The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 268 - AVS Forum
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post #8011 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by waltiesantos View Post

I bought an Onkyo NR 5010 receiver when it came out and was very happy with it. Then, of a sudden, I started to hear a buzzing sound in my central channel. I called a techncian in my home and the receiver was sentenced guilty. I sent it for servicing and since it was inside the guarantee term had nothing to pay. What a relief!  One week ago I was watching a picture with my projector and the image and sound dropped out. I did everything I  could to restore them. Resetted it thrice. I tried my tv set, also connected to the receiver, with the same result: no trace of image or sound. I keep the receiver in a ventilated place and besides that I placed a cooler on top of it. The problem is related to the HDMI board, Don't know yet to what extension the issue goes. I did two things: returned the receiver to servicing and ordered an 4520 Denon. When the Onkyo returns I will sell it. My set up is 11.1 and I got, at first, the 4810 Denon model,  I really loved. By problems with handshaking with my projector I had to dispose of it. I'm really sure, however, the 4520 is the best choice and I should have chosen it from the begining. Glad to share this thread with you from now on.
Welcome! Sorry for the past troubles, the future is bright! (Or flat if you prefer)

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post #8012 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanGeek View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted .  AustinJerry View Post

I noticed this behavior almost immediately after purchasing the 4520, especially for music sources when I would prefer not having the rear surrounds turned on. For my previous unit, a 4311, the remote database had a command that would toggle the rear surrounds off and on with a simple button. Unfortunately, the 4520 will not recognize the command, and I know of no way to turn off the rear surrounds other than going into the Menu, selecting Speaker Configuration, and setting rear surrounds to None. Of course, this is a bit cumbersome.

Whew! Thank you. I thought I was going crazy and had just made a wrong setting selection. It is really strange, but I guess Denon didn't want to see the surround backs going to waste when not in use. I put a call into their tech support so at least they are aware of the problem.

DTS automatically engages the rear surrounds if they are present . Try it with TrueHD and see the difference. 

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post #8013 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

DTS automatically engages the rear surrounds if they are present . Try it with TrueHD and see the difference. 

The issue in my case, Keith, is that there is no easy way to turn off the rear surrounds for music content. On previous Denon's, the rear surrounds could be easily toggled off using the remote. For some unknown reason, Denon decided to remove this option on the 4520.
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post #8014 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

DTS automatically engages  e rear surrounds if they are present . Try it with TrueHD and see the differen . 

The issue in my case, Keith, is that there is no easy way to turn off the rear surrounds for music content. On previous Denon's, the rear surrounds could be easily toggled off using the remote. For some unknown reason, Denon decided to remove this option on the 4520.

Sure. I was just trying to comment on why it happened, which is not a Denon issue as the OP seemed to believe. I agree it would be better to have an easy means of disabling it when required. 

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post #8015 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The issue in my case, Keith, is that there is no easy way to turn off the rear surrounds for music content. On previous Denon's, the rear surrounds could be easily toggled off using the remote. For some unknown reason, Denon decided to remove this option on the 4520.

I believe the option still exists. It's just not in the menu or the new remote. There's a remote code for it somewhere in this thread.

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post #8016 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarius View Post


I believe the option still exists. It's just not in the menu or the new remote. There's a remote code for it somewhere in this thread.

 

I have a 4311 remote control that has a button to toggle the rear surrounds.  It does not work with the 4520, which leads me to believe that toggling the rear surrounds off and on is not an option for the 4520.  Please find the post and prove me wrong.  I would be indebted. 

 

Batpig, master of Denon remote codes, care to weigh in on this discussion?

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post #8017 of 9147 Old 05-02-2014, 08:15 PM
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Recently my 4520 stopped working the dd light flashes on and off and the speakers have an audible low noise. Like a stud shuddering beep. I tried resetting it a couple times no luck. Any suggestions or similar issues?
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post #8018 of 9147 Old 05-03-2014, 04:23 AM
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^^
Is this from a single source or all sources? Have you tried reseating all your cables?

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post #8019 of 9147 Old 05-03-2014, 08:38 PM
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Is there a way to not have my remote light up every 15-30 seconds? My wife just figured it out, movement...Damn Dual Seaton Submersives lol! All through Cloverfield it kept lighting up...biggrin.gif
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post #8020 of 9147 Old 05-03-2014, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Is there a way to not have my remote light up every 15-30 seconds? My wife just figured it out, movement...Damn Dual Seaton Submersives lol! All through Cloverfield it kept lighting up...biggrin.gif

 

Of course.

 

- On the remote, press and hold the "RC Setup" button until "Setup" is displayed in the window.

- Using the Up-Down arrow keys, press the Down key until "Light" is displayed in the window.

- Press the Enter key.

- Press the Up key to toggle between "Off" and "On".

- Press the Enter key to complete the process.

 

The automatic backlight function is now off!

 

Please deposit the consultant's fee in my PayPal account...  ;)

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post #8021 of 9147 Old 05-03-2014, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Of course.

- On the remote, press and hold the "RC Setup" button until "Setup" is displayed in the window.
- Using the Up-Down arrow keys, press the Down key until "Light" is displayed in the window.
- Press the Enter key.
- Press the Up key to toggle between "Off" and "On".
- Press the Enter key to complete the process.

The automatic backlight function is now off!

Please deposit the consultant's fee in my PayPal account...  wink.gif

Funny thing is the Submersive's infrasonic whatever you call it had the remote going on over and over during Cloverfield. I'll get that consultant fee right over tongue.gif
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post #8022 of 9147 Old 05-04-2014, 06:54 PM
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Okay, I spoke too soon. ARC is not working from Sharp SmartCentral. frown.giffrown.gif

I can't find the option in either the Denon of Sharp menu's either. Sharp can set it to Auto or Off (left on Auto). Denon doesn't seem to have any mention of it. I thought the TV audio button would have done it, but no love. Any thoughts?

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post #8023 of 9147 Old 05-04-2014, 07:40 PM
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I just saw this... http://djworx.com/industry-inmusic-b.../#.U2b42fldX_A . I had thought that they were still owned by D&M Holdings.

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post #8024 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 

 

Of course.

 

- On the remote, press and hold the "RC Setup" button until "Setup" is displayed in the window.

- Using the Up-Down arrow keys, press the Down key until "Light" is displayed in the window.

- Press the Enter key.

- Press the Up key to toggle between "Off" and "On".

- Press the Enter key to complete the process.

 

The automatic backlight function is now off!

 

Please deposit the consultant's fee in my PayPal account...  ;)

It's worse than that. Lights up just walking past it. I was concerned about turning it off and not being able to read the display but soon realized I couldn't read it with the light on it's so cheap and small.

This is what you get with a flagship receiver? Some might say most people use other ways of controlling the 4520 but I don't think that is the majority.


See My Setup Here

 

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post #8025 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

It's worse than that. Lights up just walking past it. I was concerned about turning it off and not being able to read the display but soon realized I couldn't read it with the light on it's so cheap and small.
This is what you get with a flagship receiver? Some might say most people use other ways of controlling the 4520 but I don't think that is the majority.
I have no problem reading the display on mine, I have mine in dim mode and it never goes on or off. I never knew it could do motion for turning it on or off.

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post #8026 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 12:24 PM
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does anyone know about the gain structure on the 4520? Yesterday I was testing a high quality drum and percussion track on Stereo listening preset and I had it +10 before it was even loud. My buddies X1000 I had tested out for him was good at like -10 to 0.

Also I have JTR Triple8 LCR speakers. 98db sensitivity and 4ohm speakers capable of taking like 1000 watts I believe. Anyway should I have the impedance setting on 4 ohm or 8ohm? I know it may seem obvious but I read that some leave theirs on 8ohm anyway.

Also to be 100% honest I am not sure if I notice a single difference from my 3313ci as far as SQ or even from Multi EQ XT up to Multi EQ XT32. And to be absolute honest I felt my Center channel sounded the best on my Buddies X1000. Obviously the menu's are nicer though. But it can be perception as well. I know the mind can play weird tricks with audio and perceived SQ. I have been having difficulties with REW and my Mac and perhaps my mind sees these very unusual terrible FR responses and maybe that taints my view. Probably the case as amplification is amplification. A side note is all my gear has measured very well exactly where it is. Also the negative comments about the 4520 could be lingering in my mind. Anyway it is surely a nice unit and once I can get past my measuring frustrations I am sure I will settle into once again being satisfied with my system. I don't feel I am skilled enough to tell if my wacky FR response is what I am hearing or if it is just a weird anomaly. I did feel upper bass was missing though at times but I have not been able to do my usual EQ and house curve settings.
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post #8027 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 12:35 PM
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Oppo 103D/105D now support 4k/60fps video
For those of you Oppo 103D and 105D owners (not the older 103/105 as they use the Marvell chip vice Silicon Image), Oppo just added a beta firmware update to their website to allow the 103D and 105D to upscale 1080p to 4k/60fps video with the official firmware update likely available by the end of May. For those of you considering Oppo, the newer "D" versions which include the Darby Vision technology are now also the better buy (only $100 more).

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If you are talking about MV set to +10, that is extremely loud (or should be). I assume you have run Audyssey. Have you double-checked the level of the speaker test tones, which should measure 75dB at the MLP? I know you are having REW issues right now, but do you have an SPL meter to verify that your speaker trims are in line? With the ultra-sensitive JTR's, I can't imagine playing anything at +10!

BTW, what negative comments about the 4520 are lingering in your head?
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post #8029 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Oppo 103D/105D now support 4k/60fps video
For those of you Oppo 103D and 105D owners (not the older 103/105 as they use the Marvell chip vice Silicon Image), Oppo just added a beta firmware update to their website to allow the 103D and 105D to pass 4k/60fps video with the official firmware update likely available by the end of May. For those of you considering Oppo, the newer "D" versions which include the Darby Vision technology are now also the better buy (only $100 more) to allow for 4k/60fps support (not full HDMI 2.0, rather just the 4k/60fps).

OK, that is cool, but where are we going to find 4K/60fps video content? Does the Oppo also support the codecs required for 4K streaming from Netflix? And my understanding is that HDMI 2.0 is a requirement for 4K/60fps. The Oppo doesn't have HDMI 2.0?

And where does the 4520 fit in with this announcement? The 4520 will pass 4K/30fps, but will it support 60fps?

confused.gif
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post #8030 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

If you are talking about MV set to +10, that is extremely loud (or should be). I assume you have run Audyssey. Have you double-checked the level of the speaker test tones, which should measure 75dB at the MLP? I know you are having REW issues right now, but do you have an SPL meter to verify that your speaker trims are in line? With the ultra-sensitive JTR's, I can't imagine playing anything at +10!

BTW, what negative comments about the 4520 are lingering in your head?

No serious negativism Jerry. Just remember that few select have said the 4520 lacks this and that and sounded anemic. I don't think it does but I was trying to make a point that the mind can be very persuasive and biased. Especially on a subject like Sound Quality that is so subjective.

Anyway I will get my RS SPL meter out tonight but I have been in the test tone menu and my ears tell me that Audyssey has set the levels right. MY LCR are all set to -8 I beleive it is. Or very close to that. I am just trying to figure if my REW issues could possibly be AVR related. Playing at +10 in Stereo listening preset which plays louder than the Dolby or DTS music presets is or should be very loud! I even crept to +17 on stereo and it was loud but not very loud. Movie demoes were very loud at -15 though. So perhaps its back to my Mac mini and some settings as I played the music through Itunes

BTW I have my friends MacBook Pro to take home tonight and give it a run with REW. I am suspecting it will work fine as the other Mac guys are not having issues. Do you know if JPA comes around anymore?

Also this was posted in JTR speaker thread for REW using a 3.5mm jack and analog RCA's. Is this correct?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/19260#post_24683780
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post #8031 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

OK, that is cool, but where are we going to find 4K/60fps video content? Does the Oppo also support the codecs required for 4K streaming from Netflix? And my understanding is that HDMI 2.0 is a requirement for 4K/60fps. The Oppo doesn't have HDMI 2.0?

And where does the 4520 fit in with this announcement? The 4520 will pass 4K/30fps, but will it support 60fps?




No content available yet, but with the use of an updated 103D or 105D, when it does become available, you can upscale 1080p to 4k/60fps video to the display and the audio to the 4520CI (just as HDMI 1.3 AVR owners did when they didn't want to update to an HDMI 1.4 AVR to pass 3D video). The Oppo 103D/105D are HDMI 1.4 and not HDCP 2.2 compliant.

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post #8032 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 02:16 PM
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Well, I don't know about anyone else,but I just set up my new 4520 this last weekend and all I can say is "what a difference"!!!!
The 4520 replaced my Onkyo TX-705 and I found there were more problems with my Onkyo than I knew.

The 4520 was very easy to set up and while I just hooked everything up myself because this is not my first rodeo, I did run the set up afterwards. I did see how dead easy it would be for someone who never touched an AVR before. I liked how it had you test each hook up as you go, that's interesting. In fact, I think the thing read my mind because I wanted pass-thru ability without having to turn on the AVR. I just hooked up the TV and my Roku 3 in the appropriate jacks and that's all I had to do. It instantly set it up exactly as I wanted. No extra steps, no voodoo, prayers, sacrifices, nothing. I did have one hiccup a moment later where it kept dropping the signal every few seconds and the sound cut out just as frequently even though I had ARC off and everything correct. (I just have a non-smart TV with the old HDMI 1.2 or whatever and I"m not concerned with 4K etc.) Finally I figured out that it was a handshake issue due to mis-matched cables. I had a high-speed HDMI cable going from the Roku to the AVR and a regular HDMI cable going from the AVR to the TV. Apparently they don't get along. I switched out the regular HDMI cable for a high-speed and problem fixed and all works perfect.
The other thing was hooking it into the network was nothing more than connecting the cable. Within one minute it found the network and synced right up, ready to go. Then it announced that an update was available. Turns out a large update to the tune of 45 minutes...oh, alright Mr AVR go ahead do your thing, I'll wait. It's important anyway.

I take image enhancement claims of AVRs with a grain of salt, the 4520 proved me to be overly sceptical. It did actually improve imaging. Not dramatically, which I would have hated anyway, but just enough to make a pleasant difference. Image is a little sharper and seems more stable.

Sound-wise, the 4520 is much better than I expected. I run very efficient speakers and the 4520 seems to like that. Before I used to have to watch movies or what have you with almost no dialog with my Onkyo for some reason. It was there, but in the background someplace. The 4520 gives me dialog and everything. It also revealed to me that in addition to the other small problems I was having with my Onkyo, I have a bigger one. It appears something is wrong with the prepro or something because for a while I have been wondering why I had to put my ear against my surround speakers to hear anything. I turned on the 4520 and now need to dial back the surround speakers!

Another big surprise to me was when I put a couple of random records on the turntable. I'm using the same setup as with my Onkyo (Denon DP47f running an Ortofon 2M Bronze through a Phonomena 2 preamp. Records sounded good with the Onkyo and that set up. However, when I engaged that with the 4520 I was blown away. There was a notable difference without listening for it. There is more depth and detail somehow and the fact that it was in my face and not subtle is amazing.

I do find it interesting that my Onkyo sounded best with Auyssey off running in pure or direct mode whereas the Denon sounds better with Audyssey engaged.

I had some doubts about the Audyssey XT32 doing anything to my awful room, but I think it did do something, maybe subtle, but something. I think amp design has much to do with this as well. I popped the hood on my Onkyo (nothing to lose) and took a look comparing it to the 4520. Onkyo: One amp doing the work of seven. 4520: 9 separate amps. Onkyo: Amp located in back of the case and furthest away from heat sinks located up front. 4520: Amps all facing and located right next to heat sinks. Onkyo: One board for DAC chips, HDMI ports and functions, etc. 4520: DAC chips in separate daughter board away from amps. Separate HDMI board.
Onkyo: Bottom of unit has one tiny intake fan. 4520: Bottom of unit has two larger intake fans.
The Denon doesn't seem to get as hot as the Onkyo and it is in the same spot once occupied by my Onkyo. I thought I was going to need to put my cooling unit on top, but so far it appears not to need it.

Some cons and almost cons: You have to have the TV on for streaming music and internet radio and such. Not quite a con though, more of a trade-off. I'm one of those who don't want to turn the TV on to listen to music, but at the same time the on-board display can not be read to find out what station or selection you want and besides, it's far easier for my no-good eyes to see the TV display and you do get album art in addition.
Ok, what is up with those other sound options? Arena, Concert, etc. Why were these included? All they do is echo making everything unintelligible and giving headaches. When would any of those come into use?
Remote: this could use some work. I don't mind that it lights up when I move it or pick it up. My Harmony does the same thing. However, they could have made it easier to switch sound modes for instance. One presses the corresponding button to what they are doing and the menu flashes on the screen for maybe 2 seconds and then often goes off before you can make your selection.

Other than that, this is an amazing AVR. No, it doesn't sound like separates, it's an AVR. Separates sound like separates. However, it almost sounds like your running separates, sort of. On my 100wpc Onkyo I had to turn it to 50-55 to get to my listening level which is very soft by most peoples calculations. On the 4520 I don't get past 40.

I'm more than happy with my 4520!

Just my personal experience and opinions so far. Everyone's mileage varies.
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post #8033 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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A few thoughts...

First... With your comments on better detail, dialogue, depth and surround volume... the reason for the season here is likely the addition of Dynamic EQ (and maybe Dynamic Volume if you have it on). Your old Onk 705 had MultEQ XT calibration but NOT any of the Dynamic enhancements, which really help to maintain fullness and surround impression at sub reference volumes.

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Some cons and almost cons: You have to have the TV on for streaming music and internet radio and such. Not quite a con though, more of a trade-off. I'm one of those who don't want to turn the TV on to listen to music, but at the same time the on-board display can not be read to find out what station or selection you want and besides, it's far easier for my no-good eyes to see the TV display and you do get album art in addition.

Do you have a tablet or smart phone? the remote app is the ticket here, it's very easy to stream music without turning on the TV or even having to touch the remote control. If you want to spring 5 bucks the DeRemote 3rd party app is even more powerful.

Quote:
Ok, what is up with those other sound options? Arena, Concert, etc. Why were these included? All they do is echo making everything unintelligible and giving headaches. When would any of those come into use?

Nobody actually uses these AFAIK. They are weird old legacy DSP's and I'm not sure why Denon even still has them.

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post #8034 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:00 PM
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Ok, what is up with those other sound options? Arena, Concert, etc. Why were these included? All they do is echo making everything unintelligible and giving headaches. When would any of those come into use?

Nobody actually uses these AFAIK. They are weird old legacy DSP's and I'm not sure why Denon even still has them.

What do you want to bet that if Denon got rid of those, someone would complain ? !! rolleyes.gif

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post #8035 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

A few thoughts...

First... With your comments on better detail, dialogue, depth and surround volume... the reason for the season here is likely the addition of Dynamic EQ (and maybe Dynamic Volume if you have it on). Your old Onk 705 had MultEQ XT calibration but NOT any of the Dynamic enhancements, which really help to maintain fullness and surround impression at sub reference volumes.
Do you have a tablet or smart phone? the remote app is the ticket here, it's very easy to stream music without turning on the TV or even having to touch the remote control. If you want to spring 5 bucks the DeRemote 3rd party app is even more powerful.
Nobody actually uses these AFAIK. They are weird old legacy DSP's and I'm not sure why Denon even still has them.

Ah, well I have Dynamic Volume set at "Off". Therefore it must be that magic Dynamic EQ then. Hey, we'll take it! My old Onk doesn't have any enhancements at all I've realized. I didn't realize the was something wrong with the prepro in it until I switched on the 4520 and heard sound out of the delay speakers loud enough to make me jump back.

Yes, I have a Nexus 7 and a few different remote apps loaded, but have not had a chance to try them out yet. I'll get there, like I said, I have more exploring to do. With my eyes, my TV is the best of all worlds, but again I'm not a fan of having it on all the time. so I'll be trying the apps on the tablet.

Yes, aren't those old DSPs just awful? I'd have the mind to talk to someone over at Denon, but they don't even know their own product. Hmm, on the other hand I someone who knows someone over there, but ...nah, he's too busy for that type of thing. It just seems to me that Denon could have saved some money or engineering headache by eliminating those old DSPs or at least offering well improved ones that actually work. Then again, like you said, who uses them? I know I wouldn't except if I was just fooling around. (That's how I found them and tried them out...won't be making that mistake again).
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post #8036 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by luvmusic View Post

... Onkyo: One amp doing the work of seven...

Very clever idea from Onkyo, eh? smile.gifcool.gif Sorry for the downer, but how did you get to that conclusion dear luv?
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post #8037 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:06 PM
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What do you want to bet that if Denon got rid of those, someone would complain ? !! rolleyes.gif

What's really funny about that is your probably right.rolleyes.gif
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post #8038 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:07 PM
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Luvmusi, I suggest you change your master volume setting from absolute to reference. Most here can easily relate a MV of say -15db much better than 40.


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post #8039 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:08 PM
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Very clever idea from Onkyo, eh? smile.gifcool.gif Sorry for the downer, but how did you get to that conclusion dear luv?

Simple, mostly by just looking under the hood at it (doesn't take a electronics degree to see the design) and talking to someone very familiar with the unit.
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post #8040 of 9147 Old 05-05-2014, 04:10 PM
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Simple, mostly by just looking under the hood at it (doesn't take a electronics degree to see the design) and talking to someone very familiar with the unit.

You gotta be kidding, right? smile.gif
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