The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 295 - AVS Forum
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post #8821 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
Hey everybody, I just bought a 4520 yesterday and got it set up and wanted to get a few opinions about my Audyssey results. I have a simple 5.1 system for an apartment that has a slightly larger than normal living room. My mains are PSB Stratus Silver's which I bought in the early 90's which still sound great, PSB center, PSB Alpha C for the surrounds and a Definitive Technology Supercube 8000 sub. The Stratus Silvers are bi-wired as well. After running the audyssey program it set the silvers as large and full band with a crossover of 40hz. It set the center and surrounds at 60hz. I went back and manually changed it from large to small. Someone once told me that if you bi-wire your speakers you should set them as large. Also should I change the crossover from 40hz to say 80hz? My right front speaker is right next to a thickly draped curtain, about 18 inches away from it which is why I think it was set at 40hz to begin with. Any opinions much aprreciated!
c)2. Why do I often see advice to raise the Crossovers to 80Hz?

c)3. I have big tower speakers at the front. Shouldn't I set these to Large'?
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post #8822 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 05:44 AM
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elementary.

Yes it's there. I just figured it was an option for someone in a situation that needs it. I don't use that or the other option that reduces the sounds.

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post #8823 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 07:15 AM
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Ich glaube, du wolltest vielmehr "elementar" sagen, nicht wahr, mein lieber Watson?
lol, and I watched Sherlock's original movie from the 70's yesterday A bit slow, but still a classic with a nice referral to Nessie.



Sorry, back on topic!
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post #8824 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 12:08 PM
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If you have a subwoofer in your system you need to set ALL of your speakers to small. When you run the audyssey program most receivers will set your mains to large for some reason.
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post #8825 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 12:22 PM
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Howdy JD, I went back and set it to 120 like you said. Just found out something about my DT Supercube 8000. It has no bypass switch on the back. I called up DT and they said to raise the low pass filter to its max setting of 150 and that would put it on bypass. Now I'm just wondering if I should run audyssey again???
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post #8826 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
If you have a subwoofer in your system you need to set ALL of your speakers to small. When you run the audyssey program most receivers will set your mains to large for some reason.
Background info from the Audyssey FAQ:

c)3. I have big tower speakers at the front. Shouldn't I set these to Large'?
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post #8827 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
If you have a subwoofer in your system you need to set ALL of your speakers to small. When you run the audyssey program most receivers will set your mains to large for some reason.
If the speakers are able to go < 50Hz, the AVR will generally set the speakers to LARGE regardless of whether there is a dedicated sub in the setup.

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post #8828 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
Howdy JD, I went back and set it to 120 like you said. Just found out something about my DT Supercube 8000. It has no bypass switch on the back. I called up DT and they said to raise the low pass filter to its max setting of 150 and that would put it on bypass. Now I'm just wondering if I should run audyssey again???
You're generally going to want to run Audyssey a few times over a period of a few weeks anyway using somewhat different mic positions to see if there is any noticeable difference or improvement, otherwise if it was at 120Hz, then no reason to run it again if you prefer not to.

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post #8829 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 01:10 PM
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Hey JD, I had afeeling you might say that so I just got through running the audyssey again, but this time it set the LPF at 80hz so do you think I should still set it to 120hz?
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post #8830 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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^^
Are you sure the AVR made that change or had you set it to 80Hz previously as generally this setting won't be changed by the AVR? As I previously noted there is very little > 80Hz LFE so leaving it there isn't going to matter much. That's actually where I set mine.

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post #8831 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
Hey JD, I had afeeling you might say that so I just got through running the audyssey again, but this time it set the LPF at 80hz so do you think I should still set it to 120hz?
Audyssey doesn't touch the LPF of LFE.

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?
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post #8832 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Are you sure the AVR made that change or had you set it to 80Hz previously as generally this setting won't be changed by the AVR? As I previously noted there is very little > 80Hz LFE so leaving it there isn't going to matter much. That's actually where I set mine.
I set mine at 80Hz too. It seems to remove a little bloat that is present when it is set at 120Hz.
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post #8833 of 9055 Old 07-21-2014, 02:53 PM
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You're right JD, I think I remember setting the LPF to 80hz myself because that was what I had my mains set at. I'm going to set it back to 120hz like you suggested before. Thanks again!
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post #8834 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 11:07 AM
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Audyssey and Zone questions...

I just got a Denon AVR-4520CI... Liking it so far but do have a few questions.

I have the following setup:

Front Left/Right: SVS Ultra Towers
Front Left/Right Height: SVS SBS-01 Bookshelf speakers
Center: SVS SCS-01 Center Speaker

Rear Left/Right surround: SVS SBS-01 Bookshelf speakers

SUBS: 1x SVS PB12-NSD/2 and 1x SVS PC-13 Ultra on each end of my front wall next to the ultra towers

1.) During Audyssey setup, I cannot figure out how to set my speakers as rear surrounds. It makes me tell it I have left and right side speakers in order to tell it I have rear surrounds. I eventually gave up and moved my left/right rear surrounds to the plugs labeled surround L/R instead. Is that right or is there a way to make it work w/o having to tell it you have surrounds that based on the image are mid room left and right?

2.) During Audyssey it determined my subs were both way too loud and had me dial them back substantially (-10 on the pc-13 ultra and 1 dot from all the way down on the NSD/2). After audyssey was done, in order to hear any bass at all from music, volume had to be pretty much all the way up. I spoke with SVS about this and they said it tries to get everything even at 75db.. so that being said, should I just go in and manually adjust sub level back to 0 perhaps or what would you guys recommend there?

3.) Another Audyssey item I ran into was it said my left/right main front speakers (SVS Ultra Towers) were out of phase. I've doubled checked and they are definitely not wired wrong. I tried reversing the wires as it mentioned but that made the sound very muffled so I switched it back. In the end I told it to ignore it and continued on but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that needed to be corrected? They sound fine to me otherwise.

4.) Zone question... I have a single HDMI cable ran to a 2nd room that plugs directly into a TV. I previously used this to have zone 2 output from a X3000 that I was using originally. On the 4520, to do that does it need to be plugged into Zone4 I'm guessing or how does it work with this one?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Last edited by chr1z; 07-24-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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post #8835 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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1) If you only have two surrounds, they are surrounds. Period. It doesn't matter if you have them placed poorly behind you, as far as the processing is concerned you need to have the first two surround channel and THEN you can add surround backs.

2) Before adjusting the sub volumes, make sure that you have manually adjusted your bass management settings. The likeliest cause of a lack of bass after calibration is that your FR/FL speakers were set to LARGE. Go to the manual speaker config and adjust them to SMALL and then up the crossover to 60-80Hz so bass is getting redirected to the subs. At that point you can adjust the sub volumes to taste.

3) Ignore it if the wiring is correct. Sometimes the mic gets a "false positive" because of acoustics in the room or perhaps the way the speakers are designed.

4) Correct, the HDMI output is Zone 4 on the 4520.

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post #8836 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 12:26 PM
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Cool.. thank you very much for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
1) If you only have two surrounds, they are surrounds. Period. It doesn't matter if you have them placed poorly behind you, as far as the processing is concerned you need to have the first two surround channel and THEN you can add surround backs.

2) Before adjusting the sub volumes, make sure that you have manually adjusted your bass management settings. The likeliest cause of a lack of bass after calibration is that your FR/FL speakers were set to LARGE. Go to the manual speaker config and adjust them to SMALL and then up the crossover to 60-80Hz so bass is getting redirected to the subs. At that point you can adjust the sub volumes to taste.

3) Ignore it if the wiring is correct. Sometimes the mic gets a "false positive" because of acoustics in the room or perhaps the way the speakers are designed.

4) Correct, the HDMI output is Zone 4 on the 4520.
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post #8837 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 01:21 PM
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Hey guy's it says in the manual that if you set your front speakers to small it converts the sub's to one sub not two like I have, is this true. I thank that's what I read I will double check when I get home but any body know anything about this.
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post #8838 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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You must be confused about something. Regardless of what settings you have, there is only ONE signal sent out to the two subwoofer outputs.

With XT32+SubEQ HT, the two subs are separately leveled and delayed, but they are equalized as a SUMMED response and (together) they only receiver ONE channel of information (LFE + redirected bass).
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post #8839 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 01:30 PM
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Now I understand that. Thanks a lot batpig for the quick responce
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post #8840 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 08:08 PM
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I hope I don't sound like a cretin asking this question:

I have been sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy the 4520; actually have been waiting since about 2011 to buy it once I started reading reports of Denon replacing the '11 series. But business got pretty busy and other things came up and the last thing I was thinking of since the 4520 came out was replacing my aging receiver. Now, I am ready to purchase but since I know Denon tends to replace every 2-4 years, I didn't want to buy the 4520 and then hear about 6 weeks from now that Denon will be soon coming out with a "5530." I know that I will be very happy with the 4520, but is there any 'rumor' that Denon will be soon coming out with a newer flagship? Again .. sorry to ask this question, but I've really been out of the loop on Denon AVR's since early 2013 (back when this thread had about 20 pages) and I really have no idea what Denon has been up to since then.
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Denon has already announced several new models that will be available this fall. The 4520 will lose its place as the flagship AVR. Since the new models are only several months away, you may be better off postponing your decision for now. Worst case, if the new models do not appeal to you, great deals on the 4520 will be available.
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post #8842 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Denon has already announced several new models that will be available this fall. The 4520 will lose its place as the flagship AVR. Since the new models are only several months away, you may be better off postponing your decision for now. Worst case, if the new models do not appeal to you, great deals on the 4520 will be available.

Thanks, man! I kind of remembered that Denon used the Fall for announcements and new products, I just didn't know if THIS Fall there would be any announcements. I at least would like to see what they have lined up before I decide. I still may very well stick with the 4520. Do you remember any links or know what I can Google to read up on those coming models?

N/M: I just found this: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/De...for-1999.shtml

I may very well wait and take the plunge on the 5200 at $1999 SRP. But the 4520 is still a sweet beast.

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post #8843 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 09:50 PM
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Thanks, man! I kind of remembered that Denon used the Fall for announcements and new products, I just didn't know if THIS Fall there would be any announcements. I at least would like to see what they have lined up before I decide. I still may very well stick with the 4520. Do you remember any links or know what I can Google to read up on those coming models?

N/M: I just found this: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/De...for-1999.shtml

I may very well wait and take the plunge on the 5200 at $1999 SRP. But the 4520 is still a sweet beast.
The 140 watt/ch AVR-X5200W is not a flagship model, that is the 150 watt/ch AVR-X7200W which has the multi-channel analog inputs, superior amps/PS, DDSC-HD32, 32-bit/192 kHz DAC's, Multi Channel AL32 Processing. AVR-X5200W (Sept), AVR-X7200W (January)

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post #8844 of 9055 Old 07-24-2014, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLnut View Post
I hope I don't sound like a cretin asking this question:

I have been sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy the 4520; actually have been waiting since about 2011 to buy it once I started reading reports of Denon replacing the '11 series. But business got pretty busy and other things came up and the last thing I was thinking of since the 4520 came out was replacing my aging receiver. Now, I am ready to purchase but since I know Denon tends to replace every 2-4 years, I didn't want to buy the 4520 and then hear about 6 weeks from now that Denon will be soon coming out with a "5530." I know that I will be very happy with the 4520, but is there any 'rumor' that Denon will be soon coming out with a newer flagship? Again .. sorry to ask this question, but I've really been out of the loop on Denon AVR's since early 2013 (back when this thread had about 20 pages) and I really have no idea what Denon has been up to since then.
Yes, a new flagship is due in January - the AVR-X7200W. It looks like the MSRP of that model will be around $2800 to $3000. There's also another model coming that fills in the gap between the AVR-X4000 and the AVR-4520CI -- that model is the AVR-X5200W and will street for around $2K.

You need to decide if the new features (mainly Dolby Atmos) of the upcoming models are worth it to you because, if not, right now is a great time to get a 4520 with prices where they are. The 4520 shares many of the features of the X7200W like AL32 processing and a upgraded amp section.
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post #8845 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
You need to decide if the new features (mainly Dolby Atmos) of the upcoming models are worth it to you because, if not, right now is a great time to get a 4520 with prices where they are. The 4520 shares many of the features of the X7200W like AL32 processing and a upgraded amp section.
I upgraded from a 4311 to a 4520 for DTS NEO:X 11.2. I still only have 2 or 3 NEO:X Blu-rays. Atmos can wait, especially for $3k. Also, most new discs are mastered in DTS.
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post #8846 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 09:00 AM
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I upgraded from a 4311 to a 4520 for DTS NEO:X 11.2. I still only have 2 or 3 NEO:X Blu-rays. Atmos can wait, especially for $3k. Also, most new discs are mastered in DTS.
Recently Sound and Vision did a poll to establish the likelihood of people being even keen on Atmos. The results were as follows.

59% 5.1/5.2 channels

30% 7.1/7.2 channels

6% No surround for me. Good old-fashioned 2-channel stereo is all I need.

3% 9.1/9.2 channels

2% 11.1/11.2 or more channels

The point to come away from all this was vast majority of people are not into any system beyond 7.2, which entails no matter how desperate the industry is, your average home theater store will have a rough go convincing anyone on Atmos virtues, over good speakers selected along with room treatments.

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post #8847 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Recently Sound and Vision did a poll to establish the likelihood of people being even keen on Atmos. The results were as follows.

59% 5.1/5.2 channels

30% 7.1/7.2 channels

6% No surround for me. Good old-fashioned 2-channel stereo is all I need.

3% 9.1/9.2 channels

2% 11.1/11.2 or more channels

The point to come away from all this was vast majority of people are not into any system beyond 7.2, which entails no matter how desperate the industry is, your average home theater store will have a rough go convincing anyone on Atmos virtues, over good speakers selected along with room treatments.

I guess I'm a 2%er !
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post #8848 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Yes, a new flagship is due in January - the AVR-X7200W. It looks like the MSRP of that model will be around $2800 to $3000. There's also another model coming that fills in the gap between the AVR-X4000 and the AVR-4520CI -- that model is the AVR-X5200W and will street for around $2K.

You need to decide if the new features (mainly Dolby Atmos) of the upcoming models are worth it to you because, if not, right now is a great time to get a 4520 with prices where they are. The 4520 shares many of the features of the X7200W like AL32 processing and a upgraded amp section.

You can't beat the current price ( give us a call at AV Science ). And, considering I own a 4520, IMO, you can't beat this receiver. 11.2 with NEO:X is excellent, and all I need right now. I'll wait and see what happens with Atmos.
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post #8849 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
You can't beat the current price ( give us a call at AV Science ). And, considering I own a 4520, IMO, you can't beat this receiver. 11.2 with NEO:X is excellent, and all I need right now. I'll wait and see what happens with Atmos.
Very true, and DTS rules Blu-rays anyway, as Dreamliner posted not Dolby unless you buy nothing but Disney titles.

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post #8850 of 9055 Old 07-25-2014, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I upgraded from a 4311 to a 4520 for DTS NEO:X 11.2. I still only have 2 or 3 NEO:X Blu-rays. Atmos can wait, especially for $3k. Also, most new discs are mastered in DTS.
There are some pretty key differences/corrections though...

Neo:X is primarily a surround expansion algorithm, it's not a discrete content delivery system. It's not a cinema technology either, it's just for surround expansion (matrixed) at home. So there is not a stream of Neo:X mastered content ready to be translated from cinema to home. If a studio wants to create a "discrete" Neo:X mix they have to intentionally take the time to create the matrix encoded mix for home.

Atmos on the other hand IS a cinema delivery system, and is already gaining wide acceptance in the pro film industry. The adoption rate for Atmos in cinemas has been faster for that of 5.1 digital back in the day, and many mixing studios are investing in the object based mixing hardware. There are going to be a LOT of object based film mixes in Cinema, and the scalability of an object based system like Atmos means it's relatively easy to package that for home delivery within existing Dolby Digital codecs. So the lack of "discrete content" for Neo:X really has zero bearing on the prospects for content with native Atmos soundtracks. Within a year (probably a few months really) there will be far more options for Atmos content at home then there will ever be for "native" Neo:X.

In that respect, it's much more analagous to 3D than Audyssey DSX or Neo:X in terms of how quickly adoption in cinema will spur the quick availability of content and hardware for the home user.

Also, DTS is not a "mastering" format, DTS-HD is a compression codec. Whether a studio choose to deliver a Blu-ray in DTS vs. Dolby TrueHD has no impact on the mastering or sound quality. They just use DTS because it's cheaper and easier (straight from industry pros like FilmMixer who post here). When they are already mastering the Atmos mix for theaters, encoding that particular BD in TrueHD for home delivery is mandatory and they will switch when they want to provide that content.

Finally, with respect to the "niche" aspect, that is definitely true to a degree, but remember that Dolby has thought about this and designed the upward-firing Atmos speakers which will allow anyone who has room for 5.1 to have Atmos (5.1.2 minimum) with no additional footprint. Obviously it's expensive now but within a few years it will trickle down to cheaper receivers and you can be sure companies like Onkyo are going to sell their HTIB setups with Atmos-enabled speakers packaged in. Shoot, Onkyo already has it in their new mid-priced ($500-600) 7ch receivers, it won't be long at all before an $800-1000 Onkyo or Yamaha HTIB setup at Best Buy is going to have upward firing modules built into the front L/R speakers for a simple 5.1.2 setup that will work for any "J6P" 5.1 channel living room buyer.
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