The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 06:28 AM
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My impression has been that "attack" corresponds to having the leading edge of an audio impulse arrive simultaneously from all appropriate speakers, with no blurring due to delayed reflections in the room. In other words, turnne1 needs to consider installing some room treatments; in particular absorbers at initial reflection points.

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post #3602 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Really, you are complaining that the tone controls don't work on the surround channels and you haven't even run Audyssey yet?  confused.gif

LOL, yes I know.
It was just that the 5308ci had the ability to control the tone of all the speakers at the same time (equalizer excluded)and the 4520 did not have this feature.
So I thought there was something wrong.
Having said that, the 4520 is a great receiver!!!

And I will be running the Audyssey when I get a free weekend. smile.gif
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post #3603 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:06 AM
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^IME "attack" is usually used in reference to the the attack transients-a part of the overall dynamics and basically the initial upward slope of SPL. Other comon descriptors for this are be "punchy" or "fast". I myself have never experienced a sound system that was "too aggressive" in this quality. Quite the opposite- it is rare to hear a system capable of approaching the actual dynamics of live music.

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post #3604 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

The 7.1 dts thing needs to be fixed !
You can turn on dolby or dolby ex in settings
With the sound toggle button
Why not with Dts to Dts es ,
Choose 5.1 or 7.1
Not default to Dts 7.1

I don't get why you consider this an issue. If you have a 7.1 setup I assume you want to utilize your 7.1 setup correct? When you go to a movie theater and they playback a native 5.1 track they still utilize the back surround speakers. Personally, I apply PLIIx to DTS-MA sources and I've only had to apply this the very first time I played back a DTS-MA 5.1 track - since then it defaults to PLIIx.
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post #3605 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 09:00 AM
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(as pointed out by batpig) from page 99 of the AVR-3312CI owner's manual BOLD MINE :



Setting items Setting details
Surround Back
Sets the method of
generating of the surround
back channel.
nn For 2-channel sources
ON : The surround back channel is used.
OFF : No signal is played from the surround back channels.
nn For multi-channel sources
Set the decoding method for the surround back channel.
ONz1 : Convert the 5.1-channel source of the DTS/DTS-HD input
signals to the 7.1-channel output recommended by DTS and then play.
MTRX ON : Generate and play the surround back channel signals from
the surround channel signals by means of the Dolby Digital EX decoder.
ES MTRXz2 : Generate and play the surround back channel signals
from the surround channel signals of the DTS source by means of the
DTS-ES decoder.
PLgx CINEMAz3 : Generate and play the surround back signals by
decoding the signals in the Dolby Pro Logic gx Cinema mode.
PLgx MUSIC : Generate and play the surround back signals by
decoding the signals in the Dolby Pro Logic gx Music mode.
OFF : Do not play the surround back channel.
z1 This can be selected when playing the 5.1-channel source of DTS/
DTS-HD.
z2 This can be selected when playing DTS sources.
z3 This can be selected when “Speaker Config.” – “Surr.Back”
(vpage 106) is set to “2spkrs”.
If the source being played contains a surround back signal, the decoder
type is automatically selected by the AFDM function. Set “AFDM” to
“OFF” to switch to your preferred decoder.
NOTE
If the setting in “Speaker Config.” – “Surr.Back” (vpage 106) is
“None”, “Surround Back” is not displayed.

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post #3606 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
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When would the price drop for this? A year? smile.gif
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post #3607 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post

When would the price drop for this? A year? smile.gif
I think normally the prices drop when the replacement model is released. Call a Authorized seller from the forums and ask for their best deal... You might be surprised by their price.

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post #3608 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 10:32 AM
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I'm having a very strange issue that I'm hoping you guys can help me with.

I have a digital source that I want to play in Zone 2. I was able to do this for a while, but then it stopped working. The installer who sold me the unit is telling me that Zone 2 can only play analog sources, and that I need an external D/A converter if I want this source to play in Zone 2. I am absolutely sure I had this working at one point, but he says that it never could have worked. There is a section in the user's manual that says that Zone 2 can only play analog sources, which he's referring to, but it appears to me that that is talking about routing digital sources out through the analog pre-out outputs to a seperate Zone 2 amplifier.

In any case, isn't there also a way to tell Zone 2 to play "whatever is playing in Zone 1", thus using the Zone 1 D/A converter? Perhaps this is how I had it working before... All I know is that I had my digital source playing in Zone 2, and I was also able to independently control the volume in Zone 2.

- Dave
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post #3609 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The only way to play a digital source to Zone2 is using the "All Zone Stereo" function, which syncs all zones to the source audio source.

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post #3610 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 11:18 AM
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That was it, thanks!

Actually, though - according to Denon, you should be able to get 2 zone PCM digital audio to play independently in Zone 2. And that is what the source is that I'm trying to get to play. It was working at one point and now is not. I can live with the "all zone stereo" mode anyway, because my Zone 2 speakers are on the other side of the same room as zone 1 (so I don't need zone 2 to play a seperate source). But I should be able to play a seperate PCM source in Zone 2 from whatever is playing in Zone 1, and that isn't working.
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post #3611 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure who "according to Denon" is (e.g. a customer service rep on the phone support?) but it's not true. That feature (2.0 PCM from optical or coax) existed on the previous 4311 model but was removed with the 4520.

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post #3612 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 11:48 AM
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It was a guy that my installer got on the phone when he was here. I assume it was a customer service rep, as you say.

I guess that I'll live with using "all zone stereo". I'm as sure as I can be that at one point I had PCM playing in Zone 2 by selecting the PCM input as my source in Zone 2, but maybe I'm crazy.

Thanks for your help!

- Dave
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post #3613 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 05:36 PM
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Does anyone know what to do to get my phone to control the AVR. I downloaded the App just need some help setting it up.
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post #3614 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 05:42 PM
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what kind of phone? I can help with iPhone

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post #3615 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

The 7.1 dts thing needs to be fixed !
You can turn on dolby or dolby ex in settings
With the sound toggle button
Why not with Dts to Dts es ,
Choose 5.1 or 7.1
Not default to Dts 7.1

This change was more than likely the result of the fact that in years past, many owners were confused about how to simulate 7.1 from DTS 5.1 audio due to the special surround parameter settings and therefore Denon has apparently just made it the permanent default (ie. nothing to be fixed).

As already asked of you, perhaps you can share why you prefer 5.1 with a 7.1 setup?

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post #3616 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by United2013 View Post

Does anyone know what to do to get my phone to control the AVR. I downloaded the App just need some help setting it up.

4520 has to be hooked up to your home network, iPhone needs to be on your same network wirelessly. Run the App and it should automatically find the 4520, that simple. You should be using the official free Denon app in the Apple store,

Jerry
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post #3617 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:17 PM
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Thank you. my modem is not wireless so does that mean i can not do it?
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post #3618 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:18 PM
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Yes a iPhone 4
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post #3619 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:20 PM
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you'll have to connect your AVR with wired connection, mine is wired...but, your phone will need to connect wirelessly...

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #3620 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:34 PM
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The dts 7.1 thing
You can set dolby digital to 5.1 or ex or pl2 cinema back

Why not the same in DTS !
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post #3621 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:35 PM
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cheers. So does the denon connect to my phone wireless or does my phone need to connect to my modem?
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post #3622 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:40 PM
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the Denon when wired to your network, can connect to your iPhone 4 wirelessly, but, I think you'll have to have some type wireless modem for the iPhone 4 to connect to...

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #3623 of 8899 Old 03-18-2013, 07:47 PM
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That what i was thinking. I might buy wireless modem soon then i can do it. Thanks for your help
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post #3624 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

The dts 7.1 thing
You can set dolby digital to 5.1 or ex or pl2 cinema back

Why not the same in DTS !

 

Your insistence would be more credible if you would explain why being able to turn off the rear surrounds is so important to you.  Otherwise, it just sounds like nitpicking.

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post #3625 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

The dts 7.1 thing
You can set dolby digital to 5.1 or ex or pl2 cinema back

Why not the same in DTS !

again, as RECOMMENDED by dts...let's see, my choice, or recommended by dts?

also, Dolby Digital Plus 6.1 AND TrueHD 6.1 automatically adds the 7th channel...

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #3626 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 08:00 AM
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You miss the point why not
You can do it in dolby
I just miss the option
You can choose 5.1 in dolby or 7.1
This amp sounds very good
I am very sad that denon have taken away so many options that was in other units
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post #3627 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 AM
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you can select surround back off and toggle it to every choice with the MOVIE button...

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #3628 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quick question, is the included power cord the standard 6 feet in length?
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post #3629 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 08:46 AM
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When I am in a dts film sound track
I can not turn the back off to play it back in 5.1
It defaults to 7.1 and you have to change speaker settings

If I have a dolby sound I can change things
With the movie button
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post #3630 of 8899 Old 03-19-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

also, Dolby Digital Plus 6.1 AND TrueHD 6.1 automatically adds the 7th channel...

That's the only way you would want it to be, and it's the way ANY 7ch receiver will work.

Think about it -- if you have TWO back surrounds, why would you only want ONE of them making noise? Which would it be, the left one or the right one? Either one would be "wrong" because the (theoretically) central back surround signal would be off to the left or right.

What happens with a 6.1 track is that the mono back surround channel is played in dual-mono by the two back surrounds. This is how many 6.1 systems were intended to be used way back in the day, because of a localization artifact where a speaker directly behind your head can trick your ears/brain into thinking a sound directly behind you is actually in front of you.

Even before full 7.1 with stereo back surrounds was an option, many experts recommended using TWO back surrounds for 6.1 systems specifically to avoid this artifact.

Many modern receivers will allow you to override the 6.1 signal and use something like PLIIx to instead extract stereo back surrounds rather than the mono back surround. But either way you WANT it playing from both speakers.

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