The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

It is not the Power Toggle command you want to change, it is the Power On command.  Follow these steps:

- Launch the Harmony desktop app.
- Click the Devices tab.
- For the Denon 4520 device, select “Learn IR”.
- Select the default Power On command (should be the second command in the list), and click “Learn”.
- Learn the Power On command from your original 4520 remote.







Now, whenever you select an activity, the 4520 will be powered on using this command, which powers on the Main Zone only.

Unfortunately, since I don't use multiple zones, I can't help you with the zone issues.

AustinJerry

Many thanks, I will try it out.

I am Ok with the other zones for the moment , I have an IPad and can use the Denon App to selectivley switch zones on and off when required.
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post #3422 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 06:47 AM
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I am planning on using this receiver for 11.2 setup (7 pre outs for front stage), and the built in amp for side and rear surrounds. I am not sure if I can also use Zone 2, 3 or 4 with this setup. The manual describes multi-zone setup for only 7.x setups. Any thoughts on how this might be possible? Thank you
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post #3423 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

New Firmware Update

Post #4 updated with the latest firmware changelog information. smile.gif

Thank you for adding the update. After reading the release note, it appears the HDMI output issue I saw being discussed has been fixed.
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post #3424 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

I mentioned before I was told by Denon rep my eBay seller is not an authorized dealer. But the seller assured me he was an authorized dealer. He offered to take it back if I paid for the shipping but there was no guarantee a replacement unit won’t have other problems…
I will be receiving a UMC-200 tomorrow to test for a friend.
http://hometheaterreview.com/emotiva-umc-200-71-channel-av-preamp-reviewed/
If I like it, I’m considering replacing the 4520 with one and using my old (12Amp-1,440watts) Denon AVR-5803 purely as a seven-amp power amplifier.
I hate to say this; I’ve been a loyal Denon customer for more than 15 years. I doubt I’ll ever buy another Denon again.
I think the best way to go is a stand alone pre-pro with separate power amplifiers.

When you say you will use your 5803 as an amp, are you talking about just running your new processor's preouts to the multichannel input of the 5803, or is there some other method to accomplish this?
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post #3425 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

I think the most ridiculous HDMI incompatability I expereinced was back in 2006 when my Toshiba HDDVD player was incompatible with the Toshiba HDTV I had at the time, although it got resolved in relatively short order it's kind of ridiculous that companies don't always even ensure that a device works wtih other devices they produce.

Ha, I had the same issue, well sort of. I had the HD-A1 player connected to my Samsung plasma. Did you have that one, or that other $800 beast from Toshiba? My plasma was a second gen from 2004, so it predated all of the CEC requirements. I had to plug the HD-A1 directly to the set. Using an HDMI switcher, or even my Sony upconverting 1080i DVD player would not work and would show a blank screen.

In my opinion, 2006 was really the start of the whole HDMI bugs with the release of these HD players. Strange how almost 7 years later we still have an HDMI issue of some sort. I sometimes miss the stability of component analog.
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post #3426 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

When you say you will use your 5803 as an amp, are you talking about just running your new processor's preouts to the multichannel input of the 5803, or is there some other method to accomplish this?

that's how I use my Pioneer SC-09's amps with the new SC-68. multichannel inputs...he'll just have to turn off ALL processing, calibration, etc. in the 5803 and turn its volume up to at least 0.0 dB, use it in Pure Direct mode only.

Steve
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post #3427 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 09:29 AM
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I bought USB Fan and trying to get it working. Front panel USB connector is always on (amp is in stand-by mode, remote control off) and back USB seems to be always OFF (even with amp ON. WTF?!?). Is there a setting for these USB connector how they power-up? This makes no sense to me.
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post #3428 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 09:34 AM
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post #3392 seems to have no issue maybe ask him

Analog :Preamp: NOS Valves NBS Preamplifier, Amps: NOS Valves VRD mono blocks - VPI Classic 2 Soundsmith Zephyr MK/II VPI 16.5
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post #3429 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

When you say you will use your 5803 as an amp, are you talking about just running your new processor's preouts to the multichannel input of the 5803, or is there some other method to accomplish this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

that's how I use my Pioneer SC-09's amps with the new SC-68. multichannel inputs...he'll just have to turn off ALL processing, calibration, etc. in the 5803 and turn its volume up to at least 0.0 dB, use it in Pure Direct mode only.

Exactly correct what SS9001 wrote.
Denon AVR-5803 THX ULTRA has two analogue 7.1 “External In”. I used one for pure SACD inputs.
This receiver has slightly bigger toroidal transformer than Emotiva XPA-5.
Here is XPA-5 rating:
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa5
Power output (all channels driven):
300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

This should give you an idea what I expected from Denon’s traditional flagship over the years and was never disappointed until now.
I’ve seen the 5803 on eBay selling for a few hundred dollars. It’s such a bargain to be used as a serious seven channel power amp with a clean external pre-pro HDMI switcher.



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post #3430 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorGuy View Post

I bought USB Fan and trying to get it working. Front panel USB connector is always on (amp is in stand-by mode, remote control off) and back USB seems to be always OFF (even with amp ON. WTF?!?). Is there a setting for these USB connector how they power-up? This makes no sense to me.

There is a setting to toggle which USB input is used (front/rear), you can't use both at the same time.

Either way, the USB input stays active if network standby is enabled (the USB and network inputs are linked).

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post #3431 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorGuy View Post

I bought USB Fan and trying to get it working. Front panel USB connector is always on (amp is in stand-by mode, remote control off) and back USB seems to be always OFF (even with amp ON. WTF?!?). Is there a setting for these USB connector how they power-up? This makes no sense to me.

P.76 of OM, "Setting the USB port to use (USB Select)".
Press OPTION.
The option menu screen is displayed.
2 Use ui to select “USB Select”, then press ENTER.
3 Use up and down to select the USB port to use.
Front Uses the USB port on the front panel.
Rear Uses the USB port on the rear panel.
4 Press ENTER.
The display returns to the playback screen.
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post #3432 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

I was hoping the update would take care of the HDMI out issue but it didn’t. I had to unplug/re-plug the receiver again this morning in order to allow the HDMI signal to go through to the projector although all was working fine last night when I turned the system off.
I’m suspecting it’s an HDMI switching bug. I turned the “HDMI pass through” to off now hopefully it works the way it should when I turn it on tomorrow.

This is a follow up to my above post:
As I mentioned I set “HDMI pass through” to OFF yesterday. I turned my system on today and the HDMI signal went through the 4520 to the projector without a glitch.
As I had suspected, it’s an HDMI switching glitch in the 4520 when “HDMI pass through” is set to ON.
I don’t need it ON but this is a classic example of a bell or a whistle that I don’t need but it can make someone’s life frustrating.
Cheers!
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post #3433 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Although it's not likely to be productive to discuss this with you considering your "blame everything on the the 4520" mentality, the truth is that it's not necessarily a "glitch" with the receiver, with HDMI switching it's almost impossible to figure out which component is at fault. With the pass through turned OFF the devices get to completely renegotiate the handshake when you power on, which apparently resolves whatever issue you were having.

Many, many people use the standby passthrough feature without issue. In your specific setup, with your specific combination of components, you encounter a glitch when you have this feature enabled. So is it the receiver's fault? Or is it the PJ's fault? Or is it just HDMI's fault for being an f'ing stupid, buggy format that requires these handshake shenanigans?

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post #3434 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Although it's not likely to be productive to discuss this with you considering your "blame everything on the the 4520" mentality, the truth is that it's not necessarily a "glitch" with the receiver, with HDMI switching it's almost impossible to figure out which component is at fault. With the pass through turned OFF the devices get to completely renegotiate the handshake when you power on, which apparently resolves whatever issue you were having.

Many, many people use the standby passthrough feature without issue. In your specific setup, with your specific combination of components, you encounter a glitch when you have this feature enabled. So is it the receiver's fault? Or is it the PJ's fault? Or is it just HDMI's fault for being an f'ing stupid, buggy format that requires these handshake shenanigans?

I might be wrong that’s why I suspect things first and give them the benefit of the doubt before I come to a conclusion.
The fact that when I had the “HDMI pass through” set to ON giving me problems, all I had to do was unplug and re-plug the Denon-AVR-4520ci, listen to it’s clicking sounds and see the picture AND sound alive all over again gives me a fair and balanced conclusion who’s the culprit.
I’m not Denon hater you should know that.
I don’t understand why some of us here don’t want to know the truth especially when it’s the only way to fix a problem.
Cheers Again!
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post #3435 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, but I fail to see how that in any way allows you to conclude the Denon is at fault. When you unplug/reboot the receiver, then the HDMI handshake is completely reset and things work normally. Great. That doesn't mean the Denon was at fault for the initial error. All we know is that forcing a new handshake resolves the temporary glitch.

Turning off HDMI standby passthrough also allows the handshake to be severed and renegotiated when you power back on, so neither one is more conclusive then the other. In both cases, allowing the handshake to sever and renegotiate fixes the problem. I would bet other similar techniques (e.g. unplugging the HDMI cable and plugging it back in, or rebooting the PJ) might fix the glitch too.

It could just as easily be some setting on the PJ that causes the handshake to not renegotiate properly when the received is woken up from standby. For example, this often happens with Samsung displays, and turning off HDMI-CEC (Anynet+) in the Samsung allows the standby passthrough to function properly. Who was at "fault"? IMO it's impossible to know, because HDMI is stupid. Does your PJ have any HDMI-CEC settings?

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post #3436 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Sorry, but I fail to see how that in any way allows you to conclude the Denon is at fault. When you unplug/reboot the receiver, then the HDMI handshake is completely reset and things work normally. Great. That doesn't mean the Denon was at fault for the initial error. All we know is that forcing a new handshake resolves the temporary glitch.

Turning off HDMI standby passthrough also allows the handshake to be severed and renegotiated when you power back on, so neither one is more conclusive then the other. In both cases, allowing the handshake to sever and renegotiate fixes the problem. I would bet other similar techniques (e.g. unplugging the HDMI cable and plugging it back in, or rebooting the PJ) might fix the glitch too.

It could just as easily be some setting on the PJ that causes the handshake to not renegotiate properly when the received is woken up from standby. For example, this often happens with Samsung displays, and turning off HDMI-CEC (Anynet+) in the Samsung allows the standby passthrough to function properly. Who was at "fault"? IMO it's impossible to know, because HDMI is stupid. Does your PJ have any HDMI-CEC settings?

Instead of becoming defensive, let’s share our information and come to reasonable conclusion. After all, all I’m trying to do here is share may experience with those who might have a similar problem that I was able to fix and vice versa.
Needless to say I fixed this particular problem but let me give you the full picture and let you decide if I’m being reasonable with my judgment.
Besides the projector, I’m using a small TV monitor with composite video connection for setups as an alternative to turning the projector on when I don’t need it
The glitch I was having when I had “HDMI pass through” set to “ON” happen with or without the PJ turned ON. The analogue signal to the small monitor didn’t work either and the 4520 didn’t process any sound not only from the blu ray player but from its own internet radio.
This sounds very weird because the “HDMI pass trough” switching seems to affect all inputs and outputs, video and audio processing inside the 4520…

...It just occurred to me if “Power off Control” on that same HDMI page has something to do with the issue but I’m not going to mess with it anymore.
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post #3437 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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About to buy this receiver, and just want to verify a few things. Looking to have two independent video zones going at the same time with a third audio only zone. The first video zone will include audio of 5.1, the second video zone will include 2.0 or possibly 2.1, and the audio only zone will be 2.0. All 3 zones must be able to work at the same exact time. Will this receiver suffice? Also, there are multiple Ethernet ports in this device, what is the point of all these ports? Does it effectively act as a switch? One more question, how much space inside the cabinet will this thing need? I am going to have a cabinet custom built, and I would like to build it to give the receiver ample room to breathe.
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post #3438 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

Needless to say I fixed this particular problem but let me give you the full picture and let you decide if I’m being reasonable with my judgment.
Besides the projector, I’m using a small TV monitor with composite video connection for setups as an alternative to turning the projector on when I don’t need it
The glitch I was having when I had “HDMI pass through” set to “ON” happen with or without the PJ turned ON. The analogue signal to the small monitor didn’t work either and the 4520 didn’t process any sound not only from the blu ray player but from its own internet radio.
This sounds very weird because the “HDMI pass trough” switching seems to affect all inputs and outputs, video and audio processing inside the 4520…

To be clear, so I understand correctly, this issue only popped up when the receiver was woken up from Standby, correct? Things would be working normally, you would power off for the night, come back the next day, and then the receiver woke up it... didn't. Nothing would work until you reset / unplugged. Do I have this right?

If so, it still isn't necessarily the fault of the receiver. It sounds like some aspect of the HDMI chain obviously was causing the receiver to fail to "wake" from the Standby mode and become active with video/audio output. Analog video output doesn't work when the receiver is in Standby either... so something was preventing it from "thinking" it had actually woken up. Obviously, you have found that severing the HDMI-CEC link by turning off HDMI Control in the receiver resolved this, but I still don't think that necessarily makes the receiver 100% at fault. You don't seem to require HDMI Control and so you have found a solution that works for you, but some further testing might clarify. For example, if the PJ or some other component in your setup also has HDMI-CEC, it could be the root culprit.

I'm not trying to be "defensive" or claim that Denon is without fault, but rather make the point that HDMI is a stupid, buggy and non-robust format for which the "benefits" of things like HDMI-CEC often cause as many problems as they solve. It's tempting to always "blame" the new component in the system but tracking down the ultimate fault for the glitch is very tough.

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post #3439 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrogant View Post

About to buy this receiver, and just want to verify a few things. Looking to have two independent video zones going at the same time with a third audio only zone. The first video zone will include audio of 5.1, the second video zone will include 2.0 or possibly 2.1, and the audio only zone will be 2.0. All 3 zones must be able to work at the same exact time. Will this receiver suffice? Also, there are multiple Ethernet ports in this device, what is the point of all these ports? Does it effectively act as a switch? One more question, how much space inside the cabinet will this thing need? I am going to have a cabinet custom built, and I would like to build it to give the receiver ample room to breathe.

I suggest you spend some time reading through this thread. Don't have to read EVERY post, but devoting an hour of your life before you drop $2k on a product will yield a lot of benefit. For example, heat / ventilation has been discussed ad nauseum, and the existence of the 4-port ethernet hub is noted right at the beginning of the thread. You'll learn a lot of stuff you may not have even thought of. I would suggest starting from the beginning and reading for a while until it gets repetitive, and then skipping forward and just reading the past few hundred posts to catch up to current stuff.

Anyway, here's the deal:

- Easy one first... yes, the multiple ethernet ports are because there is a built-in network hub.

- If you are building a custom cabinet, I would integrate ACTIVE cooling as part of the design. Integrate some fans to exhaust heat. This will be beneficial regardless of what components you add in the future (e.g. amps, HTPCs, game systems, etc). With a good system, you will probably be fine leaving an inch or two on either side of the unit and 3-4 inches on top.

- The audio-only zone is pretty straightforward. That's a standard multizone implementation, just be aware of the limitation that only analog audio and internally tuned network sources can be output as Zone audio. So HDMI or digital audio sources will not be accessible; for these inputs, if you want them available to other zones you will have to "double connect" with standard analog RCA's in parallel with the digital connection. You CAN play digital sources to other zones using the "All Zone Stereo" party mode function, but it requires all zones to be synced to the same source, so for independent function you need the analog cables. If the audio only zone will basically just be outputting network audio (e.g. Pandora, Internet radio, streamed audio from a media server) then it's a moot point, no extra cabling needed.

- The video zone is a little trickier. The 4520 has a total of four independent zones, Main Zone plus three others. Zone 2 and Zone 3 are standard zones, which can output stereo audio as described above, and can also output component video. However, there is NO video conversion to these zones, so utilizing the component video output will require component video connections from the sources. Thus, not very practical with modern setups where it is assumed that all video is HDM sourced. The Zone 4 output is actually a built-in HDMI matrix switch; it can output any HDMI input independently from the Main Zone. However, it is just a *switch*, it does not process the signal (e.g. no audio processing and amplification) so utilizing the Zone 4 matrix HDMI output will require an additional "HDMI sink" to receive and process the signal.

So for your setup, assuming you will have all HDMI video sources for the second video zone (making the component video output to Zone 2/3 a non starter), you have the following basic options:

OPTION 1) If you don't need fancy audio in the second video zone, connect the Zone 4 HDMI output directly to a HDMI display. You can watch one HDMI source in the Main Zone with surround sound, and another HDMI source on the other TV using basic TV audio. If you want better audio, use the audio output of the TV itself to drive a soundbar or a pair of speakers.

OPTION 2) If you want more audio capability in the second video zone, connect the Zone 4 HDMI output to a second HDMI receiver, which will be the audio/video hub for that zone.

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post #3440 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I suggest you spend some time reading through this thread. Don't have to read EVERY post, but devoting an hour of your life before you drop $2k on a product will yield a lot of benefit. For example, heat / ventilation has been discussed ad nauseum, and the existence of the 4-port ethernet hub is noted right at the beginning of the thread. You'll learn a lot of stuff you may not have even thought of. I would suggest starting from the beginning and reading for a while until it gets repetitive, and then skipping forward and just reading the past few hundred posts to catch up to current stuff.

Anyway, here's the deal:

- Easy one first... yes, the multiple ethernet ports are because there is a built-in network hub.

- If you are building a custom cabinet, I would integrate ACTIVE cooling as part of the design. Integrate some fans to exhaust heat. This will be beneficial regardless of what components you add in the future (e.g. amps, HTPCs, game systems, etc). With a good system, you will probably be fine leaving an inch or two on either side of the unit and 3-4 inches on top.

- The audio-only zone is pretty straightforward. That's a standard multizone implementation, just be aware of the limitation that only analog audio and internally tuned network sources can be output as Zone audio. So HDMI or digital audio sources will not be accessible; for these inputs, if you want them available to other zones you will have to "double connect" with standard analog RCA's in parallel with the digital connection. You CAN play digital sources to other zones using the "All Zone Stereo" party mode function, but it requires all zones to be synced to the same source, so for independent function you need the analog cables. If the audio only zone will basically just be outputting network audio (e.g. Pandora, Internet radio, streamed audio from a media server) then it's a moot point, no extra cabling needed.

- The video zone is a little trickier. The 4520 has a total of four independent zones, Main Zone plus three others. Zone 2 and Zone 3 are standard zones, which can output stereo audio as described above, and can also output component video. However, there is NO video conversion to these zones, so utilizing the component video output will require component video connections from the sources. Thus, not very practical with modern setups where it is assumed that all video is HDM sourced. The Zone 4 output is actually a built-in HDMI matrix switch; it can output any HDMI input independently from the Main Zone. However, it is just a *switch*, it does not process the signal (e.g. no audio processing and amplification) so utilizing the Zone 4 matrix HDMI output will require an additional "HDMI sink" to receive and process the signal.

So for your setup, assuming you will have all HDMI video sources for the second video zone (making the component video output to Zone 2/3 a non starter), you have the following basic options:

OPTION 1) If you don't need fancy audio in the second video zone, connect the Zone 4 HDMI output directly to a HDMI display. You can watch one HDMI source in the Main Zone with surround sound, and another HDMI source on the other TV using basic TV audio. If you want better audio, use the audio output of the TV itself to drive a soundbar or a pair of speakers.

OPTION 2) If you want more audio capability in the second video zone, connect the Zone 4 HDMI output to a second HDMI receiver, which will be the audio/video hub for that zone.


Ugggh, man I thought I read everything, and I thought this receiver would work for the zones I want. Thanks for the help, as I really thought it was capable of doing everything I listed. I am beginning to think no single receiver setup will produce the output I desire. I have checked the onkyo receivers, and they cannot produce the desired output either. Basically, what I wanted to be able to do is use digital inputs for both audio and video in all 3 zones. Basically, the ability to watch a 5.1 movie in the first zone off blu-ray, watch television (by runing hdmi over cat6 to zone 2) in 2.0 thourgh external speakers in the second zone , and listen to a cd player via digital to zone 3 at 2.0. Sounds like this is not possible using the Denon 4520ci alone, but is this possible using any receiver that you know of?
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post #3441 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 01:45 PM
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weird I posted and mods have to review my post? It says I am new? What is going on. I will post again.

So let me ask you this. Do you know of a receiver that will output hdmi video / audio to 2 different zones in 5.1 and 2.0 respectively, and output 2.0 audio to a third zone from a digital source? Is this possible using 1 receiver?
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post #3442 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

...
Zone 2 and Zone 3 are standard zones, which can output stereo audio as described above, and can also output component video. However, there is NO video conversion to these zones, so utilizing the component video output will require component video connections from the sources. Thus, not very practical with modern setups where it is assumed that all video is HDMI sourced.

Great post batpig! Can video sources having both HDMI and component outputs connect both sets to the 4520 and therefore allow 2 component displays and 2 hdmi displays to be driven in parallel?
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post #3443 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 02:08 PM
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To be clear, so I understand correctly, this issue only popped up when the receiver was woken up from Standby, correct? Things would be working normally, you would power off for the night, come back the next day, and then the receiver woke up it... didn't. Nothing would work until you reset / unplugged. Do I have this right?

If so, it still isn't necessarily the fault of the receiver. It sounds like some aspect of the HDMI chain obviously was causing the receiver to fail to "wake" from the Standby mode and become active with video/audio output. Analog video output doesn't work when the receiver is in Standby either... so something was preventing it from "thinking" it had actually woken up. Obviously, you have found that severing the HDMI-CEC link by turning off HDMI Control in the receiver resolved this, but I still don't think that necessarily makes the receiver 100% at fault. You don't seem to require HDMI Control and so you have found a solution that works for you, but some further testing might clarify. For example, if the PJ or some other component in your setup also has HDMI-CEC, it could be the root culprit.

I'm not trying to be "defensive" or claim that Denon is without fault, but rather make the point that HDMI is a stupid, buggy and non-robust format for which the "benefits" of things like HDMI-CEC often cause as many problems as they solve. It's tempting to always "blame" the new component in the system but tracking down the ultimate fault for the glitch is very tough.

Your description is correct.

So, HDMI is stupid….
I hate to play the blame game. All I want is a reliable product. If I buy a Toyota because it’s a reliable name and turns out it has a Chinese transmission that fails randomly, don’t expect me to blame the Chinese for it…
Ironically, The AVR-4520 is supposed to be made in Japan but every component I looked at inside of it is made in China…
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post #3444 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 02:20 PM
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I'm not trying to be "defensive" or claim that Denon is without fault, but rather make the point that HDMI is a stupid, buggy and non-robust format for which the "benefits" of things like HDMI-CEC often cause as many problems as they solve. It's tempting to always "blame" the new component in the system but tracking down the ultimate fault for the glitch is very tough.

I don't own Denon but I couldn't agree with you more. I've read so many posts in Pioneer threads about HDMI related issues, people struggling to make these extra "benefits" work that I gave up trying to respond rolleyes.gif other than basic advice & point them to pages in the manual.

Things like HDMI-CEC, HDMI pass-thru and audio return channel tongue.gif are problematic at best. They are so dependent on which gear is connected and never have worked reliably; people expect it to be plug & play and end up getting pissed off at (fill in the blank) Pioneer, Denon or whoever.

My philosophy for my own setup is to turn all that crap off and use HDMI only for its original purpose...to send HD video & hi-rez audio. The rest is BS bling that has nothing to do with audio & video quality and just frustrates the user when it doesn't work as expected.

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My philosophy for my own setup is to turn all that crap off and use HDMI only for its original purpose...to send HD video & hi-rez audio.

And when possible, separate the audio and video signal even further (as in using a bluray player with dual HDMI outputs).
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post #3446 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 02:36 PM
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^^
I haven't had to do that but there can be a benefit ...minimizes HDCP handshake issues with video through the receiver wink.gif

I also tell people with video issues to try turning the receiver's video processor Off over HDMI. Let the player or display handle the scaling/processing. In the case of Pioneer with an Oppo, both use the same Marvell Qdeo video processor so there is NO advantage of using both at same time. I let the Oppo do the work and if I decide to tweak the PQ, I do it in the Oppo. Simpler, faster, and it doesn't create problems transferring the signal wink.gif

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post #3447 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

...
Zone 2 and Zone 3 are standard zones, which can output stereo audio as described above, and can also output component video. However, there is NO video conversion to these zones, so utilizing the component video output will require component video connections from the sources. Thus, not very practical with modern setups where it is assumed that all video is HDMI sourced.

Great post batpig! Can video sources having both HDMI and component outputs connect both sets to the 4520 and therefore allow 2 component displays and 2 hdmi displays to be driven in parallel?

Yes, if your video source can output HDMI and component simultaneously then you could theoretically "double connect" the source and allow HD video output to all 4 zones.

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weird I posted and mods have to review my post? It says I am new? What is going on. I will post again.

So let me ask you this. Do you know of a receiver that will output hdmi video / audio to 2 different zones in 5.1 and 2.0 respectively, and output 2.0 audio to a third zone from a digital source? Is this possible using 1 receiver?

Stick a DAC on the digital source and either the 3313CI or 4520CI can meet your requirement.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?seq=1&format=2&p_id=6884&CAWELAID=1329453854&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CKTovfjW-rUCFRGqnQodR2EA6A

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Originally Posted by arrogant View Post

weird I posted and mods have to review my post? It says I am new? What is going on. I will post again.

So let me ask you this. Do you know of a receiver that will output hdmi video / audio to 2 different zones in 5.1 and 2.0 respectively, and output 2.0 audio to a third zone from a digital source? Is this possible using 1 receiver?


It really doesn't exist, not within one receiver.

Almost no receivers allow digital audio output to other zones. Some high level Denons in the past allowed 2.0 PCM signals from an SPDIF connection (optical or coax) to go to Zone 2/3, since this is a simple stereo conversion, but I don't know of ANY receivers that will output HDMI audio and/or multich digital audio from SPDIF to other zones. The only ones that do have this to some degree do it like the 4520, with a "party mode" that can broadcast the same audio to other zones. But it's not a fully independent zone solution.

Implementing that would be costly and complex to implement for the manufacturer -- if you think about it, it would require a complete second HDMI decoder and processing solution that could operate separately from the Main Zone HDMI. If you wanted to have Main Zone operating on one HDMI source, and then take a second, separate HDMI source and output it to Zone 2, the receiver would need to independently process that HDMI signal, decode the audio, downmix to stereo, and then send to Zone 2. It's easier for the manufacturers to simply keep Zone 2/3 (since they are basically stereo audio only) as a simple stereo analog circuit. You can almost think of it as a miniature, independent stereo analog receiver built into this big fancy digital Main Zone receiver.

The HDMI matrix output is a relatively new feature, and several newer high end receivers have this. However, again, this is simply a matrix switch; the HDMI signal is independent from the Main Zone but it just passes through. There is no associated processing / amplification to coordinate a powered audio signal with the HDMI feed.

Basically, the 4520 will do what you want IF you:

1) are willing to run analog RCA audio connections in parallel with the digital connections for any source(s) you wish to output to the audio-only zone, and;

2) are able to feed the Zone 4 HDMI matrix output to either an HDMI display or a second cheap HDMI receiver

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post #3450 of 10618 Old 03-13-2013, 04:37 PM
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It really doesn't exist, not within one receiver.

Almost no receivers allow digital audio output to other zones. Some high level Denons in the past allowed 2.0 PCM signals from an SPDIF connection (optical or coax) to go to Zone 2/3, since this is a simple stereo conversion, but I don't know of ANY receivers that will output HDMI audio and/or multich digital audio from SPDIF to other zones. The only ones that do have this to some degree do it like the 4520, with a "party mode" that can broadcast the same audio to other zones. But it's not a fully independent zone solution.

Implementing that would be costly and complex to implement for the manufacturer -- if you think about it, it would require a complete second HDMI decoder and processing solution that could operate separately from the Main Zone HDMI. If you wanted to have Main Zone operating on one HDMI source, and then take a second, separate HDMI source and output it to Zone 2, the receiver would need to independently process that HDMI signal, decode the audio, downmix to stereo, and then send to Zone 2. It's easier for the manufacturers to simply keep Zone 2/3 (since they are basically stereo audio only) as a simple stereo analog circuit. You can almost think of it as a miniature, independent stereo analog receiver built into this big fancy digital Main Zone receiver.

The HDMI matrix output is a relatively new feature, and several newer high end receivers have this. However, again, this is simply a matrix switch; the HDMI signal is independent from the Main Zone but it just passes through. There is no associated processing / amplification to coordinate a powered audio signal with the HDMI feed.

Basically, the 4520 will do what you want IF you:

1) are willing to run analog RCA audio connections in parallel with the digital connections for any source(s) you wish to output to the audio-only zone, and;

2) are able to feed the Zone 4 HDMI matrix output to either an HDMI display or a second cheap HDMI receiver

Got it. So what about this idea? Here is basically the situation. The second video zone would be the bedroom. To keep things minimalistic in the bedroom I would like to have no cablebox, and no blu ray player and be able to play tv, video, music from any source (in this case it would probably be a blu ray player, ipod, and a NAS storage with built in dlna server, and sirius internet radio) in the bedroom. What if I ran hdmi cable over cat6 to the tv in the bedroom from the receiver, and also ran component cables to the tv from the receiver. This way if I was watching regular tv it would play out of the tv speakers, but if i was watching a bluray lets say, the audio would come out of the 2 ceiling speakers, and i would choose a different video input on the tv? That should work, should it not? This would be assuming the blu ray player was connected to the receiver via analog audio along with the original hdmi. Would I notice any difference with the analog audio? In my mind analog is alwasy worse than digital, but something is better than nothing, correct?
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