The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 131 - AVS Forum
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post #3901 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 11:11 AM
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Chucka,
Unless you are going to run more than 7 speakers I think you'd be fine with the 33XX series. I wanted 9 or 11 speakers so I didn't have much choice. The 4520 has a nice feature set and gives you the option to use 9 or 11 channels but as far as superior sound quality, I don't hear it. I know they claim various sonic improvements and they're probably in the box but my ears can't hear them. I like Neo:X a lot and I'm sure the upgraded Audyssey helps (especially with dual subs) but if I didn't run 9 speakers I would have been plenty happy with my 3311. That being said, I've had no issues and I do like this AVR, I just don't think it's worth the money unless you are going to use more than 7 speakers.
BTW, my speakers are Paradigm which are very efficient and sound fine with this and the 3311. I doubt that power would be an issue unless you're using the most inefficient speakers out there.

Also, and I've said this before, but what is it with the Denon manuals? I'm not the smartest guy around but I don't really consider myself stupid............that is until I try to figure something out in the Denon manual. I can read 5 pages of stuff about any given subject in that damn book and know very little more than I did before I read those 5 pages. It's like they give you a ton of info but without really explaining anything. I still rely on Batpig's Denon for Dummies.
I don't see how anybody (unless you get a bad unit) could dislike this receiver, but IMO it's not worth the additional cost unless you're doing 9 or more speakers.
Also, my experience is the exact opposite of Cvetan1"s regarding heat. At least in my environment, the 4520 is considerably hotter than the 3311 was.

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post #3902 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucka View Post

Now that this unit has been out for a while and the user base has increased, I am curious as to the perception of the audio quality of the internal amplifiers from those who now OWN the DENON AVR-4520CI?

I will need to design a new condo system soon and am undecided between internal vs external amplifiers. There is a need to keep this whole system in the least amount of boxes as possible but also for it to be very high in audio quality though at a relatively low volume level. It will be used equally for Music, Movies and TV (never reference level) and it will be laid out as a 7.0 system with wide front speakers.

For those who are using only the INTERNAL AMPLIFIERS, I am also curious as to what you are using for speakers and are you happy with the results? Do you feel a need (desire) to add external amps or are you satisfied with the internal amplification?

Chucka

I did a small test with the 4520 and KEF Q300s with and without an amp (Parasound 5250 v2), and to me the AVR did an outstanding job. Moreover, the Parasound (IMHO) sounded very laid back on high frequencies. The speakers did not feel airy when connected to the amp. Not sure if anyone else noticed the same behavior. Shouldn't amps sound neutral?

So, yes, using the Denon's internal amps should be good enough for normal listening levels.
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post #3903 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

I'm sure the upgraded Audyssey helps (especially with dual subs) but if I didn't run 9 speakers I would have been plenty happy with my 3311.

XT32 and the ability to add MultiEQ Pro are great even if you have one sub. If budget is the main concern, trying to find a 4311 is also a good option.
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post #3904 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Chucka,
Unless you are going to run more than 7 speakers I think you'd be fine with the 33XX series. I wanted 9 or 11 speakers so I didn't have much choice. The 4520 has a nice feature set and gives you the option to use 9 or 11 channels but as far as superior sound quality, I don't hear it. I know they claim various sonic improvements and they're probably in the box but my ears can't hear them. I like Neo:X a lot and I'm sure the upgraded Audyssey helps (especially with dual subs) but if I didn't run 9 speakers I would have been plenty happy with my 3311. That being said, I've had no issues and I do like this AVR, I just don't think it's worth the money unless you are going to use more than 7 speakers.
BTW, my speakers are Paradigm which are very efficient and sound fine with this and the 3311. I doubt that power would be an issue unless you're using the most inefficient speakers out there.

Also, and I've said this before, but what is it with the Denon manuals? I'm not the smartest guy around but I don't really consider myself stupid............that is until I try to figure something out in the Denon manual. I can read 5 pages of stuff about any given subject in that damn book and know very little more than I did before I read those 5 pages. It's like they give you a ton of info but without really explaining anything. I still rely on Batpig's Denon for Dummies.
I don't see how anybody (unless you get a bad unit) could dislike this receiver, but IMO it's not worth the additional cost unless you're doing 9 or more speakers.
Also, my experience is the exact opposite of Cvetan1"s regarding heat. At least in my environment, the 4520 is considerably hotter than the 3311 was.

Doug-

I was running just 2-channel as well, with both receivers. The 3312 would get HOT, compared to my current 4520 and would even shut down with extended listening sessions. However, the 3312 is not rated to run 4ohm speakers, as is the 4520.

This is also my experience, but I don't see how the 33XX series would run cooler than the 4520, in any situation... but, I guess each situation is different. It also seems, there are a LOT of issues with some 4520's as well. My first 4520 was DOA.

I don't regret my purchase of the 4520 one bit, except that I do believe the 4311 is a better buy. The sound quality to my ears, was much better than the 3312. However, the amp section is probably the biggest culprit as the 3312 could not handle my Polk LSi's.
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post #3905 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 12:30 PM
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bye bye 4520. thanks guys
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post #3906 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 01:13 PM
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bye bye 4520. thanks guys

Are you not getting a replacement unit?
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post #3907 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 01:37 PM
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Are you not getting a replacement unit?

no. decided against it. going a different route.
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post #3908 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

By the way, I was originally jealous of the "Eco" mode that Onkyo units have been putting in their units since last year, and now Pioneer started doing it this year. When I noticed the red light doesn't appear in standby mode on my 4520, I thought there was something wrong. I was just on Denon's product site and came across this statement on the specs page: "Very low power consumption in standby mode: 0.1 W "

I somehow missed that statement in my initial research. The 0.1 W standby power rating is the same as Onkyo and Pioneer's Eco mode. I am extremely happy to see Denon did this too, as I figured they would include that in their receiver line eventually. Since "green" receivers seem to be the trend, I believe they need to market this feature more than what they are currently doing. This is definitely one feature I was looking to have.

Denon has had these low rates in Standby mode on their models since 2009 listed in the Owner's manual Specification section, the 4520CI specs noted below. smile.gif


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post #3909 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 01:52 PM
 
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Even 5.1 watts is tiny...less than a hallway night light.
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post #3910 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 01:59 PM
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^ Thats's very low to have an active 4 port hub.
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post #3911 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

By the way, I was originally jealous of the "Eco" mode that Onkyo units have been putting in their units since last year, and now Pioneer started doing it this year. When I noticed the red light doesn't appear in standby mode on my 4520, I thought there was something wrong. I was just on Denon's product site and came across this statement on the specs page: "Very low power consumption in standby mode: 0.1 W "

I somehow missed that statement in my initial research. The 0.1 W standby power rating is the same as Onkyo and Pioneer's Eco mode. I am extremely happy to see Denon did this too, as I figured they would include that in their receiver line eventually. Since "green" receivers seem to be the trend, I believe they need to market this feature more than what they are currently doing. This is definitely one feature I was looking to have.

When I turn off my 4520 the red light is on... Does this mean I am not in standby mode?

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post #3912 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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You are in Standby mode, but not the "lowest power" version. The red light indicates you are leaving some of the circuitry active during Standby (e.g. network standby or CEC standby).

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post #3913 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:16 PM
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For you manual averse folks .... HDMI CEC <==> HDMI Control wink.gif

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post #3914 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
I don't regret my purchase of the 4520 one bit, except that I do believe the 4311 is a better buy. The sound quality to my ears, was much better than the 3312. However, the amp section is probably the biggest culprit as the 3312 could not handle my Polk LSi's.

I'm happy with the 4520 also and I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm not. I just feel that it is not worth the extra money if you're not using the additional speakers. I would have gone with the 4311 except that I wanted Neo:X.
It's strange why some 4520's will run hotter than others but there could be other factors contributing to that, I don't know. But for whatever reason, my 4520 does runs hotter than the 3311.

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post #3915 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You are in Standby mode, but not the "lowest power" version. The red light indicates you are leaving some of the circuitry active during Standby (e.g. network standby or CEC standby).

Ok, that makes sense... I leave the network "always on".

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post #3916 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 02:43 PM
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Doug,

You might check to see if more of the zones are powered on than you're actually using.
If you're using a Harmony remote, my understanding is that its power-on command turns on all of the zones.

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post #3917 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

If you're using a Harmony remote, my understanding is that its power-on command turns on all of the zones.

This is the case with my Harmony 880, it's easier to us the phone app for different zones.

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post #3918 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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Ok, that makes sense... I leave the network "always on".

For the time being I am leaving the network hub off until I have a device connected to it that requires network access without having the Denon powered on as well., just about every instance will require the Denon. Might as well save power where I can. smile.gif
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post #3919 of 8833 Old 04-02-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
You might check to see if more of the zones are powered on than you're actually using.
If you're using a Harmony remote, my understanding is that its power-on command turns on all of the zones.


For the first few days I did have all zones powered on without realizing it then AustinJerry showed me how to teach the "One" to power on only the main zone. Since I'm using all 9 amps I'm not sure if that would have affected my set up anyway.

BTW, if you do have the other zones powered on InstaPreview will not work.

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post #3920 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 06:10 AM
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Anyone using the Pandora app on the 4520 itself ever notice that mid song it will sometimes skip to the next song for no reason? I contacted Pandora who confirmed a small number of users have reported the problem but they can not reproduce it. Gave me the standard check your firmware, reboot your router steps.

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post #3921 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

Anyone using the Pandora app on the 4520 itself ever notice that mid song it will sometimes skip to the next song for no reason? I contacted Pandora who confirmed a small number of users have reported the problem but they can not reproduce it. Gave me the standard check your firmware, reboot your router steps.

Jer

 

When the Pandora client experiences any type of network interruption, it will skip ahead to the next song.  I experience this occasionally when listening on my mobile device.  I'm not sure if this is the cause of what you are seeing, but taking a close look at your network connection might be worth a try.

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post #3922 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 08:13 AM
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Not sure if this has been discussed, but what kind of break-in period is needed for the 4520?
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post #3923 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Not sure if this has been discussed, but what kind of break-in period is needed for the 4520?

 

Do you mean for audio quality?  I have never heard if a break-in period for electronics (except for those fringe audiophiles that think an audio cable needs a bread-in period).  Of course, others may disagree.

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post #3924 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Not sure if this has been discussed, but what kind of break-in period is needed for the 4520?
I found that a month was what I took to reach a steady state in terms of the sonic signature... as Jerry said, YMMV.
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post #3925 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Ok, that makes sense... I leave the network "always on".
There were some issues described earlier on if you keep it on - eg the 4520 couldn't start up. I have turned this off, saved some electricity and no more such issues. Cheers.
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post #3926 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 09:25 AM
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There were some issues described earlier on if you keep it on - eg the 4520 couldn't start up. I have turned this off, saved some electricity and no more such issues. Cheers.

I just now turned my network to Off in standy after reading these posts, but prior to this I had it Always On and had no such problems starting it up, turning it on.

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post #3927 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

There were some issues described earlier on if you keep it on - eg the 4520 couldn't start up. I have turned this off, saved some electricity and no more such issues. Cheers.

By turning the network off you lose the ability to control the device from an IOS device until you power on the unit. For some people this is a non issue, but for me if I want to fire up music in the Kitchen from my iPhone I don't want to run down to the basement and turn on the Denon. Everyone has their own requirements.

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post #3928 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

When the Pandora client experiences any type of network interruption, it will skip ahead to the next song.  I experience this occasionally when listening on my mobile device.  I'm not sure if this is the cause of what you are seeing, but taking a close look at your network connection might be worth a try.

Thanks for the input. I have a pretty elaborate network at home with the Comcast cable modem feeding a D-Link wireless router that goes into a server running Microsoft Forefront TMG. I had to create a rule to disable Malware scanning on certain hardware devices like my Sony TV and PS3 for certain network options to work properly. I'll add the Denon to the rule and see how it performs.

Jerry
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post #3929 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

I just now turned my network to Off in standy after reading these posts, but prior to this I had it Always On and had no such problems starting it up, turning it on.

I tested the Network on/off feature last night and confirmed that network on will have the red LED on, network off has no LED in standby mode.
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post #3930 of 8833 Old 04-03-2013, 12:40 PM
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Someone previously asked about a humming noise from the unit. I confirmed that my unit is dead silent, even after being used for a couple hours. Not sure what everyone else's experience is. I am using an external amp, and have mine set to preamp mode. YMMV
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