The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 277 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:33 PM
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I'm trying to restore my original audyssey settings but I don't get the restore option in the audyssey section
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:43 PM
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You don't see a Restore button on this page?

 

 

If not, have you actually run a successful Audyssey calibration and saved the results to the AVR?  The only reason I could see that the button would not appear is if there were no default configuration to restore.

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Old 05-31-2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by com5984 View Post


I followed the instructions but when I click on save configuration, nothing happens. Am I missing something.

 

Power the unit off and on, and try again.  Make sure network is in "Off in Standby".  Based on my previous question, do you actually have a configuration to save?

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Old 05-31-2014, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I haven't seen any complaints of audio dropouts from other owners, so I would not expect a FW update.  I don't recall the history of your issue.  On what sources are you hearing dropouts?  Is it because of an HDMI handshake (which would affect video as well), or is it just audio?  What troubleshooting steps have you taken?

I posted a few months ago that I was having audio dropouts... and flat no sound at times.

I bought a new 4520 and took the original one in for service. Mine was a refurbished unit. The first one I got lasted a few hours. Denon sent a replacement.... three weeks later.
The second one had the audio drop out issue. In my case I could hear the protection relay clicking at times when the audio was out.

Without more information, it is had to say if the audio dropouts experienced by the OP are anything like mine... but it has definitely been reported by me and a few others.
There was a whole part of the thread when a guy was asking if it was really OK to lift and drop... or hit his unit to see if he would get similar results to what I got. Because he was having a similar issue.

Not to say that this is endemic to refurbished units.... just saying... problems with symptoms very close to what the OP is hearing have actually been reported.!

In my case, I am very sure that no firmware upgrade could possibly fix it !!



Phil
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:14 PM
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My post said not to expect a FW update to address audio dropouts that do not seem to be affecting a large number of users. We can't rule out defective units, of course.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:57 AM
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hello.... is there away to set different settings for different inputs. TV / Blue ray / music and so forth-

thanks

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Old 06-01-2014, 06:13 AM
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^^
You can use the Quick Select buttons for this as well as use them to power on and select that device.

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Old 06-01-2014, 11:52 AM
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I know I have seen the answer before, but I am drawing a blank. If I use the EXT IN connections to feed an analog 2-channel signal from my player, is there any way to involve my subwoofers in the output?

I would like to experiment with an external DAC, bypassing any D/A processing in the 4520, which would include bass management and RC, outputting a pure stereo signal, but involving the subs, if possible.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:13 PM
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^^
Set the sub to LFE+Main. smile.gif

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Old 06-01-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Set the sub to LFE+Main. smile.gif

Nope. No output when using EXT IN. I specifically tried this.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Set the sub to LFE+Main. smile.gif

Not with EXT IN.

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Jerry - the EXT IN are a direct passthrough to the amps, they are completely unprocessed. I think only the ch trims apply but that's it. So you would need external bass management.

What about just using a regular RCA analog input in Pure Direct mode? Then JD's suggestion of LFE+MAIN would work.

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Old 06-01-2014, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Jerry - the EXT IN are a direct passthrough to the amps, they are completely unprocessed. I think only the ch trims apply but that's it. So you would need external bass management.

What about just using a regular RCA analog input in Pure Direct mode? Then JD's suggestion of LFE+MAIN would work.

I don't know enough about what is happening under the covers to know if this is the right solution. To assess whether an external DAC provides any real benefit, I am looking for assurance that there is no alteration to the signal after the DAC processing.

Perhaps the best test is to simply leave the subs out of the loop, relying on my quite capable towers set to Large to provide the bass response.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Jerry - the EXT IN are a direct passthrough to the amps, they are completely unprocessed. I think only the ch trims apply but that's it. So you would need external bass management.

What about just using a regular RCA analog input in Pure Direct mode? Then JD's suggestion of LFE+MAIN would work.

I don't know enough about what is happening under the covers to know if this is the right solution. To assess whether an external DAC provides any real benefit, I am looking for assurance that there is no alteration to the signal after the DAC processing.

Perhaps the best test is to simply leave the subs out of the loop, relying on my quite capable towers set to Large to provide the bass response.

 

Jerry, how will you be assessing the impact (or otherwise) of external DACs?  It is my understanding that modern DACs in competent equipment such as yours, like modern amps, have long since passed the point where any differences in design, componentry etc make any audible difference to SQ. I will be interested in your findings as I am assuming you will be looking for objective evidence to support any conclusions you come to (as I am also assuming that you won't be conducting a blind ABX test).

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Old 06-01-2014, 04:02 PM
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Your feelings about whether there are audible differences in DAC's is familiar to me, Keith.  I don't plan on any rigorous testing or measurements.  I will only rely on subjective listening tests.  Expectation bias is surely to play a role in the process.  However, I don't want to put myself in a position of introducing any downstream processing that could influence what is surely going to be a subtle, if any, audio difference.  This is not a big deal--just me with time on my hands looking for possible improvements.

 

Edit:  I don't plan on sharing results in this forum.  I have seen too many debates on DAC's to want to get yet another one started.

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Old 06-02-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 

Your feelings about whether there are audible differences in DAC's is familiar to me, Keith.  I don't plan on any rigorous testing or measurements.  I will only rely on subjective listening tests.  Expectation bias is surely to play a role in the process.  However, I don't want to put myself in a position of introducing any downstream processing that could influence what is surely going to be a subtle, if any, audio difference.  This is not a big deal--just me with time on my hands looking for possible improvements.

 

Sure... I am genuinely interested in what you discover because, as you know, I value your opinions.

 

Quote:
 Edit:  I don't plan on sharing results in this forum.  I have seen too many debates on DAC's to want to get yet another one started.

 

Hahaha. Fair point. Maybe you coild let me know your findings elsewhere....

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Old 06-02-2014, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

You don't see a Restore button on this page?




If not, have you actually run a successful Audyssey calibration and saved the results to the AVR?  The only reason I could see that the button would not appear is if there were no default configuration to restore.

Ok I found it,
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Hahaha. Fair point. Maybe you coild let me know your findings elsewhere....

Yes, I'm sure we can find a way to exchange our thoughts! wink.gif
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Hahaha. Fair point. Maybe you coild let me know your findings elsewhere....

Yes, I'm sure we can find a way to exchange our thoughts! wink.gif

 

Excellent ;)

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Old 06-02-2014, 08:44 AM
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Hello everyone,
I finally had a very quiet living room last night and I decided to rerun Audyssey. Everything went smoothly, I just don't understand why the sub comes back so low. Its barely audible. Audyssey sets the trim level to -7.5db. The rest of the speakers are trimmed to between -3.5 to -4.5 db. They are B&W 600 series bookshelf speakers and are fairly easy to drive. The subs volume is set to the 3 o'clock position again with the help of the built in spl meter in the 4520 that helps you set the volume on the sub. Once Audyssey is done, I can go back raise the volume on the sub or even adjust the trim level on the UI to lets say -2.5db and then everything sounds just right. I know everyone has different taste and some people run there subs at higher levels, but why is Audyssey so conservative with the LFE is my question here?
Here the speakers I'm running for reference.
B&W's
602 S3 L/R
LCR 60 C
601 S3 RS/LS
ASW 650 Sub

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Old 06-02-2014, 09:09 AM
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It's quite easy to like more bass than you really should have in a well-balanced system. Any tuning by ear will most likely be too much from a theoretical/technical point of view. Two options, let it be like it is for a month and get yourself used to it.... Or accept you're a bass nut and dial it up to your liking.

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Old 06-02-2014, 09:35 AM
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I've been playing with my 4520 for about a month now and there are many things I like about it and some things I still have left to explore.
Sound quality: Overall, very nice. In fact, it does particularly well with vinyl records and streaming audio. However, the dacs in the 4520 seem to fall short for CD playback. I have a Marantz CD5004 (I know, same company), but I'm surprised that it seems the 4520 and the CD5004 tend to try to fight each other. I originally hooked up the CD5004 via analog RCA cable (good quality ones) and noticed that the sound was a tiny bit laid back even set to Direct mode, not as detailed as through my old Onkyo AVR set to Direct mode. It seems to me that setting the Onkyo to Direct mode cut off Audyssey completely and no processing was done through the dacs in the AVR. That was done by the excellent dacs in the CD5004.
However, on the 4520 it seems that Direct mode does not disengage Audyssey completely and the dacs in the AVR still try to process the sound from the CD player. So I set the 4520 to Pure mode and didn't hear any difference.

In curiosity I swapped out the RCA hook up for an optical (digital/Toslink) hook up and that was worse. Sounded almost muddy, so I went back to the RCA hook up as it was far better. All other gear downstream is fine (CD player, speakers, etc.).

I'm now wondering if a Coax hook up for the CD player would yield different results?

Still overall a fabulous AVR in most respects. Just not as friendly to CD playback, at least so far. Are there some additional settings or tweaks I may not know about regarding this?
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ril850 View Post

Hello everyone,
I finally had a very quiet living room last night and I decided to rerun Audyssey. Everything went smoothly, I just don't understand why the sub comes back so low. Its barely audible. Audyssey sets the trim level to -7.5db. The rest of the speakers are trimmed to between -3.5 to -4.5 db. They are B&W 600 series bookshelf speakers and are fairly easy to drive. The subs volume is set to the 3 o'clock position again with the help of the built in spl meter in the 4520 that helps you set the volume on the sub. Once Audyssey is done, I can go back raise the volume on the sub or even adjust the trim level on the UI to lets say -2.5db and then everything sounds just right. I know everyone has different taste and some people run there subs at higher levels, but why is Audyssey so conservative with the LFE is my question here?
Here the speakers I'm running for reference.
B&W's
602 S3 L/R
LCR 60 C
601 S3 RS/LS
ASW 650 Sub

 

Quite a lot if useful info in the Audyssey FAQ - try these links for starters...

 

f)4.    If I want to run my subs a little 'hot' where should I make the changes?


f)5.    Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

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Old 06-02-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by luvmusic View Post


I'm now wondering if a Coax hook up for the CD player would yield different results?
 

 

I have used both Toslink and digital coax and could not hear any difference.  Some cable enthusiasts claim that coax has a very slight improvement in jitter, but that would be hard to measure, and perhaps even harder to hear.

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Old 06-02-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a very polite way of saying "impossible" smile.gif

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Old 06-02-2014, 04:02 PM
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Yes, I'm sure we can find a way to exchange our thoughts! wink.gif

AFAIK you need Spock to exchange thoughts . . .
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I have used both Toslink and digital coax and could not hear any difference.  Some cable enthusiasts claim that coax has a very slight improvement in jitter, but that would be hard to measure, and perhaps even harder to hear.

Thanks Austin. That is the direction I'm thinking which is why I didn't bother trying the coax yet. In fact, I think the coax would disable the sound improvement on the CDP as well the same way the toslink does according to the manual.
I'm sticking with the analog hook up. It's not super terrible or anything sad like that at all. It just sounds to me like a small amount of detail I had before is lost due to the 4520 not fully disengaging any processing and the 4520 dacs fighting with the CDP dacs. I could be totally wrong.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:05 PM
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If this route means you are giving up room correction and bass management, then that is a big price to pay, IMO.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

If this route means you are giving up room correction and bass management, then that is a big price to pay, IMO.

Well, I'm not worried about bass management too much since I'm not running a sub and have the mains set to large which seems to be working out pretty damn good.
However, room correction is the basis on which the 4520 operates and it has done wonders for my vinyl record playback and surprisingly nice streaming performance even out-performing my squeezebox for sound quality. (Interface could use some work, but it's ok). Yes, giving up room correction is like just turning the the thing off pretty much. However, the CDP sounded better with my Onkyo and everything off on it....I think. I need to do more testing as I have mostly been playing vinyl with it and very little CDs so far. (No, I'm not one of those vinyl only guys or this only or that only, there's room and purpose in my audio world for many mediums).
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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How do you know if two DAC's are fighting each other? Nasty notes? Blood on the ground? I'm curious....

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