The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 118 - AVS Forum
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post #3511 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 09:52 AM
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^Ahh-so then I presume theSQ is better with the new marantz, if only due to XT32.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3512 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 10:06 AM
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Actually I have been running the 4810 without Audyssey XT enabled for a long time and I would probably try doing that on the 8801 initially.

I usually listen to music in Pure Direct mode anyway.
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post #3513 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 10:40 AM
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^Woof, I highly recommend your giving XT32 a try if and when you get it included in your next processor. It is wa-ay better than the prior versions as it focuses EQ resources below the Schroeder Freq and does far less "messing" with the upper freq range.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3514 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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OK, 3rd Denon replacement received today. They didn't even wait to receive the 2nd defective unit back before shipping my 3rd 4520 now. Its hooked up and everything is working fine but I just noticed something...

Any 4520 owner using Zone 2 to power 2 remote speakers please try this and report your findings:


  • Play music to your zone 2 speakers either via Pandora or Internet radio, doesn't matter.
  • Now on your main zone turn on another source, say a Blu-ray or cable or satellite.
  • Now pause the video on the main source.
  • Turn the volume up to 80 or 5db on the main zone

Do you hear audio from zone 2 bleeding into your speakers in the main zone? I do!

This is a problem because it means there is no clean isolation between the 2 zones. So if anyone can confirm this to be a problem or not for them I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jerry
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post #3515 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 11:03 AM
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Talked with Mike again today; he said out of the 20 he has sold, 3 have been replaced. Does 15% failure rate from that batch seem abnormal?
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post #3516 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

OK, 3rd Denon replacement received today. They didn't even wait to receive the 2nd defective unit back before shipping my 3rd 4520 now. Its hooked up and everything is working fine but I just noticed something...

Any 4520 owner using Zone 2 to power 2 remote speakers please try this and report your findings:


  • Play music to your zone 2 speakers either via Pandora or Internet radio, doesn't matter.
  • Now on your main zone turn on another source, say a Blu-ray or cable or satellite.
  • Now pause the video on the main source.
  • Turn the volume up to 80 or 5db on the main zone

Do you hear audio from zone 2 bleeding into your speakers in the main zone? I do!

This is a problem because it means there is no clean isolation between the 2 zones. So if anyone can confirm this to be a problem or not for them I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry,
Have they all been refurbished? I believe you mentioned your initial purchase was a B-Stock. However, I did not know after that many issue whether or not they went ahead and replaced it. Regardless of A-Stock or B-Stock I hope this one is flawless for you.
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post #3517 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Other people have reported "analogue bleed" from Zone 2 (not just with the 4520). It's usually very low level and inaudible in most circumstances. My suspicion is it's because of how tightly crap is packed into the box, there is some "bleed" from a lack of isolation. So you're not crazy.

I'm not sure if it's ALWAYS there and most people never notice it because it's usually at such a low level, or if it's genuinely a flaw that only crops up with certain units. Hopefully some others can test it out.

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post #3518 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Talked with Mike again today; he said out of the 20 he has sold, 3 have been replaced. Does 15% failure rate from that batch seem abnormal?
I have no real comparison data but that is astonishingly bad to me, given that they double box for shipping, are reputable and are selling authorized A stock.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3519 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Talked with Mike again today; he said out of the 20 he has sold, 3 have been replaced. Does 15% failure rate from that batch seem abnormal?

Although I think a 15% failure rate is quite high I don't think a sample of 20 units can give you a statistically significant sample from which to draw conclusions. Granted I don't know how many 4520's Denon has sold but in any case I would say it's pretty safe to assume that a sample of 20 units is not large enough to draw any real conclusions.
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post #3520 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:15 PM
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I was looking at the Denon site and I didn't see Bluetooth mentioned. Does the 4520 do Bluetooth?

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post #3521 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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15% is high

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post #3522 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Other people have reported "analogue bleed" from Zone 2 (not just with the 4520). It's usually very low level and inaudible in most circumstances. My suspicion is it's because of how tightly crap is packed into the box, there is some "bleed" from a lack of isolation. So you're not crazy.

I'm not sure if it's ALWAYS there and most people never notice it because it's usually at such a low level, or if it's genuinely a flaw that only crops up with certain units. Hopefully some others can test it out.

You are right that most people won't notice it. I was watching a movie at a very high volume when the phone rang and I paused the movie. My wife was listening to music in the kitchen on zone 2 and I noticed when I paused the movie the faint sound of the music coming from my speakers in the theater room. Now if I lowered the volume it wasn't noticeable. As long as other people can confirm that this condition exists then I know my unit is not isolated and I don't need to get a forth :-) And yes, these are all B stock units.

Jerry
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post #3523 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

I was looking at the Denon site and I didn't see Bluetooth mentioned. Does the 4520 do Bluetooth?

No. I don't know of any receivers that do Bluetooth streaming without some external adapter.

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post #3524 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigstew View Post

I am one of the happy campers with nothing negative to say.

I've paired the Denon DBT-3313UDCI with the 4520 and could not be any happier with no issues at all. Just got the new Rush 2112 remaster for Blu-ray and was in total bliss! If you are a Rush fan, the animations that tell the story along with the music are pretty cool.

The latest FW updates took much longer than stated for me also on both units. I try not to get too anxious and just relax and let it do its thing.


Did you notice the DBT-3313UDCI is a bit slow

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post #3525 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Talked with Mike again today; he said out of the 20 he has sold, 3 have been replaced. Does 15% failure rate from that batch seem abnormal?

I work for auto OE and this is huge, 15% of a small sample is definitely inductive of a trend and Denon should have their reliability and warranty engineers doing actual customer scramble to ID what is happening in the field that their R&D DFEMA, DVP&R, process FMEA, and final launch quality check missed.
Quick, swift action is req'd.


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post #3526 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I work for auto OE and this is huge, 15% of a small sample is definitely inductive of a trend and Denon should have their reliability and warranty engineers doing actual customer scramble to ID what is happening in the field that their R&D DFEMA, DVP&R, process FMEA, and final launch quality check missed.
Quick, swift action is req'd.

I forgot to add that the failure reasons were all the same, there was some capacitor failure that was causing an audible humming noise from the amp section.
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post #3527 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No. I don't know of any receivers that do Bluetooth streaming without some external adapter.

If I'm not mistaken I think some Sony AVRs have this capability but as I did not consider purchasing one I never looked into it in any depth.
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post #3528 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 03:03 PM
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My 4520 would be here on Tue. What are the tests that I need to do to make sure that my unit does not have any issues? Thanks in advance for the help/suggestions.
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post #3529 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 03:09 PM
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My 4520 would be here on Tue. What are the tests that I need to do to make sure that my unit does not have any issues? Thanks in advance for the help/suggestions

Mine is supposed to be here Tuesday as well, so +1 for audio1246's question.

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post #3530 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I work for auto OE and this is huge, 15% of a small sample is definitely inductive of a trend and Denon should have their reliability and warranty engineers doing actual customer scramble to ID what is happening in the field that their R&D DFEMA, DVP&R, process FMEA, and final launch quality check missed.
Quick, swift action is req'd.

I forgot to add that the failure reasons were all the same, there was some capacitor failure that was causing an audible humming noise from the amp section.

OK - so with that Denon should go thru the R&D development and validation chain, and their production quality engineering and see:

-was the design robust on both ends of tolerance
-were the capacitor specs clearly to the supplier on their approved drawings/spec sheet
-were the supplier process checks in place
-what was the pre-production run result
-did the tier 1 supplier substitute lower quality part w/o approval?
-did the tier 1 supplier, their supply chain substitute lower quality part w/o approval?
(yes, this happens more than is know, due to constraint issues/etc)
etc

Also - that AVS batch were those sequential so same basic run from Denon> supplier, etc.......

Was the field failure systematic of some thing those 3 customers did same that the others did not?
(Denon ask via phone calls/etc)

Quick, swift, proactive action ......
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post #3531 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 05:13 PM
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I bought mine off of Mike and it went back,and was replaced for no power on the 2nd or 3rd Zones. I did not have any humming issues.
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post #3532 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 05:30 PM
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Well I think I'm going to hold off for now. I'm actually hoping that the Audyssey XT32 and SubEQ features from the 4520 make it to the 3xxx series. Seems as though they came out last summer so perhaps there will be an announcement in the next few months. I don't need any multizone capabilities so some of the 4520 features are not relevant to me. Besides, prices only go down for this type of stuff...
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post #3533 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 05:37 PM
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Could anyone tell me how to play a 5.1 disc in 5.1 the receiver is putting it in 7.1 for me. It on dts hd master direct and still does it.
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post #3534 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Woof, I highly recommend your giving XT32 a try if and when you get it included in your next processor. It is wa-ay better than the prior versions as it focuses EQ resources below the Schroeder Freq and does far less "messing" with the upper freq range.

I'm planning to. But will try it in Pure Direct mode for a while so there's a basis of comparison.

I do engage AutoEQ for movies usually. Might try that for music as well even tho I preferred it off for music.
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post #3535 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 07:28 PM
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I have the same problem it defaults to 7.1 in dts mode
You can not go and set it to 5.1
More removing of options is not good on a $2500 amp frown.gif
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post #3536 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by United2013 View Post

Could anyone tell me how to play a 5.1 disc in 5.1 the receiver is putting it in 7.1 for me. It on dts hd master direct and still does it.

 

Please clarify, are you talking about a music disk or a movie disk?

 

For either a 5.1 or a 7.1 Dolby HD MSTR or DTS HD MSTR movie disk, simply pressing and holding the Movie button on the remote allows you to chose an audio mode that turns off the rear surround speakers.

 

if you are talking about a music disk that is playing in PLIIz mode, you are correct, there is no simple way to turn off the matrixed rear surrounds.  If you insist on turning them off, you can access the Speakers menu and de-select the rear surrounds.  This is not optimal, but evidently Denon engineers have decided that if you have rear surrounds, you must want them playing all the time for the music modes.  This "feature" has been discussed a number of times.

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post #3537 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

I have the same problem it defaults to 7.1 in dts mode
You can not go and set it to 5.1
More removing of options is not good on a $2500 amp frown.gif

Isn't there a standard button for film and a stereo/direct button for music like on the 33xx series?

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post #3538 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 08:37 PM
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have a standard button on my 3311, but my 3312 (no standard button) defaults to 7 speakers for dts HD MA 5.1 or 6.1, also for Dolby TrueHD 6.1, which I LIKE biggrin.gif

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post #3539 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 08:52 PM
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Thanks. I only use it for Blu-ray Only and every time i put in a 5.1 disc it come up as 7.1. I have hold the button down and selected DTS HD master and still come out as 7.1.
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post #3540 of 8890 Old 03-15-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by United2013 View Post

Could anyone tell me how to play a 5.1 disc in 5.1 the receiver is putting it in 7.1 for me. It on dts hd master direct and still does it.

It must be in matrix mode or the rears are turned on.

In search of video bliss...
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