The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 259 - AVS Forum
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post #7741 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Try AVR Remote instead of the official Denon app.

Thank you. I'll check that out.
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post #7742 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Is there any way to have the Denon pickup my Flacs that are on my NAS?

Lots of possibilities. Is it a Synology? If so, use DS audio, if it's a different brand you can try PLEX Media server or alternatives.

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post #7743 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

If your NAS can run a DLNA server.
I am in the process of adding DLNA to my UnRaid server now. :T
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post #7744 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 12:31 PM
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I have been using Samba for all my streaming... I hope that DLNA works out.

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post #7745 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 12:46 PM
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Thank you Kisakuku, the remote app blows away the Denon remote, for android, Now if Denon would only allow each input to remember its speaker settings per input.Quick select works, but geez, its 2014 last time I looked
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post #7746 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeldef View Post

Thank you Kisakuku, the remote app blows away the Denon remote, for android, Now if Denon would only allow each input to remember its speaker settings per input.Quick select works, but geez, its 2014 last time I looked

It's 2014, 1Gbit networking is available since 2009, however you don't see 1Gbit switch in the 4520, but a 100Mbit switch, which was "actual" like 15 years ago... I just hope Apple or Google or another company with lots of resources to buy D&M and finally bring them to the 21st century.
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post #7747 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeldef View Post

Thank you Kisakuku, the remote app blows away the Denon remote, for android, Now if Denon would only allow each input to remember its speaker settings per input.Quick select works, but geez, its 2014 last time I looked

Wait a minute. One can have different speaker setting per input? It doesn't remember them? I know my 6 year old Onkyo remembers the sound mode for each input. If the 4520 doesn't remember the speaker settings then it sounds like your unit may be broken. If they are all like that, then what did I just purchase if I have to re-do the speakers every time I turn it on? I'm confused.
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post #7748 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:12 PM
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No need to panic. I am sure the Denon works as you expect it to. On a Denon, you can tailor certain settings to be input-specific. These settings are saved in memory locations called Quick-Select, and there are four unique QS memories on the 4520. I believe the original poster was commenting on the behavior of the web app.
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post #7749 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wysiwygbg View Post

It's 2014, 1Gbit networking is available since 2009, however you don't see 1Gbit switch in the 4520, but a 100Mbit switch, which was "actual" like 15 years ago... I just hope Apple or Google or another company with lots of resources to buy D&M and finally bring them to the 21st century.

I've been wondering about this. My question is does one actually need 1GB for streaming and such in this context? I mean what about a Logitech Squeezebox Touch or a Roku 3? Do they have a 100Mbit switch or a 1GB? I seem to stream just fine with both those. I use a 2.4GB wireless router for my network and I can get very fast speeds (cable internet). I'm thinking this is more heavily relying on the pipe from the ISP over the switch that happens to be on said gear or am I lost in the forest here?
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post #7750 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No need to panic. I am sure the Denon works as you expect it to. On a Denon, you can tailor certain settings to be input-specific. These settings are saved in memory locations called Quick-Select, and there are four unique QS memories on the 4520. I believe the original poster was commenting on the behavior of the web app.

Ah, ok I see....I think. LOL, I also think I need to be brought into 2014 myself often.smile.gif The Denon has a plug, so I'm pretty sure it's ahead of me.biggrin.gif It's an Android app, if there is a web app, I'm almost sure it is better. Yes, that Denon Android app is awful as far as I can see. I'm wondering though if I was seeing the whole thing or just a restricted demo mode, now that I think of it? I don't remember having WiFi turned on on my Nexus at the time.
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post #7751 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No need to panic. I am sure the Denon works as you expect it to. On a Denon, you can tailor certain settings to be input-specific. These settings are saved in memory locations called Quick-Select, and there are four unique QS memories on the 4520. I believe the original poster was commenting on the behavior of the web app.

Frankly I'm not sure what the OP was commenting on when he said "speaker settings". Did he mean speaker config? Crossovers? Speaker trims (levels)? Surround modes?

Many things (like surround modes and Audyssey settings) are input specific without even resorting to Quick Selects.

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post #7752 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeldef View Post

Thank you Kisakuku, the remote app blows away the Denon remote, for android, Now if Denon would only allow each input to remember its speaker settings per input.Quick select works, but geez, its 2014 last time I looked
It doesn't want to connect for me, whereas the Denon one will. frown.gif

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post #7753 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmusic View Post

I use a 2.4GB wireless router for my network and I can get very fast speeds (cable internet).

Your WiFi router operates on the 2.4 GHz frequency band. You definitely don't get 2.4 Gbit throughput with it.
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post #7754 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Frankly I'm not sure what the OP was commenting on when he said "speaker settings". Did he mean speaker config? Crossovers? Speaker trims (levels)? Surround modes?

Many things (like surround modes and Audyssey settings) are input specific without even resorting to Quick Selects.

True. Perhaps the OP will elaborate on his comment.
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post #7755 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Your WiFi router operates on the 2.4 GHz frequency band. You definitely don't get 2.4 Gbit throughput with it.

I buy that. It's probably 10/100 like everything else.
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post #7756 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Your WiFi router operates on the 2.4 GHz frequency band. You definitely don't get 2.4 Gbit throughput with it.

Frequency and speed are entirely different things.
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post #7757 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Frequency and speed are entirely different things.

But have you tried to distinguish one from the other in an ABX?
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post #7758 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

But have you tried to distinguish one from the other in an ABX?

A router speed is measured in bits-per-second, e.g. 100mbs, 1 Gbs, etc. The frequency at which a router signal is broadcast is measured in Hertz, e,g 2.4GHz. Speed and frequency are not the same thing

Now, what is your question again?
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post #7759 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

A router speed is measured in bits-per-second, e.g. 100mbs, 1 Gbs, etc. The frequency at which a router signal is broadcast is measured in Hertz, e,g 2.4GHz. Speed and frequency are not the same thing

Now, what is your question again?


Quote:
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But have you tried to distinguish one from the other in an ABX?
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post #7760 of 10154 Old 04-21-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Jerry, I think you missed that in the original post the OP referred to his router as "2.4GB". Kisakuku was correcting the original and I think now he's messing with you for correcting the guy who was doing the correcting originally
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post #7761 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 06:43 AM
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Sorry for the confusion, since the 4520 replaced a 5803, I have been working to keep from having to adjust anything from cable inputs, Oppo flac music, to network music, mainly in the sub settings, as each of these inputs varry quite a bit, The quick selects work, but, if you make an adjustment to sub level on a cable input, it remains there when going to say a flac file on another input from the Oppo, until you readjust sub setting or hit the QS, Onkyo and Integra do remember each inputs settings, Maybe im missing something hopefully, to remedy this, What do you guys do for a work around ? As cable has to be decreased in sub level, but music needs at least 4 to 6 jumps in sub level
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post #7762 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 07:07 AM
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While spending much of the day converting a spare hdd.to fat 32, then adding all flac files to it, make no mistake, the 4520 does not have the navigation power of the Oppo, through usb, it is slower and hangs at times, while playing flawlessly through the Oppo, Does anyone know, the path of DACS through the Denons usb, compared from inputting these same files through the Oppo via HDMI within the 4520,? should they sound the same ? All settings are the same for both inputs, Audyssey, levels etc, but it seems like through the usb it is biased more sound to the rears
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post #7763 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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USB and HDMI are both digital paths so there should be no difference in sound quality, all things being equal. It is almost certainly another setting that is different between the two inputs.

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post #7764 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 10:56 AM
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I have decided to bring this to public here in the 4520 forum:
Thank you Arringo for PMing me unsolicited and getting me so pissed off about purchasing a 4520 that now I feel like dumping it off at Goodwill the minute it arrives. I really don’t know what to do at this point. I want to know the truth and everybody should.
I’m not a fan of Denon from the start, but after 6 months of daily research (no, I do not have an engineering degree) and the fact that the only units available for demo anyplace around me were a Pioneer SC-79, Marantz 7007 (I wanted to look at a 7008) and the 4520. I did not like the Pioneer and while I thought the Marantz sounded great, I could not justify an extra $600 bringing it par with the 4520 for $1.20 worth of extra electronic components in a Chinese built unit. At least the 4520 had the merit of being assembled in Japan where QC is far better. When I demoed the 4520 (in pure mode as I always do), at first it sounded very thin, but when I juiced to a certain level (loud enough to break my lease) it was much better. I was also using the wrong speakers, but it was the best they had. I’ll be using Paradigm Studio 100s v5 which I understand sound pretty good with the 4520 although I have not heard myself. I’ve also heard that Martin Logan Electrostats sound very good with the 4520 as well. (FYI: both Paradigm and ML are the same company).
As I’ve stated several times I am 90% music and 10% HT. The problem is also my room which is horrid and untreatable contributing to the fact that when I do watch the very occasional movie I get no dialog and I’m not good at reading lips. Part of the problem is the room and Audyssey XT on my Onkyo is not enough of a help. No REQ is perfect or all encompassing, but it can be a start at least. Plus, in my situation it’s all I have. In reading up about REQ I just found YAPO to be a bit under XT32. That is not necessarily bad, but it is also a different approach and I felt I would be spending my whole time tweaking and adjusting on every little album or what have you when I would rather just listen. I hope Yamaha further refines their REQ someday though because I think they make great top shelf AVRs as well.
In my view all AVRs have major flaws. Ones built in China are most notorious.
I had to save up for 12 months for this thing because I have grown tired of mid-line AVRs and my Onkyo is having some issues.
So right now I’m not sure what to do. I am feeling intense buyer’s remorse right now.
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post #7765 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm so confused. I don't even understand what you are pissed off about.
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post #7766 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 11:11 AM
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all I have to say is huh?
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post #7767 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm so confused. I don't even understand what you are pissed off about.

This:
aringgo
Yesterday at 5:14 pm
The AVR4520 has serious flaws as an audio equipment that vendors (in the forum) do not want you to know;
1. The power bypas capacitances of the its DACs are way below that is required. Result is that sounds from digital sources will invariably be grainy. Increasing the capacitances to the level recommended by Texas Instruments improves the results DRAMATICALLY. That is if the AVR4520 is used as a pre-pro only.
2. The analog signal amplification chain of the AVR are never buffered. Analog signals go straight to the volume control chip without buffering or impedance matching. All signals coming out of the volume control chip also go straight out to the pre-out for extenal amps or its internal amps.
3. The internal amps of the AVR4520 use UNbuffered, single-sided voltage amplification section (VAS). Also because of this unsophisticated circuit, the AVR4520 uses transistiors that are known to be "noisy". They had to because the VAS, being single-sided, needd transistors that can handle the full voltages used. Up to now I am not aware of any "audio" VAS-duty transistors that work at those voltages. Good ones can be used at those voltages only in buffered, cascoded, and/or double-sided VAS circuits so each transistor work only with half the voltages, at the most.

The AVR4520 is not the kind that uses the more sophiticated "audio circuits" that buffers/fortifies the signals along the signal amplification chain to ensure effortless, clean, and undamaged signal.
Except for some parts that are good for"advertising" the AVR4520 uses the cheapest components parts - from the boards, interconnects, capacitors, and op-amps.

These flaws are the norm for the CHEAP kinds of receivers, not for the kind of receivers priced around $2-3k.
The internal electronics (and, subjectively, sound) of the AVR4520 is of the kind that is generally described or characterised as CHEAP and FUNCTIONAL - in short, utilitarian - the same kind as that of a pocket AM radio.

--
It is not hopeless, though, if you are capable of DIY fixes.
The AVR4520 can be salvaged into a good pre-pro if 1) the DACs and ADC circuits are brought up to the level recommended by the chip makers, and 2) buffer the analog signals coming into and going out of the volume control circuitry, and optionally 3) replace the cheap capacitors throughout the audio signal chain - then you have a good pre-pro.
I would say, however, that the internal amps of the AVR4520 are hopeless. The boards of the amps are of the lowest quality that they wont survive the necessary modifications to the I/P, VAS, and O/P stages.
--
You should (if you haven't yet) ask the forum members' honest opinion about the AVR4520's suitablity for MUSIC- not HT.
HT does not really need the SQ from "music or audio-grade" electronics.

Regards,
aringgo

luvmusic
Yesterday at 6:53 pm


Out of curiosity, what product would you suggest?

aringgo
Yesterday at 8:58 pm
I am sad that my message did not reach you in time.

--

Because the technical documentation of these electronic products are not readily available until their "end-of-marketing-life" I cannot recommend anything except:

1. to suggest to you to do more research so you be more equipped to "read-between-the-lines" of what people in the forums are saying. Vendors with vested interests populate these forums - so be careful. If the vendor says his unit sounds perfect in his HT, but admits that he is not really into music ...

and,

2. Based on technical documentations of older products (of similar class) that I had the opportunity to study, I would describe some brands as follows:

Yamaha:
You will get what you pay for - not a rip-off like the AVR4520. Cheap Yamaha units also have cheap electronics inside. Premium models also have "premium circuits" that would bet as good as the best in their price range. Yamahas in the price range of the AVR4520 would be infinitely better than the AVR4520.

Marantz and Denon:
They use inconsistent "electronic designs" so the SQ would also be inconsistent.

Marantz:
Historically, the Marantz brand was true to it reputation - they used sophisticated "music-grade electionics". They even resorted to "borrowing" a HarmanKardon design in order to deliver the good SQ at a good price in one model.
The internal electronics of their recent models (circa 2007-present) show a southwards trend - they are now using "utilitarian' circuits instead of the more sophisticated ones. Their equivalent to the AVR4520 uses the same utilitarian design adding only their much-touted HDAM buffers while also claiming better capacitors. The HDAM serves a positive purpose but I doubt that it would improve the sound from the utilitarian base design enough to justify the expense.

Denon:
Always cheaper elctronics than Marantz regardless of model.

Harman Kardon:
Always decent electronics from low-end to high-end. If fact what I found from my research is that they used the same GOOD audio-grade design in most of their products. They simply put in different parts for different power handling capabilities and for pricier models HK usually adds an extra circuit in the output stage to better handle difficult speakers.
Cons: No Audyssey, aesthetics are not mainstream.
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post #7768 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 11:14 AM
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Ok, that just sounded weird and confusing.



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post #7769 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 11:19 AM
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I can't believe you would let yourself be hoodwinked by such drivel. Get a grip.
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post #7770 of 10154 Old 04-22-2014, 11:20 AM
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Ah, I thought the name looked familiar. It's that guy.
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