The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-61/-63 Owners Forum - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 877 Old 10-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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anyone having pq issues with their sc61? I've had mine since about last February. recently I had issues with blurring pictures during motion, such as sports, and especially on things such as espn ticker on the bottom of the screen. Only seems to be an issue while watching my directv. not with blu Ray. Figured it was the DTV box, but recently I upgraded to a genie box and problem still there. I changed hdmi cords, and inputs. didn't help. I then hooked my DTV box directly to my tv, and blurring was gone. This wasn't always an issue so I'm kinda stumped.
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post #632 of 877 Old 10-22-2013, 06:11 AM
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thanks for the extensive reply however, I like ext.stereo, music all around ...like said, its personal preference.

i did do the full mcacc on 2 mem slots with proper mic placement, switching between them and the slots with my mods has minimal effect on the "music bass"
and no, bass doesnt sound least along the walls, it hasnt happened to me, now or before with an onkyo in another house with different room layouts and sitting position.
i get dull "music bass" @ listening location, if i stand up it gets better.

i did play with the phase and it doesnt do much
what did help:
turning off Standing wave
setting crossover to 100
using the iphone app to change emphasis equalizer and boosted bass there

and well, it has more bass in music but so does everything else frown.gif
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post #633 of 877 Old 10-22-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post

i get dull "music bass" @ listening location, if i stand up it gets better.

That's room nodes (nulls & peaks) at work, a perfect example of what I was driving at. You are sitting in a bass null for the frequencies that most of us identify as bass & warmth in music, typically 60, 120, and even 250 Hz ranges smile.gif without actual room measurements in your room though it's a guess. but an educated guess smile.gif nulls & peaks come from standing waves. bass wavelengths are quite large and due to that, the room dimensions determine if each frequency range reinforces or cancels out as the reflected waves off the back, sides, ceiling hit the direct waves. It's all the physics of waves, like ripples on the water smile.gif

You could try manually increasing the 63, 125 and possibly 250 Hz frequencies in MCACC but for true bass nulls, no amount of boosting the power to those frequencies is going to completely make the null go away....it's ALL due to room dimensions and your listening position relative to those dimensions

My advice is to try moving your couch/seat a little forward or back, even as little as 6"-12" can make a difference in bass response, it all depends. If there is a big enough difference in bass output when you sit down and stand up, you just may be unlucky enough to be sitting in nulls from 2 or all 3 dimensions, side to side, front to back, and ceiling to floor. this is what I was trying to suggest, read a little basics on room acoustics and you may also benefit a lot from putting several bass traps in the corners. at least try moving your seat smile.gif I have found that in my room, moving the subwoofer EQ mic (sub has EQ'r built-in) just a mere 6" or so makes a visible difference in what frequencies have dips and peaks. All room have nulls, the trick is to position your sub & yourself to avoid most of them.

NO amount of MCACC tweaking can compensate for nulls. you would need a dedicated subwoofer EQ'r to attempt to smooth out the bass response, which the current version of MCACC doesn't include.
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Originally Posted by bulls View Post

turning off Standing wave, setting crossover to 100, using the iphone app to change emphasis equalizer and boosted bass there...and well, it has more bass in music but so does everything else frown.gif

Increasing the crossover so that more bass freq's come from your sub instead of your speakers probably 1) improved overall bass output and 2) slightly changed where bass standing waves are producing nulls.

the Standing Wave Filter is supposed to help compensate in 3 frequencies identified by the receiver during your Full MCACC calibration. But they work on overall combined bass from the speakers & sub, not just the sub by itself, so by making the sub do more of the bass work, you may be helping the overall bass output and response.

You're on the right track, noting what makes a difference. My suggestion at this point is to try moving your seat a bit, forward or back, side to side and listen for an increase in perceived bass. if you do get better bass but can't really live with moving the seat, then move the subwoofer itself a bit, side to side, out further from the wall, or back toward it. if it's right in the cornet, try moving it out of the corner if possible. moving the sub has the same effect as moving the seat - moving the dimensions where standing waves intersect and make nulls.

In many articles, finding the best position for a sub is called the sub crawl wink.gif you start by putting the sub where your seat is. then play a bass track or even better, bass test tones (found free online) and then "crawl" around the sides of the room (front wall, side walls, corners, back wall) and listen to where overall bass sounds loudest. The spots where you hear the loudest bass, THOSE spots are the best places you should place the sub. If it's not a good spot due to looks, room design, WAF wink.gif then put the sub in the general vicinity of that spot. Room measurements are much better of course, but the typical person may not have the patience, desire, time, knowledge or PC skills to go that far. The sub crawl is a good alternative smile.gif

There you go...bass enhancement 101 smile.gif

MCACC and other room correction systems won't do it all, can't do it all, even the most tauted Audyssey Multi32 XT with sub EQ can't do it all. You also have to do basic room optimization & even room treatment with bass traps to get the best from your system. That's the way it is. Some don't or can't (WAF, SAF) put room treatments in a living room, but you can get better bass by just paying attention to some basic acoustics.

Try it..I would be interested in reading what you find out.
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post #634 of 877 Old 10-22-2013, 08:10 AM
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and while you like Extended Stereo, as I said, having bass coming from all 5 or 7 speakers was probably aggravating your standing wave null issue, to what degree I wouldn't know. more reflected bass means whatever standing waves are resulting in nulls are made worse.

but setting the crossover higher, as you did, probably helped because you are forcing more bass freq's to come from 1 source, not all 7 wink.gif so now you have room dimension cancellation more at work, rather than cancellations & phase changes from all the speakers.

Steve
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post #635 of 877 Old 10-22-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


In many articles, finding the best position for a sub is called the sub crawl wink.gif you start by putting the sub where your seat is. then play a bass track or even better, bass test tones (found free online) and then "crawl" around the room (sides, front wall, back wall) and listen to where overall bass sounds loudest. Where you hear the loudest bass, THAT is the place you should place the sub, if possible.

Excellent advice, all.

And when you're ready to take it seriously, an investment of $50 in a USB microphone, a laptop/notebook, and a whole bunch of time will introduce you to a wonderful new obsession hobby.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs

BTW, the wavelength of a 50Hz tone is about 22 feet!

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Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #636 of 877 Old 10-22-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

BTW, the wavelength of a 50Hz tone is about 22 feet!

yup...your comment made me dig up the formula from a spreadsheet I have -

wavelength in ft = 1130 / frequency

IIRC, the 1130 is an approximation of the speed of sound, ft per second

BTW - thanks for the thumbs. I try to help smile.gif

so, assume that a room is 22 ft long & speakers are right at the front wall. for a 50 HZ sound, the loudest you will hear the 50 HZ tone will be at the front wall and the rear wall, and the softest will be right in the middle of the room, at about 11 ft, not taking into account the interference of the reflected back wave with the front. theoretically, the worst place to sit to hear 50 HZ would be at 11 or so ft from the front. of course, this is very simple and simplistic example. when you consider all the frequencies from < 20 to 250+ HZ, them bouncing off 6 surfaces, and interferences between direct & reflected waves, it gets kind of complicated wink.gif

there are many spreadsheet calculators around to show all the room nodes in all dimensions and distances. some are easier to understand than others.

here's one of several I've downloaded with a nice explanation of what it means:
http://realtraps.com/modecalc.htm

there are many others, some are quite complex and not intuitively obvious to understand

here's several excellent calculators from the Cardas site for optimizing speaker placement, room dimensions, etc.:
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

Steve
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post #637 of 877 Old 10-23-2013, 11:19 AM
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i think i read in the manual that changes made in the iphone app "emphasis" reset after the receiver is off, is that true?
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post #638 of 877 Old 10-31-2013, 09:07 AM
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problem

over the past 2 days im getting some video issue: turning the 63 on, after its been off overnight, the picture has some pixel abnormalities with wrong colors and margins with white pixels. everything is static unless the image moves/video plays and the abnormal colored/white pixels move around like they're replacing certain colors... if i switch hdmi input and then back, it returns to normal, and then the rest of the day, turning on/off the receiver doesnt occur again... what should i do ?
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post #639 of 877 Old 10-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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Hi all,
I will be setting up my new system with SC61 and BDP62. My question is: are they able to pass Ethernet signal to each other through HDMI if only one of them is connected directly to internet? Or there is no provision for this in Elite series? The manuals don't mention this it seems.
I will have a correct cable.
Thanks.
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post #640 of 877 Old 10-31-2013, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Hi all,
I will be setting up my new system with SC61 and BDP62. My question is: are they able to pass Ethernet signal to each other through HDMI if only one of them is connected directly to internet? Or there is no provision for this in Elite series? The manuals don't mention this it seems.
I will have a correct cable.
Thanks.

no

none of these devices use the ethernet capability in the HDMI 1.3/1.4 spec. I don't think there is any receiver, player, TV, processor, or other device that implements ethernet over HDMI.

and the SC-61 does not support multizone HDMI either. for that feature you needed the SC-68, SC-67 or one of the new models but even then you would not get ethernet over HDMI. the new models don't have ethernet over HDMI.

you'll have to use a switch or hub for connecting up both to the network.

Steve
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post #641 of 877 Old 10-31-2013, 06:24 PM
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Thanks for your reply. Thought so...
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post #642 of 877 Old 11-04-2013, 09:35 AM
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Hi Folks,

 

I just joined to see if any of you SC-61,63 folks know if the receivers will recognize software servers on the network and stream 24bit 192khz hi-def stereo audio directly from a computer steaming audio from a computer using JRiver Media Center or other server software?

 

I get terrific high def audio currently through my SC-27 powering Vandersteen 4 speakers (with a separate sub amp), but currently need to send the audio via Ethernet to my Oppo 103 first and then on to the SC-27 via hdmi.  I'd like to recommend streaming the hi-def audio to a friend, but hope that the current receivers can connect to the remote servers directly now.

 

Thanks,

Nelson

:confused:

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post #643 of 877 Old 11-05-2013, 04:16 PM
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Something like this? I stream audio and video over to the SC-61 with Serviio often.

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post #644 of 877 Old 11-05-2013, 05:17 PM
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Right.  What I want to know is whether the SC-61 can render 24bit/192khz wav files.  My SC-27 cannot, but will only render audio at a much lower bitrate and is not a full media renderer.  I think that has changed with the newer Elites and am trying to see if others are using it in that way.  Thanks.

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post #645 of 877 Old 11-05-2013, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post

i think i read in the manual that changes made in the iphone app "emphasis" reset after the receiver is off, is that true?

I can confirm it for you, found on the FAQ there:

http://pioneer.jp/support/soft/iapp_icontrolav2012ipad/en.html
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post #646 of 877 Old 11-06-2013, 09:22 AM
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ok thats where i saw it thanks!,
yeah maybe im wrong but it seemed that the changes persist when i start the receiver again...
or are the settings applied again when the app is started on the iphone (the app does remember settings)
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post #647 of 877 Old 11-06-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Soundidea
What I want to know is whether the SC-61 can render 24bit/192khz wav files.
Check the Pioneer-SC-61_Manual.pdf section 7 page 57. It looks like your answer is there.
Post what you think. I'm not sure what the answer is.
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post #648 of 877 Old 11-07-2013, 06:20 PM
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I can pick up a SC-63 for $550 from Best Buy, should I?

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post #649 of 877 Old 11-07-2013, 07:15 PM
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I can pick up a SC-63 for $550 from Best Buy, should I?

I paid $699 over a month ago..I say, do it.

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post #650 of 877 Old 11-07-2013, 07:19 PM
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I am trying to see if I can get them to take another 10% off, if I can get them to do that it will put it under $500 which will obviously be a no brainer

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post #651 of 877 Old 11-07-2013, 07:21 PM
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For sure! I think it's easily worth the $550 anyway.

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post #652 of 877 Old 11-08-2013, 02:21 PM
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Would I see any benefit to it versus say a  DENON AVR-2313CI? I am going to be running Polk RTI A5 front speakers off of it, still undecided on the center, rears and sub.

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post #653 of 877 Old 11-09-2013, 12:39 AM
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I'd get the Pioneer!

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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post #654 of 877 Old 11-09-2013, 10:52 AM
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well the Best Buy just lowered the price to $470, it is missing the remote but I will get the full warranty and it looks to be in great condition. It was one of their display units in Magnolia section. It dropped $80 in the last 3 days, it is a numbers game, I can probably wait and watch in go down more. They also have one missing everything but the power plug for $440 or a brand new in box for $749

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post #655 of 877 Old 11-09-2013, 02:55 PM
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Well I am officially an owner for a SC-63, they had two open boxes, one with a scratched display and one with a scratched knob, took a good knob off the scratched display one (very minor scratch on the display) and made one perfect one. So glad I waited a couple days, first of all the price dropped to $475 from $550 a few days ago and than I told them another Best Buy I was at had 10% off all open box and the first guy said no but the second girl asked the manager who said no problem. So I got it for just over $425, full 2 year warranty, perfect condition, just missing the remote, everything else is present. Think I got a deal.

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post #656 of 877 Old 11-11-2013, 11:13 AM
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I recently purchased an SC-71 assuming that it was essentially the same as the SC 61. After a few days of testing, and comparing it with my HK AVR2600, I decided to return the SC-71, but before I did, I wanted to do a side by side comparison with an SC-61. Something was missing in the roll-off of the highs in the 71, and it seemed to have an almost too sharp and "antiseptic sound that I did not get with the HK. I had heard the SC-61 previously, and it sounded great. I had not purchased one simply because it would not fit my rack (too deep). Thinking that there is a real difference, I found a New SC-63 this weekend at BB that was on clearance for just over $600. I decided to go ahead and purchase it. I spent yesterday doing some side-by-side testing just to see for myself if there is a difference. I did a reset on the 71 so nothing would be changed from factory settings. There is a difference! The 63 sounds more robust, and the highs are there. It does not seem to fall short with dynamic music at the peaks as the 71 did. That 7 pound difference may be in the power supply, and the newer supply simply cannot produce the sounds in the 71. Just my 2 cents. The SC 63 is a keeper.
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post #657 of 877 Old 11-12-2013, 09:07 PM
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Holy crap, I just read this whole thread and am now a bit intimidated by this receiver. Not sure if this thing won't be over my head!

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post #658 of 877 Old 11-13-2013, 06:19 AM
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^^
answered you in your other thread. don't be too intimidated, modern receivers may seem complicated at first to a new owner, but you will get the hang of it smile.gif

Steve
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post #659 of 877 Old 11-13-2013, 06:56 AM
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One of the things I kept seeing is there is no on screen display but going on to Pioneer's website, I see this listed under the SC-63, is there a difference between the 61 abd 63?

 

Full-Color On-Screen Graphical User Interface
All of the SC-63's advanced control and connectivity options are made even better with a full-color user interface via HDMI on your connected TV. Effortlessly navigate through the SC-63's menu and enjoy iTunes album art from a connected Apple device. This is one well-rounded AV receiver.

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post #660 of 877 Old 11-13-2013, 07:56 AM
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and the 63 was more expensive than the 61 wink.gif pay more, get more. I own the 68 and it has full OSD/menu GUI. ask specifically for 63 owners for an answer to this question in this thread. see what they say. if Pioneer is advertizing it for the 63, the chances are 99.999999% that it's there wink.gif

people buy the SC-61 because it's "cheap" and they can get a deal on it, say with Costco, and some come here and complain why it doesn't do certain things. when they should have done better homework before chasing the cheap price. some have posted they bought the 61 or lower then wondered why it didn't have a phono input; a simple check of the manual or rear panel photo on Pioneer's website would have told them it doesn't have one.

at least you're asking before you buy, which is very good; I commend you for taking time to do this smile.gif

but I will say, that IMHO, you are better off long term, buying a higher model so not to be disappointed missing some feature. no matter which brand you get.

Steve
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