The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 280 - AVS Forum
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post #8371 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 02:41 AM
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Has Atmos been adopted as part of the Bluray Consortium specs already?
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post #8372 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 


All will be revealed in September, so not too long to wait now.

 

. . . And, unofficially at least, the waiting is largely over!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dolby Atmos will be offered starting with the X4100 and including the X5200 and X7200.  Specs and back panel diagrams are included with detailed specs for the X7200 TBA.

 

http://www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme

 

If anyone needs help with the French text, let me know and I will translate specific passages for you.

 

(Kudos to Snowmanick for providing the link.)

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post #8373 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 


All will be revealed in September, so not too long to wait now.

 

. . . And, unofficially at least, the waiting is largely over!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dolby Atmos will be offered starting with the X4100 and including the X5200 and X7200.  Specs and back panel diagrams are included with detailed specs for the X7200 TBA.

 

http://www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme

 

If anyone needs help with the French text, let me know and I will translate specific passages for you.

 

(Kudos to Snowmanick for providing the link.)

 

Excellent find!

 

Translating the headlines only:

 

AVR-X4100W: 7.2 Dolby Atmos, available in September at a price of 1,500 euros

 

AVR-X5200W: 9.2 Dolby Atmos, available in September at a price of 2,000 euros

 

AVR-X7200W: 9.2 Dolby Atmos, available in January 2015 at a price of 2,800 euros

 

For reference, 1000 Euros is approx $1360 USD.

 

Note that the review says "available in" September. Seems like, in Europe at least, Denon will have models "available" at the time of the CEDIA launch - even earlier than the end of 2014 I was predicting.

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post #8374 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 09:51 AM
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Bonjour wink.gif,

And even a better description here (still in French) :

http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/06/06/denon-avr-x7200w/

Merci Nicolas. smile.gif

Hugo

PS: et merci à Toi Keith for the Atmos info... now very unfortunately, in our room the ceiling is not horizontal, so the "magical" solution won't probably work here. mad.gif

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post #8375 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Bonjour wink.gif,

And even a better description here (still in French) :

http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/06/06/denon-avr-x7200w/

Merci Nicolas. smile.gif

Hugo

PS: et merci à Toi Keith for the Atmos info... now very unfortunately, in our room the ceiling is not horizontal, so the "magical" solution won't probably work here. mad.gif

 

Salut Hugo!

 

I think you will be OK even with a sloping ceiling.  Atmos isn't a sort of remapping thing like Trinnov, but the new AVRs will require to know where the speakers are positioned so that they can appropriately direct the objects. But that doesn't mean that it will know the angles of the speakers, only the distances. We’ll have to wait and see how this works and what it means in practice but I suspect you will be OK.

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post #8376 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Bonjour wink.gif,

And even a better description here (still in French) :

http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/06/06/denon-avr-x7200w/

Merci Nicolas. smile.gif

Hugo

PS: et merci à Toi Keith for the Atmos info... now very unfortunately, in our room the ceiling is not horizontal, so the "magical" solution won't probably work here. mad.gif

 

 

Nice write up given that there is still no official release.  I note, however, a few typos and omissions (e.g., no mention of Dolby Atmos) and so am reluctant to grant the source a great deal of credibility until his detailed info is confirmed by other reliable sources.

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post #8377 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Bonjour wink.gif,

And even a better description here (still in French) :

http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/06/06/denon-avr-x7200w/

Merci Nicolas. smile.gif

Hugo

PS: et merci à Toi Keith for the Atmos info... now very unfortunately, in our room the ceiling is not horizontal, so the "magical" solution won't probably work here. mad.gif

 

 

Nice write up given that there is still no official release.  I note, however, a few typos and omissions (e.g., no mention of Dolby Atmos) and so am reluctant to grant the source a great deal of credibility until his detailed info is confirmed by other reliable sources.

 

No mention of Atmos?  Did you miss my post just above, detailing Atmos units from Denon available this September?

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post #8378 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

No mention of Atmos?  Did you miss my post just above, detailing Atmos units from Denon available this September?

 

Keith,  I'm referencing the HDfever.fr article attributed to Nicolas Bécuwe at the hyperlink Hugo provided in his post #8374.  C'ést clair, mon vieux?:)  Jeff

 

P.S.  Such a major omission makes me question the reliability or completeness of his info; either that or previous indication of the inclusion of Atmos on the X4100/X5200/X7200 is erroneous.

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post #8379 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 11:44 AM
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Hi again,

Merci for the feed-back Keith, concerning speakers placement. smile.gif

Now concerning the definitive inclusion of Dolby Atmos in the Denon X7200W, in HDFever's article, the first paragraph ends with the sentence :
Quote:
Le Denon AVR-X7200W (...) prend évidemment en charge tous les décodeurs audio HD comme le Dolby TrueHD et DTS-HD Master Audio, et propose le procédé Dolby Prologic IIz pour offrir des effets verticaux dans une configuration 5.1 + Front High (2 enceintes placées au-dessus des Frontales) et Audyssey DSX pour une configuration 5.1 + Front Wide (2 enceintes placées sur les côtés des Frontales pour une meilleure transition en dégradé entre les Frontales et les Suround) ou encore le DTS-Neo:X. Il devrait même proposer d’autres codec audio 3D lors de sa commercialisation, mais pour le moment l’info est sous embargo.

I happen to know Nicolas, who owns HDFever (and though is responsible for its' published information) and he couldn't go beyond what he has written... even if obvioulsy Dolby Atmos and some sort of DTS UHD should be part of the (at least) the X7200X. wink.gif

Hugo

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post #8380 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi again,

Merci for the feed-back Keith, concerning speakers placement. smile.gif

Now concerning the definitive inclusion of Dolby Atmos in the Denon X7200W, in HDFever's article, the first paragraph ends with the sentence :
I happen to know Nicolas, who owns HDFever (and though is responsible for its' published information) and he couldn't go beyond what he has written... even if obvioulsy Dolby Atmos and some sort of DTS UHD should be part of the (at least) the X7200X. wink.gif

Hugo

 

 

Good to know.  But if M. Bécuwe believes that the info on inclusion of Dolby Atmos is under embargo by Denon for the time being, someone neglected to inform the editors of cinenow.fr, who have trumpeted it in big, bold headlines.

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post #8381 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

No mention of Atmos?  Did you miss my post just above, detailing Atmos units from Denon available this September?

 

Keith,  I'm referencing the HDfever.fr article attributed to Nicolas Bécuwe at the hyperlink Hugo provided in his post #8374.  C'ést clair, mon vieux?:)  Jeff

 

P.S.  Such a major omission makes me question the reliability or completeness of his info; either that or previous indication of the inclusion of Atmos on the X4100/X5200/X7200 is erroneous.

 

The link I am looking at is www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

 

They give availability dates and prices there. It seems feasible to me since it also ties in with what I know from other sources.

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post #8382 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi again,

Merci for the feed-back Keith, concerning speakers placement. smile.gif

Now concerning the definitive inclusion of Dolby Atmos in the Denon X7200W, in HDFever's article, the first paragraph ends with the sentence :
Quote:
Le Denon AVR-X7200W (...) prend évidemment en charge tous les décodeurs audio HD comme le Dolby TrueHD et DTS-HD Master Audio, et propose le procédé Dolby Prologic IIz pour offrir des effets verticaux dans une configuration 5.1 + Front High (2 enceintes placées au-dessus des Frontales) et Audyssey DSX pour une configuration 5.1 + Front Wide (2 enceintes placées sur les côtés des Frontales pour une meilleure transition en dégradé entre les Frontales et les Suround) ou encore le DTS-Neo:X. Il devrait même proposer d’autres codec audio 3D lors de sa commercialisation, mais pour le moment l’info est sous embargo.

I happen to know Nicolas, who owns HDFever (and though is responsible for its' published information) and he couldn't go beyond what he has written... even if obvioulsy Dolby Atmos and some sort of DTS UHD should be part of the (at least) the X7200X. wink.gif

Hugo

 

It's not HD Fever I am looking at Hugo - it's this:

 

http://www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

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post #8383 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

The link I am looking at is www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

 

They give availability dates and prices there. It seems feasible to me since it also ties in with what I know from other sources.

 

Right, that's the source I originally cited myself in my post #8372 above and the one I am most inclined to credit for completeness.  I've also read today the following French articles and they all omit mentioning Atmos or just reference an unidentified "new audio format" TBA:

 

http://www.audiovideohd.fr/actualites/10409-Denon-AVR-X5200W.html

 

http://www.avcesar.com/actu/id-14413/denon-avr-x7200w-92-hdmi-20-upscaling-uhd-4k-bis.html

 

as well as the aforementioned http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/06/06/denon-avr-x7200w/

 

Anyway, after so many months of idle speculation, it's exhilarating to be able to extrapolate and hypothesize from some hard data.

 

BTW since our sources so far are all Francophone, allow me to take a moment to acknowledge that this weekend was the 70th anniversary of the Allied forces' D-Day invasion on the Normandy coast.  I was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in France in 1984 and helped to coordinate U.S. participation in the 40th anniversary commemorations back then.  The returning vets--most of whom are now well into their 90's--were an impressive bunch of guys (and gals) and it was an honor to assist them.

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post #8384 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

The link I am looking at is www.cinenow.fr/articles/28834-denon-avr-x3100w-avr-x4100w-avr-x5200w-et-avr-x7200w-demandez-le-programme?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

 

They give availability dates and prices there. It seems feasible to me since it also ties in with what I know from other sources.

 

Right, that's the source I originally cited myself in my post #8372 above and the one I am most inclined to credit for completeness.  I've also read today the following French articles and they all omit mentioning Atmos or just reference an unidentified "new audio format" TBA:

 

 

The reason for that seems to be explained in the other article linked - that they are under embargo at this time. The Cineworld guys have ignored it, it seems.

 

 

Quote:

 BTW since our sources so far are all Francophone, allow me to take a moment to acknowledge that this weekend was the 70th anniversary of the Allied forces' D-Day invasion on the Normandy coast.  I was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in France in 1984 and helped to coordinate U.S. participation in the 40th anniversary commemorations back then.  The returning vets--most of whom are now well into their 90's--were an impressive bunch of guys (and gals) and it was an honor to assist them.

 

Kudos. The people of Europe will never forget the role that the USA played in helping win the war and to liberate so many people from such cruel oppression.

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post #8385 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 02:58 PM
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Pretty cool! I did notice that in one of the articles it said that Dolby Atmos will be available via a future firmware update. I wonder if that means that DTS-UHD can also be added later? Unfortunately, there's no mention at all of HDCP 2.2 which really concerns me.

Ya know what would be even more awesome? If Denon offered a feature-pack upgrade so that the 4520 could support Atmos. That might be technically feasible since the 4520 offers 11.1 pre-amp outputs and can drive 11.1 speakers in the main zone. I know that's wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened...

Meh, never mind, looks like all of the Atmos-ready receivers have 13.1 preamp outputs. Oh well -- depending on the HDCP 2.2 situation, my 4520 might be up for sale come January!

Keith, I'll PM you my address so you can mail me my crow dinner. smile.gif
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post #8386 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 03:13 PM
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re Bonjour,
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post

...
BTW since our sources so far are all Francophone, allow me to take a moment to acknowledge that this weekend was the 70th anniversary of the Allied forces' D-Day invasion on the Normandy coast.  I was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in France in 1984 and helped to coordinate U.S. participation in the 40th anniversary commemorations back then.  The returning vets--most of whom are now well into their 90's--were an impressive bunch of guys (and gals) and it was an honor to assist them.

Un GRAND moment d'Histoire!!!

Actually my Father in Law is a WWII Veteran, as he was Chef de char (tank) Sherman in General Leclerc's 2nd DB (Division Blindée). A division which was part of Patton's Army. His Company didn't disembark on D-Day, but a bit later and he was one of the very first to arrive in the southern suburbs of Paris... a liberation where he met my Mother in Law.... 70 yrs ago.

He also participated in the liberation of Strasbourg, fought in the "Ardennes" and finished the War by being the first allied soldier to arrive into Berchtesgaden carrying les "Trois Couleurs", the French Flag...

A VERY humble man, soon to be 90 yrs old. Who when asked what was the motivation for what he did, just answers : ben, parce qu'il fallait le faire...

Chapeau bas, Cher Marcel!

Hugo

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post #8387 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 06:33 PM
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Here's my question:

It's mainly Atmos; HDMI 2.0 (which may evolve again into 2.1, 2.2 etc etc leaving the new amp obsolete) and 4k processing right?
Am I missing something or do I feel like I should keep my 4520 until the next upgrade?
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post #8388 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Here's my question:

It's mainly Atmos; HDMI 2.0 (which may evolve again into 2.1, 2.2 etc etc leaving the new amp obsolete) and 4k processing right?
Am I missing something or do I feel like I should keep my 4520 until the next upgrade?
Yep, you've nailed it. Other than Atmos and whatever HDMI 2.0 brings, it looks very, very similar to the AVR-4520CI. If I couldn't go to more than 7.2 speakers, I'd likely just stick with the 4520CI for the foreseeable future.

As it is now, my joists run the wrong way, so it's likely going to take professional intervention to get in-ceiling speakers (or, heck, even more "regular" speakers with in-wall wiring) installed. And I thought I was way ahead of the curve when I spec'd in-wall wiring for a 7.2 setup in my dedicated room!

Ah, the lengths we go to for the latest-and-greatest!
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post #8389 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Here's my question:

It's mainly Atmos; HDMI 2.0 (which may evolve again into 2.1, 2.2 etc etc leaving the new amp obsolete) and 4k processing right?
Am I missing something or do I feel like I should keep my 4520 until the next upgrade?

Pete, it is all purely conjecture at this point. Whether an upgrade will be compelling will depend on the models actually becoming available, and being reviewed in the field. IMO, HDMI 2.0 doesn't make for a compelling upgrade. What requires HDMI 2.0? 4K up-scaling exists in current models, but is also not a compelling upgrade. For example, even though I have a 4K display, I never use the 4520 to up-scale the signal--it is all left to the display to up-scale.

And as for Atmos, we need content with Atmos encoding to take advantage of this technology. How soon is content going to be widely available?

So yes, IMO your 4520 has a lot of life left in it. It certainly won't be immediately obsolete after September.
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post #8390 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 07:47 PM
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A $4,000 avr just seems insane to me at this point in '14. If both a 5200 and 7200 arrive it will be interesting to see just what the latter brings to justify such a price chasm.

It appears insufferably over priced for 99.98% of the populace and you would think the other .02% would demand a bona fide pre pro or at least xlrs at such a figure.

Oh well.

James

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Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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And as for Atmos, we need content with Atmos encoding to take advantage of this technology. How soon is content going to be widely available?
Very, very true. In my excitement for the promise of Atmos, I forgot that a bunch of shiny new hardware and speakers dangling from every corner of the room don't do much good without content to use them.
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post #8392 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 07:57 PM
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A $4,000 avr just seems insane to me at this point.

Insufferably over priced for 99.98% of the populace and you would think the other .02% would demanda bona fide pre pro or at least xlrs at such a figure.

Oh well.

James
What AVR is $4000? As best I can tell, the announced price of the AVR-X7200W is €2800. This is also the same European MSRP of the AVR-4520CI. Thus, I'd expect the the AVR-X7200W to be priced just like the AVR-4520CI in the U.S. -- $2500 MSRP, lower (sometimes significantly, depending on your dealer) street price.
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post #8393 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 08:16 PM
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What AVR is $4000? As best I can tell, the announced price of the AVR-X7200W is €2800. This is also the same European MSRP of the AVR-4520CI. Thus, I'd expect the the AVR-X7200W to be priced just like the AVR-4520CI in the U.S. -- $2500 MSRP, lower (sometimes significantly, depending on your dealer) street price.

I've read multiple accounts- including on this thread above of a ~2800 euro price tag for the 7200. That's $3800+ right now. If the 4520 has a 2800 euro msrp that's news to me.

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post #8394 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

What AVR is $4000? As best I can tell, the announced price of the AVR-X7200W is €2800. This is also the same European MSRP of the AVR-4520CI. Thus, I'd expect the the AVR-X7200W to be priced just like the AVR-4520CI in the U.S. -- $2500 MSRP, lower (sometimes significantly, depending on your dealer) street price.

Let's see what the price turns out to be..
That's a big jump over the 4520, which IMO, has been stable and fixed all the bugs in the previous model. The 4520 has been a generally trouble-free model since it's launch.

Thisnew one will likely be a re-designed with new boards etc..
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post #8395 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 08:27 PM
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I've read multiple accounts- including on this thread above of a ~2800 euro price tag for the 7200. That's $3800+ right now. If the 4520 has a 2800 euro msrp that's news to me.

James
Here's where I saw that the AVR-4520's European MSRP is €2800.

It's not uncommon for European list prices to be higher -- sometimes substantially so -- than American ones. And if the X7200W is the direct-replacement for the 4520 (and based on specs, it sure looks like it -- aside from Atmos and HDMI 2.0 they're practically identical), then I'd expect them to be priced similarly.
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post #8396 of 8741 Old 06-08-2014, 10:12 PM
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Well I have ordered the Oppo 103D and the S & D video calibration disc. Kinda the last piece to my system unless I upgrade already existing pieces at this point. Looking forward to getting it setup. Any advice for the video calibration side with that disc? I remember a couple mentioning they use it here smile.gif
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post #8397 of 8741 Old 06-09-2014, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Here's where I saw that the AVR-4520's European MSRP is €2800.

It's not uncommon for European list prices to be higher -- sometimes substantially so -- than American ones. And if the X7200W is the direct-replacement for the 4520 (and based on specs, it sure looks like it -- aside from Atmos and HDMI 2.0 they're practically identical), then I'd expect them to be priced similarly.

It used to be €2800 including ALL taxes. It dropped to €2400 some time ago, and sometimes even to €2000, which is uncommon for Denon, these price drops. Now it is widely available for €1750 here.
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post #8398 of 8741 Old 06-09-2014, 02:08 AM
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Pretty cool! I did notice that in one of the articles it said that Dolby Atmos will be available via a future firmware update. I wonder if that means that DTS-UHD can also be added later? Unfortunately, there's no mention at all of HDCP 2.2 which really concerns me.=

 

Not sure about what is possible via FW. I am guessing that if Atmos can be added via FW that DTS-UHD can also. So long as the hardware is capable of supporting the requirements for Atmos, then it may well be possible to upgrade any unit - but I doubt we would see it happen.

 

 

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 Ya know what would be even more awesome? If Denon offered a feature-pack upgrade so that the 4520 could support Atmos. That might be technically feasible since the 4520 offers 11.1 pre-amp outputs and can drive 11.1 speakers in the main zone. I know that's wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened...
 

 

I can't see any manufacturer wanting you to upgrade a unit you already own when they can sell you a brand new unit ;) Even if it's technically possible.

 

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 Meh, never mind, looks like all of the Atmos-ready receivers have 13.1 preamp outputs. Oh well -- depending on the HDCP 2.2 situation, my 4520 might be up for sale come January!

 

Yeah - so will my Onkyo 5509 prepro too :)

 

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Keith, I'll PM you my address so you can mail me my crow dinner. smile.gif 

 

Hahahaha. No way, buddy...  :)

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post #8399 of 8741 Old 06-09-2014, 02:11 AM
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re Bonjour,
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...
BTW since our sources so far are all Francophone, allow me to take a moment to acknowledge that this weekend was the 70th anniversary of the Allied forces' D-Day invasion on the Normandy coast.  I was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in France in 1984 and helped to coordinate U.S. participation in the 40th anniversary commemorations back then.  The returning vets--most of whom are now well into their 90's--were an impressive bunch of guys (and gals) and it was an honor to assist them.

Un GRAND moment d'Histoire!!!

Actually my Father in Law is a WWII Veteran, as he was Chef de char (tank) Sherman in General Leclerc's 2nd DB (Division Blindée). A division which was part of Patton's Army. His Company didn't disembark on D-Day, but a bit later and he was one of the very first to arrive in the southern suburbs of Paris... a liberation where he met my Mother in Law.... 70 yrs ago.

He also participated in the liberation of Strasbourg, fought in the "Ardennes" and finished the War by being the first allied soldier to arrive into Berchtesgaden carrying les "Trois Couleurs", the French Flag...

A VERY humble man, soon to be 90 yrs old. Who when asked what was the motivation for what he did, just answers : ben, parce qu'il fallait le faire...

Chapeau bas, Cher Marcel!

Hugo

 

Lovely post Hugo. My late father was a WWII veteran - professional soldier, served all his life until he lost his leg in combat in France.

 

For the benefit of anyone who didn't follow this - "ben, parce qu'il fallait le faire..." means "well, it had to be done...". Great attitude for life. Respect!

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post #8400 of 8741 Old 06-09-2014, 02:13 AM
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As it is now, my joists run the wrong way,

 

This seems to be some universal truth of home theater design - mine run the wrong way too. Makes a simple job a major undertaking. But I will do it for those rear heights in what will be my 5.2+4 setup.

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