The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 05:04 AM
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For those with 11.1 and using DSX, this question directed to you.

Have you tweaked the settings for the wides/height?
I see this in my Denon 4520CI menu settings and have not really experimented, so curious what others have done and experienced.
It says just a number, not db, so is this some sort of ambiance/reflection tweak to the basic algorithm used to create the DSX affect?
I see it says "adjust the level of the wide speakers", but if sound pressure level then I'd expect a db label like used on all other spl adjustments.


fwiw, I posted same Q in facebook to Chris K
http://www.facebook.com/groups/audysseytechtalk/
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post #2972 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

I own a Marantz SR 12 S1, the most musical AV amp of it's generation and still sings a great tune. SRP is about 8k, and powerful with 70 000mF of caps. And it comes with a toroidal transformer and many other audiophile trappings. Well it should for 8 grand and toast my bread too...
Sorry pal, but when it comes to toasting bread Marantz can't "hold a candle" to Onkyo AVRs of recent vintage. Marantz components just don't have the sheer heat-generating capacity, doesn't matter if we're talking white or whole wheat.

This has not yet been subjected to double-blind taste testing so join us for brunch on the "Your AVR is toast!/No yours is!" thread.

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post #2973 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 06:24 AM
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I don't disagree with your assessment of Onkyo... I once touched a 8xx series AV amp, and for a moment I thought that they had tubes inside... great for a winter season - you can save on the heaters, but if want a long lived amp, I would get massive fans for them.

A lot has been written about their massive toroidals and impressive specs - THX Ultra and all, but I don't know how they will hold up in real usage, and can these THX Ultra amps really do that 150 W pc... I know even the might SR 12 I have, was measured to be 105W X 7 all channels driven and it has twice or thrice the capacitance of the modern flagship Onkyo / Denon / Yammie etc.

So if having a toroidal turns on our friend Joe, then I guess it's "if it makes you happy" - Sheryl Crow was it?
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post #2974 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

I’m mostly in agreement with you. I’ve said it before that I consider the AVR-4520ci the best receiver in its category as a package. My issue is that we call it flagship because it’s the most modern Denon receiver but that’s misleading. The flagship should be a 5320ci or 5820ci… The 5308 is being replaced by the 4520 and that’s not logical.
I’m willing to pay the price for a modern and powerful Denon receiver but they don’t make it anymore. Apparently that’s what the masses want…

More accurately, the 4520CI replaced the 4311CI and 4810CI while the 5308CI and AVP (although now discontinued AFAIK primarily due to non-availability of repair parts) were provided with a 3D/XT32 upgrade to keep them current awhile longer. The 4520CI is the new "flagship" only because it is the highest currently available model.

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post #2975 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

I’m mostly in agreement with you. I’ve said it before that I consider the AVR-4520ci the best receiver in its category as a package. My issue is that we call it flagship because it’s the most modern Denon receiver but that’s misleading. The flagship should be a 5320ci or 5820ci… The 5308 is being replaced by the 4520 and that’s not logical.
I’m willing to pay the price for a modern and powerful Denon receiver but they don’t make it anymore. Apparently that’s what the masses want…

So this begs the question: Why are you in the Denon 4520 forum everyday if you've never owned it and aren't even interested in it?
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post #2976 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 09:52 AM
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Just received my 4520 today and am in the process of hooking it up now. 1st question: why is it LIGHTER than the 4306 I'm replacing? It has 4 more amps, is larger, so I expected a heavier unit. Looking through the tops it appears that the transformer in the 4306 is larger. Hopefully this is not a case of heavier is better.

Jer
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post #2977 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 10:08 AM
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^Whew. For a scarey moment I thought we'd moved away from the transformers, caps and total watts-all-channels-driven discussion to toast. wink.gif

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post #2978 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually it only has two more amps. But who cares what it weighs; just hook it up and see how you like the sound wink.gif

If you want to read discussions about weight and power please just go back and read the last 10 pages or so.

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post #2979 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post

So this begs the question: Why are you in the Denon 4520 forum everyday if you've never owned it and aren't even interested in it?
confused.gif
I’m not sure how to answer your question.
1- I do own a Denon AVR- 4520ci (No need to be Sherlock Holmes to now that, just read more than one post before assuming and posting. May be that’s why I can discuss my opinions with confidence.)
2- You don’t have to own an AVR-4520ci in order to discuss it. Wise people discuss it first and share it after. (Hello? Freedom of speech???)
3- As long as the title of the thread doesn’t say Praise the Lord and our Savior Denon- 4520ci or get out of the house of God, discussing the goods and the bads of anything related to this receiver is fair game.

I must admit though I’m finally realizing if/when Denon goes back to its original tradition by introducing a real $5,000 flagship receiver, most of the folks who already mortgaged their homes to buy their 4520ci will be upset because their biggest lifetime investment in an AVR is no longer called flagship and they can’t afford to own the real flagship either.

So let’s keep on drinking the Kool Aid while it lasts… Shall We? smile.gif
Cheers
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post #2980 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucka View Post

I just wish I was seeing larger capacitors for the Power Supply...

Chucka
How dare you say that???? mad.gifBack on 10/3/12
LOL…
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post #2981 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:05 AM
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I wonder why AVS doesn't have a "Thumbs Down" button we could use occassionally?  I'm just sayin'......

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post #2982 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

I took the lid off and took a couple of photos - naturally, I put it back together before looking at them and they didn't turn out so well.  However, here are a few to show the innards.  Looks like the DACs are PCM1795 T.I. 











Thanks for the guts pictures.
Where’s the beef… tongue.gif
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post #2983 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:22 AM
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IMO this AVR (and the 4311 for that matter) provides some serious SQ value. IMO that value exceeds the older AVRs largely due to DSP RC advancements. These models also cost so much less than the older flagship AVRs that if one feels lacking in the amp department, one can simply buy some nice ext amps of one's chosing and enjoy the best of both worlds. The internal amps are certainly capable enough and handy for powering several channels of surrounds, wides, heights so one need not purchase more than 3-5 channels of ext amplification.

Then in a few years, when some new DSP or networking features, etc come along, you just switch this one out for the new one. With the built-in amps, it has more resale value and is easier to sell than a pre/pro separate, or is very useful as a second AVR elsewhere in the house.

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post #2984 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

confused.gif
I’m not sure how to answer your question.
1- I do own a Denon AVR- 4520ci (No need to be Sherlock Holmes to now that, just read more than one post before assuming and posting. May be that’s why I can discuss my opinions with confidence.)
2- You don’t have to own an AVR-4520ci in order to discuss it. Wise people discuss it first and share it after. (Hello? Freedom of speech???)
3- As long as the title of the thread doesn’t say Praise the Lord and our Savior Denon- 4520ci or get out of the house of God, discussing the goods and the bads of anything related to this receiver is fair game.

I must admit though I’m finally realizing if/when Denon goes back to its original tradition by introducing a real $5,000 flagship receiver, most of the folks who already mortgaged their homes to buy their 4520ci will be upset because their biggest lifetime investment in an AVR is no longer called flagship and they can’t afford to own the real flagship either.

So let’s keep on drinking the Kool Aid while it lasts… Shall We? smile.gif
Cheers

1- It was my assumption that based on your continued posts regarding how awful the amp section is that you couldn't possibly stand to own this AVR. This is my mistake.

2- It's one thing to discuss the Denon. It's quite another to continually bash on the AVR page after page. Should I count up how many derogatory posts you've made regarding the amp section? That's not discussing anything, that's furthering your agenda.

3- Please stop twisting my words. If you have a problem with this receiver then it's your right to voice it. It's also my right to point out that you are over dramatizing the Denon's "weak" amp section and possibly giving the wrong impression to potential buyers. Maybe we should start forming opinions based on what we hear and not what some poorly translated German bench test may or may not have concluded.

In my opinion, this receiver is an amazing value and offers a feature set that makes it well worth the sticker price. As many have said before, if you are part of the 5% with inefficient speakers that the Denon's amp section can't drive properly then go get external amps.
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post #2985 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:58 AM
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Does anybody know what class the amps in he Denon are? Based on the rated output, the weight of the unit and the fact that most say this unit operates relatively "Cool", I am wondering if they are Class D? I coud not find anything in the literature on this unit. Just curious if anyone knows.
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post #2986 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 11:59 AM
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Folks I am thinking replacing my 2809ci. Can someone please explain me...
* 9 channels of amplification, rated at 150W/ch (8 ohms, 0.05% THD)
* Expandable to 11 channels with the addition of external amps

So I take it, I can still have 11.2 even though the FH and FW doesnt have an amp or does it really need an amp to work? Is there some sort of a feature if I sue the FH/FW it splits the total power?

Why is there 4 ehternet hub?

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post #2987 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 12:11 PM
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1. Just as the 2809 is rated at 115W the 150W rating simply means it is a bit more powerful, although not likely that noticeable unless powering 4-ohm speakers at loud volume levels.
2. By adding a 2CH amp (or even using your 2809CI) the AVR can expand from 9.2 to 11.2 with the external amp powering at a minimum either the FL/FR or FHL/FHR speakers. Without the external amplification, the AVR can power 9 channels on its own.

Not sure what you're asking about "splits the power"? As you add more speakers you reduce the total power available to each speaker, with a 9.2 setup, likely average about 70-80W/CH.

The ethernet hub simply adds the additional feature of not having to purchase an external 4-port switch, rather simply connecting the AVR directly to the WiFi router or to a "wireless" bridge.

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post #2988 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. Just as the 2809 is rated at 115W the 150W rating simply means it is a bit more powerful, although not likely that noticeable unless powering 4-ohm speakers at loud volume levels.
2. By adding a 2CH amp (or even using your 2809CI) the AVR can expand from 9.2 to 11.2 with the external amp powering at a minimum either the FL/FR or FHL/FHR speakers. Without the external amplification, the AVR can power 9 channels on its own.

Not sure what you're asking about "splits the power"? As you add more speakers you reduce the total power available to each speaker, with a 9.2 setup, likely average about 70-80W/CH.

The ethernet hub simply adds the additional feature of not having to purchase an external 4-port switch, rather simply connecting the AVR directly to the WiFi router or to a "wireless" bridge.

Thanks!

I mean splitting the power, example if each ch is 150 watt for 9.2 and if using 11.2 it would be something like 122 watt for each channel. So is another amp "needed" to power the other 2ch? I see those channels not needing much power.

So I can use my 2809CI as an amp? redface.gif sounds good but thats a power I don't really need anymore. I just like to have a 11.2 surround.

Thats great that is has built in 4port switch, may not be useful for me as I have 8 port switch in my HT area but great option.

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post #2989 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 01:03 PM
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Hello,
I am currently watching Taken on Blu-ray and I am utterly astonished at just how amazing the 4520 sounds. The Preamp Stage of this AVR is simply in another class than the Onkyo TX-NR3008 that I was using up until 3 weeks ago. As both offer Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT, I honestly was not expecting this much of a difference.

While I am using both strictly as a Prepro, the Onkyo really struggled in respect to having enough voltage to drive my Aragon 8008bb and to a lesser extent my Parasound amplifiers. While I am quite confident both the Onkyo and the 4520 can power the vast majority of speakers, I am using Martin Logan Vantages (Mains), Vista (Surrounds), Stage (Center Channel) and a ML Descent i and Depth subwoofer.

As both the Mains and Surrounds dip below 2 ohms, I just do not think any AVR can properly power them. That being said, I do know someone who has been so satisfied with the 4520 driving his Martin Logan Prodigies in a BiAmp Configuration that he has since sold the Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks that previously were used to power the Prodigies. In addition, he is using the 4520 to power ML Ascent i's (Surrounds) and Theater i (CC) so when time permits I am going to see how the Denon fares driving my Martin Logans.
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post #2990 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 01:32 PM
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Anyone bought from Elegant Audio Video? They have this receiver for about $2000.

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C: Def Tech - CLR2002
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post #2991 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

confused.gif
I’m not sure how to answer your question.
1- I do own a Denon AVR- 4520ci (No need to be Sherlock Holmes to now that, just read more than one post before assuming and posting. May be that’s why I can discuss my opinions with confidence.)
2- You don’t have to own an AVR-4520ci in order to discuss it. Wise people discuss it first and share it after. (Hello? Freedom of speech???)
3- As long as the title of the thread doesn’t say Praise the Lord and our Savior Denon- 4520ci or get out of the house of God, discussing the goods and the bads of anything related to this receiver is fair game.

I must admit though I’m finally realizing if/when Denon goes back to its original tradition by introducing a real $5,000 flagship receiver, most of the folks who already mortgaged their homes to buy their 4520ci will be upset because their biggest lifetime investment in an AVR is no longer called flagship and they can’t afford to own the real flagship either.

So let’s keep on drinking the Kool Aid while it lasts… Shall We? smile.gif
Cheers

I really don't understand why you are harping on the power capabilities? If power is such an issue for you, get an AMP! Otherwise, there is NO OTHER AVR on the market today that puts out TONS of power, unless you connect an external amp. Get over it or get an amp!! This is getting ridiculous....

I don't understand what answer you are looking for?? Yes, the there are power limitations to ANY AVR. If you have power hungry speakers, most people know that powering them at reference levels is not gonna cut it for long periods of time with an AVR.
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post #2992 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post

Anyone bought from Elegant Audio Video? They have this receiver for about $2000.


Elegant are not an authorized Denon dealer so you would run into issues should you need to have the AVR repaired. From what I have read, sometimes they do act as a sort of third party between an authorized dealer and a buyer. Provided you get a sales receipt from an authorized Denon dealer you might be ok. However, I do not think many would be willing to do so as they would be selling it so far below MAP & MSRP and risk losing their agreement with Denon. The practice described is known as transshipping. Elegant also has the 4520 listed for far less on Audiogon.

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post #2993 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 02:37 PM
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Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but can the AVR-4520CI provide Audyssey room correction for 2 or more zones? I'd like to use the same AVR for both my 5.1 and 2.0 rooms, both of which will benefit from room correction.

Thanks!
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^No, Audysey is applied only in the main zone.


However...you can do a calibration for the 5.1 and use network save. Then do one for 2.0 and Network Save. It takes only a few minutes to switch between them using Network Load.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #2995 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Does anybody know what class the amps in he Denon are? Based on the rated output, the weight of the unit and the fact that most say this unit operates relatively "Cool", I am wondering if they are Class D? I coud not find anything in the literature on this unit. Just curious if anyone knows.
They're Class A/B as are almost all AVR amps. AFAIK very few AVRs are Class D (IIRC some Pio AVRs had/have a variant of Class D (ICE). You can find Class D in some Pro amps. Class D has advantages of efficiency but require certain design considerations and complexity.

That said, my Halcro MC30 is Class D and sounds simply superb powering my FR/L/CC Dali Euphonias.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #2996 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Sorry pal, but when it comes to toasting bread Marantz can't "hold a candle" to Onkyo AVRs of recent vintage. Marantz components just don't have the sheer heat-generating capacity, doesn't matter if we're talking white or whole wheat.

This has not yet been subjected to double-blind taste testing so join us for brunch on the "Your AVR is toast!/No yours is!" thread.

Toast-making flame suit on. tongue.gif

Yeah, my Onkyo 705 could both fry an egg and toast bread. The Denon 4520 would barely warm a bun.

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post #2997 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 04:00 PM
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^You get what you pay for. The Denons are so sad when it comes to making breakfast. biggrin.gif

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #2998 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 04:43 PM
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Should this receiver indicate on the display if my source is Dolby True HD or DTS-HD? All it says is Multi Channel In no matter what Blu-ray sound format I am using. How do I know if it actually decoding/detecting the correct source?

Thanks,
Jerry
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post #2999 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^No, Audysey is applied only in the main zone.


However...you can do a calibration for the 5.1 and use network save. Then do one for 2.0 and Network Save. It takes only a few minutes to switch between them using Network Load.

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe the OP is saying he would like to be able to run 5.1 with RC in one room and 2.0 with RC in a second room, simultaneously.  Which he could not do, unfortunately.

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post #3000 of 10590 Old 02-16-2013, 05:16 PM
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Sounds like your BP is doing the decoding; make sure BP is set to "bitstream" and "bitstream downmix" is set to "off".
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