The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 157 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by aringgo View Post


With what I am reading now, the unit should not lose your "installed settings" with "that" reset sequence. What you did appears to be desperate but appropriate response according to the documentation I am readng.

 

 

Microprocessor Reset - resets the microprocessor only: INFO/BACK

 

Not sure what you are reading, but a microprocessor reset returns the 4520 to its original factory settings, thereby losing not only the configuration customizations, but also the Audyssey calibration.  As noted earlier, restoring from a network configuration save is the quickest way to get the settings and calibration back to what they were.

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:33 AM
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I have experienced the third issue with my 4520.  The first issue is the loss of settings when there is a power interruption.  The second issue is the failure of the front panel headphone jack.  Yesterday, I started getting an intermittent connection when using the Audyssey mic.  It seems to be a mechanical issue with the internal 3.5mm mic jack, perhaps a loose connection on the PCB behind the faceplate.  I can wiggle the jack, and the Audyssey setup screen complains that the connection to the mic has been lost.  It also lost connection several times during a calibration, causing that set of measurements to be lost.  frown.gif

 

I discussed the issue with Crutchfield, from whom I purchased the unit back in October.  They graciously offered to ship me a new replacement unit, and the new unit will be shipped immediately, allowing me to continue to use the current one for the time being.  I mention this because this is an example of good customer service, exceeding my expectations.

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Old 06-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I discussed the issue with Crutchfield, from whom I purchased the unit back in October.  They graciously offered to ship me a new replacement unit, and the new unit will be shipped immediately, allowing me to continue to use the current one for the time being.  I mention this because this is an example of good customer service, exceeding my expectations.

And this is precisely why you should buy from an authorized dealer. Years ago I would have probably bought a receiver from a grey dealer or ebay, but today's electronics are just not as well built like in the past. God forbid you need service and Denon or whomever discovers your warranty is invalid. As a matter of fact, the last time I called Denon for a basic support query, the first question they asked me was where I purchased the unit from.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I have experienced the third issue with my 4520.  The first issue is the loss of settings when there is a power interruption.  The second issue is the failure of the front panel headphone jack.  Yesterday, I started getting an intermittent connection when using the Audyssey mic.  It seems to be a mechanical issue with the internal 3.5mm mic jack, perhaps a loose connection on the PCB behind the faceplate.  I can wiggle the jack, and the Audyssey setup screen complains that the connection to the mic has been lost.  It also lost connection several times during a calibration, causing that set of measurements to be lost.  frown.gif

I discussed the issue with Crutchfield, from whom I purchased the unit back in October.  They graciously offered to ship me a new replacement unit, and the new unit will be shipped immediately, allowing me to continue to use the current one for the time being.  I mention this because this is an example of good customer service, exceeding my expectations.

Just out of curiousity - if you get a new 4520, can you use one of your existing save/load files and restore your old settings on a new machine?

Also, it would interesting to see if the "rogue" Audyssey calibration you came up with earlier this week is a function of mechanical issues with the mic jack, or Audyssey-related.

Stuart

 

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Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

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The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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Old 06-07-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Just out of curiousity - if you get a new 4520, can you use one of your existing save/load files and restore your old settings on a new machine?

Also, it would interesting to see if the "rogue" Audyssey calibration you came up with earlier this week is a function of mechanical issues with the mic jack, or Audyssey-related.

Stuart, I definitely will be trying to load the saved calibration, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'll report the results.

The "rogue" calibration we discussed in the Pro thread was a Pro calibration, so the front panel mic jack was not in play.

And finally, I called Audyssey TS, and I can transfer my Pro license to the replacement unit. I think I am in good shape.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

And finally, I called Audyssey TS, and I can transfer my Pro license to the replacement unit. I think I am in good shape.

I was just going to ask about this. Good to know the license can be transferred to the replacement unit.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:31 PM
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Hi

Having an issue with my new 4520, any help is appreciated.

I can not get either of my samsung players or my DEnon SACD player to pass anj optical or coaxial digital signal to my receiver. DVD and Blu-rays play fine via HDMI, but no sound from CDs goes via the HDMI, when I try to send audio via opt or coax Dig, nothing, I can get analog to the receiver via 6.1 analog inputs. Anyone have any suggestions or had the same issue

Thanks,
Grant
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry

I discussed the issue with Crutchfield, from whom I purchased the unit back in October. They graciously offered to ship me a new replacement unit, and the new unit will be shipped immediately, allowing me to continue to use the current one for the time being. I mention this because this is an example of good customer service, exceeding my expectations.
And this is precisely why you should buy from an authorized dealer. Years ago I would have probably bought a receiver from a grey dealer or ebay, but today's electronics are just not as well built like in the past. God forbid you need service and Denon or whomever discovers your warranty is invalid. As a matter of fact, the last time I called Denon for a basic support query, the first question they asked me was where I purchased the unit from.

I agree 100% ( and AV Science are authorized dealers FYI ),

I had bad experiences with camera and camcorder " grey market " NYC dealers years ago. I'd rather spend a little more for the peace of mind.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sawbones1966 View Post

Hi

Having an issue with my new 4520, any help is appreciated.

I can not get either of my samsung players or my DEnon SACD player to pass anj optical or coaxial digital signal to my receiver. DVD and Blu-rays play fine via HDMI, but no sound from CDs goes via the HDMI, when I try to send audio via opt or coax Dig, nothing, I can get analog to the receiver via 6.1 analog inputs. Anyone have any suggestions or had the same issue

Thanks,
Grant

Grant,

Please check the output settings in your players. Your symptoms are consistent with an inappropriate setting there.
Also, some disc players provide SACD audio only over analog connections.

Exactly what models of Samsung and Denon players do you have? (Knowing that, someone could verify what settings are required.)
What receiver did you have previously?
Did the players send SACD audio over HDMI to it?
If so, in what format -- DSD or LPCM?

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Old 06-07-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RayWK View Post

I am a relative newcomer to the AVSFORUM with the hope of learning more about some products I'm considering for purchase for my first home theater. This is my first posting. Thus, I must note that the points raised by aringgo are waaay beyond the scope of my interest and I would rather see them on another thread. I've waded through 156 pages of postings (so far) and I'm very likely to purchase the Denon AVR-4520 within several months rather than another Denon or Marantz model.

Having said that, I appreciate the comments of aringgo and I would never have known what a 4520 circuit board looks like. Thank you for reading this comment.

I would like Aringgo's comments in this thread. One thread makes my life easier.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:02 PM
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I would like Aringgo's comments in this thread. One thread makes my life easier.

I agree.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

...
What I am saying here is if the unit acts up more than a couple of times get it replaced.
...
Jerry

+1
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Microprocessor Reset - resets the microprocessor only: INFO/BACK

... but a microprocessor reset returns the 4520 to its original factory settings, thereby losing not only the configuration customizations, but also the Audyssey calibration....

There is more than one (1) kind of microprocessor "reset" for the AVR4520 - one returns the "factory settings" thus losing all the "installed settings". Another one "retains" the "installed settings" thus keeping the "installed" in-your-home settings.

There could be more undocumented kinds of resets that only the Denon engineers know about.

The brain and memory of the unit could be "separate" and "distinct" components like any other "computer" available nowadays. One can work, if so designed, on the individual "building blocks". One can erase the memory completely as in a "factory setting" reset to clear the memory part of any "corruption". This is hardly needed nowadays because of the very advanced technologies of manufacturing memory devices.

The AVR settings, whether the installed or factory, are to my mind only "static" data that, in theory at least, do not change by themselves - so there is seldom need to "reset" or erase these.

On the other hand, however, the instructions that are being executed by the "brain" or "arithmetic logic processor" component are sometimes "prefetched and/or cached" and then loaded into a section of the "brain" ahead of time (to make them work faster) for the brain to get them to execute when it can. These instructions being loaded there as a matter of course change often (more than a million times per second "mips") also under the direction of some parts of the brain. All these complexities to make things work and fast are often "not programmed" perfectly to behave appropriately for all situations that could be encountered in the AVR - whether already known, predicted, or still to be imagined. When this "un-imagined" or "un-programmed" situation arises in the AVR- that piece of rock will not react like a "live" animal - so the need to do just a "processor reset" but not erase the "static" in-your-home settings "data".

That was a mouthful - yet it might even be not very technically correct. Sorry but this effort was an attempt to dumb it down a little.
So for the technical purists among you I apologise if parts of the explanation are only "approximately" correct.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by aringgo View Post

There is more than one (1) kind of microprocessor "reset" for the AVR4520 - one returns the "factory settings" thus losing all the "installed settings". Another one "retains" the "installed settings" thus keeping the "installed" in-your-home settings.


That was a mouthful - yet it might even be not very technically correct. Sorry but this effort was an attempt to dumb it down a little.
So for the technical purists among you I apologise if parts of the explanation are only "approximately" correct.

There are three documented resets, a microprocessor reset, a network reset, and a deep reset (a combination of the first two). The processor reset reverts any user-applied changes to their original factory settings, as does the deep reset.

Sorry to have to dumb it down for you even further.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

There are three documented resets, a microprocessor reset, a network reset, and a deep reset (a combination of the first two). The processor reset reverts any user-applied changes to their original factory settings, as does the deep reset.

Sorry to have to dumb it down for you even further.

No need to apologise to me. In fact I should thank you. Please feel free to correct me anytime if you think if will benefit the readers.

Thanks, mate.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:46 PM
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sorry, I wasn't clear, My SACD player passes signal in the analog domainb only, it is CDs I am having a problem with. I can't get any of my 3 players to pass CD audio over a digitallink
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Grant,

Please check the output settings in your players. Your symptoms are consistent with an inappropriate setting there.
Also, some disc players provide SACD audio only over analog connections.

Exactly what models of Samsung and Denon players do you have? (Knowing that, someone could verify what settings are required.)
What receiver did you have previously?
Did the players send SACD audio over HDMI to it?
If so, in what format -- DSD or LPCM?

sorry I wasn't clear, my only problem is sending CD audio via a digital connection, the same on all 3 players, no CD audio over HDMI, coax or optical. My SACD player only sends SACD and DVDA audio via analog, so there is no problem there
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:04 PM
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The 4520CI cannot pass digital audio to Zones 2/3.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=6884&seq=1&format=2
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sawbones1966 View Post

sorry, I wasn't clear, My SACD player passes signal in the analog domainb only, it is CDs I am having a problem with. I can't get any of my 3 players to pass CD audio over a digitallink

A picture of the Input Assinments screen would greatly help in conveying the details of how "your unit sees its own world".
Steps: Using the remote control
1. Click AVR
2. Click Set-Up to bring up the setup menu
3. Using the cursors keys of the remote , Choose the "Inputs" item from the menu on the screen to bring up the inputs sub-menu
4. Next, choose "Inputs Assign" from the sub-menu on the screen
5. Take a picture of the screen
Upload the picture.

Hopefully the picture will clear things up enough as the saying goes "a picture paints a thousand words".

Best if you could include a) a picture of remote control's display as well, and b) description as to which input connections you used for which input/source devices.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbones1966 View Post

Hi

Having an issue with my new 4520, any help is appreciated.

I can not get either of my samsung players or my DEnon SACD player to pass anj optical or coaxial digital signal to my receiver. DVD and Blu-rays play fine via HDMI, but no sound from CDs goes via the HDMI, when I try to send audio via opt or coax Dig, nothing, I can get analog to the receiver via 6.1 analog inputs. Anyone have any suggestions or had the same issue

Thanks,
Grant
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbones1966 View Post

sorry, I wasn't clear, My SACD player passes signal in the analog domainb only, it is CDs I am having a problem with. I can't get any of my 3 players to pass CD audio over a digitallink

Grant,
Each SOURCE should have an "INPUT MODE" submenu with the possible options being AUTO, HDMI, DIGITAL, ANALOG or EXT.IN. If you have this set to EXT. IN for the 5.1 analog output from your CD/SACD player you will NOT be able to pass HDMI or OPT/COAX audio unless you change this setting from EXT IN to AUTO. Input Assign settings for each source are very important too (as aringgo mentioned).
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:43 AM
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Hello all, I am currently running a Denon AVR 3312CI with 4 Mirage OMD5 surround sound speakers, 1 Mirage OMDC1 center speaker and a Mirage MM8 sub...All are hooked up to a 55'' screen with Directv Whome DVR and a PS3, all going through the receiver through the 4.1 slot...

I have been pretty much happy for the last year and a half with the sound quality but as of late I have been having issues with hearing the actual voices of people talking through the center speaker...On most shows I normally have the volume set between 40-46 which sounds good on all fronts, but on other shows it seems I need to turn the volume up to 50-60 to be able to hear the people talking as if they are whispering but when an action scene comes up LOOKOUT the surround sound kicks in and about blows the walls down...

In my 12 by 12 bedroom I think the speakers are a perfect fit and they do sound great which leads me to speculate if I should upgrade my receiver to the 4520ci...

My question to you all is; Will upgrading fix this issue? Also can the 4520ci be used as a 5.1 setup?
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:07 AM
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Hokoo,

One quick-fix would be to turn up the trim level of the center channel in the receiver. That won't invalidate the receiver's Audyssey calibration and you won't have to turn up the over-all volume.

Also, make sure the center channel speaker is angled so it points toward ear-height of the main listening position: tilt it down if it's above your TV, up if it's below. If the speaker is inside an "entertainment center", make sure it protrudes out and is not recessed back from the front of its shelf, Similar recommendations apply to the other front speakers, too.

If your room's furniture or layout has changed since the last time you ran Audyssey, you should run it again. Review the suggestions in the Audyssey FAQ and 101 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993 The instructions in the receiver's manual are overly simplified.

Yes, the 4520 can drive a 5.1 speaker system with no problems. Unused speaker amps can be used to drive speakers elsewhere in your house as separate Zones. It also has features which can help clarify dialog -- an explicit dialog (center channel) adjustment, for example. I wouldn't consider it just as a "fix" for your problem, though. It has many other useful upgrades, like Audyssy XT32.

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Old 06-08-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post


Also, make sure the center channel speaker is angled so it points toward ear-height of the main listening position: tilt it down if it's above your TV, up if it's below. If the speaker is inside an "entertainment center", make sure it protrudes out and is not recessed back from the front of its shelf, Similar recommendations apply to the other front speakers, too.

Remember, it's those "omnipolar" Mirage speakers designed to produce very little direct sound. The tweeters are aimed straight up and the midrange drivers are angled. Aiming the drivers at MLP might give worse results because of the built-in reflectors / diffusers.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:45 AM
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Ok I messed around with a few settings and moved a couple things on my sub...

Sub was at 0 on Phase know so I moved it to 180 and moved Low-Pass Filter knob from max 200hz down to 140hz

On the receiver I left the Channel levels as is;
Front L -5.5db
Front R -5.5db
Center -8.5db
Sub +3.5db
Also left the crossover frequencies alone at;
Front 150Hz
Center 120Hz
Surround 90Hz

I changed the Bass settings under LPF for LFE from 150Hz to 100Hz athough not sure what it is

I also changed under Audyssey settings Dynamic Volume from Evening to Day

Will see if that helps
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokoo View Post

Hello all, I am currently running a Denon AVR 3312CI with 4 Mirage OMD5 surround sound speakers, 1 Mirage OMDC1 center speaker and a Mirage MM8 sub...All are hooked up to a 55'' screen with Directv Whome DVR and a PS3, all going through the receiver through the 4.1 slot...

I have been pretty much happy for the last year and a half with the sound quality but as of late I have been having issues with hearing the actual voices of people talking through the center speaker...On most shows I normally have the volume set between 40-46 which sounds good on all fronts, but on other shows it seems I need to turn the volume up to 50-60 to be able to hear the people talking as if they are whispering but when an action scene comes up LOOKOUT the surround sound kicks in and about blows the walls down...

In my 12 by 12 bedroom I think the speakers are a perfect fit and they do sound great which leads me to speculate if I should upgrade my receiver to the 4520ci...

My question to you all is; Will upgrading fix this issue? Also can the 4520ci be used as a 5.1 setup?

I don't think upgrading to the 4520 is going to magically solve your issue. Dialogue intelligibility is usually affected by factors other than the brand of the AVR. Since you say that everything had been OK until recently, this indicates that something has changed. Have you moved anything around, added a piece of furniture, or done anything that might affect the room's influence on your sound?

As Seldon suggests, if anything has changed, you should consider re-running the Audyssey calibration. I would re-run it anyway, paying close attention to microphone positioning, and making sure you use all 8 measurement positions. If you have not already done so, read and follow the microphone positioning tips in the Audyssey FAQ.

The other thing I would normally recommend is to make sure the center channel speaker is positioned properly. However, the Mirage center has a peculiar design, so I'm not sure how it should be positioned.

Edit: I would also turn off Audyssey dynamic volume. I don't know why you changed the sub phase--that was a bad idea. If you leave it at 180, then you definitely need to re-run Audyssey. I would change it back.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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^Jerry, I agree with all you've posted except I can't figure why you said to turn off DVol?

I've recommended using DVol for the same problem the OP's describing-dialog problems. He has to turn up MV to hear dialog clearly, but then it's way too loud for the next scene, etc. I use DVol on eve setting for all TV and also when not going full-bore reference listening on action movies.

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Old 06-08-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hokoo View Post

Hello all, I am currently running a Denon AVR 3312CI with 4 Mirage OMD5 surround sound speakers, 1 Mirage OMDC1 center speaker and a Mirage MM8 sub...All are hooked up to a 55'' screen with Directv Whome DVR and a PS3, all going through the receiver through the 4.1 slot...

I have been pretty much happy for the last year and a half with the sound quality but as of late I have been having issues with hearing the actual voices of people talking through the center speaker...On most shows I normally have the volume set between 40-46 which sounds good on all fronts, but on other shows it seems I need to turn the volume up to 50-60 to be able to hear the people talking as if they are whispering but when an action scene comes up LOOKOUT the surround sound kicks in and about blows the walls down...

In my 12 by 12 bedroom I think the speakers are a perfect fit and they do sound great which leads me to speculate if I should upgrade my receiver to the 4520ci...

My question to you all is; Will upgrading fix this issue? Also can the 4520ci be used as a 5.1 setup?
The Audyssey MultiEQ XT calibration should result in a blended sound field if done right for your front set of speakers. When you discuss upgrading from a 3313CI to a 4520CI for improved audio related to dialog with only a 12 x 12 foot room, I think going to a AVR that supports Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 with SubEQ (4311CI, X4000, SR7008, 4520CI) would benefit you the the most, specially calibrating your sub against the small surround speakers you utilize.

DVol being on should only help with listening to dialog when the other movie sounds seems to dominate, but normally i have it off.

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Old 06-08-2013, 02:10 PM
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^Ah, rereading I see you guys may be responding to specific mention of the surrounds coming in loud. If it's mostly the surrounds that are too prominant due to DEQ, then the RLO can be used to tame DEQ yet allow use of DVol to even out the action peaks and dialog lows.

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Old 06-08-2013, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokoo View Post

Hello all, I am currently running a Denon AVR 3312CI with 4 Mirage OMD5 surround sound speakers, 1 Mirage OMDC1 center speaker and a Mirage MM8 sub...All are hooked up to a 55'' screen with Directv Whome DVR and a PS3, all going through the receiver through the 4.1 slot...

I have been pretty much happy for the last year and a half with the sound quality but as of late I have been having issues with hearing the actual voices of people talking through the center speaker...On most shows I normally have the volume set between 40-46 which sounds good on all fronts, but on other shows it seems I need to turn the volume up to 50-60 to be able to hear the people talking as if they are whispering but when an action scene comes up LOOKOUT the surround sound kicks in and about blows the walls down...

In my 12 by 12 bedroom I think the speakers are a perfect fit and they do sound great which leads me to speculate if I should upgrade my receiver to the 4520ci...

My question to you all is; Will upgrading fix this issue? Also can the 4520ci be used as a 5.1 setup?

Before upgrading your AVR, as SOM suggests, if you have Dyn EQ enabled, try changing the Reference Level Offset (p. 101 OM) to 10 or 15 which will reduce the surround/bass boost and thereby improve the center channel dialog intelligibility.

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Old 06-08-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As already mentioned, you have at least two options to improve the dialogue intelligibility ....

1. Dialogue Enhancer (p. 121 OM) - Low, Med, High (try Med or High)
2. Reference Level Offset (p. 125 OM) - 0, 5, 10, 15 (try raising to 10 for TV and music sources)

Just a FYI as alternative's to using 4520, those features are also present in Denon AVR-x4000, and Marantz SR7800. Of course the 4520 is the best of the three. wink.gif

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