The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 290 - AVS Forum
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post #8671 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chiptouz View Post
Upgraders from the 3808ci to the 4520 was it worth it? I get the new Audyssey, which I really want, and the other features. How about pure sound, enjoyment, etc. I wouldn't mind hearing your stories.


Thanks,


Chip
I hope it is worth it. I just pulled the trigger on a 4520 to replace my 3808. Although I ended up going the refurb route from an authorized Denon online seller. So at least it will come with a one year Denon warranty. Some of the comments in the thread got me a little scared that there might be an issue or two. So if I had gone my original route of getting a used one from a personal seller. I would have saved a little but not had a warranty.

Of course new would have been great too. AVS had a superb price. But I was more limited on funds than I had originally thought since having some water damage from one of the condos above me. And also a rock hitting my windshield, which now needs to be replaced. So I needed to go the lower cost route.

It seems like you get alot more now for the price. Back when I got my 3808 it retailed for $2k. The AVR-4520 retails for $2.5K. Prices on receivers seems to have come down in the 6.5 years since I got my 3808. You get alot more for your money.

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post #8672 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
Mine is dead-quiet, except when its fans run. AVR4520's do not use toroids so, generally speaking, they should be quieter (except if the unit's transformer was poorly constructed that there are loose E's or I's).

One cause of hum inside the AVR enclosure is the power transformer, or the power amplifiers drawing too much current that some wires going thru and/or out of them generate enough magnetic force to vibrate magnetisable components around them. Your unit would be always HOT if this is the case.

Amplifier hum noise that appear at the speakers can be caused by a bad ground-loop in your setup. Plug all the devices connected to your AVR into the same outlet as your AVR - ie, power them all from only one connection board so that only one power cable is connected to the wall. (Lookup the net for ground loop hums)
Yes, mine is dead quiet as well. Quieter than my Onkyo was both with fan rig and without.
Just got to watch the heat on these guys. If running an an open environment, there is nothing to worry about. If it is in any cabinet at all, even open cabinet, it would be wise to get a cooling rig for that extra measure.
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post #8673 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I hope it is worth it. I just pulled the trigger on a 4520 to replace my 3808. Although I ended up going the refurb route from an authorized Denon online seller. So at least it will come with a one year Denon warranty. Some of the comments in the thread got me a little scared that there might be an issue or two. So if I had gone my original route of getting a used one from a personal seller. I would have saved a little but not had a warranty.

Of course new would have been great too. AVS had a superb price. But I was more limited on funds than I had originally thought since having some water damage from one of the condos above me. And also a rock hitting my windshield, which now needs to be replaced. So I needed to go the lower cost route.

It seems like you get alot more now for the price. Back when I got my 3808 it retailed for $2k. The AVR-4520 retails for $2.5K. Prices on receivers seems to have come down in the 6.5 years since I got my 3808. You get alot more for your money.
Well worth it. Just be aware that even with a 1 year warranty it is a refurb, so you'll never know what was wrong with it. Just hope it was not major and was fixed properly. Of course, all the things that could go wrong with the refurb could also go wrong with the new. Electronics is always a gamble, new, refurb, used.
In any case, I would not worry too much about some of the issues you have read about. Some are just from haters and haters gonna hate, no matter what. Some are legit of things that just slip past QC sometimes and some are user error. As with any gear you don't know what you got until you plug it in and follow instructions and then start using it. Most times, it's good.

I know one thing about the 4520 compared to the Onkyo I replaced with it. The build design is superior on the 4520 hands down. I had pictures of the inside of the 4520 and I opened up my Onkyo and compared.
Some of the superior items: The location of the cooling fins relative to the amp boards: On the Onkyo the cooling fins are miles away from the amp board (yes, single board). Onkyo = one amp board, 4520 = 9 separate amp boards all located next to and facing the cooling fins. Onkyo = one power supply, 4520 = two power supplies in series if I remember correctly (I don't have the pics in front of me right now). Onkyo = one very small intake fan located on bottom middle front. 4520 = 3 slightly larger and quieter intake fans located at various spots on bottom.

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post #8674 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 09:41 AM
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4520 Amp Assignment

I know that my answer should be found somewhere in this thread and I have tried to search with no luck.
I am setting up a new media room for a friend and do not have experience with the 4520. My question is this:
The set up is 5.1 and I will not need any zones other than the main zone. Can I assign all 9 channels of power to L,C,R, RS, LS? I see multiple options in the manual but nothing that shows just 5 channels and only the main zone.
Thanks
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post #8675 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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If you aren't using any other channels besides a standard 5.1 setup, you don't need any fancy amp assign options. You can just leave it on the default "7.1ch + Zone2" and run Audyssey and be done. The unused amps will be.... unused.

If you want to bi-amp the front speakers with internal amps you can also switch to one of the Bi-Amp amp assign settings. The "7.1ch(Bi-Amp)" setting will assign all amps to the main zone, with 2 ending up getting unused; the "5.1ch(Bi-Amp) + Zone2" setting will assign 7 amps to main zone (4 for bi-amp) and leave you the option to power a pair of Zone 2 speakers without changing any settings.

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post #8676 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 10:45 AM
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Red face Happy with my new 4520!

I purchased a new Denon 4520CI in February from JD at AV Science. It was a great deal and I highly recommend purchasing from JD! Many thanks to Batpig and the other key contributors, I have learned a great deal about the 4520 from reading this thread. I travel so much in March-June that this is the first time I've had a chance to report that I have been very satisfied with the 4520 and recommend it without hesitation. I'm using it as a pre-pro with a B&K Ref 200 amp. I don't know that I need a separate amp, I just decided to replace my B&K Ref 30 pre-pro and continue using the amp.

So far, I have only one question. When used in conjunction with my Sony BDP-S5100 BR player, the Denon display reports Multi-Ch for the audio instead of the actual audio stream. I seem to recall reading that the solution is to set the BR player to bitstream output. My Sony has two audio output options - Auto and PCM. I've tried both of those and it has no effect on what the Denon display reports. Any suggestions please?
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post #8677 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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With Sony players you usually have to also turn off the "secondary audio" mix in order to enable/allow full bitstream output of hi-rez audio.

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post #8678 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
With Sony players you usually have to also turn off the "secondary audio" mix in order to enable/allow full bitstream output of hi-rez audio.
That is how it worked with my S5100 and my Denon 3808.

My 4520 was shipped today so hopefully I will get it for the weekend. Then the work begins. I'll need to re-calibrate my Tv, after setting up the 4520, since i will be routing the video through the 4520. Although I don't plan on using any of it's video processing.

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post #8679 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 12:38 PM
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Aaron, I would be interested in hearing whether you find any changes in your display calibration settings with video routed through the 4520. I didn't see any differences, and I am up-scaling all video sources to 1080p on the Denon. In other words, I think the Denon is completely neutral.

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post #8680 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 01:27 PM
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the only thing I remember reading was that if 4:2:2 was input to the 4520 that is would not pass the chroma resolution test. RGB and 4:4:4 would pass. I think it was a Sound and Vision review?

I will only be using one input on the 4520 and that will be from the output of my DVDO DUO. Since the DUO will do the video processing I won't be relying on the 4520 for it.

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post #8681 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 01:29 PM
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What about heat from the 4520? with my 3806 and my current 3808 I used a whisper quiet fan, on top, to create some air movement through the receiver. Will I still need this or does the 4520 have some internal fans?

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post #8682 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 01:53 PM
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^^
Its got 2 internal fans.
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post #8683 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 06:06 PM
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A comment based on Jerry and Aaron on passing the video through the 4520. Although I'm sure most here know the answer. What are the settings I should have everything set on? I have not done anything since turning it on. I just ran the S&M video basic calibration on my Panasonic plasma after my Oppo 103D arrived. Thanks guys

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I have all inputs set to output in native resolution, and then up-scaled to 1080p by the 4520. This provides a consistent signal to my display, which is a 4K display. The 4520 does a fine job up-scaling.

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post #8685 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have all inputs set to output in native resolution, and then up-scaled to 1080p by the 4520. This provides a consistent signal to my display, which is a 4K display. The 4520 does a fine job up-scaling.
I will check when I get home. Nice on the display Took a buddy TV shopping and the UHD sets sure caught my eye. I would like to see what the black levels are like in my room when dark. Also I hear the Vizio P and R series should be out finally. Anyway, a 65 inch set would do a good upgrade over my 50 at 8ft.

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post #8686 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
If you aren't using any other channels besides a standard 5.1 setup, you don't need any fancy amp assign options. You can just leave it on the default "7.1ch + Zone2" and run Audyssey and be done. The unused amps will be.... unused.

If you want to bi-amp the front speakers with internal amps you can also switch to one of the Bi-Amp amp assign settings. The "7.1ch(Bi-Amp)" setting will assign all amps to the main zone, with 2 ending up getting unused; the "5.1ch(Bi-Amp) + Zone2" setting will assign 7 amps to main zone (4 for bi-amp) and leave you the option to power a pair of Zone 2 speakers without changing any settings.
Thanks
Looks like I will go with the 7.1 ch Bi Amp option. It a shame you can't harness all the power to what you actually need i.e. 5 channels.
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post #8687 of 9970 Old 07-08-2014, 08:28 PM
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what speakers are you using...anything moderately efficient should make your ears bleed with 190rms avail



Quote:
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Thanks
Looks like I will go with the 7.1 ch Bi Amp option. It a shame you can't harness all the power to what you actually need i.e. 5 channels.
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post #8688 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 02:13 AM
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Stereo vs Multi-Channel Stereo

Hi,

Have the 4520 for 2 weeks now, coming from an Onkyo TX-NR5007, and briefly TX-NR5010(returned due to faulty HDMI AGAIN). I have 9.2 setup with KEF IQ90 fronts, IQ 70 Surrounds and Wides and IQ50 for Surround backs. Subs are 2 x BK XXLS400.

Multichannel sources sound great(movies and concerts), with nice tight and full bass(love Sub EQ results).

For 2 channel music sources I was looking to use Stereo mode or the Multi channel Stereo mode...

Multi channel Stereo sounds ok, but the levels are high(had to reduce with-10 source level) vs other modes and Stereo(incl pure) modes. Stereo mode sounds very "thin" and just does not sound as if the IQ90's together with the subs are delivering to their full capabilities. With the Onkyo I did not have this difference, and actually liked the stereo mode. On the Onkyo the multi channel stereo was also nice, with the little difference being as if stereo is just output over more speakers.

I tried different x overs, Large, LFE+mains, etc... but I just can't seem to get a full sound in stereo mode, whereas the Mutli channel stereo mode, just fills the room with dynamic rich(a little too) bass/mid/high filled sound.

What are your observations with Stereo mode vs Multi channel stereo? Could it be that the KEF IQ90 fronts would come out with better Stereo with a separate power amp?

Thanks,

Yveke.
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post #8689 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
It a shame you can't harness all the power to what you actually need i.e. 5 channels.
The internal amps aren't independent of each other; total power is limited by the AVR's single power supply.
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post #8690 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
If you aren't using any other channels besides a standard 5.1 setup, you don't need any fancy amp assign options. You can just leave it on the default "7.1ch + Zone2" and run Audyssey and be done. The unused amps will be.... unused.

If you want to bi-amp the front speakers with internal amps you can also switch to one of the Bi-Amp amp assign settings. The "7.1ch(Bi-Amp)" setting will assign all amps to the main zone, with 2 ending up getting unused; the "5.1ch(Bi-Amp) + Zone2" setting will assign 7 amps to main zone (4 for bi-amp) and leave you the option to power a pair of Zone 2 speakers without changing any settings.
I assume this bi-amp function will be useless if my speaker only has a set of binding post. It will be nice if Denon has the bridge mode.

By the way, is there a "dialogue lift" function in Denon?
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post #8691 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 04:30 AM
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Correct. The speaker needs two sets of binding posts. Also, no Dialogue Lift as is featured on Yamaha AVRs.

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post #8692 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yveke View Post
Hi,

What are your observations with Stereo mode vs Multi channel stereo? Could it be that the KEF IQ90 fronts would come out with better Stereo with a separate power amp?

Thanks,

Yveke.
I feel you, the sound in direct modes is very VERY 'thin', defenitly compared when XT32 is enabled. It get's better on high volumes though ... I have the exact experience with b&w 684's ... not the hardest speakers to drive ... conclusion, I listen to most of my airplayed music with audyssey on @15D b offset ... and subeq works really good with electronic music.
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post #8693 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 09:07 AM
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what speakers are you using...anything moderately efficient should make your ears bleed with 190rms avail
The speakers are PSB Imagine T2 which have a 91db efficiency.
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post #8694 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 10:18 AM
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Does anyone know which model scaler is used in the 4520? I assume something different than the ABT2015 used in the 4311CI.
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Does anyone know which model scaler is used in the 4520? I assume something different than the ABT2015 used in the 4311CI.
Analog Devices ADV8003.
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post #8696 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 12:58 PM
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Is there any type of ht multi channel headphones that I can use with the 4520 for late night movies.
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post #8697 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
The speakers are PSB Imagine T2 which have a 91db efficiency.
on the less sensitive end but you will be fine . set it up and play at reference and see if it clips. mine are 98db and i cant bear it at reference, wayyyyyyy too loud.

yours should be more than half as loud At that level (or require less than twice as much power to be as loud).
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post #8698 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 01:16 PM
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Is there any type of ht multi channel headphones that I can use with the 4520 for late night movies.
I used to use Denon AHD-600 cans and they worked great. There are some headphones out there made for surround effects and such I believe. I think it was DTS that was making a pair. I watched a youtube vid on them and people demoing them but it was awhile ago, and expensive.

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post #8699 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Benga View Post
I feel you, the sound in direct modes is very VERY 'thin', defenitly compared when XT32 is enabled. It get's better on high volumes though ... I have the exact experience with b&w 684's ... not the hardest speakers to drive ... conclusion, I listen to most of my airplayed music with audyssey on @15D b offset ... and subeq works really good with electronic music.
I would never use direct. I measured it once and it had the bass below 120hz down like 12db. I was like ??? And yes that was before my REW issues for those who know about that

I came to the conclusion I will do serious music listening in Stereo for now on. I really like the ambient PLII Music effect from surrounds and the front stage with heights and wides. But With stereo I stay just with my better speakers. But the main reason is...I was doing some comparing to the same song/clips repeated between Stereo and PLII Music. I noticed some subtle effects that sealed the deal for me. On PLII Music I was noticing some of the drums and electric guitar was more "recessed" and "muffled." It was like a muffling blanket was put over them if you were watching live. Back to stereo and they are fully present. I am sure this is that they are stereo soucres and something happens when the PLII Music preset does it's mixing. One song had an electric guitar starting with a very continual picking strum repeatedly. It is very precise and "forward" for lack of better description. Going to PLII Music it honestly is like someone put the guy on the guitar in one of those drum enclosures you see the drummer sitting in sometimes. Those clear Plexiglas enclosures used to dampen the drums sometimes. Just curious if anyone else has noticed these things. It certainly is not along the same lines of "this amp sounds better than the other amp." It is real noticeable differences.

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

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jlpowell84 is offline  
post #8700 of 9970 Old 07-09-2014, 01:50 PM
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Most my hifi-nerd friends seems to run with as much processing turned off as possible also for movies. Absolutely no audyssey or similar. Not that strict myself, not yet at least.

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