The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 9973 Old 02-28-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

While not surprising that my Martin Logan Vantages and Stage Center Channel both show up with a phase error as electrostatic speakers are bipolar, I never got phase errors with my Onkyo TX-NR3008 which also sports XT32/SubEQ HT.

you may have missed the resolution to nezff's discussion about this (not receiving a phase error on his old Onkyo, and suddenly receiving it on the Denon) because it was in the Audyssey thread... but the reason is that Onkyo actually DROPPED this feature a couple of years ago. You didn't get the phase error with the 3008 because Onkyo no longer reports polarity warnings smile.gif Chris from Audyssey confirmed this... apparently Onkyo felt that, due to the number of false positives, it was something that ended up being more confusing than helpful for the end user.

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post #3152 of 9973 Old 02-28-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Gerry,

1. No, it was perfectly clear and it's still the same question as #2 tongue.gif Audyssey setup is NOT required to hear sound, period.

3. Um, read what I wrote again wink.gif There is a comma between the word "No" and the rest of the sentence.


batpig,

My eyes are giving out on me and/or my age factor smile.gif. Thank you for pointing out my errors, and I finally got it smile.gif. I'm just somewhat overwhelmed with the 4520. I have visited your web site which has some excellent info.

Thanks again!

Gerry
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post #3153 of 9973 Old 02-28-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Audiodork, I want your avatar. I was at a PCA event about 3 years ago and I saw one in the flesh. I think it's the most aggressive, purposeful looking car I've ever seen.
I had to change my avatar after seeing yours
I think that picture came from Jalopnik, I agree about the 959. Just a timeless, beautiful car that also happened to be decades ahead of its time. Living where I do, during tourist season especially, I see a very high number of Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Bentley's, and many P Cars. The craziest stretch of my life was my ex GF's 30th birthday when I saw a Carrera GT at Roy's in Tampa and then saw a true unicorn in a Bugatti Veyron on I-275 on the way back south. Dream of seeing a 959...

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you may have missed the resolution to nezff's discussion about this (not receiving a phase error on his old Onkyo, and suddenly receiving it on the Denon) because it was in the Audyssey thread... but the reason is that Onkyo actually DROPPED this feature a couple of years ago. You didn't get the phase error with the 3008 because Onkyo no longer reports polarity warnings smile.gif Chris from Audyssey confirmed this... apparently Onkyo felt that, due to the number of false positives, it was something that ended up being more confusing than helpful for the end user.

Thank you so much for that information. Indeed I was unaware as the Audyssey Thread is quite daunting in terms of information. I wish I had started following it closely in the beginning of said thread. That also sounds like such an Onkyo thing to do. That is to leave it off so as to avoid dealing with customer complaints. While I honestly had a very good run of using Onkyo AVR's, the Preamp Stage in the 4520 has made a massive difference in respect to driving my amplifiers.

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post #3154 of 9973 Old 02-28-2013, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepperOne View Post

1. I guess that my question needs better clarification. When I connect the speakers and sub, and turn on the 4520, will I be able to hear any audio if I say have the AVR set on a FM station before I employ Audyssey?

3. You said that there is no default setting for the amp assignments. Does that mean that in question 1 above means that I will have no audio output with a FM station tuned in and that the amps need to be assigned before any speaker output is detected?

Gerry
1. Yes

3. No

The 4520 will send signal by default. On first power up there is an onscreen setup.
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post #3155 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepperOne View Post



3. You said that there is no default setting for the amp assignments. Does that mean that in question 1 above means that I will have no audio output with a FM station tuned in and that the amps need to be assigned before any speaker output is detected?

Gerry

As noted below and on p. 141 in the OM, the factory default setting is ....


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post #3156 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 04:09 AM
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Hi.

In relation to my own thread about the AVR-4520 & 5.1 audio to 7.1 output, I have a question regarding the "Speaker Select"-Menu under the "Surround Paratmeter"-section.

My receiver has Amp Assign set to "7.1ch + Zone 2" and Speaker Config for Surround Back is set to "Small" and "2spkrs", however the "Speaker Select"-menu is still not visible...

Does anyone of you know in which (special) cases this menu is visible/accessible?

Thx smile.gif
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post #3157 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The "Speaker Select" setting allows you to choose which "extra" speakers (those beyond the core 5 channels) you want active when there are not enough amps for the speakers connected. In your case, since you have a standard 7ch setup and the receiver is set up as such, there is nothing to select.

Pay specific attention to the note at the bottom of that section in the manual: "Only speakers that are set to something other than "None" in "Speaker Config" can be selected". Since I assume you don't have heights or wides connected, there is nothing else to select besides Surr.Back and thus the menu isn't available.

The key thing to understand is that this receiver allows you to connect and EQ up to all 11 possible speakers even if you don't have enough amps to power them all simultaneously. So, for example, you are running a 7ch + Zone 2 setup. So only 7 amps are available for Main Zone. However, if you wanted, you could still connect height and wide speakers and Audyssey would detect and EQ them all. So after Audyssey the Speaker Config would display 11 speakers connected. However, you only have 7 amps dedicated to Main Zone, thus you can to select which pair of speakers (among the three options: surr.back, height, or wide) are active as those last two channels, because you can't power them all at the same time. If you had amp assign set to 9.1, then you would have 9 amps dedicated to main zone and you could select any combination of two out of those three extra channels.

Make sense? smile.gif

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post #3158 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awa61 View Post

I am having trouble with the rear IR input with a URC MX-880 and MRF-350 base station. I can't get the 4520 to power on. I tried several different On commands as well as learned code from the Denon remote. I called Denon, they blamed the remote control.

Once I power on using front panel power button every programmed command works including power off. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Andy Adams

I checked the firmware updates which mentioned this issue in the first firmware update. My 4520 is fully updated but still has this issue.

Andy
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post #3159 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 12:30 PM
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Watched a couple movies on the 4520. After running Audyssey, everything seems to be sounding nice! My subs seem to sound better and beefier than with my Onkyo for some reason. I think I made a wise decision to go with my first DENON.


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post #3160 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Watched a couple movies on the 4520. After running Audyssey, everything seems to be sounding nice! My subs seem to sound better and beefier than with my Onkyo for some reason. I think I made a wise decision to go with my first DENON.

Cool! You are making me lean really hard towards the 4520! Btw can this be attributed to the audyssey measurements taken behind the MLP?
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post #3161 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you may have missed the resolution to nezff's discussion about this (not receiving a phase error on his old Onkyo, and suddenly receiving it on the Denon) because it was in the Audyssey thread... but the reason is that Onkyo actually DROPPED this feature a couple of years ago. You didn't get the phase error with the 3008 because Onkyo no longer reports polarity warnings smile.gif Chris from Audyssey confirmed this... apparently Onkyo felt that, due to the number of false positives, it was something that ended up being more confusing than helpful for the end user.

I also had false positives with both Pioneer MCACC system and most recently with Yamaha's YPAO

in the case of the Pioneer it just finally "stopped"..in the case of the Yamaha I called their support line and the said..."yes...that just happens sometimes....."






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post #3162 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio1246 View Post

Cool! You are making me lean really hard towards the 4520! Btw can this be attributed to the audyssey measurements taken behind the MLP?

No. these were taken in each seat, middle of seats and a tad in front of seats basically creating a somewhat audio bubble.


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post #3163 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 07:28 PM
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Hi
I have 7.2 set up
If I set the 4520 to stereo I don't get the sub"s working
How do I change this?
My old denon let me set stereo with or with subs on
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post #3164 of 9973 Old 03-01-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

Hi
I have 7.2 set up
If I set the 4520 to stereo I don't get the sub"s working
How do I change this?
My old denon let me set stereo with or with subs on

 

If your left and right speakers are set to small (which they should be), then your subs should be getting re-directed bass.  If your left and right speakers are set to large (which they shouldn't be), then you need to go onto the speakers menu, bass sub-menu, and set bass to be LFE+Main (which is called double-bass).


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post #3165 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 08:37 AM
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A page back I asked about the volume on an IOS device not controlling the volume to the speakers in Zone 2. I found that it only controls the Main Zone volume.
OK, does ANYBODY know how to use Airplay to play to Zone 2 only, without hijacking the Main Zone and interrupting people watching movies in the main zone? If I turn off the Main Zone after an Airplay session starts playing then it stops playback to the 2nd zone as well, even though that zone is left on.

I thought this receiver could play independently to Zone 2 via Airplay, at least that's what the specs say:
"- AirPlay can be played to Zone 2/3 independently from Main Zone (although there is still an initial "hijack" when you start Airplay"

And I see it says initially there is a Hijack, but what do you have to do to fix this, change the input in the main zone back to Blu-Ray or whatever after the initial Hijack?


Thanks,
Jerry
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post #3166 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 09:13 AM
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biggrin.gif I just wanted to thank Mike @AVS for all the help in getting me a replacement 4520 from Denon! The new one is working out so far and everything is back to normal.

Time to watch more movies!
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post #3167 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

biggrin.gif I just wanted to thank Mike @AVS for all the help in getting me a replacement 4520 from Denon! The new one is working out so far and everything is back to normal.

Time to watch more movies!

what was wrong with the first one?

congrats!


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post #3168 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

what was wrong with the first one?

congrats!

There was a loud hum that was audible from a couple of feet away. Someone else on this thread said it might be the transformer wires touching the heat shield and someone else said it could be a bad transformer. I made a short video of it and emailed it to Mike@AVS and he sent it to a Denon rep. After a while, I got a shipping notice stating that a replacement was being sent. I got the new one yesterday, plugged it in and voila!, the only sound was the normal buzz of electronics! I have to get within an inch or so before I can hear it. So after hooking everything up, running Audyssey again, I put on Skyfall and enjoyed a good movie one more time.


biggrin.gif
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post #3169 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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There sure seems to be a large number of defectives out of the box on these made in Japan units?? I think this really indicates poor manufacture or cheap unreliable parts .......I am considering one of these but it is worrysome. I have an AVR-3808CI (my secondary sytem) that I bought in May 2008 and it is like a rock.......then In my main system it is the Onkyo TX-NR3009 (I think it may have bad capacitors or something as it makes click sounds occationally.......not surround mode swithching related).....Maybe looking to replace the 3009........
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post #3170 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

There was a loud hum that was audible from a couple of feet away. Someone else on this thread said it might be the transformer wires touching the heat shield and someone else said it could be a bad transformer. I made a short video of it and emailed it to Mike@AVS and he sent it to a Denon rep. After a while, I got a shipping notice stating that a replacement was being sent. I got the new one yesterday, plugged it in and voila!, the only sound was the normal buzz of electronics! I have to get within an inch or so before I can hear it. So after hooking everything up, running Audyssey again, I put on Skyfall and enjoyed a good movie one more time.


biggrin.gif

I know there is a small hum from mine also. Do you still have the video. I would love to see it. Pm me.


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post #3171 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

There sure seems to be a large number of defectives out of the box on these made in Japan units?...
Has there really been more than the usual percentage defective units reported here?
It's usually safe to assume that the threads attract a disproportionate # of problems compared to the many units shipped, so we should be seeing quite a few reports of returns if the build quality has dropped. Here's an ex.- check out the old AVR4310 thread. It became obvious that the 4310 NIC boards failing at a high rate (usually only after several months of use) because it was reported by an exceptional percentage of posters.

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post #3172 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Has there really been more than the usual percentage defective units reported here?
It's usually safe to assume that the threads attract a disproportionate # of problems compared to the many units shipped, so we should be seeing quite a few reports of returns if the build quality has dropped. Here's an ex.- check out the old AVR4310 thread. It became obvious that the 4310 NIC boards failing at a high rate (usually only after several months of use) because it was reported by an exceptional percentage of posters.

while I can understand your point...and it seems to be one that a lot of people make in threads when they see complaints....... generally about a unit they personally really like

not that that is you.....just saying....smile.gif

My point is

This is not a "walmart volune" unit that has been out for 3 years. I would speculate that Denon has not sold near the volume of some of their lower end models

That being said..it doesn't take much to skew the reliability ratio

if this were say a mid line LG Tv we were talking...pages of complaints might be insignificant.....considering Walmart probably sells a few thousand a month


with the 4520....reliability issues in the forum threads need to be taken seriously


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post #3173 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

There was a loud hum that was audible from a couple of feet away. Someone else on this thread said it might be the transformer wires touching the heat shield

Hum... I never heard this one before. cool.gif
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post #3174 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 07:18 PM
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The hum is caused by resonance frequency that can manifest itself at any time overtime. The heat shield simply amplifies it.
Denon washed their hands claiming the vender is not an authorized dealer. The dealer insisted he was one and finally agreed to take it back. I decided not waste more money on shipping back and forth because I lost faith in the product design.
I fixed it myself by unscrewing the transformer so I can insulate the L shape heat shield base that sits between the transformer and the chassis using dampening materiel. I also curved the plate and tied the wires away.
The audible noise is still there and can be heard only in a quiet environment if your ear touches the unit but that’s not a problem for the average Joe. What bothers me though is the fact that the 60Hz physical hum translates into a 60Hz hiss noise amplified to the speakers.
What’s interesting, the hiss can be eliminated by 80% if you turn Audyssey off.
Then again, the average Joe wants the watch a movie now…

Now having admitted what I did, I believe I voided my “warrantee” for the best interest of the audience;
On the other hand who knows, I might receive a PM from Denon offering me a new receiver for helping them with the problem before it goes viral…
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post #3175 of 9973 Old 03-02-2013, 09:21 PM
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Hello,

I starting setting up my 4520 which was purchased from AVS last week and I am having video problems. I get the image flashing up (1 second) and then 10-15 seconds of black on all inputs. mad.gif The audio continues to come through just fine during the blackout. I have hooked up 2 DVRs (Comcast Motorola 3416s) and 1 HTPC. All three were hooked up via HDMI. I also tried hooking up the DVRs via component and get the same issue. I have tried swapping the HDMI 1.3a cables for new 1.4 cables with no luck as well.

The 4520 is outputting to a Panny AX100 projector (720p) and this same setup was working earlier in the day with my old Onkyo TX-NR905. In addition, all sources are working through my Denon 2310CI which is outputting to a Panasonic plasma.

I have updated the firmware, tried changing HDMI source input settings, changed output from auto to 720p without sucess.

Any ideas what else I can do to identify the problem?

Thanks,
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post #3176 of 9973 Old 03-03-2013, 12:39 AM
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Although cable length issues > 20' generally only apply to 1080p video, you may still need to add an HDMI repeater. Try connecting to the same plasma the 2310CI is connected to to determine if the issue is unit related.
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post #3177 of 9973 Old 03-03-2013, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

while I can understand your point...and it seems to be one that a lot of people make in threads when they see complaints....... generally about a unit they personally really like
not that that is you.....just saying....smile.gif
My point is
This is not a "walmart volune" unit that has been out for 3 years. I would speculate that Denon has not sold near the volume of some of their lower end models
That being said..it doesn't take much to skew the reliability ratio
if this were say a mid line LG Tv we were talking...pages of complaints might be insignificant.....considering Walmart probably sells a few thousand a month
with the 4520....reliability issues in the forum threads need to be taken seriously
Warren
I am a repeat Denon owner and was personally was affected by the 4310 NIC common failure issue. Despite that, Denon seems to me a reliable brand and in my case the problem was easily and quickly fixed by my local Denon authorized repair shop under warranty.

With an eye to SQ upgrades, I've been interested in this model and followed the thread from the beginning-3K+ posts over 5 months since it's been out. So far I've decided to wait for something that will make upgrading from my AVRA100 and DBPA100 (my dynamic- duo combo!) more worth the trouble and expense, based on my needs and preferences. But NOT because of a concern about reliability.

Offhand I can only recall a handful of returned units and no specific pattern, so that just indicates a pretty normal reliability to me, as by now thousands are in use worldwide. For perspective, I've also followed the Denon AVPA1 pre/pro thread. That is a very expensive, very well-built flagship model with proportionately few sold. There have been occasional owner posts of units that needed repair.

As I've not been closely following every single issue discussed on this thread I said, "Has there really been more than the usual percentage defective units reported here?", in response to the OP's concern. I agree that we should always take reliability seriously when spending our hard-earned HT $.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3178 of 9973 Old 03-03-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by T.Wells View Post

Hello,

I starting setting up my 4520 which was purchased from AVS last week and I am having video problems. I get the image flashing up (1 second) and then 10-15 seconds of black on all inputs. mad.gif The audio continues to come through just fine during the blackout. I have hooked up 2 DVRs (Comcast Motorola 3416s) and 1 HTPC. All three were hooked up via HDMI. I also tried hooking up the DVRs via component and get the same issue. I have tried swapping the HDMI 1.3a cables for new 1.4 cables with no luck as well.

The 4520 is outputting to a Panny AX100 projector (720p) and this same setup was working earlier in the day with my old Onkyo TX-NR905. In addition, all sources are working through my Denon 2310CI which is outputting to a Panasonic plasma.

I have updated the firmware, tried changing HDMI source input settings, changed output from auto to 720p without sucess.

Any ideas what else I can do to identify the problem?

Thanks,
T.Wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although cable length issues > 20' generally only apply to 1080p video, you may still need to add an HDMI repeater. Try connecting to the same plasma the 2310CI is connected to to determine if the issue is unit related.

Thanks. The issue for me in connecting to the plasma that is run by the 2310 is that all equipment is located in the basement equipment rack so the cable run is still 25'. I can give that a try though. I did shorten the cable run as the equipment closet is located outside the theater room. I ran a new 15' HDMI 1.4 cord to the projector with the same results. I also tried a 50' monoprice HDMI cord with Redmere. I also connected a DVR straight to the projector to assure the new cord was working and it was fine.

I have done the hard reset (back, info, power) several times and that didn't help.

I also tried to use the component connection from the 4520 to the projector and all I had was a black screen. I am starting to think I got a bad 4520 or that it won't communicate with the Panny AX100.

I guess my last attempt should be to unrack the 4520 and a source and take them upstairs to one of the plasmas.

Anything else I should try before calling it a day?

Thanks,
T.Wells


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post #3179 of 9973 Old 03-03-2013, 10:45 AM
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You've pretty much covered all the usual troubleshooting suggestions as well as used a cable < 20', so rather than connecting the 4520CI to the plasma, I'd connect the 2310CI to the PJ to determine if the issue is a conflict with the PJ, otherwise, just go for replacement. Note however, that in order for a component video ouput to work it must have a component video input as there is no HDMI ---> component down conversion. Also note there are two outputs ... main zone (Monitor) and Zone 2.

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post #3180 of 9973 Old 03-03-2013, 11:58 AM
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I like to share this with those among us considering external power amps.
I’m temporarily testing for a friend of mine the $499 Emotiva UPA-700 Seven-Channel Power Amplifier as seen on the bottom of my rack. I’m using my Denon AVR 4520ci as a preamp only. I had to remove my 2 channel MX-1 amp in order to make room for the Emotiva.
Rated at an honest 80watts@8ohms, 100watts@4ohms times 7channels; this amp is remarkably tight, clean and dynamic. I’m amazed that even in the preamp configuration; the 4520 is still running about three times warmer than the UPA-700. It is obvious the 80watts/Emotiva is more pronounced than the 150watts/Denon. As a matter of fact, I’m tempted to buy the 200/300watt XPA-5 for keeps.

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa700

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa5

I’m still waiting for the UMC-200 to show up before I can a final judgment. I’m very curious about any hiss noise and its ability to perform accurate room equalization.
I’ll keep you informed…

http://shop.emotiva.com/products/umc200
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