The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 291 - AVS Forum
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post #8701 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 01:50 PM
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Most my hifi-nerd friends seems to run with as much processing turned off as possible also for movies. Absolutely no audyssey or similar. Not that strict myself, not yet at least.

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post #8702 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 02:03 PM
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If your room is carefully treated and your speakers (and subs) are highly accurate, then there isn't much left for Audyssey to do. Most people don't have that kind of listening environment, though.
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post #8703 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
If your room is carefully treated and your speakers (and subs) are highly accurate, then there isn't much left for Audyssey to do. Most people don't have that kind of listening environment, though.
Yup -- most of the time turning off Audyssey and other processing is more about "purity" bias than it is about actual objective data.

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post #8704 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 03:24 PM
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I was watching a movie last night when suddenly the picture goes crazy and then nothing. I thought i was my brand new jvc projector wit am hdmi problem. After about 3 hours of double checking the hdmi output on the denon is bad. I am sending it in to a local repair shop in Connecticut. The tech i spoke to said he has replaced many of the hdmi boards. I thought only Onkyo had this kind of problem. I was not sure if i should of sent it to the New Jersey location or not. I hope it is not gone too long since i am using an old onkyo 501 in its place.

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post #8705 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 04:22 PM
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Does anyone know haw many watts the 4520 actually draws? I'm currently using an APC 1300VA UPS with my 3808 and it doesn't come anywhere close to hitting the UPS max of 780 watts. But the 4520 is more powerful so if I need to get an APC 1500VA UPS(which can handle up to 865 watts) I need to put one in place of the 1300VA UPS before my 4520 arrives.

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post #8706 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 04:38 PM
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^^
Likely no more than 100W-110W on average (if that), although perhaps someone with a Kill-O-Watt can chime in.

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post #8707 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 04:41 PM
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OK. Then I should be fine. Thanks.

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post #8708 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Does anyone know haw many watts the 4520 actually draws? I'm currently using an APC 1300VA UPS with my 3808 and it doesn't come anywhere close to hitting the UPS max of 780 watts. But the 4520 is more powerful so if I need to get an APC 1500VA UPS(which can handle up to 865 watts) I need to put one in place of the 1300VA UPS before my 4520 arrives.
I don't know if it will be more stateside, but down here (230v), I used a Belkin device to measure (it's available off Amazon), and at idle it's about 25W, and in full tilt it's still less than 150W, but I have subs taking the stress off for the lower frequencies.

I once attached my laptop, Oppo BR player, TV, 4520 and stereo amp to the same socket, and the total draw was less than 700W...
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post #8709 of 8730 Old 07-09-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Does anyone know haw many watts the 4520 actually draws? I'm currently using an APC 1300VA UPS with my 3808 and it doesn't come anywhere close to hitting the UPS max of 780 watts. But the 4520 is more powerful so if I need to get an APC 1500VA UPS(which can handle up to 865 watts) I need to put one in place of the 1300VA UPS before my 4520 arrives.
I have my 4520, 2-channel Onko amp, JVC RS46 projector, PS3, HTPC, router, modem, cooling fans and the rest of my home theater gear (except subs) all running through a 1500 watt APC battery backup without issues. It's usually got 3/5 LED's lit up on the load meter.

I finished the Dexter series finale on battery power one night. (storm...and disappointed in Dexter)

Last edited by Dreamliner; 07-09-2014 at 11:51 PM.
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post #8710 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I would never use direct. I measured it once and it had the bass below 120hz down like 12db.

I came to the conclusion I will do serious music listening in Stereo for now on. Back to stereo and they are fully present. I am sure this is that they are stereo soucres and something happens when the PLII Music preset does it's mixing.
Hmmz -12db on 120 hz?? Wow that's extreme and might explain my problem with the direct modi ... When listening in normal stereo do you prefer with or without audyssey engaged? I always tought that is was my speakers sounding muffled in the direct stand, but the fact you have measured this might point out to a 4520 flaw...
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What about your experiences with Multi-channel stereo(9.2 in my case) vs "normal" 2.1 Stereo mode?

Multi-CH. Stereo seems a bit too much overdone on mid and bass, but still I like the sound as a base for further tuning. There seems to be a huge difference between Multi-CH Stereo vs the 2.1 Stereo, anyone have a plausible explanation?
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Multi CH Stereo simply passes the same 2.0 signal going to the FL/FR speakers to each of the other 3 pairs of speakers you are using.

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post #8713 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Multi CH Stereo simply passes the same 2.0 signal going to the FL/FR speakers to each of the other 3 pairs of speakers you are using.
Well, that seems strange as I can defintely hear a distinct difference in bass output, and it seems more than just the higher volume due to more speakers. With multi channel stereo I need to bring soruce input level down by -10db to be equal to the Stereo mode output. Stereo with FR/FL(KEF IQ90) + my 2 subs seems very thin compared to the 9.2 output with multichannel stereo. Do you all experience the same i.e. A/B listen, not just the theory?
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post #8714 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I have my 4520, 2-channel Onko amp, JVC RS46 projector, PS3, HTPC, router, modem, cooling fans and the rest of my home theater gear (except subs) all running through a 1500 watt APC battery backup without issues. It's usually got 3/5 LED's lit up on the load meter.

I finished the Dexter series finale on battery power one night. (storm...and disappointed in Dexter)
Thanks. I forgot how little power the receivers draw. My 3808 last night didn't go higher than 170 watts when I was looking at it. ANd that was only when I had a loud section from a BD. I have one 1300VA UPS dedicated to my receiver, one 1500VA UPS dedicated to my subwoofer and then a couple of the 1500VA UPSs, with extended runtime batteries, dedicated to everything else in my main display area.

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post #8715 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Thanks. I forgot how little power the receivers draw. My 3808 last night didn't go higher than 170 watts when I was looking at it. ANd that was only when I had a loud section from a BD. I have one 1300VA UPS dedicated to my receiver, one 1500VA UPS dedicated to my subwoofer and then a couple of the 1500VA UPSs, with extended runtime batteries, dedicated to everything else in my main display area.
Aaron, that sounds about right extrapolating from my experience. I have my AVR-3311CI (driving 7 speakers), an AMP-100 (driving 4 speakers), and a TiVo Premiere Elite all on battery-backup outlets on a CyberPower CP825AVRG (450W). The highest power draw I've been able to measure has been between 130 to 140W, and that's at ear-splitting levels in the main zone; otherwise it seldom goes over about 110W (JD pretty much hit it on the nose). I have the rest of the AV gear in my main zone on a separate CyberPower CP550SLG (330W) with the SW on a surge-only protected outlet. I like CyberPower for their user-friendly PowerPanel UI, which allows me to monitor battery performance via USB to a laptop without having to access the UPS itself, which sits out of view behind my wall unit.

I don't know what your requirements are, but I am jealous of the resources you are devoting to UPS backup. I know you've had a little bad luck lately with water damage and a broken windshield, and it's too bad your UPS's couldn't have helped with those incidents.

BTW, as you know replacement batteries--particularly on the larger UPS's--can be rather expensive. I've had good results buying non-OEM batteries from this eBay seller. If they carry the suitable battery for your 1300/1500VA UPS's, you can probably get replacements for around $20 shipped, which is about one-half what you'd pay at a retail store.

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post #8716 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yveke View Post
Well, that seems strange as I can defintely hear a distinct difference in bass output, and it seems more than just the higher volume due to more speakers. With multi channel stereo I need to bring soruce input level down by -10db to be equal to the Stereo mode output. Stereo with FR/FL(KEF IQ90) + my 2 subs seems very thin compared to the 9.2 output with multichannel stereo. Do you all experience the same i.e. A/B listen, not just the theory?
You should check the sub trim levels. Different presets save different sub trim levels. Just a thought...
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post #8717 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga View Post
Hmmz -12db on 120 hz?? Wow that's extreme and might explain my problem with the direct modi ... When listening in normal stereo do you prefer with or without audyssey engaged? I always tought that is was my speakers sounding muffled in the direct stand, but the fact you have measured this might point out to a 4520 flaw...
I have had inconsistencies in REW measurements in the past so even I myself don't feel comfortable accepting it 100% But I don't use direct as I think it sounds terrible! It is something with direct preset why it is that way.
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post #8718 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Yveke View Post
Well, that seems strange as I can defintely hear a distinct difference in bass output, and it seems more than just the higher volume due to more speakers. With multi channel stereo I need to bring soruce input level down by -10db to be equal to the Stereo mode output. Stereo with FR/FL(KEF IQ90) + my 2 subs seems very thin compared to the 9.2 output with multichannel stereo. Do you all experience the same i.e. A/B listen, not just the theory?
I just ran a quick test and here are the results:

- No difference in volume or bass output when running either Stereo or PLII Music.

- Direct turns off any output to the subs (as expected)

- Multi-channel Stereo seems to be at a volume level approx. +10dB from the Stereo and PLII Music modes.

I see no reason why you would think that bass output in Stereo is "thin", other than the louder output in Multi-channel Stereo.
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post #8719 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga View Post
Hmmz -12db on 120 hz?? Wow that's extreme and might explain my problem with the direct modi ... When listening in normal stereo do you prefer with or without audyssey engaged? I always tought that is was my speakers sounding muffled in the direct stand, but the fact you have measured this might point out to a 4520 flaw...
As mentioned in my previous post, there is no output to the subs in Direct mode, so all bass is coming from the mains. This would account for the lower bass measurements. I always prefer to have Audyssey engaged, regardless of the listening mode. Audyssey corrects for issues in your listening room, so why would you not want to have it engaged? With Audyssey on, you can experiment with DEQ, of course, and choose whether to leave it on.
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I just ran a quick test and here are the results:

- No difference in volume or bass output when running either Stereo or PLII Music.

- Direct turns off any output to the subs (as expected)

- Multi-channel Stereo seems to be at a volume level approx. +10dB from the Stereo and PLII Music modes.

I see no reason why you would think that bass output in Stereo is "thin", other than the louder output in Multi-channel Stereo.
Thanks for checking... indeed the +10db is indeed what I figured out and hence the -10DB on the "network streaming" source input level to avoid crazy differences in volume between sources. I would agree on the bass perception due to the +10 db, but when I crank the volume to +10 DB with Stereo mode, it is perceived as lacking vs the multi channel stereo mode. I tested it back and forth for several hours with some music tracks...as -ahum- for example "billy jean - Michael Jackson"... I know I know don't judge me for the music pick, but it has a nice solid bass track to help my bad sound memory for A/B testing.

Must experiment some more with the front speaker placements, settings, etc... but a shame one can only change audessey settings per input and not speaker trim levels for example.
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post #8721 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
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Leave the speaker trims as Audyssey calculated them, and then forget Multi-channel Stereo. It really is a poor choice if you want to listen to music accurately.
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Rats!! I missed the FedEx person with my 4520. Now I won't be able to get it until Saturday since i need them to drop it off at FedEx Kinkos so I can pick it up at my leisure. At least this will give me time to prep the area so I can dust and make sure everything is still labeled. Now I need to find my tripod since I will need it for both the audio and video calibration.

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post #8723 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
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Rats!! I missed the FedEx person with my 4520. Now I won't be able to get it until Saturday since i need them to drop it off at FedEx Kinkos so I can pick it up at my leisure. At least this will give me time to prep the area so I can dust and make sure everything is still labeled. Now I need to find my tripod since I will need it for both the audio and video calibration.

At least now you have something fun to do this Sat. - set up your new 4520 - woo hoo !!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I just ran a quick test and here are the results:

- No difference in volume or bass output when running either Stereo or PLII Music.

- Direct turns off any output to the subs (as expected)

- Multi-channel Stereo seems to be at a volume level approx. +10dB from the Stereo and PLII Music modes.

I see no reason why you would think that bass output in Stereo is "thin", other than the louder output in Multi-channel Stereo.
"as expected" Just curious Jerry. Why does direct do that to sub output? I never knew it did officially but my ears have heard it
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Direct mode bypasses all processing, including bass management. So no bass will be routed from another channel to the subwoofer.

So if a signal comes in as 2ch stereo, only the front L/R speakers will make noise. (the only exception would be if you enable LFE+MAIN which engages double bass).

If a 5.1 signal is played in direct mode the subwoofer WILL make noise because there is a dedicated LFE signal present in the soundtrack. But the other five speakers will play full range signals.
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Exactly as Batpig says. For my test, I had bass set to "LFE", not "LFE+Main", which is why the subs were silent. I was testing with a 2.0 signal, with no LFE content.
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Ok so I am curious what exactly the "Stage width" and Stage Height" for the wides and heights do in the Audio>Audyssey menu section. What do you guys set them on? +the most what does it do? And - the most what does it do?
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They are simply level controls for the height / wide speakers when DSX is engaged. I believe the full range corresponds to +/- 3db
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post #8729 of 8730 Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
They are simply level controls for the height / wide speakers when DSX is engaged. I believe the full range corresponds to +/- 3db
You mean adjusting the trim/volume/level on those speakers? Just to be sure BP
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^^
Correct. Each setting simply simultaneously adjusts both DSX Width or DSX Height speakers up or down in volume. Recommended is the default 0 setting.

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