The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 163 - AVS Forum
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post #4861 of 9894 Old 06-16-2013, 10:09 PM
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Clearly having to perform a microprocessor reset regularly is not a good sign, although before doing so, it's generally best to perform a "soft" reset first (ie. unplug the power cord) rather than doing a "hard" reset (ie. microprocessor reset). On the PS3, set the "Deep Color Output" setting to OFF. Also, try doing the HDMI HDCP reset described in my post below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_L11

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post #4862 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 06:58 AM
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I hope Sony does a better job with the PS4. I have been reading threads about PS3 having HDMI handshake issues since the HDMI versions came out.
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post #4863 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 11:44 AM
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Whenever I switch from my 4520 from my PC input to my PS3 input, I have to turn off the 4520 and turn it back on. I can live with it but it would be nice not to have the handshake problem.

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post #4864 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kertofer View Post

I hope Sony does a better job with the PS4. I have been reading threads about PS3 having HDMI handshake issues since the HDMI versions came out.

The most common issue with the PS3 is "video" related although generally resolved by setting the "Deep Color Output" setting on the PS3 to OFF.

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post #4865 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Whenever I switch from my 4520 from my PC input to my PS3 input, I have to turn off the 4520 and turn it back on. I can live with it but it would be nice not to have the handshake problem.

This is one of those times when a Harmony remote comes in handy as it can quickly power down and power back up the devices in the appropriate order to mitigate any HDMI handshake issues. Although with the more advanced remote that the 4520CI uses, this can also just as easily be done using the "auto" Macro keys (p. 165 OM) on the 4520CI remote as noted in the image below.

Gary Hudson likes this.

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post #4866 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This is one of those times when a Harmony remote comes in handy as it can quickly power down and power back up the devices in the appropriate order to mitigate any HDMI handshake issues. Although with the more advanced remote that the 4520CI uses, this can also just as easily be done using the "auto" Macro keys (p. 165 OM) on the 4520CI remote as noted in the image below.

Thanks I never thought of doing a macro to eliminate the problem.

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post #4867 of 9894 Old 06-17-2013, 10:49 PM
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I got a fun discussion for the AV-4520ci crew.

Standby power!

So I run all my home theater through 2 arrays of power conditioners, first my panamax M7500-pro (with buck and boost converters, and balanced power), and then cascaded off that my Furman F1500-UPS which protects my projector from power failures.

Why? Protection, sound quality, and most importantly, a way to handle energy management!


I've logged all the voltages / currents through my units and separately with a multi meter to validate their power consumptions.

In my case I keep 99% of my setup powered down to keep component run-time low and save overall energy. My conditioners physically keep the outlets off to my units, such that I'm just powering my logitech harmony 1100 charger, 3d glasses chargers, and lights on the conditioner for a total of 1.3 watts!

In the case of AVR-4520ci, running standby mode only consumes a delta 1.2 watts (2.5W total). With network mode toggled on, the delta power consumption in standby is 4 watts (6.5W Total).

With power this low, the whole unit seems to be hard isolated through a relay when in standby (apparent with the audible click over on power on).

When the unit is fully powered on, with no audio or video output, the Denon AVR-4520ci pulls a delta 146 watts (149W total)!


In my case the Home Theater gets used 2-3 times a week, for maybe 2 hour at a time, so keeping the heat output low, and energy levels down is my main concerns.


Normally a lot of people would argue about component heat uniformity ("Warm up Phase") to give predictable responses, but since the unit is already hard cut off with the relay in "stand by" we don't have to worry about this.


So the real question?

The curves of standby power and their effects on component life vs. keeping the unit hard powered off during extended non-operation. What is better?

For someone that wants to access the network features, obviously keeping the unit powered in standby with network on (only 4 watts total) is the best option. I'm actually surprised its so low! This is a great design from Denon to keep energy that low!

For someone that hardly uses their theater and wants to save additional power, I don't believe "hard cutting off" the unit through a power conditioner will degrade the AVR. Normally what is of concern is the initial transients of the system (charge up of the caps to steady state).

Since the AVR is hard isolated in standby (allowing the 1.2 watt standby) very little circuits are turned on, I believe the transients are very low (will try to hook up a scope one of these days)

In this case, I think "hard cutting off" the system wins out when we look at typical MTBFs of components in steady state vs. "non-operational life".

Anyways, just a fun discussion for the thread!
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post #4868 of 9894 Old 06-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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can the AVR-4520CI handle 220v voltage? I'm want to ask a friend carry one to India.
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post #4869 of 9894 Old 06-18-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabelean View Post

can the AVR-4520CI handle 220v voltage? I'm want to ask a friend carry one to India.
If you buy your set in USA, no.

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post #4870 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabelean View Post

can the AVR-4520CI handle 220v voltage? I'm want to ask a friend carry one to India.

If you are purchasing outside of the USA, then 220v units are more readily available, otherwise if inside the USA, give 220-Electronics a call, as they have the 4311CI available but don't have the 4520CI listed on their website, so you may be able to get them to make the alteration given enough advance notice.

http://www.220-electronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=denon

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post #4871 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 07:29 AM
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Judging by their prices, it's not that cheaper. If you are in Singapore, try KEC at Adelphi complex..

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post #4872 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 10:55 AM
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I just received a reconditioned unit today from accessories4less.. $1599 free shipping and a free HDMI cable. big deal

Anyway it's probably one of the ones you guys sent back LOL

Looks great.. everything looks brand new except the CD manual case is a little scratched. That was the only sign of not new in the whole package.


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post #4873 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

I just received a reconditioned unit today from accessories4less.. $1599 free shipping and a free HDMI cable. big deal

Anyway it's probably one of the ones you guys sent back LOL

Looks great.. everything looks brand new except the CD manual case is a little scratched. That was the only sign of not new in the whole package.

Good luck. That's where I purchased mine from and it took 4 units to finally get one that's been flawless. What are the first 3 numbers of your serial just to give us an idea of build date.

Jer
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212

What are the prominent issues I should be looking for?


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post #4875 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 02:52 PM
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Can anyone recommend this receiver to me?
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post #4876 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 03:26 PM
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Ok, I read that thread. IMO a 4520 would be what you are looking for. Give me a call - we have 2 in stock. smile.gif

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post #4877 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 07:28 PM
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My unit from them has been flawless for a couple of months. I have a laptop fan on top of it to pull hot air out. The case is always cool to the touch this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

I just received a reconditioned unit today from accessories4less.. $1599 free shipping and a free HDMI cable. big deal

Anyway it's probably one of the ones you guys sent back LOL

Looks great.. everything looks brand new except the CD manual case is a little scratched. That was the only sign of not new in the whole package.
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post #4878 of 9894 Old 06-19-2013, 08:48 PM
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Ok, I read that thread. IMO a 4520 would be what you are looking for. Give me a call - we have 2 in stock. smile.gif

I can confirm, Craig has been awesome so far with prices and obviously this website is the ultimate support. I wish I would have known to order from them sooner!

Oh well, live and learn.
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post #4879 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 12:11 AM
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Ok, I read that thread. IMO a 4520 would be what you are looking for. Give me a call - we have 2 in stock. smile.gif
Thank you, sir.
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post #4880 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

212

What are the prominent issues I should be looking for?

Mainly video problems. Green screen or no video output. People will often claim handshake issues but I have never had a handshake issue on a properly running AVR. Other people claim they have to perform a microprocessor reset every one in a while and in my opinion that is not acceptable. I only say this because my 4th 4520 has been flawless with ZERO problems and I leave Zone 2 on 24x7.

With a 212 serial you have a unit manufactured December of 2012 so you should be in good shape. That is also my manufacture date.

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post #4881 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 04:55 AM
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That's good to hear. What's up with the remote control backlight? Does it have a movement sensor? Mine keeps flicking on and off when it is in direct line with the speakers or it's just doing it and something is wrong?


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post #4882 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

That's good to hear. What's up with the remote control backlight? Does it have a movement sensor? Mine keeps flicking on and off when it is in direct line with the speakers or it's just doing it and something is wrong?

The backlight is quite sensitive, and can be annoying. You can access the remote control configuration menu, and one of the options is to turn the backlight off.

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post #4883 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
That's good to hear. What's up with the remote control backlight? Does it have a movement sensor? Mine keeps flicking on and off when it is in direct line with the speakers or it's just doing it and something is wrong?

Ha - mine likes to indicate when there is an explosion on screen - can't wait to watch it go on and off during Das Boot ! eek.gif I just turn it upside down during movies..............

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post #4884 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 09:29 AM
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Does anyone know whether LFC functions with Dynamic EQ both ON and OFF? confused.gif

Thanks!


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post #4885 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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On my X4000 the LFC setting seems to be independent of the Dynamic EQ/Vol settings. It doesn't "layer" the way Dyn Vol and Dyn EQ do.

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post #4886 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 09:50 AM
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It was really easy to set up. I used custom amp config cause my LCR's are all powered but my four surrounds need the amps. Audyssey was super fast compared to my Pioneer MCCAC.


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post #4887 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

On my X4000 the LFC setting seems to be independent of the Dynamic EQ/Vol settings. It doesn't "layer" the way Dyn Vol and Dyn EQ do.

Batpig,

What is your take on the effectiveness of the LFC feature? Is it somewhat of a gimmick or does it really help with diminishing the heavy bass beyond the listening room? confused.gif

Also, at what cost, what is the compromise to me made with bass enjoyment within the listening room when using LFC?

I have others upstairs in my home and neighbors homes 20 feet away from my home and I would like to be able to at times not freak them out too much! eek.gif

Thanks!


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post #4888 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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It works well for me, I use it for late night viewing while the wife is asleep upstairs and the combination of the increased clarity provided by XT32 and the bass attenuation of LFC has dramatically reduced the incidence of complaints from the wife. The truest empirical test! smile.gif Previously (Denon 2113 with XT) I had to set the ref level offset at 10 or 15 and Dynamic Volume at Heavy (Midnight) setting and I still got some complaints with bass effects and louder passages. With LFC engaged, combined with the much smoother bass calibration + extra dialogue clarity provided by XT32, I now only use a ref level offset of 5dB and keep Dyn Vol on Medium. It's a better overall solution because there are superior clarity and dynamics overall but I can target the bass directly with LFC as opposed to dulling the overall soundfield by maxing out the ref offset and Dyn Vol levels.

I quoted AustinJerry's measurements of LFC below, you can see there is a significant amount of attenuation in the bass. However, due to whatever "psychoacoustic processing" secret sauce Audyssey does, it certainly doesn't SOUND like there is 20-30dB of bass attenuation.

The strength of the effect really varies based on the "containment amount" setting (varying from 1-7). At the lowest setting (1) it barely feels like the bass is being attenuated, although Jerry's graphs demonstrate that there is actually around 15dB of attenuation at the lower frequencies. Obviously you don't get that "feel it in your body" rumble but that's precisely the stuff that transmits through walls which you are trying to eliminate... overall at the lower containment settings the bass doesn't feel that neutered though. As you crank up the containment, the bass gets more and more anemic, at levels above the default (4) it definitely feels neutered, although not nearly as bad as if you switched the sub off completely for example.

Overall it works as advertised. I definitely wouldn't call it a "gimmick". You can dial in the containment setting that gives you a good balance of preserving bass impact while cutting out the transmission through walls.

Quote:
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Measurement is taken from the Sub1 pre-out.  LFC requires Audyssey to be engaged.  DEQ and DVol are off, of course.  At 20Hz, toggling through LFC values of 1,2,3, and 4 results in a decrease of -15dB, -20dB, -24dB, and -27dB, respectively.  Pretty kind to the neighbors, I suspect.  smile.gif




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post #4889 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 11:38 AM
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^^^

VERY informative post Batpig!

Up and beyond as usual... thanks! biggrin.gif



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post #4890 of 9894 Old 06-20-2013, 12:35 PM
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I think now that it is here, any Receiver or Pre that I purchase will have to have this LFC feature for use in Condo's systems. Hopefully other manufacturers will adopt this feature soon or I will only have the option of a couple of D&M models.

Chucka
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