The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 194 - AVS Forum
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post #5791 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I replaced my 4310 with a 4520, and added wide speakers ( I was running a 7.1 system ) for a 9.1 setup. That made a noticable improvement in the sound field and added more immersion during movies for sure. Then I got some smaller speakers for heights and a 2 channel amp, for a 11.1 setup. It's even better. Go the full monte - 11.1 using NEO:X sounds outstanding. I just need my 2nd subwoofer now................... smile.gif

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

+1 on the full monte, 11.1 + NeoX.

You guys may have covered this, but I'm assuming you both prefer NeoX to DSX. Wondering if you would share your opinions why. I have a 11.1 system using a Denon 4311. The upgrade bug is always biting. smile.gif

Thanks,
John

Regards,
John
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post #5792 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 11:11 AM
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I think DSX sounds great on the front stage if you have wides or heights but takes too much away from the surrounds in order to achieve that. NeoX sounds good all the way around.

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post #5793 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

I think DSX sounds great on the front stage if you have wides or heights but takes too much away from the surrounds in order to achieve that. NeoX sounds good all the way around.

+1 exactly, and I kinda feel "guilty" at saying this, as the original driver for me doing this was DSX and Chris K and my chats with him on the Audyssey Tech facebook page.....how can i say I like his competiion better? Yet like Doug stated DSX took the ambience from the surrounds too much.....
Much more details in this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrade-your-ht-room-via-audysseydsx-dolbypl-iiz-dts-neo-x

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post #5794 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 01:05 PM
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I'm using Neo:X wides on my X4000 and prefer it over DSX. I wasn't really noticing much difference when watching movies but then in one scene of Band of Brothers. The characters where walking through a large stone hallway and the DSX sounded horrible. So I have been sticking with Neo:X and like it. For music I am still playing around but usually I go for stereo.
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post #5795 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 03:32 PM
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btw, Denon facebook page invites people to post their HT set-up, mine is there:
https://www.facebook.com/DenonNorthAmerica
Quote:
At Denon, we're always excited to see how you use our products to create the ultimate home theater setup.

Share your home theater photos with us in the comments!

I've got a reply by a Yuuki Takahashi, appears he is a Denon staff, possible directly related to the 4520?
Quote:
Great!! It is a pleasure to see this. 4520 has been my best works ever.

I work for a Japanese company, so at times the "jing-lish" translation comes across differently, "my best works ever" could mean he helped on the project in some capacity, or was even Chief Engineer on it....anyone here know Takahashi-san?

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post #5796 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I replaced my 4310 with a 4520, and added wide speakers ( I was running a 7.1 system ) for a 9.1 setup. That made a noticable improvement in the sound field and added more immersion during movies for sure. Then I got some smaller speakers for heights and a 2 channel amp, for a 11.1 setup. It's even better. Go the full monte - 11.1 using NEO:X sounds outstanding. I just need my 2nd subwoofer now................... smile.gif

If you had to choose wides or heights, but not both, which one would you choose?

Thank you

hsb

Thanks,
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post #5797 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 07:20 PM
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^Audyssey recommends wides before heights.


Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #5798 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 08:22 PM
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Yup, I know. But I wanted to ask folks who have tried both. Just to see what user feedback was like.

thnx

hsb

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #5799 of 9676 Old 09-25-2013, 10:22 PM
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Audyssey is right. Wides before heights

But if you want to try switching between DSX IIz and NeoX, only heights give you that option.
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post #5800 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 08:04 AM
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I have an issue with my input switching on my receiver when my devices are turned off and I select watch cable on my harmony one remote the input always defaults to Blu-ray when it starts up and I have to go to help to change it. Is there a setting that is forcing the 4520 to start on Blu-ray when it first powers on?
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post #5801 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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It's not a setting on the receiver, there is no "default input" setting at all. Most likely it's HDMI-CEC in your Blu-ray player taking control of the receiver. You could try turning HDMI-CEC in the player off, or alternately add a second "Input CBL/SAT" command at the end of the Activity initial command sequence in the Harmony setup.

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post #5802 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It's not a setting on the receiver, there is no "default input" setting at all. Most likely it's HDMI-CEC in your Blu-ray player taking control of the receiver. You could try turning HDMI-CEC in the player off, or alternately add a second "Input CBL/SAT" command at the end of the Activity initial command sequence in the Harmony setup.

I have an Oppo 103, and have a similar issue with regard to using one of its HDMI inputs as the settings on the player for one of my Activities. Ultimately I found the only way - at least for me - to have the player move to a different input by design on power-up was to add a time-delayed command at the end of my Harmony Activity string. Or leave the player as "always on" to that setting, and then have the Harmony switch back to my BluRay input with an Input command on my BluRay Activity.

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post #5803 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 12:30 PM
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Well, I never have this issue, so something is different in how our systems are configured.  I don't use CEC, so as BP mentioned, that may be the cause.  My Harmony One configuration allows me to specify what input the 4520 should be set to when everything is powered on, and it works 100% of the time exactly as it should.


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post #5804 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Well, I never have this issue, so something is different in how our systems are configured.  I don't use CEC, so as BP mentioned, that may be the cause.  My Harmony One configuration allows me to specify what input the 4520 should be set to when everything is powered on, and it works 100% of the time exactly as it should.

Jerry - my Oppo 103 example was meant by way of illustration wrt Harmony. The input switching recognition issue is actually within the Oppo's selections, as the BluRay player automatically defaults to its BluRay input, rather than the last selected HDMI input on the 103, when it's powered on. The workarounds are the ones I mentioned for the Activity: leaving the Oppo as always on or a time-delayed command at the end of the Activity string to switch Oppo inputs after the unit's been powered on for 5-10 seconds.

I have no problem with the input settings on the Denon itself. But I agree that leaving CEC off is good procedure for trouble shooting: I've had it off in my setup pretty much from the beginning.

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post #5805 of 9676 Old 09-26-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Just received and installed a Sony XBR65X900a 4K flat panel.  With IP Scaler = On in the 4520, the Sony will not see a signal.  I tried all IP Scaler settings, from 4K down to 480i, and regardless of the setting, if the 4520 is scaling the video, the Sony refuses to recognize the signal.  With IP Scaler = Off, the signal is passed through the 4520 and up-converted in the Sony just fine.

Anyone else out there with a 4520 and a 4K display that can test this out?

This issue has been resolved. The reason why 4K up-scaling wasn't working is that I have a Darblet in the HDMI signal chain between the 4520 and the Sony. The current model Darblet will not pass 4K video. I removed it from the chain and verified that 4K up-scaling in the 4520 works just fine.

However, I have decided to keep the Darblet in the signal path and let the Somy do the up-scaling, for two reasons. First, I was not able to perceive any difference where the up-scaling was being done. And second, this way I can continue to enjoy the enhancements the Darblet provides.

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post #5806 of 9676 Old 09-27-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

Hi
Had the 4520 ci for 9 months
It has been good until
Today it is just shutting down and the light is flashing red
Unplugged it a few times
Any advice?

I saw this post, from right after the 9/9 firmware release came out. I only accepted that firmware this week, and now my receiver is also acting similar to what is described above. If I "watch" the feed from my Dish 622 receiver, it will play for hours with no problems. The instant I start to skip forward or back, or even make rapid changes to the volume, the receiver will _randomly_ decide to power down, with the power button flashing red. I then am forced to push power button (either the front button, or the power button on the remote), which seems to (essentially) reset the flashing power light, and then I have to push power again, to power it up. Once it begins playing content again, it will work fine, until you attempt to begin jumping around, or dinking with the volume.

I've completely pulled the power on the receiver, thinking that it might be in some "unstable state", but that did nothing to help the situation.

Bottom line, it looks like this new firmware has radically screwed up something. I'm just wondering if there are others (besides me, and Howard) who are seeing this behavior? And all of this leads to... is there any way at all to revert to an earlier firmware version? At present, it makes it impossible to use a DVR, and even adjusting the volume is "hit or miss".

Thanks for your thoughts/help!

(I did see someone post a slightly similar problem, related to using Pure, but I'm not operating in Pure mode, so that isn't my problem either.)
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post #5807 of 9676 Old 09-28-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

[quote name="AustinJerry" url="/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/5660_20#post_23724316"]Just received and installed a Sony XBR65X900a 4K flat panel. With IP Scaler = On in the 4520, the Sony will not see a signal. I tried all IP Scaler settings, from 4K down to 480i, and regardless of the setting, if the 4520 is scaling the video, the Sony refuses to recognize the signal. With IP Scaler = Off, the signal is passed through the 4520 and up-converted in the Sony just fine.Anyone else out there with a 4520 and a 4K display that can test this out?[/quote]This issue has been resolved. The reason why 4K up-scaling wasn't working is that I have a Darblet in the HDMI signal chain between the 4520 and the Sony. The current model Darblet will not pass 4K video. I removed it from the chain and verified that 4K up-scaling in the 4520 works just fine.However, I have decided to keep the Darblet in the signal path and let the Somy do the up-scaling, for two reasons. First, I was not able to perceive any difference where the up-scaling was being done. And second, this way I can continue to enjoy the enhancements the Darblet provides.

Yep, the darblet is def not compatible with 4K sources. However, like you, myself and other 4K owners, let the Sony handle the upscaling. So far, I'd say until someone like lumagen come up with a 4K scaler, the in built scaling is the way to go. That's coming from the projector owners side too where it's comparatively easy to compare the quality thanks to screen size. I'm just pleased the 4520 passes 4K smoothly when fed it straight up, not that there's been much to view. Just need a decent 4K player, an upgrade to hdmi 2.0 and some content to go with it..


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post #5808 of 9676 Old 09-28-2013, 11:21 AM
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Hey guys, I have a question. If I am outputting 2 channel Analog via Phono (Record Player) or via CD inputs and I have Main+LFE on in Bass management while in Direct mode. Is the Denon having to re digitize the signal to add the subwoofers? Or is the signal still staying analog with the Denon passing any LFE to the subs along with the mains?

I thought I had read somewhere that when adding the subs back into the mix that the AV has to re digitize the signal to do it. Am I correct or incorrect?

Thank you!
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post #5809 of 9676 Old 09-28-2013, 11:23 AM
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Correct. Digitization has to occur for bass management to take place, but only for that bass signal.

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post #5810 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 03:48 PM
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Just ran Audyssey XT32 a couple of days ago and very pleased with the results (thanks AustinJerry and SoundofMind - the subs sound great - for all your help and advice and well as all the helpful links in this thread from batpig). The question I have is whether or not there is an easy way to switch between the various modes of Audyssey with a Harmony remote? Also, saved the config.dat file with network setting in the off position (not set to always on) but have not been able to check and see the contents of the .dat file. Does anyone know of some safe free software that will allow me to see the contents of that file so I know it's good? Last question is whether or not changing the distances calculated by Audyssey will invalidate the results? It was only off by .1 feet on my fronts and wides but I don't know if it is worth it to change it or not - probably does not make that much of a difference but just wanted to get the groups take on it.
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post #5811 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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For the Harmony read here: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=106

If you google "free hex editor" you will find many options. You might even be able to open it in notepad or the like just to view the characters and confirm they're not call zeroes.

What makes you think Audyssey's distances were off? Especially with the precision to know that it's off by ONE INCH?

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post #5812 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 04:01 PM
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I agree with BP. I question your ability to physically measure with more accuracy than Audyssey can measure electronically. My recommendation would be to trust Audyssey and leave the distances as calculated.

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post #5813 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 04:42 PM
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Thanks AustinJerry and batpig for the quick response. I should have been more clear about the measurement by Audyssey that was different by .1 feet. It was actually the difference between the FL/FR and the FLW/FRW that was different by .1 feet and not actually my physical difference of the measurement that I made. It was indeed very accurate but just different by .1 feet which I know is not that much and I am just being particular. I will check out your link batpig and get that setup on my Harmony remote. Oh yeah, one last question - what Audyssey setting does everyone recommend for various sources? I have read to use straight up Audyssey for movies and tv and to use Audyssey flat for music. Listen to a blu ray concert of U2 360 in DTS master audio and DTS neo X in 11.2 in Audyssey flat and it sounded great as well as Avatar in 3D with DTS master audio and DTS neo X in 11.2 but in regular Audyssey and it sounded great as well! Just wanted to hear from the group on reasons/preferences for using either one.
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post #5814 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofsoren View Post

Just ran Audyssey XT32 a couple of days ago and very pleased with the results (thanks AustinJerry and SoundofMind - the subs sound great - for all your help and advice and well as all the helpful links in this thread from batpig). The question I have is whether or not there is an easy way to switch between the various modes of Audyssey with a Harmony remote? Also, saved the config.dat file with network setting in the off position (not set to always on) but have not been able to check and see the contents of the .dat file. Does anyone know of some safe free software that will allow me to see the contents of that file so I know it's good? Last question is whether or not changing the distances calculated by Audyssey will invalidate the results? It was only off by .1 feet on my fronts and wides but I don't know if it is worth it to change it or not - probably does not make that much of a difference but just wanted to get the groups take on it.

Hi
You may wish to know that the numbers Audyssey comes up with are not the same as the physical measurements you get with a tape.
Anyway, if it's only an inch or so, I would be very happy with the result wink.gif

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post #5815 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 07:22 PM
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Pete, I know that the distances for subs are influenced by the delays associated with the internal ams and circuitry, but I didn't think this was the case for passive satellite speakers. AFAIK, these distances should be spot on. What makes you think differently?

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post #5816 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Pete, I know that the distances for subs are influenced by the delays associated with the internal ams and circuitry, but I didn't think this was the case for passive satellite speakers. AFAIK, these distances should be spot on. What makes you think differently?
IIRC the Audyssey also does some phase difference calculations?
And besides, he did say one inch... which IMO is spot on and I won't really get too fussed about it... cheers

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post #5817 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 07:42 PM
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Agreed!


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post #5818 of 9676 Old 09-29-2013, 08:12 PM
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Batpig - thanks for the help with the Harmony codes - they worked great! Yeah, the difference was just over one inch and yes I was being a little fussy. Actually, I think Audyssey got it spot on on the distances - I had just thought I had exactly placed my speaker to precise distances from the calibration mic but truthfully they were probably off by the .1 that Audyssey measured. I am very happy with he results - now on to acoustical treatments with the help of REW to address any peaks and valleys in the frequency response. An audiophiles work is never done - thanks again to everyone for their input!
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post #5819 of 9676 Old 09-30-2013, 04:55 AM
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^As to distances, I carefully measure physically FR/L to MLP because I enjoy a lot of native Stereo music and I've found that enhances the front soundstage irt things like imaging.  Nonetheless, on many calibrations over the years  I am "off" by .1' per Audyssey.  IIRC Jerry has said he likes to do a single mic measurement at MLP and run the autosetup calculate step to confirm that Audyssey measures the distances are acoustically equal. He'll make slight speaker placement adjustments till it is.  (Or untill his OCD meds are increased:D).  Seriously, I may well try that next calibration (or get my meds increased). 

 

I have at times adjusted the FR vs FL distance/delay setting manually if on a particular recording it seems that the lead vocal is unintentionally too far off from the center.  But I then reset it back because although it does not invalidate the calibration it certainly can affect the end result in a complex way.  For ex., IIRC some folks like Jerry and Keith may use a permanent slight distance tweak  to smooth the FR at the "splice" (around the crossover) between sub(s) and FR/L and sub(s) and CC.  That requires good measurement skills and a good tool like REW.

 

That said, in my room speakers and MLP cannot be placed symmetrically from the side walls and for certain Stereo recordings that may well have a more obvious effect than with others. Or those recordings may have been mastered poorly, I dunno.:eek:  In contrast, IME with almost all native MC material (film or music) it is far less crucial-in that case the CC becomes the controlling factor.

 

As to which Audyssey curve to use, it comes down to a matter of taste. See Keith's FAQ here:http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_a7

 

Most folks use the standard reference curve for everything as it sounds quite pleasing in our small residential-sized rooms.  Film is recorded to a standard and Audyssey matches that standard quite well.  Music, in contrast, is not recorded to any formal standard.  The Flat does not have the HF rolloff so will sound brighter.  Depending on the source that may be pleasing or may seem harsh.  I use Flat for some  poorer quality music recordings that sound "dull".  DynEQ also boosts the highs (it boosts LF more, and it boosts the surrounds level if they are engaged) so I factor that in. YMMV. :) 


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post #5820 of 9676 Old 09-30-2013, 09:49 AM
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Hi all,
I have a question. I got a 4520ci, "B" stock Saturday. I ran through the setup and it worked fine. I listened to a Couple of BD movies in lossless 7.1. Really like what I was hearing.
Yesterday I ran the unit for about 10 hours watching Football and some network shows via my HR24-200.

At some point I lost all output from the front 3 channels. I was getting surround info to the surrounds and backs. It was pretty late, so I did not have much time to troubleshoot. I did try a processor reset, (of course I spaced saving my settings)...then skipped all of the setup steps in the wizard (I just wanted to see if I would get some sound out of the thing). I tried the radio to eliminate external devices. Nothing, no sound. I did not try any of the surround modes.

I have some thought on what I want to try, but also thought that some of the group might have better ideas.

So the question is, does anyone have any recommendations on how the best proceed with troubleshooting?
I hope to have some time this evening to get into it.

Thanks,
Phil
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