct any errors and omissions as what I'm posting is generalized information. One can go from the above as to deciding what is hot or not. Here's the IC standards on temperature.

http://www.interfacebus.com/Logic_Prefix_Temp_Range.html

"Commercial upper limit; +158oF"

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post #4 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So looks like it being only 100 something is fine, but i mean for 15 bucks i can get a fan so mideswell right..
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post #5 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:37 PM
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40 degC is no problem. Body temperature is about 37 degC, room temp is around 25 - 27 degC. Consumer ambient temp range for electronic components is specified as 0 to 70 degC (32 to 158 degF)*. That is ambient at the component; bear in mind the temp inside the box is going to be a little hotter than outside. My (and many others') rule of thumb has been for ages that if it is too hot to hold your hand on it you need more airflow.

HTH - Don

* Industrial is -40 to 85 degC, military is -55 to +125 degC (up to 140 degC for some applications, and space qual parts are usually industrial).

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post #6 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

So looks like it being only 100 something is fine, but i mean for 15 bucks i can get a fan so mideswell right..

A toy well worth investing in, is an IR thermometer and it can go into the audio tool kit, right next to the SPL meter and the many rolls of CL2 cable we're all so quick to collect.

.............biggrin.gif

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post #7 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:41 PM
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^ The little IR sensors are cool and I really should have one (I just borrow from work), but for most people it will get much less use than an SPL meter, and the SPL meter itself gets little use. So, while I agree it is nice to have, for the vast majority of folk I would say just feel it and spend the savings on a fan and/or more music/movies.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #8 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 02:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

^ The little IR sensors are cool and I really should have one (I just borrow from work), but for most people it will get much less use than an SPL meter, and the SPL meter itself gets little use. So, while I agree it is nice to have, for the vast majority of folk I would say just feel it and spend the savings on a fan and/or more music/movies.

Sorry, you know the rules, the number of toys, matters. tongue.gif

Besides, its fun to pull out and use to measure the temperature of heater/AC vents, the tarmac outside, the snow on the front lawn in the morning, the insides of a child's mouth, rooftop temperatures, auto engine heater hose temperatures, etc, etc, etc. And women always love it when their man points an IR thermometer in their direction. eek.gif You know, anything one thinks, at random, incongruent times in their life, needs to have the temperature checked up on.

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post #9 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A toy well worth investing in, is an IR thermometer and it can go into the audio tool kit, right next to the SPL meter and the many rolls of CL2 cable we're all so quick to collect.
.............biggrin.gif
-

yeah those are pretty fun to play around with :P

Do you know any good sites to buy ac fans? i try looking around for cheap ones but only can find like industrial 100 CFM fans that are like 30 bucks. I just want like a cheap quiet fan like typical computer case fans, but ac instead of dc.
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post #10 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Sorry, you know the rules, the number of toys, matters. tongue.gif
Besides, its fun to pull out and use to measure the temperature of heater/AC vents, the tarmac outside, the snow on the front lawn in the morning, the insides of a child's mouth, rooftop temperatures, auto engine heater hose temperatures, etc, etc, etc. And women always love it when their man points an IR thermometer in their direction. eek.gif You know, anything one thinks, at random, incongruent times in their life, needs to have the temperature checked up on.
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What range do you find is optimal ha ha cool.gif
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post #11 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

What range do you find is optimal ha ha cool.gif

biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 05:13 PM
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I own an ONKYO PR-SC5508 and it ran a bit hot. I heard about the Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 12CM AF0007 on AVS from others who were having heat issues and wanting to dissipate the heat. I orderd it from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Mobile-External-Cooling-AF0007/dp/B002OJN250/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346630082&sr=8-1&keywords=thermaltake+mobile+fan+12+external+usb+cooling+fan+12cm+af0007

I removed the metal stand hooked it up to the USB port on the back of my pre-pro, adjusted the speed to the lowest setting (that was all the venting I needed and it is VERY quiet at this setting! If you need more fan you can adjust the speed higher) and laid it flat on top of the pre-pro over the venting grill so that it is sucking air from inside the pre-pro and venting it out the top = cool air is flowing from the bottom (underneath) the pre-pro, through the ciructry and the hot air is being exhausted/sucked out from the top.

Before I installed the Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 12CM AF0007, after several hours my ONKYO was VERY warn, almost hot to the touch. Now ... after 5 - 6 hours of continuous use: VERY COOL, hardly warm at all, and this was on the fan's LOWEST setting!

Needless to say the Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 12CM AF0007 was an exceptional investment. Reasonably priced (Less than $17 delivered!), very quiet, USB powered and it does an outstanding job of keeping my pre-pro cool as a cucumber!

If you or anyone needs an outstanding cooling solution that does everything you want it to and won't break the bank, this is it.
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post #13 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

What temperature is "too hot" for a receiver to run at? What temperature should it be kept under for typical movie-watching? My Denon 3312ci runs approximately 40 C, or 104 F. Hot to touch, doesn't burn you or anything. Like as hot as asphault outside gets in the sun in the summer. Should I get a fan for it?

It's not a bad idea to take a look at the load the Denon has as it's not uncommon for a Denon to run warm only. So do you know what the ohm rating is of all the speakers you have connected to the Denon? Also, how loud do you prefer when listening, or what volume number? And what is the size of your room? Higher heat over time can wear out electronics, so a fan never hurts!
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post #14 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 05:42 PM
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Denon, Onkyo/Integra, Pioneer, Harman/Kardon all recommend a minimum of 4-6" free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover....
Some AVR brands such as Onkyo/Integra and Harman/Kardon bias their output stages on the higher side to eliminate X-over notch distortion which simply means that the output devices are always partially ON so they give off more heat even when idling or playing @ lower levels.

Unfortunately many users overlook this crucial spec of free-air clearance when installing their AVR, plus many of the home entertainment furniture racks lack adequate clearance as well... rolleyes.gif

Keeping the AVR @ a lower temperature will assure longer and better reliability in the long run...
That being said some have mentioned @ what temperature is the max..
The AVR's internal temperature protection circuitry is usually set @ about 85 degrees C which is 185 degrees F...
Keep in mind that this setting is inside the chassis so actual temperature measured outside on the top cover can/will be significantly less..

Other factors influencing the AVR's operating temperature are:
a. Room size
b. Loudspeaker specs for impedance and sensitivity
c. Source material specs, for compression and dynamic range
d. Average volume level setting and listening levels
e. Price class of AVR and amount of component overdesign

Just my $0.02.. wink.gif
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post #15 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 05:52 PM
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My 3312 sitting on the top shelf isn't driving any speakers (either using TV out or pre-out) and is only barely warm in a non-air con'ed room in Canada.

See also this where I made the point about surface temp. and that PC can run >50C internally.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420851/how-much-ventilation-room-is-needed

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post #16 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

It's not a bad idea to take a look at the load the Denon has as it's not uncommon for a Denon to run warm only. So do you know what the ohm rating is of all the speakers you have connected to the Denon? Also, how loud do you prefer when listening, or what volume number? And what is the size of your room? Higher heat over time can wear out electronics, so a fan never hurts!

rooms not that big, like 11x11 but it has an attached kitchen sorta so open side wall. even at low volumes it feels warm to touch, but usually watch movies at like -20.

So is it better to put the fan on top of the unit going out, or on the back going out?
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post #17 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 06:21 PM
 
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It sounds like your speakers may be 4 ohm, though that's just a guess. A Denon 3312 should not get that hot in your application, is it sitting in a small shelf or sealed cabinet?

As for fan placement, I would try to locate the fan where the Denon gets hottest, it is sometimes over top of the HDMI board, or near the back top of the unit. I'd place the fan on top sucking air out. I have 2 fans placed this way on my Onkyo 876, one of the hot running ones, and it's almost 4 years old now with no issues. It has its own internal temp sensor and never gets hotter than 37c. The top of the AVR is moderately warm only, though my speakers are 8 ohm rated and the Onkyo sits in an open rack.

Hope this helps!
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post #18 of 60 Old 09-02-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

It sounds like your speakers may be 4 ohm, though that's just a guess. A Denon 3312 should not get that hot in your application, is it sitting in a small shelf or sealed cabinet?
As for fan placement, I would try to locate the fan where the Denon gets hottest, it is sometimes over top of the HDMI board, or near the back top of the unit. I'd place the fan on top sucking air out. I have 2 fans placed this way on my Onkyo 876, one of the hot running ones, and it's almost 4 years old now with no issues. It has its own internal temp sensor and never gets hotter than 37c. The top of the AVR is moderately warm only, though my speakers are 8 ohm rated and the Onkyo sits in an open rack.
Hope this helps!

I have a polk audio LSim 704c, and rt25i's as fronts and rears. its on a glass shelf, only like an inch of space above it though
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post #19 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 06:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

I have a polk audio LSim 704c, and rt25i's as fronts and rears. its on a glass shelf, only like an inch of space above it though

Problem, glass is well known for holding and radiating heat. If you have a glass shelf above or below the receiver, the glass will heat up and radiate heat back into the unit. What's the temperature of the glass shelves? Sounds like there's a serious issue with both the choice of shelving material and ventilation clearance considerations.
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post #20 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 08:01 AM
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For better airflow and control than some of the laptop coolers, a temperature controlled fan can be assembled around $50. The fan linked below is quieter than the ones typically used in the laptop coolers and also includes a thermal controller to automate the fan. The thermal controller is set to switch on at 87 degree F., so the fan doesn't operate when the amp isn't running hard - a nice feature when even a low noise unit might be audible. Using a separate power supply rather than the USB allows the fan to continue to run after the AVR or amp is turned off.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XISTXM/ref=oh_o02_s00_i02_details
http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Thermal-Fan-Controller-Rev/dp/B0085EHCDQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346684353&sr=1-2&keywords=b0085ehcdq
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MGG6SC/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details

The thermal controller is just a bit bigger than a matchbook and supports a second fan. Everything is simple plug and play - longer to take out of the boxes than to assemble.
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post #21 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Problem, glass is well known for holding and radiating heat. If you have a glass shelf above or below the receiver, the glass will heat up and radiate heat back into the unit. What's the temperature of the glass shelves? Sounds like there's a serious issue with both the choice of shelving material and ventilation clearance considerations.

They're warm, there's a DVR above it too on the glass above it. I don't really know the temperature, but I would guess around 100F.
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post #22 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 09:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

They're warm, there's a DVR above it too on the glass above it. I don't really know the temperature, but I would guess around 100F.

Just saying, for the purpose of temperature control and ventilation, your situation is not sounding good with glass shelves, limited ventilation clearance and heat producing equipment above.
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post #23 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Just saying, for the purpose of temperature control and ventilation, your situation is not sounding good with glass shelves, limited ventilation clearance and heat producing equipment above.

you don't think adding fans will help?
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post #24 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 10:23 AM
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Relocating the AVR to a more open shelf would be ideal, as noted, you should have at least 3-4" clearance; however, if that's not possible then adding a couple of fans to exhaust the air will certainly help. Note most of the heat will be coming from the left rear side of the AVR as that is where the video card is located.

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post #25 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

you don't think adding fans will help?

They might. But your conditions seem to be more problematic as opposed to the need for the addition of fans. My opinion, sight unseen, it seems fans are needed because of placement issues. I hate it when that happens. tongue.gif For better clearance ventilation, is there anything you can do to relocate your gear on the rack you have?
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post #26 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

They might. But your conditions seem to be more problematic as opposed to the need for the addition of fans. My opinion, sight unseen, it seems fans are needed because of placement issues. I hate it when that happens. tongue.gif For better clearance ventilation, is there anything you can do to relocate your gear on the rack you have?

nope
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post #27 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Relocating the AVR to a more open shelf would be ideal, as noted, you should have at least 3-4" clearance; however, if that's not possible then adding a couple of fans to exhaust the air will certainly help. Note most of the heat will be coming from the left rear side of the AVR as that is where the video card is located.

if look at the front of the avr, is it to my left? that side?
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post #28 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 11:12 AM
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Yes .. facing the front of the AVR ... the left rear side.

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post #29 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 12:34 PM
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"You've Got Mail" I PM'd you.
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post #30 of 60 Old 09-03-2012, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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i just put a normal window fan on the ground facing the front of the avr, watched a 2 hour movie and the receiver is completely cool over the whole top. So i'll go out and get a usb fan or two and set them up and it should be perfect
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