Onkyo 818 -or- Denon 4311 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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So i've been changing around my system the past few weeks.

I bought a set of Salk songtowers/songcenter for the fronts, and the palce I moved into had in-walls for the surrounds --> so 7.0 total thus far.

I'm thinking of adding 1 or 2 subs to the system (undecided which ones yet), but given that was thinking of changing my receiver from a Pioneer elite with MCACC to one with Audyssey -- mainly for sub eq, but also just to try something differrent.

I'm tryig to decide between the two in the title: the onkyo 818 and denon 4311.

From authorized dealers the 818 runs about $840 and the Denon $1350. Both have multieq 32, but the main thing I'm debated is the amps. I'm assuming the denon's amps will be able to run the salks without a problem, but I'm not sure about the onkyo's.

Anyone care to chime in if spending the extra $500 is worth it for the denon?

thanks --

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post #2 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 07:52 AM
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4311 can eq 2 subs.
818 can only eq 1 sub.
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 07:53 AM
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^^^

nope...

4311 can level match/delay 2 subs (i.e. sub eq ht)... there are advantages to this...

both "eq" the subs "as one" (as they should)...

i'm biased... i'm a denon fanboy, and i wouldn't give an onkyo to my worst enemy... so i know which one i'd choose... tongue.gif

- chris

 

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post #4 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 08:01 AM
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You probalby won't notice much difference in power. The main advantage's of the denon are better handling of dual subs and being able to run 11.x. That and Onkyo has a poor reliability history.
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 08:04 AM
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^^^

yea, agreed... i think it's unlikely that in the "real world" there's any material difference...

- chris

 

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post #6 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 08:26 AM
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The Onkyo's amps in the past typically have run hotter then the Denon's so if they still run on the warmer side and you are housing the receiver in a confined area that could be a possible factor! confused.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 08:43 AM
 
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Why would you compare a receiver at $850 to one at $1250? I just ordered the 818.. I have an 805 and I've never had one issue. Don't let people scare you away from Onkyo,for a few people that had issues,thousands didn't. BTW ccotenj... Denon's have issues of their own,why don't you read about them! I know people that have the 818 and are blown away by it. Here is a review about the 818,its a good read.
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/ONKYO-TX-NR818-RECEIVER.html?_=1338941435891
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post #8 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 10:10 AM
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^^^

thank you for joining to educate me...

- chris

 

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post #9 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

Why would you compare a receiver at $850 to one at $1250? I just ordered the 818.. I have an 805 and I've never had one issue. Don't let people scare you away from Onkyo,for a few people that had issues,thousands didn't. BTW ccotenj... Denon's have issues of their own,why don't you read about them! I know people that have the 818 and are blown away by it. Here is a review about the 818,its a good read.
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/ONKYO-TX-NR818-RECEIVER.html?_=1338941435891

You haven't been a member of this forum long enough to have read various complaints about Onkyo receivers over the last 5 or so years. It's a lot more than a few people who have had issues.
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

You haven't been a member of this forum long enough to have read various complaints about Onkyo receivers over the last 5 or so years. It's a lot more than a few people who have had issues.

I would qualify the above comment that over the last 5 years, Onkyo has sold 2.78 million AVRs world-wide so out of those a few units may have had some technical issues...

The key point for Onkyo/Integra AVRs is that they bias their amplifier stages higher so they emmit more heat even when idling, so be sure to provide the recommended 4"-6" free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover to assure adequate ventilation..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #11 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 12:26 PM
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Edited...Did not mean to quote Goat1.

Keep on educating yourself about this before your pull the trigger. Take all the feedback here and compare the good and bad. I've been reading this forum for over 6 years and I can personally tell you that the die hard Denon fans bad mouth Onkyo however, die hard Onkyo fans don't bad mouth Denon's. There are a few people on this forum who give great information on this forum. One of them being "jdsmoothie" (hope he doesn't mind me calling him out). He's answered several of my questions about both Denon's and Onkyo's and never did I feel like he was talking down one over the other. Hopefully he can chime in to help you out.

Personally, I've owned 2 (605 and 705) Onkyo's without any issues. They did get hot but I'm told the newer models like the 818 don't get hot. I'm also aware that some older models had several issues but that doesn't seem to be the case with the 818. It is highly rated.

If you have a best buy around you, go in and check out the temperature for one in their Magnolia section. I personally want the Denon 3313 but it's missing a zone 2 feature I can't overlook.

Good Luck.
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post #12 of 24 Old 09-12-2012, 12:32 PM
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^^^

before being a denon fanboy, i was a card carrying pioneer ho'... so careful painting too broadly with that brush...

there's good reasons why i said what i did...

i also admitted my bias, which is something that others should learn to do...

- chris

 

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post #13 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

You haven't been a member of this forum long enough to have read various complaints about Onkyo receivers over the last 5 or so years. It's a lot more than a few people who have had issues.

I read this forum for quite a while before I joined.
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post #14 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
nope...
4311 can level match/delay 2 subs (i.e. sub eq ht)... there are advantages to this...
both "eq" the subs "as one" (as they should)...
If you have 2 subs located at the same distance from main listening position (MLP), with both level matched with SPL meter, is there any difference in Bass EQ?

My understanding of 4311 Sub EQ is this:
-Level match and time both subs.
-EQ sub 1. EQ sub2. EQ sub 1+2 as unity for final step.

818 bass EQ:
-EQ sub1+2 as unity.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #15 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for all the input:

so it seems the general consensus is that from an amplifiedr point of view, either receiver would be enough. The trade would basically be the denon can do sub ht eq and more chanels, while the onkyo is $500 cheaper. I won't delve into the perceived reliability issue, but the heat factor may come into play as I probably cant geg 4-6 inches on all sided.

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post #16 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

I would qualify the above comment that over the last 5 years, Onkyo has sold 2.78 million AVRs world-wide so out of those a few units may have had some technical issues...
The key point for Onkyo/Integra AVRs is that they bias their amplifier stages higher so they emmit more heat even when idling, so be sure to provide the recommended 4"-6" free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover to assure adequate ventilation..
Just my $0.02... wink.gif

This is the common argument for those in Onkyo's favor. The only reason they get more complaints is they sell more units.

I understand they sell more units, but the number of complaints for Onkyo's on this forum dwarfs the number of complaints for other common brands like Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, ... . It can't be entirely due to their selling more units.

The other common pro Onkyo comment is some form of 'My Onkyo works fine, therefore everyone who has an issue is incorrect'. Another argument that doesn't pass the sniff test. Of course not all Onkyos have a defect. Probably less than 10%. But when you have a defect rate of say 6%, while everyone else's rate is 3%, you're twice as likely to have an issue.

My impression is Onkyo's give you more features for the buck and one way they do this is to not spend as much on quality control. You get what you pay for.
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post #17 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

I would qualify the above comment that over the last 5 years, Onkyo has sold 2.78 million AVRs world-wide

Out of curiousity where did you get these sales figures from?

I feel either the 818 or the 4311 would be excellent choices in their respective price ranges.

Bill

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post #18 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 06:17 AM
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As an owner of two Onkyo receivers in the past 5 years, one is DOA. Onkyo 05 series of receivers seemed to be some of their best, after that things have slipped in regards to quality. Meanwhile the Pioneer and Denon units I have owned for many more years have yet to suffer a failure. My experience with Onkyo isn't one that would make it easy to buy another one. The difference between the two receiveres - 4311 and 818 is only a few hundred dollars if you do some looking around. Given that the 4311 is the clear choice, plus the Airplay feature is handy if you have a device that can take advantage of it.
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post #19 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

As an owner of two Onkyo receivers in the past 5 years, one is DOA. Onkyo 05 series of receivers seemed to be some of their best, after that things have slipped in regards to quality. Meanwhile the Pioneer and Denon units I have owned for many more years have yet to suffer a failure. My experience with Onkyo isn't one that would make it easy to buy another one. The difference between the two receiveres - 4311 and 818 is only a few hundred dollars if you do some looking around. Given that the 4311 is the clear choice, plus the Airplay feature is handy if you have a device that can take advantage of it.

Its true - in the grand scheme of things a few hundred dollars is not that big of a differrence. BUT, with ~ $2000 budgeted right now, the question is it worth it to get the denon and go with a $750 sub, or the Onkyo and get the better sub.

Other than possible improvement in reliability and sub eq, I think (for the price differrence) the Onkyo can accomplish what I'm looking for -- which is have the power to drive the Salks and make them 'sing", as it were.

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post #20 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 09:10 AM
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I think the best thing would be to look at both the 818 and 4311's threads to see what the users are saying about each unit. I would also see if you can audition each unit at a local store to see if you like the look and feel of one unit over the other. After that the hard part is the decision. Good luck. JT

PS I'm a Denon fan after owning both as well
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post #21 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 12:52 PM
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I would like to add that I had three Onkyos (805, 885 and 886) and never had a single issue with any of them. I decided to go with the 4311 for a change and I was a bit concerned about issues some were having with their Onkyos. But from what I have read it seems there are less issues with the xx09 and xx10 series AVRs though. I have the Songtowers and Song Center as well and I'm very happy with them.

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post #22 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input - I decided to opt for the Onkyo 818.

I decided that the feature set between the two was close enough, that I couldn't justify spending the extra $465 on the 4311.

Now, off to look at subs!biggrin.gif

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

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post #23 of 24 Old 09-13-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post

Now, off to look at subs!biggrin.gif

I would highly recommend Rythmik subs. I have the F12SE and love it for music and movies.

Bill

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Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #24 of 24 Old 09-29-2012, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So I had the 818 for about 2 weeks and found it wasn't for me. Even though MCACC doesn't EQ subs, I liked the ability to tweak (and hence overall result) much more.i returned the 818, replaced it with a SC-55, and am happy as a clam (except I liked the looks of my SC-35 better .... oh well)

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

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