The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 112 - AVS Forum
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post #3331 of 8886 Old 03-08-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Anyone here made the jump to the 4520 from the 4311 and regretted whether it be for the lack of the tiniest feature/s, not happy with the remote etc , or happy as a clam by their decision.

Or should I just save my money being that I own a 5.1 setup.

Oh before I forget I know you can do a comparison type chart over on the Denon site, but is there one here on the thread.


Thanks


Djoel
I upgraded from the 4311. I only really miss the channel level quick setting.

I have 11.2 and upgraded because I wanted Neo:X. If I only had 5.1, I wouldn't see a reason to upgrade.

You should get some more speakers. smile.gif
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post #3332 of 8886 Old 03-08-2013, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Anyone here made the jump to the 4520 from the 4311 and regretted whether it be for the lack of the tiniest feature/s, not happy with the remote etc , or happy as a clam by their decision.

Or should I just save my money being that I own a 5.1 setup.

Oh before I forget I know you can do a comparison type chart over on the Denon site, but is there one here on the thread.


Thanks


Djoel

Hey Dan,

I'm holding on to my 4311 till the price of the 4520 hits $1200 wink.gif. Even then I'm not sure if I would switch from the 4311. I think you should hold on to your 4311 and spend the upgrade money on SACDs biggrin.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

I upgraded from the 4311. I only really miss the channel level quick setting.

I have 11.2 and upgraded because I wanted Neo:X. If I only had 5.1, I wouldn't see a reason to upgrade.

You should get some more speakers. smile.gif

I would really miss the on the fly channel level settings. Has anyone ever tried the 4311's remote with the 4520 to see if the channel level function works? I only have a 5.1 system so the 4520 might be overkill when I already have the 4311.


Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #3333 of 8886 Old 03-08-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

I upgraded from the 4311. I only really miss the channel level quick setting.

I have 11.2 and upgraded because I wanted Neo:X. If I only had 5.1, I wouldn't see a reason to upgrade.

You should get some more speakers. smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Hey Dan,

I'm holding on to my 4311 till the price of the 4520 hits $1200 wink.gif. Even then I'm not sure if I would switch from the 4311. I think you should hold on to your 4311 and spend the upgrade money on SACDs biggrin.gif.
I would really miss the on the fly channel level settings. Has anyone ever tried the 4311's remote with the 4520 to see if the channel level function works? I only have a 5.1 system so the 4520 might be overkill when I already have the 4311.


Bill

Thanks Dreamliner, I would hate to loose the Channel quick setting even though I do use it, I think...



As usual Bill you're absolutely make tons of sense, and dollars biggrin.gif

You know there us always that nagging feeling, I do feel this AVR 4311 is as completely as I would ever get, but thought that the 4520 would push the limits..

Dan
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post #3334 of 8886 Old 03-08-2013, 10:09 PM
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As far as the Heat, Mine runs very Cool, barley gets warm. I removed my Outlaw Power amp too and this gets pretty dang Loud. I know the 150 watt discrete amps ain't Pumping 150 watts Continuous too. But its Good Enough.. . Im usually play at Leval -24 when Wife & Kids home and -18 to -12 db when Im Alone . Today I took it to 0db for first time and WOW !! eek.gif you can here 3-4 houses down the Street biggrin.gif..
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post #3335 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Anyone here made the jump to the 4520 from the 4311 and regretted whether it be for the lack of the tiniest feature/s, not happy with the remote etc , or happy as a clam by their decision.
Or should I just save my money being that I own a 5.1 setup.Djoel
Djoel, I gave the A100/4311->4520 some serious consideration. Here's my take.

PQ:
Not sure if 4520> 4311 but I don't really care about that as I have a newer 8000 series 65" Samsung TV that does fab video processing.
I won't care about 4K for years.

SQ:
The 4311 set a pretty high bar for SQ and the major breaktrough with DSPRC= XT32 is equal in both models.

I run 7.2 DSX wides and really enjoy my all-Dali system for film and MC music. I have no plans for Neo:X.
I'm not sure if the 32/192 DAC's and corresponding upgrades to AL32 processing and DDSC-HD32 circuitry matters. Theoretically that might yield subtle SQ improvements for critical listening of well-recorded material-and I'd be interested in that. But we have only a very few reports of 4311->4520 upgrade and no one did a rapid A/B/A comparison. Subtle SQ differences do not hold up reliably with long term auditory memory.

Network audio supports 192/24 FLAC and WAV streams-the same comments apply as for the DACs.

OTHER FACTORS/ distinct negatives to the upgrade that held me back:
To continue to enjoy the SQ of DenonLink, I'd have to to buy an expensive new DenonLinkHD player. I'd have the hassle of selling an AVR and a player. I'd also have to buy a new Audyssey Pro license ($150) for the 4520. Those were really the deal breakers for me.

Loss of some small features that I enjoy, like the display and quick ch level adjustments (not really a deal-breaker).

Oh, BTW IMO if you don't have Audyssey Pro, you should consider it.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3336 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Djoel, I gave the A100/4311->4520 some serious consideration. Here's my take.

PQ:
Not sure if 4520> 4311 but I don't really care about that as I have a newer 8000 series 65" Samsung TV that does fab video processing.
I won't care about 4K for years.

SQ:
The 4311 set a pretty high bar for SQ and the major breaktrough with DSPRC= XT32 is equal in both models.

I run 7.2 DSX wides and really enjoy my all-Dali system for film and MC music. I have no plans for Neo:X.
I'm not sure if the 32/192 DAC's and corresponding upgrades to AL32 processing and DDSC-HD32 circuitry matters. Theoretically that might yield subtle SQ improvements for critical listening of well-recorded material-and I'd be interested in that. But we have only a very few reports of 4311->4520 upgrade and no one did a rapid A/B/A comparison. Subtle SQ differences do not hold up reliably with long term auditory memory.

Network audio supports 192/24 FLAC and WAV streams-the same comments apply as for the DACs.

OTHER FACTORS/ distinct negatives to the upgrade that held me back:
To continue to enjoy the SQ of DenonLink, I'd have to to buy an expensive new DenonLinkHD player. I'd have the hassle of selling an AVR and a player. I'd also have to buy a new Audyseey Pro license ($150) for the 4520. That is really a deal breaker for me.

Loss of some small features that I enjoy, like the display and quick ch level adjustments (not really a deal-breaker).

Oh, BTW IMO if you don't have Audyssey Pro, you should consider it.


Thank you for taking the moment to answer some of my concerns and you and the others have made me take a step back off the ledge biggrin.gif, my system isn't as elaborate as yours and others on here so it's just fitting to look else where on what would my next upgrade would be..

And no I don't have Audyssey Pro, but I've been definitely have been thinking of it, I'm thinking once I move perhaps in the next 8 to 12m hopefully.

Thank you again bud

Daniel
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post #3337 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Anyone here made the jump to the 4520 from the 4311 and regretted whether it be for the lack of the tiniest feature/s, not happy with the remote etc , or happy as a clam by their decision.

Or should I just save my money being that I own a 5.1 setup.

Oh before I forget I know you can do a comparison type chart over on the Denon site, but is there one here on the thread.


Thanks


Djoel

Hey Dan,

I'm holding on to my 4311 till the price of the 4520 hits $1200 wink.gif. Even then I'm not sure if I would switch from the 4311. I think you should hold on to your 4311 and spend the upgrade money on SACDs biggrin.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

I upgraded from the 4311. I only really miss the channel level quick setting.

I have 11.2 and upgraded because I wanted Neo:X. If I only had 5.1, I wouldn't see a reason to upgrade.

You should get some more speakers. smile.gif

I would really miss the on the fly channel level settings. Has anyone ever tried the 4311's remote with the 4520 to see if the channel level function works? I only have a 5.1 system so the 4520 might be overkill when I already have the 4311.


Bill

Yes the CH level button has been tested by several (myself included) on the new mods. It doesn't work, the pop up menu doesn't exist anymore.

Discrete ch volume commands from a universal remote do work though. But I agree for a 5ch setup swapping from the 4311 to the 4520 prob doesn't make sense unless you will really use some of those extra features.

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post #3338 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 08:15 AM
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^And I forgot to mention that I don't want to give up the gold speaker terminals, iron feet and the special capacitor found in the my Anniv Edition AVR-A100. I don't know why 4520 owners are forced to suffer these indignities.
wink.gif
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post #3339 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 08:51 AM
 
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I heard the iron feet help reduce the vibrations into the unit, which reduces some of the jittery sounds in music you hear with the lower end AVRs. Unless you get a much better aftermarket power cord, though, it will be offset by the dirty power you draw into the A1. The gold connectors cannot make up for the dirty power, though they tend to smooth it slightly.
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post #3340 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 09:10 AM
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^Good points.
Few realize that The Anniv Edition gold nameplate itself has a distinct effect on SQ, particularly symbols, err.. I mean cymbals...
but my plan is to pry it off and glue it onto my next AVR.wink.gif

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post #3341 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Yes the CH level button has been tested by several (myself included) on the new mods. It doesn't work, the pop up menu doesn't exist anymore.

Discrete ch volume commands from a universal remote do work though. But I agree for a 5ch setup swapping from the 4311 to the 4520 prob doesn't make sense unless you will really use some of those extra features.

Thanks that makes a whole lot of sense for my situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^And I forgot to mention that I don't want to give up the gold speaker terminals, iron feet and the special capacitor found in the my Anniv Edition AVR-A100. I don't know why 4520 owners are forced to suffer these indignities.
wink.gif

Hockey puck, I rather use my magic bricks on top of my Denon to purge out all impurities in the signal...wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I heard the iron feet help reduce the vibrations into the unit, which reduces some of the jittery sounds in music you hear with the lower end AVRs. Unless you get a much better aftermarket power cord, though, it will be offset by the dirty power you draw into the A1. The gold connectors cannot make up for the dirty power, though they tend to smooth it slightly.



Hope you're being fictitious eek.gifbiggrin.gif

Djoel
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post #3342 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:03 AM
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my 4520ci doesnt pass through 3d signal. the projector is unable to detect. do i have to have any special settings? oppo 103 to projector directly just works fine. thank you in advance.
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post #3343 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FlatRocky View Post

my 4520ci doesnt pass through 3d signal. the projector is unable to detect. do i have to have any special settings? oppo 103 to projector directly just works fine. thank you in advance.

Hello,
I have not experienced any issues passing 3D through the 4520. Granted, I only watched a few minutes of something 3D from Comcast On Demand, but the 4520 handles 3D just fine. What are your video settings on your 4520 and what PJ are you using?
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post #3344 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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Also, should it for some reason not work, you could always connect HDMI 1 to the PJ and send HDMI 2 to the Denon. Might also provide you with a better picture.

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post #3345 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:27 AM
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Not sure if this HTS review of the 4520 (with comparisons to the 4311 and Onk5508) has been linked here, so here it is:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/av-receivers-preamps-processors-amplifier-reviews/65664-denon-avr-4520ci-receiver-review.html

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post #3346 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatRocky View Post

my 4520ci doesnt pass through 3d signal. the projector is unable to detect. do i have to have any special settings? oppo 103 to projector directly just works fine. thank you in advance.

I have the same set up;

Try unplug the 4520 for a few minutes and start again.
Make sure you see:
Video/HDMI Setup
Video output MONITOR 1
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post #3347 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Also, should it for some reason not work, you could always connect HDMI 1 to the PJ and send HDMI 2 to the Denon. Might also provide you with a better picture.

This is the ultimate picture quality but you won’t be able to see the Denon’s menu and settings unless you have another small monitor on the side.
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post #3348 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 11:16 AM
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Hey, anyone have a problem with low pre out volume scales on their 4520cis? I am using my 4520ci as a preamp only and am cranking it at 60 (0 to 99 scale) to really get any nice volume out of it. It is being used as a pre for 3 Emotiva x series amps so there is no lack of available power on the amp side. I know the amps and speakers are capable of much more because before the 4520ci came I hooked up the amps directly to the analog outs on my Key Digitial matrix switcher and the volume range was crushing on the Key Digital controls. I have the audio level outs of the Key Digital set to 95% but am still on the factory default input levels for the Denon. Should I just crank up the Denon input levels all the way? Very surprised on how little push I am getting here from the set up and am wondering if I am missing something on the Denon set up or my Denon has a defect. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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post #3349 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 11:49 AM
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Are all the zones (main and 2-4) to be active after startup? Every time try to use instaprevue I get message saying "Instaprevue is not available when zone4 is active" . Only way to get it working is to use the remote, change zone and one by one shut down other zones. When I restart they come back on. Should it be like that? I cant find any setting that would prevent all zones to be active on start-up. I only need the main-zone. I use logitech touch remote so it is possible that it commands all zone on? 4520 own remote can start only the selected active zone (M-letter on display ie.)?

::Edit I think I solved the problem by myself. I write it here because someone else might have this problem..

Problem was that universal remote default ON-command activates all zones. Original remote has option to choose different zones. All zones have diffrent ON-commands. So I manually (using IR) set Main zone ON command to remote. After that it only starts the Main zone as it should.
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post #3350 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pgor888 View Post

Hey, anyone have a problem with low pre out volume scales on their 4520cis? I am using my 4520ci as a preamp only and am cranking it at 60 (0 to 99 scale) to really get any nice volume out of it. It is being used as a pre for 3 Emotiva x series amps so there is no lack of available power on the amp side. I know the amps and speakers are capable of much more because before the 4520ci came I hooked up the amps directly to the analog outs on my Key Digitial matrix switcher and the volume range was crushing on the Key Digital controls. I have the audio level outs of the Key Digital set to 95% but am still on the factory default input levels for the Denon. Should I just crank up the Denon input levels all the way? Very surprised on how little push I am getting here from the set up and am wondering if I am missing something on the Denon set up or my Denon has a defect. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Audyssey does a good job setting speakers level but you may increase them manually.
I’m temporarily using an 80watts seven channel Emotiva UPA-700. I limited the volume 80 max. At 75 I watch movies very loud and clear. I listen to internet radio multi-channel very pleasantly set at 35.
I was very impressed when Audyssey detected one of my speakers out of phase during set up. Sure enough I had the right main wires plugged incorrectly when I hooked the power amp.
Also, I found out that Audyssey needs to be re calibrated if the speaker’s setting was changed from amp to pre amp in order to regain all Audyssey enhancement features.
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post #3351 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorGuy View Post

Are all the zones (main and 2-4) to active after startup? Every time try to use instaprevue I get message saying "Instaprevue is not available when zone4 is active" . Only way to get it working is to use the remote, change zone and one by one shut down other zones. When I restart they come back on. Should it be like that? I cant find any setting that would prevent all zones to be active on start-up. I only need the main-zone. I use logitech touch remote so it is possible that it commands all zone on? 4520 own remote can start only the selected active zone (M-letter on display ie.)?

::Edit I think I solved the problem by myself. I write it here because someone else might have this problem..

Problem was that universal remote default ON-command activates all zones. Original remote has option to choose different zones. All zones have diffrent ON-commands. So I manually (using IR) set Main zone ON command to remote. After that it only starts the Main zone as it should.

I use only the main zone. I seem to get the other zones turned on inadvertently once every while using different remote controlls which prevents the receiver from shutting down when I’m done with it. The no brainer procure (especially after a few drinks in the dark) is to reach up to the left side of the front panel and push each zone OFF one by one. By doing so, I can turn the receiver fully OFF and On with or without the remote control.
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post #3352 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 12:26 PM
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I left the OFF-command as it was. Probably it works as all-off command. ON-command is set to MAIN-ON and OFF command has been left to logitech default ALL-OFF. So that way if mistakenly other zones get activeted during use they will be shutted off anyway.

I have been using the universal remote from the beginning. That is why I didnt understand why all the zones are on. By using only the original remote you dont get this problem. Took me a while to understand how it should be working. I still use the original remote, but mostly for settings and detailed stuff.
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post #3353 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. I have Dali Euphonia MS5s (3 way, dual 8" woofs)...Audyssey says Large of course. I manually reset them to Small. Nice to meet you. wink.gif

Q. Why don't I run those #152 beautiful monsters full range? After all, I drive em with a class D Halcro MC30, plenty of power for bass.
A. My fam rm/HT does not have bass traps and has very lumpy bass. The FR/L speakers are placed for optimal soundstage/imaging. The subs are placed for optimally smooth bass. Small yields tighter, punchier bass. Yum. smile.gif

While this is certainly true in your case there are many other cases in which running speakers as "full" is better. In my case I run 2 Mythos ST's in front and 2 Mythos STS's in back and they are all set to full. It sounds amazing.

Also, I hope prospective buyers of this AVR take some of the comments in this thread with a grain of salt. I am a happy owner of the Denon 4520 and I've tested it with and without an external amp. The differences are minimal, it runs barely warm and has been reliable. I would never consider buying something like an AVR over the internet or from an unauthorized dealer just to save a couple hundred bucks.
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post #3354 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 01:22 PM
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While this is certainly true in your case there are many other cases in which running speakers as "full" is better. In my case I run 2 Mythos ST's in front and 2 Mythos STS's in back and they are all set to full. It sounds amazing.

There are fundamental basics on why not to run speakers as Large. Should you be interested you may click on the relevant link in my sig. smile.gif
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post #3355 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:01 PM
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Feri, BTW that particular essay is slightly misleading in this context as XT32 has the same EQ capability in the sat chs as in the sub ch. The other advantages of the Small setting have been reiterated recently on this thread as part of the discussion.

Garden, I don't assert that everyone will prefer Small. I was simply pointing out that despite my having extremely capable speakers and amp (in addition to XT32) and thus removing some common and very good reasons for running Small, that there is yet another reason to do so and it helps my SQ. smile.gif

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post #3356 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, anyone have a problem with low pre out volume scales on their 4520cis? I am using my 4520ci as a preamp only and am cranking it at 60 (0 to 99 scale) to really get any nice volume out of it.

Not a problem, that's normal operation. After Audyssey calibration 80 is reference, so 60 is 20db softer than reference. Turn it up! smile.gif

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post #3357 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:12 PM
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Feri, BTW that particular essay is slightly misleading in this context as XT32 has the same EQ capability in the sat chs as in the sub ch. The other advantages of the Small setting have been reiterated recently on this thread as part of the discussion.

You are absolutely right SoM when it comes to talk about filter resolutions of different flavors of Audyssey. But IMHO that fact does not negate the other fact in Chris's blog that our ears start to loose directionality below 80 Hz(ish) frequencies. I'm really confident it works that way not only in a HT system with AVRs and AVPs, but also in the real world. Or in other words, the phenomenon is not related to electronics of any kind, it's a pure "psychoacoustial" thing. smile.gif
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post #3358 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:38 PM
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Something crossed my mind. All of my speakers have built in sub woofers so maybe this is why it works so well in my case.
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post #3359 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

You are absolutely right SoM when it comes to talk about filter resolutions of different flavors of Audyssey. But IMHO that fact does not negate the other fact in Chris's blog that our ears start to loose directionality below 80 Hz(ish) frequencies. I'm really confident it works that way not only in a HT system with AVRs and AVPs, but also in the real world. Or in other words, the phenomenon is not related to electronics of any kind, it's a pure "psychoacoustial" thing. smile.gif
Agreed. There are many reasons Small is usually better. XT32 eliminates only one very significant reason, important for those using MultEQ or MultEQXT.

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post #3360 of 8886 Old 03-09-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post

Something crossed my mind. All of my speakers have built in sub woofers so maybe this is why it works so well in my case.
Right. And you may have fortuitous room position working for you as well.
To each his own, YMMV, vive la difference and all that. smile.gif

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