The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum
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post #3871 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 05:56 PM
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I just purchased a refurbished 4520 directly from Denon-USA. I got it hooked up Friday night, and have been using it all weekend...So far no issues.

I do have a question, I have it setup as 5.1 + zones 2 & 3. I have been watching TV (DIRECTV) and movies (OPPO-103) in the main zone and have Pandora playing in zone 2 and this works as it should.
I am, however, unable to get the sound from what's playing in the main zone to play thru zone 2. From what I have read this should be possible, but how?
I must be missing something...

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post #3872 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^The good news is that the unit probably protected itself. The bad news is that obviously there's a problem- and it could be elsewhere in your system-which may be why it happened with the Onk too.

I don't have your OM, but from 4311 OM p 135:
0.5sec flashes indicates the AVR is seeing extremely low impedence. If your speakers are not below 4 ohm then look for a short circuit such as stray strands of speaker wire touching at the posts on the back of the AVR or the speaker. Sometimes a nail or screw has penetrated the speaker wire, especially common with in-wall installations.

Flashes every 2 sec indicates overheating.

it was flashing pretty quick, but I went over all the wires and saw nothing or felt nothing out of the ordinary. my speakers arent below 4 ohm. Also I have the Denon running in preamp mode so no speakers hooked up to it. The XPA 5 didnt go into protection mode which it is good at, so stray wire or short is unlikely.

The problem with the onkyo 5508 was a ongoing problem by turning themselves on and off etc.. Had it fixed.

No overheating because it was only turned on for 5 minutes or less.



Whats weird is that the unit has been working fine. I literally turned the unit on for the first time tonight, turned the bluray player one, hooked my usb drive to the bluray, turned my xpa 5 on, subs etc..

started the movie and it played for roughly 5 or so minutes. I turned the volume up and all of a sudden I hear this weird feedback type noise, like static or hum. I turned the volume down and back up and nothing happened, same noise. the movie kept playing and the xpa5 didnt go into protection mode which it will do with a speaker or interconnect issue. I hit pause on the remote of the bluray player and BAM, a loud pop and sudden shutdown of JUST the DENON. it started blinking fast red light. I turned the unit off, then back and and watched the whole movie which was very long, and no problems. very weird.
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post #3873 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 06:43 PM
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Im also wondering if this issue might have something to do with the Audyssey error I was getting? I was getting the polarity issue on my center speaker. Guys here explained this was common. My speakers are wired up on the xover different. When I checked continuity on the plus and minus on the rear of the speakers, I was getting a beep. Im assuming many speaker manf. wire them up this way.
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post #3874 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

it was flashing pretty quick, but I went over all the wires and saw nothing or felt nothing out of the ordinary. my speakers arent below 4 ohm. Also I have the Denon running in preamp mode so no speakers hooked up to it. The XPA 5 didnt go into protection mode which it is good at, so stray wire or short is unlikely.

The problem with the onkyo 5508 was a ongoing problem by turning themselves on and off etc.. Had it fixed.

No overheating because it was only turned on for 5 minutes or less.



Whats weird is that the unit has been working fine. I literally turned the unit on for the first time tonight, turned the bluray player one, hooked my usb drive to the bluray, turned my xpa 5 on, subs etc..

started the movie and it played for roughly 5 or so minutes. I turned the volume up and all of a sudden I hear this weird feedback type noise, like static or hum. I turned the volume down and back up and nothing happened, same noise. the movie kept playing and the xpa5 didnt go into protection mode which it will do with a speaker or interconnect issue. I hit pause on the remote of the bluray player and BAM, a loud pop and sudden shutdown of JUST the DENON. it started blinking fast red light. I turned the unit off, then back and and watched the whole movie which was very long, and no problems. very weird.

Have you checked the wires between the Denon and the XPA 5? If one of them is loose or broken, it might have a short that is detected by the Denon which could trigger the protection mode also at higher volumes. That would explain why you were getting this also with the Onkyo and why only the Denon is going in protection mode.
The preamp out circuits probably have a protection as well as the amplifier circuits.
My subwoofer cable had this problem once and the sub would stop playing for a while. At first I thought it was the Sub's amp but turned out my Sub's RCA cable had a problem and was shorting sometimes. Cable replaced, problem gone!

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post #3875 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 07:14 PM
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The reason tge onkyo was doing was a issue with them turning on by the self. Not off.

I might try changing interconnects out. Blue jeans interconnects so I'm not sure how they could be bad all if a sudden.

Plus the xpa5 didn't shut off which it always does if it detects a problem
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post #3876 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I just purchased a refurbished 4520 directly from Denon-USA. I got it hooked up Friday night, and have been using it all weekend...So far no issues.

I do have a question, I have it setup as 5.1 + zones 2 & 3. I have been watching TV (DIRECTV) and movies (OPPO-103) in the main zone and have Pandora playing in zone 2 and this works as it should.
I am, however, unable to get the sound from what's playing in the main zone to play thru zone 2. From what I have read this should be possible, but how?
I must be missing something...
The 4520 cannot down convert digital audio to analog which is what the Zone 2 needs to play.
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post #3877 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

The 4520 cannot down convert digital audio to analog which is what the Zone 2 needs to play.

Then I guess I could use the analog out on the DTV box to a different input on the 4520 and use that?

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post #3878 of 10586 Old 03-31-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

The reason tge onkyo was doing was a issue with them turning on by the self. Not off.

I might try changing interconnects out. Blue jeans interconnects so I'm not sure how they could be bad all if a sudden.

Plus the xpa5 didn't shut off which it always does if it detects a problem
Ahh, OK, so the problems were different with the Onkyo and you have the AVR in preamp mode. Whatever is going on downstream of the XPA5 should not throw the AVR into Protection Mode-so this issue should not be the result of a speaker or speaker wire issue, or phase for that matter.

Speaker out of phase is not uncommonly reported due to errant sound wave reflections, especially on CC. Very very rarely is a speaker actually wired wrong internally so usually just checking that the speaker wire is correct at the posts of the amp and speaker is all you need do.

Regardless of whether the phase warning is indicative of a miswired speaker or not, it's not correlated with any aberrant AVR behavior AFAIK.

These are very bizarre symptoms I've never heard about before. I'd do a reset the microprocessor. (Network Save first, if you haven't already)

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post #3879 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I just purchased a refurbished 4520 directly from Denon-USA. I got it hooked up Friday night, and have been using it all weekend...So far no issues.

I do have a question, I have it setup as 5.1 + zones 2 & 3. I have been watching TV (DIRECTV) and movies (OPPO-103) in the main zone and have Pandora playing in zone 2 and this works as it should.
I am, however, unable to get the sound from what's playing in the main zone to play thru zone 2. From what I have read this should be possible, but how?
I must be missing something...

It is possible if you use the "All Zone Stereo" feature which will pass any audio (HDMI or otherwise) that is playing in the main zone to Zones 2/3, although will also downmix the main zone audio to Multi CH Stereo as well. Another option if you want to maintain the 5.1 surround mode in the main zone is to connect an analog cable from the source to the AVR and assign it to the same source name as is used for the HDMI connection to make it easier to play the same source in all zones.

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post #3880 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Another option if you want to maintain the 5.1 surround mode in the main zone is to connect an analog cable from the source to the AVR and assign it to the same source name as is used for the HDMI connection to make it easier to play the same source in all zones.

Is it necessary to assign it to the same source name? Or could I just use a different input all together?

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post #3881 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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You could use a different input but what's the point of using up a different name?

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post #3882 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You could use a different input but what's the point of using up a different name?

No point in it I guess, just wondering which way is best/proper.

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post #3883 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Ahh, OK, so the problems were different with the Onkyo and you have the AVR in preamp mode. Whatever is going on downstream of the XPA5 should not throw the AVR into Protection Mode-so this issue should not be the result of a speaker or speaker wire issue, or phase for that matter.

Speaker out of phase is not uncommonly reported due to errant sound wave reflections, especially on CC. Very very rarely is a speaker actually wired wrong internally so usually just checking that the speaker wire is correct at the posts of the amp and speaker is all you need do.

Regardless of whether the phase warning is indicative of a miswired speaker or not, it's not correlated with any aberrant AVR behavior AFAIK.

These are very bizarre symptoms I've never heard about before. I'd do a reset the microprocessor. (Network Save first, if you haven't already)

Right. My speakers are wired weird on the xover. The positive and negatives are touching but this is on all speakers. But if this was a issue, then I figured tge unit would have showed this earlier.

I called denon and they were stumped. I explained that the unit was in preamp mode so no speaker wires touching. He said if it was his that he would get it replaced. Vanns has a brand new one on its way.
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post #3884 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 12:42 PM
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Has it worked only directly from the source devices or when connected to another AVR? Is the PJ 720p or 1080p? If 1080p, change the AVR output to 720p or test connecting the AVR to the PJ using a shorter cable. More than likely the Redmere cable will still need an HDMI signal booster/extender.

So I figured everything out, it turned out all to be handshake issues (what a coincidence...). I know my Redmere cables have the equalizer booster chips built in, so I didn't think it was the cable at all especially since I have been using the same ones for my PJ and other devices. My first and most important issue was not getting any video with my PJ. My TV never had any issues at all. After switching the cable ports on the Denon for monitor 1 (PJ) to monitor 2 (TV), then swapping the cable ports again, with a combination of forcing the Denon to output to monitor 1 back to Auto, that seemingly fixed the issue. I believe unplugging the HDMI cable from the Denon, and toggling the HDMI output settings on the Denon was what cured this. Hopefully this is a one-time setup only procedure.

The second issue was with my Xbox not getting any signal at all. After much tweaking, I wound up deactivating the "Display Discovery" option on the Xbox. Once I did that, video appeared, but no audio. Further, I then deactivated "EDID" option from the Xbox menu to get audio to play on the Denon. This has always worked for both my display and PJ in the past. Apparently the Denon doesn't handle these settings so well.
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post #3885 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 01:01 PM
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My quick review thus far...I still love the look of the unit. There are no buttons (other than power) on the 4520, and I just think that gives it a great and classy look. Coming from MCACC, I am new to Audyssey and am still playing around with adjustments. The GUI is excellent, I hardly miss my old Pioneer "mainframe" style menu.

Heat feels super warm even with preouts used on all 9 channels, though this was before finding the preamp section. Less than 5 minutes after discovering the amp assignment menu and switching the power to external, the 4520 was almost cool to the touch. With that said, I can definitely see why so much ventilation is needed when not using external amplification.

I wound up turning off the scaler for my oppo to just pass he signal. Does anyone like what the scaler can do? I left it on for my Wii input and will test if anything is added to the Oppo quality. When activated, I'm not sure if I like what the Denon does with the Oppo signal.

Audio to me is superior than the Oppo 95 multichannel analog. Granted I am a purely a movie person and do very little music playback. Bass management with Audyssey blows away what the Oppo can do with basic trim and crossover settings. I haven't tried Audyssey with LPF yet, and probably won't since I don't have any neighbors to disturb. I still have a lot of learning to do, I will eventually setup my oppo 103 for multichannel music to demo. But I can see why 95/105 owners consistently use hdmi for movies and analog for music. The only music I played on here was on the HD radio and streaming. The separation these burr brown DACs provide on the denon is definitely superior to what my old pioneer had (pioneer typically uses Wolfson). Everything so far has sounded smooth, extremely smooth. The 4520 is no slouch at all.

If I were to complain about anything, it would be the remote. It just feels cheap and looks cheaper than my budget LED TV remote. The 4311 came with 2 nice remotes and the 5803 had a super cool touch screen remote. Luckily I have a Harmony for control, but it would still be nice to see something a tad better. I also posted a pic of the remote that I received, it appears to be damaged (see the LCD screen leak).

Everything else seems to work great. Keeping my fingers crossed all goes well. I am one happy owner for sure.


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post #3886 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 04:20 PM
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I bought a new unit 3 weeks ago. Works flawlessly. Am very pleased with it. Bought it from AVS forum, Mike Garrett
Same here! Fast shipping as well. Ordered Sunday, had it Wednesday.
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post #3887 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

...
I called denon and they were stumped. I explained that the unit was in preamp mode so no speaker wires touching. He said if it was his that he would get it replaced. Vanns has a brand new one on its way.
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post #3888 of 10586 Old 04-01-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

No point in it I guess, just wondering which way is best/proper.

Either way works .. it's your setup so use the configuration that works best for you. smile.gif

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post #3889 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 07:01 AM
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I'm a new member. My Marantz AV7005 took damage from a lightning strike and I'm replacing it with the Denon. Although I used the balanced outputs on the 7005, I didn't really need them as my power amp would take either type of input. I liked the ease of using the balanced connectors, but not enough for me to be able to justify the flagship Marantz' price. I plan on running the 4520 in preamp mode and using some of the amps in the unit for zones 2 and 3. I ordered it though our friend Mike Garrett at AVS and it should arrive tomorrow.
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post #3890 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 08:21 AM
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Sorry to here about the AV7005, maybe its time to invest in a surge protecter.
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post #3891 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 08:29 AM
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Sorry to here about the AV7005, maybe its time to invest in a surge protecter.

I had a pretty good surge protector in my rack, but it didn't protect the cable. I think the surge came in though the cable as my cable box and prepro were the only things killed. Well, also my phone line and security system but they weren't on the protector.
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post #3892 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 09:52 AM
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Is it normal for the AVR to make a faint buzzing noise when on? Mine does.
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post #3893 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 10:53 AM
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^ Mine was silent before, but I am using external amps. I will check again tonight.
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post #3894 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 10:55 AM
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^ Mine was silent before, but I am using external amps. I will check again tonight.

Cool. Thanks
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post #3895 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 10:58 AM
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Now that this unit has been out for a while and the user base has increased, I am curious as to the perception of the audio quality of the internal amplifiers from those who now OWN the DENON AVR-4520CI?

I will need to design a new condo system soon and am undecided between internal vs external amplifiers. There is a need to keep this whole system in the least amount of boxes as possible but also for it to be very high in audio quality though at a relatively low volume level. It will be used equally for Music, Movies and TV (never reference level) and it will be laid out as a 7.0 system with wide front speakers.

For those who are using only the INTERNAL AMPLIFIERS, I am also curious as to what you are using for speakers and are you happy with the results? Do you feel a need (desire) to add external amps or are you satisfied with the internal amplification?

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post #3896 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The words "condo" and "relatively low volume level" and "never reference level" mean that external amps are totally unnecessary. Especially combined with the phrase "least amount of boxes as possible".

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post #3897 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 11:12 AM
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I would say that given the weight of this unit, and seeing the heatsinks, this appears to be capable of running demanding speakers at moderately listening levels.
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post #3898 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 11:25 AM
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By the way, I was originally jealous of the "Eco" mode that Onkyo units have been putting in their units since last year, and now Pioneer started doing it this year. When I noticed the red light doesn't appear in standby mode on my 4520, I thought there was something wrong. I was just on Denon's product site and came across this statement on the specs page: "Very low power consumption in standby mode: 0.1 W "

I somehow missed that statement in my initial research. The 0.1 W standby power rating is the same as Onkyo and Pioneer's Eco mode. I am extremely happy to see Denon did this too, as I figured they would include that in their receiver line eventually. Since "green" receivers seem to be the trend, I believe they need to market this feature more than what they are currently doing. This is definitely one feature I was looking to have.
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post #3899 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 11:41 AM
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I was running Polk LSi15's, which are rated at 4ohm(nominal) at 88db sensitivity and had NO issues running them at "spirited" levels for any period of time.

I also had a Denon 3312 before, which strained very bad with the same setup. My 4520 barely gets warm, while the 3312 would get cooking hot and go into thermal protection and shut down.
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post #3900 of 10586 Old 04-02-2013, 12:11 PM
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Chucka,
Unless you are going to run more than 7 speakers I think you'd be fine with the 33XX series. I wanted 9 or 11 speakers so I didn't have much choice. The 4520 has a nice feature set and gives you the option to use 9 or 11 channels but as far as superior sound quality, I don't hear it. I know they claim various sonic improvements and they're probably in the box but my ears can't hear them. I like Neo:X a lot and I'm sure the upgraded Audyssey helps (especially with dual subs) but if I didn't run 9 speakers I would have been plenty happy with my 3311. That being said, I've had no issues and I do like this AVR, I just don't think it's worth the money unless you are going to use more than 7 speakers.
BTW, my speakers are Paradigm which are very efficient and sound fine with this and the 3311. I doubt that power would be an issue unless you're using the most inefficient speakers out there.

Also, and I've said this before, but what is it with the Denon manuals? I'm not the smartest guy around but I don't really consider myself stupid............that is until I try to figure something out in the Denon manual. I can read 5 pages of stuff about any given subject in that damn book and know very little more than I did before I read those 5 pages. It's like they give you a ton of info but without really explaining anything. I still rely on Batpig's Denon for Dummies.
I don't see how anybody (unless you get a bad unit) could dislike this receiver, but IMO it's not worth the additional cost unless you're doing 9 or more speakers.
Also, my experience is the exact opposite of Cvetan1"s regarding heat. At least in my environment, the 4520 is considerably hotter than the 3311 was.

Doug

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