The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 202 - AVS Forum
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post #6031 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha! On your finest china too. Probably still better than most English food (zing!!) tongue.gif

Don't leave me hanging though, what did Roger say??

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post #6032 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 10:26 AM
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^ROTFL!


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post #6033 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Well, I suppose there may be an end in sight for my 4311...maybe. Watch the basturds jam 90% of my wishlist on the impossibly expensive 9200 and have me driving everyone crazy...again. smile.gif

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post #6034 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Ha! On your finest china too. Probably still better than most English food (zing!!) tongue.gif

Don't leave me hanging though, what did Roger say??

 

LOL!  No argument with you there!

 

Roger said:

 

"I will say that what Batpig stated is correct, partially because he quotes from a paper I wrote! >>Due to the substream structure of Dolby TrueHD, a single Dolby TrueHD program can be used to deliver a two-, six-, or eight-channel presentation<< etc.

"He's also correct that Zip may be lossless but that's where the similarity ends. Zip cannot be streamed. It has no peak bitrate management, etc."

 

Next time we meet, the beers are on me :)

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post #6035 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 01:29 PM
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Any idea on features, approximate price ranges of the 2 lesser models?

Also when is the normal release time so that we may add a few weeks to the eta.

Thanks

Custer
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post #6036 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quick question here.

I'm thinking of running a second hdmi out to my tv on the porch. It doesn't have to be different from my main source. Another words I think for the most part i'd want it to match what i'm watching in the living room. The porch is my smoking room, and I only have a cheap cable box out there, so sometimes i'm missing a show on cable that's in HD that I don't get on the cheap SD cable box. Not to mention Blu-ray, etc.... I don't really care at this point about using it as a true second zone, with different content.....

My question. Will I lose any audio, (11.2) plugging into the monitor 2 jack, or should I use zone 4, and if so does that lose audio. Seems I read somewhere that if using multiple zones, i'll lose a few channels of audio. Or does the hdmi, send all the audio no matter what.

I'm wanting to run it into another AVR that has hdmi input on the back porch.
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post #6037 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 01:38 PM
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^^
Yup. If you pass audio to a main zone TV, you would lose the audio to your 11.2 setup. Also note that if you use the Zone 4 HDMI instead, although you'll get both audio/video, if watching the same source as the main zone, the 11.2 setup will receive only a stereo signal.

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post #6038 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 05:45 PM
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hi i have a quick question, if i want to manually eq a denon 4520 , what kind of parametric eq does it has? does it has it also for the subs? how many bands?
i have my kit with a multiplexer to take my measurements , that i prefer better but would need a way to play with the parametric eq.
tks
dan
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post #6039 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Not even parametric eq. It has a simple graphic eq. 9 bands I think. Can be applied globally or to pairs of speakers independently, and not available for the subwoofer.

In other words, you should just run Audyssey XT32.

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post #6040 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 06:09 PM
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wow thats sad.. im trying to get something with a good parametric eq.. but dont want to go crazy on the budget..
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post #6041 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 06:41 PM
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^You could get an external PEQ. But like batpig I'm a wonderin  why you'd  forego a nice sophisticated DSPRC system like MultEQXT32?


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post #6042 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 06:51 PM
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well my room is already designed acousticly, so it shouldnt neet to much eq, but i prefer doing it my self lol...i have the gear. had before the 4311 and didnt like what xt 32 did to my old room...at the end i bought a minidsp and run the subwoofers thru it...and it was much better.....
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post #6043 of 8893 Old 10-17-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Look at Pioneer then. Their MCACC is parametric EQ based and allowed much more user EQ customization, you can save multiple user tweaked EQ curves.

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post #6044 of 8893 Old 10-18-2013, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milll36 View Post
well my room is already designed acousticly, so it shouldnt neet to much eq, but i prefer doing it my self lol...i have the gear. had before the 4311 and didnt like what xt 32 did to my old room...at the end i bought a minidsp and run the subwoofers thru it...and it was much better.....

 

Ahh, I see. I believe there are a few AVPs out there with built-in PEQ (Nuforce? Emotiva?).  Another possible option is to step Audyssey up a notch with an Audyssey Pro kit ($550) and a license for your unit ($150), see the Pro kit thread for more info.  You could post there with your specifics, there are several friendly and astute fellows posting there.

 

Pro uses a more accurate, calibrated mic that  improves SQ AND allows considerable custom tweaking of the curves.  The mic measurement files can be saved and different tweaks applied without having to remeasure.  Your favorite curves can then be Denon Network Saved for recall. 

 

You might also start your own thread detailing your situation and what's lacking, specifically eliciting advice, ideas and approaches to getting the most out of your room and gear.  I've found that quite helpful time and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Look at Pioneer then. Their MCACC is parametric EQ based and allowed much more user EQ customization, you can save multiple user tweaked EQ curves.


Yup.  And mill's minidsp may very well still come in handy.  As you know, MCACC has a worse limitation than Audyssey's lack of customization-MCACC's inexplicably hobbled EQ of the LF, the most crucial area. That has driven some sophisticated MCACC users to add gear like miniDSP, AntiMode, Audyssey sms1...or to switch to XT32.   ;) 


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post #6045 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Yup. If you pass audio to a main zone TV, you would lose the audio to your 11.2 setup. Also note that if you use the Zone 4 HDMI instead, although you'll get both audio/video, if watching the same source as the main zone, the 11.2 setup will receive only a stereo signal.

So running hdmi out from zone 4 to a second avr kills my 11.2. Neither avr will output 11.2. And both will only be stereo?????

That's stupid.................I sure hope i'm mis-understanding something here....
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post #6046 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 10:47 AM
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next question. I'm looking to improve my FM reception. What to other use. Would be nice to actually hook up more than one unit to the same antenna. Unless the price is cheap enough to buy 3 different antennas.

I've been using these antennas from biglots. Like 17 bucks Works great most of the time. And their powerless. Except in my home theater. Just to many components causing to much interference. Cant find a sweat spot any where. So seems like I need to put some distance to it. So I thought about running something up inside my attic. Keeping it under the roof. I live in Tampa, fl. Lightning capital of the world......
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post #6047 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 10:51 AM
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Do you have Cable TV? If so, see if they carry local radio stations on cable.

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post #6048 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 10:54 AM
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Hi all,
Just been running some tests on my recently purchased 4520, and thought I would share some findings:-

If anyone is wondering what changes occur when switching between Audyssey and Audyssey Flat for the EQ settings - this is what I measured:-

Below 40Hz 0dB (no change between settings)
40Hz to 100Hz Smooth rise to +0.7dB
100Hz to 900Hz Flat at +0.7dB
900Hz to 1.35kHz Smooth fall to 0dB
1.35kHz to 1.78kHz Steep fall to -2.5dB
1.78kHz to 2.25kHz Flat at -2.5dB
2.25kHz to 2.7kHz Steep rise to 0dB
2.7kHz to 3.10kHz Steep rise to +0.7dB
3.10kHz to 4.25kHz Flat at +0.7dB
4.25kHz to 5.84kHz Smooth fall to 0dB
5.84kHz to 20.0kHz Smooth curve to -9dB

These results appear to show that Audyssey does NOT apply the 'BBC mid-range dip' when set to Flat.
It also appears that Audyssey attempts to maintain equal broadband SPL between settings by slightly increasing output between approx 100Hz - 900Hz & 3.1kHz - 4.25kHz to compensate for the 2.5dB dip centered at 2kHz

I would stress that these are initial tests, and when I have more time I will probably repeat them by measuring the electrical Pre-Amp outputs directly.

Just information for those interested, regards Mike.
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post #6049 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Yup. If you pass audio to a main zone TV, you would lose the audio to your 11.2 setup. Also note that if you use the Zone 4 HDMI instead, although you'll get both audio/video, if watching the same source as the main zone, the 11.2 setup will receive only a stereo signal.

So running hdmi out from zone 4 to a second avr kills my 11.2. Neither avr will output 11.2. And both will only be stereo?????

That's stupid.................I sure hope i'm mis-understanding something here....

You are misunderstanding. Or more accurately JD probably made an incorrect assumption about your setup and thought you were running the zone HDMI to a tv directly. You mentioned that first at the beginning of your post but he probably missed your final note about running it to an avr.

The overall point is that when you feed an HDMI source to two HDMI "sinks", in this case main zone and Zone 4, and both zones are getting the same source, the whole HDMI chain is limited to the capabilities of the least capable sink. So if the Zone 4 HDMI was going to a tv, then the stereo limitation of the tv would also drop main zone down to a stereo input (what JD probably meant).

However is Zone 4 HDMI is connected to an HDMI receiver, then the audio input capabilities of both sinks will be the same and the source will give the thumbs up to sending multichannel audio even if you select the same source in both zones.

You can also of course send different HDMI sources to each zone as well.

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post #6050 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post

Hi all,
Just been running some tests on my recently purchased 4520, and thought I would share some findings:-

If anyone is wondering what changes occur when switching between Audyssey and Audyssey Flat for the EQ settings - this is what I measured:-

Below 40Hz 0dB (no change between settings)
40Hz to 100Hz Smooth rise to +0.7dB
100Hz to 900Hz Flat at +0.7dB
900Hz to 1.35kHz Smooth fall to 0dB
1.35kHz to 1.78kHz Steep fall to -2.5dB
1.78kHz to 2.25kHz Flat at -2.5dB
2.25kHz to 2.7kHz Steep rise to 0dB
2.7kHz to 3.10kHz Steep rise to +0.7dB
3.10kHz to 4.25kHz Flat at +0.7dB
4.25kHz to 5.84kHz Smooth fall to 0dB
5.84kHz to 20.0kHz Smooth curve to -9dB

These results appear to show that Audyssey does NOT apply the 'BBC mid-range dip' when set to Flat.
It also appears that Audyssey attempts to maintain equal broadband SPL between settings by slightly increasing output between approx 100Hz - 900Hz & 3.1kHz - 4.25kHz to compensate for the 2.5dB dip centered at 2kHz

I would stress that these are initial tests, and when I have more time I will probably repeat them by measuring the electrical Pre-Amp outputs directly.

Just information for those interested, regards Mike.

 

No need to double-post.

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post #6051 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 02:53 PM
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So the 4520 has been the king of the hill for Denon 1 year now, any upcoming product that may displace it?
I'm 9 months into mine and it meets all my needs, just curious since I don't follow this thread post by post.


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post #6052 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon doesn't refresh their high end models annually like the lower stuff so don't expect anything until next year.

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post #6053 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 07:59 PM
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There really isn't anything that needs updating in the 4520...

And unlike the older 4311 there were no birth throes.. things were pretty much fine from day 1...

I am still on the first firmware actually, and I find no good reason to update...
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post #6054 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Denon doesn't refresh their high end models annually like the lower stuff so don't expect anything until next year.

What's the hurry? tongue.gif

Unless you're absolutely trying to future-proof yourself with HDMI 2.0 or want the latest multi-zone or networking fripperies, I don't see the value in upgrading a 4520 to whatever comes out around the time of CES 2014. There's little enough reason to upgrade a 4311 from a SQ perspective as things stand.

A next-gen Audyssey MultiEQ might be a reason, or some rejiggering of DSX or DEQ, of course.

Stuart

 

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Oppo 93 and 103

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post #6055 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Denon doesn't refresh their high end models annually like the lower stuff so don't expect anything until next year.

What's the hurry? tongue.gif

Unless you're absolutely trying to future-proof yourself with HDMI 2.0 or want the latest multi-zone or networking fripperies, I don't see the value in upgrading a 4520 to whatever comes out around the time of CES 2014. There's little enough reason to upgrade a 4311 from a SQ perspective as things stand.

A next-gen Audyssey MultiEQ might be a reason, or some rejiggering of DSX or DEQ, of course.

I'd like the ability to tune DSX, as discussed here and the other threads on DSX, seems more people are leaning towards Neo:X or PLIIz.

Definitely I agree, the 4520 is rock solid.
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post #6056 of 8893 Old 10-19-2013, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You are misunderstanding. Or more accurately JD probably made an incorrect assumption about your setup and thought you were running the zone HDMI to a tv directly. You mentioned that first at the beginning of your post but he probably missed your final note about running it to an avr.

The overall point is that when you feed an HDMI source to two HDMI "sinks", in this case main zone and Zone 4, and both zones are getting the same source, the whole HDMI chain is limited to the capabilities of the least capable sink. So if the Zone 4 HDMI was going to a tv, then the stereo limitation of the tv would also drop main zone down to a stereo input (what JD probably meant).

However is Zone 4 HDMI is connected to an HDMI receiver, then the audio input capabilities of both sinks will be the same and the source will give the thumbs up to sending multichannel audio even if you select the same source in both zones.

You can also of course send different HDMI sources to each zone as well.

Thank You, Thank You....

That's why I said that just seemed stupid. I try to run everything, every direction, HDMI.
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post #6057 of 8893 Old 10-20-2013, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Unless you're absolutely trying to future-proof yourself with HDMI 2.0 or want the latest multi-zone or networking fripperies, I don't see the value in upgrading a 4520 to whatever comes out around the time of CES 2014.
IMHO there is nothing about HDMI 2.0 at this time that implies future proofing.

Nothing out that except some displays that are capable of architecture that's scalable to 4Kp60.

As it stands now the 4520CI is perfect for current UDTV usage with 4Kx2K capable sources until something better comes along, and even if 4Kp60 becomes available someday then you would just split the video and audio and carry on. smile.gif

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post #6058 of 8893 Old 10-20-2013, 06:50 AM
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I wish on the front display Denon had kept the dual "in" and "out" display like prior models had.....H20 over the dam at this point.

I put mine on "in" recently, to see what signal its getting from source, since I now process all my sound to Neo:X
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post #6059 of 8893 Old 10-20-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

IMHO there is nothing about HDMI 2.0 at this time that implies future proofing.

Nothing out that except some displays that are capable of architecture that's scalable to 4Kp60.

As it stands now the 4520CI is perfect for current UDTV usage with 4Kx2K capable sources until something better comes along, and even if 4Kp60 becomes available someday then you would just split the video and audio and carry on. smile.gif

Or you can run your one or two extra 4Kp60 sources (LOL) through the Oppo 303 or 403 when the time comes and still keep the Denon you have....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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post #6060 of 8893 Old 10-20-2013, 11:27 AM
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Just curious, what sound mode do you guys prefer on the 4520 when watching sports (particularly the NFL)?

After running through them, Multi Stereo and Neo X seem to be the best sound to my ears.
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