The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 208 - AVS Forum
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post #6211 of 8898 Old 11-16-2013, 07:35 PM
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Just got a refurbished 4520 from A4L. Hooked it up and it just about blew my speakers! Trouble shooting I used one speaker to test each channel. The front left and surround left buzzed and popped. All other channels were fine. I sent in a return and exchange request. Hopefully A4L comes through. I also requested 3 day shipping for the return for my trouble.

Has anyone else had experience with A4L returns?
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post #6212 of 8898 Old 11-16-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Walternate View Post


Has anyone else had experience with A4L returns?

My experience with them was very bad, but it seems to be the exception, based on the many good experiences I see posted here. They were the reason I gave them my business to begin with, but never, never again. In the end, I was out the original shipping charges, much time setting up / wiring and unwiring 2 receivers, time and gas driving to FedEx twice, but they had my $$ for a solid 2 months, and never did get a functioning receiver from them. I'm glad I had a spare receiver so I wasn't completely without music that entire time, but I was lied to. I wish you good luck.

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post #6213 of 8898 Old 11-16-2013, 11:32 PM
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Not really what I wanted to hear but thanks for your good wishes. I have an Onkyo 1009 that the Denon was going to replace. I left it in the Stereo rack and set up the Denon next to it. The swap wasn't too bad, unplug from here plugin to there. So the switch back wasn't too bad either. Started connecting the Denon at 5PM, swapped around some components, tested it, trouble shot it, had it switched back to the Onkyo and watched the new Superman movie, done by 11.

This is the first refurb I have ever purchased, hopefully that wasn't a mistake. However for the price I got it for, with a 5 year extended warranty, I had to give it a shot. If this doesn't work out I'll just get my money back and buy a new 4311. $2500 is a bit much for me to buy a new 4520, but I could get a new 4311 for a bit less than I paid for the 4520 refurb.
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post #6214 of 8898 Old 11-17-2013, 03:52 AM
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Hello Walternate-if you are going to keep your AVR for a while, I would go with the 4311-it has a 3 year Denon warranty. You can purchase one factory new, from "One Call". (autthorized dealer) for 1399, and I believe shipping is included. The 4311 is a very reliable, feature rich, piece of equipment; I have had one, for over a year, and love it.
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post #6215 of 8898 Old 11-17-2013, 04:20 AM
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One should ALWAYS have a network backup, JD. Not having one is foolish.

Never said otherwise Jerry. SOM already suggested the network backup so I didn't see any reason to repeat his advice, rather I simply noted the term of the internal memory backup. wink.gif

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post #6216 of 8898 Old 11-17-2013, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walternate View Post

This is the first refurb I have ever purchased, hopefully that wasn't a mistake. However for the price I got it for, with a 5 year extended warranty, I had to give it a shot. If this doesn't work out I'll just get my money back and buy a new 4311. $2500 is a bit much for me to buy a new 4520, but I could get a new 4311 for a bit less than I paid for the 4520 refurb.


Sometimes folks don't realize that you need not pay anything close to MSRP for a NIB unit from an authorized seller.  While you're still in the refurb's return for refund period, I suggest you call jd @ AVS to get a great discounted price on a NIB unit. 

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post #6217 of 8898 Old 11-17-2013, 09:54 AM
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I have seen the 4311 for that price at that and other authorized dealers. I really like that the 4520 has neo x as well as audyssey dsx. As well as some other features not on the 4311. Although the 4311 is not out of the question.

I'll give JD a call after I hear back from A4L. Thanks.
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post #6218 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:10 AM
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I am so confused as I am looking for some feedback.. Which would be a better choice for both movies and music:

 

Denon 4311 with GREAT speakers

Denon 4520CI with GOOD speakers

 

I am also looking to do multi zones and looking to use airplay. Is the 4520CI worth the extra $1000?

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post #6219 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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There is no real difference in sound quality, only features. And I bet the price difference isn't $1000.

Speakers and room acoustics are ALWAYS more important than the electronics though, so if spending the extra money means you can't afford better speakers it's an easy decision IMO.
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post #6220 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycguy718 View Post
 

I am so confused as I am looking for some feedback.. Which would be a better choice for both movies and music:

 

Denon 4311 with GREAT speakers

Denon 4520CI with GOOD speakers

 

I am also looking to do multi zones and looking to use airplay. Is the 4520CI worth the extra $1000?


Easy-

Option #1!!

 

4311 does zones and airplay, is about $1.3K, still avail NIB from authorized etailer.  Call jd smoothie for advice!  (Contact info in his sig a few posts up)


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post #6221 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post
 


Easy-

Option #1!!

 

4311 does zones and airplay, is about $1.3K, still avail NIB from authorized etailer.  Call jd smoothie for advice!  (Contact info in his sig a few posts up)


OR am I better off getting the X4000 over the 4311?

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post #6222 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe. It's really hard to answer thes massively open ended questions without you providing ANY details about your system, budget or needs.

The 4311 and 4520 are well compared in this thread (several like AustinJerry have owned both) and I have a detailed comparison of X4000 and 4520 at the beginning of the E/X series owners thread. Why don't you do some reading and then come back with some more informered and detailed follow up questions.

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post #6223 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 07:53 AM
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^nycguy, that's another exc option, a lot of value in that one!  It has reportedly very good SQ as it has XT32 yet is under $1K.  IIRC batpig and/or jdsmoothie have compiled lists of features, including some comparisons to the competing Denon models on the X thread and 4520 thread. 

 

(edit: obviously bp was posting at the same time)


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post #6224 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycguy718 View Post
 

I am so confused as I am looking for some feedback.. Which would be a better choice for both movies and music:

 

Denon 4311 with GREAT speakers

Denon 4520CI with GOOD speakers

 

I am also looking to do multi zones and looking to use airplay. Is the 4520CI worth the extra $1000?

 

No brainer: get the best speakers you can possibly afford. Electronics don't make much difference to SQ - speakers do. 

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post #6225 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

No brainer: get the best speakers you can possibly afford. Electronics don't make much difference to SQ - speakers do. 


I agree but I also want to make sure I get the latest and greatest features if I am going to pay anything over 1200 bucks on a receiver.

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post #6226 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 08:44 AM
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latest features = Denon X4000 or Marantz SR7008 (e.g. stereo PCM to zone 2, but 9.2 speakers)
greatest features = Denon AVR4520 or Marantz AV8801 + external amps. (e.g. 11.2 speakers, but only analog to Zone 2)

Or wait until fall 2014 for the next generation of D&M's high-end equipment which most of us assume will combine the two above with the addition of HDMI v2.0.

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post #6227 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nycguy718 View Post


I agree but I also want to make sure I get the latest and greatest features if I am going to pay anything over 1200 bucks on a receiver.

Well, that is why your question is so difficult to answer. There are two aspects to an AVR, sound quality and features. As Keith says, most modern AVR's have good enough sound quality that it is different to differentiate one from another. Features, however, is an entirely different criteria. Most of us would recommend XT32 over XT, for example. As for the other features, only you can decide which ones are "must haves".

HST, given similar AVR features, money invested in better speakers is the better decision.
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post #6228 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycguy718 View Post


I agree but I also want to make sure I get the latest and greatest features if I am going to pay anything over 1200 bucks on a receiver.

Well, that is why your question is so difficult to answer. There are two aspects to an AVR, sound quality and features. As Keith says, most modern AVR's have good enough sound quality that it is different difficult to differentiate one from another. Features, however, is an entirely different criteria. Most of us would recommend XT32 over XT, for example. As for the other features, only you can decide which ones are "must haves".

HST, given similar AVR features, money invested in better speakers is the better decision.

 

Agreed.  Both his options have the one feature that I would not be without: XT32.

 

BTW, IFYP - see above.

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post #6229 of 8898 Old 11-18-2013, 10:45 AM
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BTW, IFYP - see above.

Thanks. iPad autocorrect does some strange things.
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post #6230 of 8898 Old 11-21-2013, 09:11 PM
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Well I went full tard (never go full tard) and bought a McIntosh MC-275MkVI. This is me talking out loud, anyone join in with your thoughts.

Considering letting Audyssey tame the room with this setup, and having this guy run the L and R channels versus the internal amp. I don't know how it will handle, the built in amps of the AVR-4520ci is almost double the power.

Another choice is power it directly off the Oppo BDP-95 , but I lose a lot of benefit of Audyssey SubEQ obviously.

Any recommended clever solutions?

Maybe Speaker B to a switcher box going to the same speakers , but different amp?

I went even further full tard . . . I bought a 2nd MC275. So I developed testing methodology to really see how tube amps compare to the internal amps. I figure this would be a good method for anyone thinking of running a different amp.



This is what I'm going to do, convert some stereo music to mono . . .

Have my computer feed the music to the amps through a 24bit USB DAC to RCA

Setup the AVR-4520ci to direct mode

Install one MC275 on the right channel with one channel only (75W), and one other feed by another amp (or in my case the internal amp)

Move the L/R balance around to isolate which speaker is playing to do a pure A/B comparision.

I can then repeat this test with the MC275 in Mono mode (150W).

Then lastly install the MC275, and compare one speaker on mono (150W) vs. one speaker on single channel (75W) both with MC275s

I figure it will be a fun test to really see what sounds best in my room cool.gif

If I want to get really crazy I can run Audyssey and rerun all the cases.

Stay tuned to the results!

If I don't think it makes a MAJOR difference, I'm selling them and just buying 802D, I wonder if the AVR4520 can drive them properly?
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post #6231 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 07:31 AM
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I'm looking for help in resolving a screen resolution problem between my HTPC (WIN 8.1PRO), the Denon AVR-4520, and my (vintage?) Sony KV-34XBR910.

At this point, I don't know if the problem lies with the 4520, the Sony XBR, or the HTPC.

While other video sources - connected through the 4520 - look fabulous on the XBR, I can't seem to get the right resolution for the HTPC.

In it's current setup, the display extends beyond the bezel of the TV so that icons, menus, windows, taskbars, etc - anything on the periphery of the display - cannot be seen. It's a very frustrating experience.

Furthermore, when trying to change the resolution on the HTPC from 1920 X 1080 to something lower, the only other choice is 1280 x 720. WIN 8.1 PRO shows the display as "DENON-AVRHD" which makes sense since the HDMI cable is connected via the 4520.

The XBR has a 16:9 display at 1080i resolution. As mentioned, my Cable HD-PVR and other HD sources all scale correctly with no "overscan".

Any suggestions on how to fix this problem?

Thanks,
Herb...
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post #6232 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbg View Post

I'm looking for help in resolving a screen resolution problem between my HTPC (WIN 8.1PRO), the Denon AVR-4520, and my (vintage?) Sony KV-34XBR910.

At this point, I don't know if the problem lies with the 4520, the Sony XBR, or the HTPC.

While other video sources - connected through the 4520 - look fabulous on the XBR, I can't seem to get the right resolution for the HTPC.

In it's current setup, the display extends beyond the bezel of the TV so that icons, menus, windows, taskbars, etc - anything on the periphery of the display - cannot be seen. It's a very frustrating experience.

Furthermore, when trying to change the resolution on the HTPC from 1920 X 1080 to something lower, the only other choice is 1280 x 720. WIN 8.1 PRO shows the display as "DENON-AVRHD" which makes sense since the HDMI cable is connected via the 4520.

The XBR has a 16:9 display at 1080i resolution. As mentioned, my Cable HD-PVR and other HD sources all scale correctly with no "overscan".

Any suggestions on how to fix this problem?

Thanks,
Herb...

Further to this ... I should mention that I am using an HDMI cable from the 4520 to connect to a HDMI-to-DVI adapter on the Sony.

The Sony manual states the follow about the DVI connection:

Digital Visual Interface (DVI): Can accommodate a copy-protected digital connection (HDCP*) to other devices (such as digital set-top boxes) that have compatible interfaces.
The DVI-HDTV input terminal is compliant with the EIA-861 standard and is not intended for use with personal computers.


The reference to use with PC's is interesting. Not sure why that would be a problem.
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post #6233 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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100% confident it's the tv. You've got a triple whammy of HDMI>DVI adapter, old pre HDMI display, and a CRT with non 1080p native resolution.

Have you tried the obvious first troubleshooting step of connecting PC directly to tv and taking the receiver out of the loop?

You may just end up needing to use some PC utility that let's you resize the display geometry. Then you can futz with it manually until you get proper pixel mapping.

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post #6234 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

100% confident it's the tv. You've got a triple whammy of HDMI>DVI adapter, old pre HDMI display, and a CRT with non 1080p native resolution.

Have you tried the obvious first troubleshooting step of connecting PC directly to tv and taking the receiver out of the loop?

You may just end up needing to use some PC utility that let's you resize the display geometry. Then you can futz with it manually until you get proper pixel mapping.

Yeah, I know this could be a problem but I'm hesitant to ditch a perfectly excellent TV right now for a modern replacement.

Regardless, the next step is to try the connection from the HTPC to the DVI connection on the TV (bypassing the 4520).

Alternatively, if I abandon the HDMI-to-DVI connection from the 4520 and use Component Video connection instead from the 4520 to the XBR, would that introduce new problems with the rest of my video sources?
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post #6235 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbg View Post

I'm looking for help in resolving a screen resolution problem between my HTPC (WIN 8.1PRO), the Denon AVR-4520, and my (vintage?) Sony KV-34XBR910.

At this point, I don't know if the problem lies with the 4520, the Sony XBR, or the HTPC.

While other video sources - connected through the 4520 - look fabulous on the XBR, I can't seem to get the right resolution for the HTPC.

In it's current setup, the display extends beyond the bezel of the TV so that icons, menus, windows, taskbars, etc - anything on the periphery of the display - cannot be seen. It's a very frustrating experience.

Furthermore, when trying to change the resolution on the HTPC from 1920 X 1080 to something lower, the only other choice is 1280 x 720. WIN 8.1 PRO shows the display as "DENON-AVRHD" which makes sense since the HDMI cable is connected via the 4520.

The XBR has a 16:9 display at 1080i resolution. As mentioned, my Cable HD-PVR and other HD sources all scale correctly with no "overscan".

Any suggestions on how to fix this problem?

Thanks,
Herb...

Sounds like the PC is over scanning. If you have an AMD GPU, you can under scan this in the Catalyst Control Software. If you have use an Intel CPU with built in GPU,you can use the Intel HD (Graphics) software to do the same. If you use NVidea, I don't know that software but you can do the same. Regardless, best answered in the HTPC threads. This is a PC issue.
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post #6236 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 09:03 AM
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Sounds like the PC is over scanning. If you have an AMD GPU, you can under scan this in the Catalyst Control Software. If you have use an Intel CPU with built in GPU,you can use the Intel HD (Graphics) software to do the same. If you use NVidea, I don't know that software but you can do the same. Regardless, best answered in the HTPC threads. This is a PC issue.

Already tried that but I am limited to the resolution choices as detailed above due to the connection to the Denon 4520. Hence, my question on this thread.
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post #6237 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 09:17 AM
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I'd say look again, under CCC there is an actual page that allows you to accurately over or under scan using a sliding scale. It should not matter one bit if you are going through the 4520. I have had a 4311 and this is easy to correct. The 4520 has no variable overscan or under-scan capacity.
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post #6238 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I'd say look again, under CCC there is an actual page that allows you to accurately over or under scan using a sliding scale. It should not matter one bit if you are going through the 4520. I have had a 4311 and this is easy to correct. The 4520 has no variable overscan or under-scan capacity.

OK ... thanks ... I will dig a bit deeper. Took your advice and also posted this on the CRT Display and HTPC forums.

Cheers,
Herb...
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post #6239 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbg View Post

Yeah, I know this could be a problem but I'm hesitant to ditch a perfectly excellent TV right now for a modern replacement.

Regardless, the next step is to try the connection from the HTPC to the DVI connection on the TV (bypassing the 4520).

Sure, don't want you to ditch the TV. Just trying to get to the root issue, it's pretty typical for an older pre-HDMI display to not "play nice" with an HDMI chain. I think either a direct video connection from PC to TV, or figuring out a way to adjust underscan to make the screen fit like we suggested above, is the way to go.

Quote:
Alternatively, if I abandon the HDMI-to-DVI connection from the 4520 and use Component Video connection instead from the 4520 to the XBR, would that introduce new problems with the rest of my video sources?

Not a good solution unless all of your sources have analog video options as well. No receiver will "downconvert" HDMI inputs to analog (component) video output. You can do it with an external converter box (e.g. HDFury) between the receiver and display.

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post #6240 of 8898 Old 11-22-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Sure, don't want you to ditch the TV. Just trying to get to the root issue, it's pretty typical for an older pre-HDMI display to not "play nice" with an HDMI chain. I think either a direct video connection from PC to TV, or figuring out a way to adjust underscan to make the screen fit like we suggested above, is the way to go.
Not a good solution unless all of your sources have analog video options as well. No receiver will "downconvert" HDMI inputs to analog (component) video output. You can do it with an external converter box (e.g. HDFury) between the receiver and display.

Very good tip on the HD-Fury ... perhaps that's the problem. I will contact them directly.

Thanks,
Herb...
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