The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 297 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
Sam S's Avatar Sam S 07:47 PM 07-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post
while I doubt there will be any way to update the 4520 to do atmos. I'm sure they could.....
And I'm pretty sure they can't. Seems like Atmos + Audyssey requires 2X the processors/processing power that the 4520 has onboard.

johnny dollar's Avatar johnny dollar 09:34 PM 07-27-2014
Please accept my apologies if this is answered somewhere in the thread but after a half hour of searching I'm just more confused than ever.

I just strung an HDMI cable from the 4520 into another room where I connected it to a small tv. It was my thought from what I got out of the manual that Zone 4 would pass thru whatever source I chose to assign to it and send it thru that cable into the 2nd tv when the 4520 was in standby mode. But in standby mode I get nothing.

I finally figured out that I can get a signal when I power ON Zone 4. But then the 4520 is no longer in standby and has to be on like 24 hours a day unless I want to keep running back and forth from one room to another every time I turn a tv on or off.

Is there a way to get a signal out of Zone 4 while the 4520 is in the typical standby mode (no display, red light over power button)? If I have to leave the 4520 on 24 hours a day I don't think that's at all worthwhile for the wear and tear or electricity cost.

Thank you so much for your help on this.
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV 09:46 PM 07-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
And I'm pretty sure they can't. Seems like Atmos + Audyssey requires 2X the processors/processing power that the 4520 has onboard.
No big loss, figure you don't want to mess with initial implementations anyway, it always improves with the next model, just look at how HDMI interfaces and DSP usage has evolved with each new model. Does it ever stop.
batpig's Avatar batpig 10:35 PM 07-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny dollar View Post
Please accept my apologies if this is answered somewhere in the thread but after a half hour of searching I'm just more confused than ever.

I just strung an HDMI cable from the 4520 into another room where I connected it to a small tv. It was my thought from what I got out of the manual that Zone 4 would pass thru whatever source I chose to assign to it and send it thru that cable into the 2nd tv when the 4520 was in standby mode. But in standby mode I get nothing.

I finally figured out that I can get a signal when I power ON Zone 4. But then the 4520 is no longer in standby and has to be on like 24 hours a day unless I want to keep running back and forth from one room to another every time I turn a tv on or off.

Is there a way to get a signal out of Zone 4 while the 4520 is in the typical standby mode (no display, red light over power button)? If I have to leave the 4520 on 24 hours a day I don't think that's at all worthwhile for the wear and tear or electricity cost.

Thank you so much for your help on this.
Zone 4 is an active matrix, not a standby pass through. If you want Zone 4 to be on, it has to be on. It's not the passive pass through that you get with the main zone outputs. But in terms of energy use / cost I would bet it's quite minimal, the main zone circuitry and amps don't have to be on.

If you don't need the independent source control you can use the second main zone HDMI output and designate it as the standby option. But you can't actively select the source that is passing through (setting is either one designated source or "last" source) and you basically have to choose between having the main zone on or the second zone pass thru, not both simultaneously.

If you want the flexibility of a full matrix with independent source and power for the two zones, you have to use Zone 4.

All that said.... why do you have to leave it on 24 hrs a day? In terms of running back and forth between rooms to turn power on or off.... Um, you have heard of this thing called the internet right? You do know tour receiver can be controlled by it, right?
johnny dollar's Avatar johnny dollar 07:17 AM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Um, you have heard of this thing called the internet right? You do know tour receiver can be controlled by it, right?
I don't know about that. Do you really think that internet thing is going to catch on?

Finally I understand how zone 4 works. Thank you so much for clearing it up. Plus it's suggested to me another possibility (teach my RF remote the on/off zone 4 commands).
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt 05:44 PM 07-28-2014
I'm thinking about adding front heights to my setup to take advantage of the two extra channels of amplification the 4520 has over the 3808 it replaced. WIth my setup, front heights are all I can add. I don't have the space for front wides.

I currently have a 7.1 setup using an SVS subwoofer from 2003 along with a seven speaker SVS system from 2008. My space is limited for front heights because there is only one spot I can mount them on the wall where the stud is. And one of those spots is above a window. So I was looking at the Axiom M3 bookshelf speaker to use for front heights.

With the MultEQ XT32, will that do a decent job with the Axioms and the SVS speakers in my system?(with just the SVS speakers it sounds superb) Will those Axiom speakers even work well for front height speakers?
batpig's Avatar batpig 06:02 PM 07-28-2014
I think they will be fine. Axiom speakers should be pretty neutral and close to flat so it shouldn't be hard for XT32 to tweak them to the target curve. And furthermore the height speakers probably don't stick out that much anyway so you'd be unlikely to notice whatever small differences are left.

Side note, but if you are going to put money into improving the setup, what about a second SVS subwoofer instead? You can use the same rationale ("taking advantage" of an unused feature of the 4520, namely SubEQ) and adding a second sub should yield pretty signficant improvements in smoothness of bass response across the listening zone.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt 06:07 PM 07-28-2014
I would love to add a second sub but I am in a condo. With just the one sub and the sub-sonic bass it produces, things can really start rattling. Fortunately I don't have to worry too much about the volume since I'm in the basement condo. But if I added a second SVS subwoofer I think that would push it a little too far.

Although next on my list would be to just replace my existing sub with a newer SVS sub.

Thanks for the comment about the Axioms. I wasn't really sure if they would work or not. I was completely resigned to stick with a 7.1 setup until I got the 4520. And with the excellent results I can hear in my current setup I really want to try and take advantage of the two extra channels of amplification. Plus I need to test it out soon anyway since it's a refurb. If there is an issue during the first 30 days, Denon covers shipping both ways to fix it.
-Caesar- 09:57 PM 07-28-2014
Hi,

I purchased the AVR-4520 yesterday together with the DBT-3313. When I told the shop assistent I want to play my 1TB Flac files on the 4520, he told me I would also need to purchase the DNP-720 since that would enhance the quality. Ok, I purchased that too.
When I told that my mate, he said that is rubbish since the 4520 could do the same as the DNP-720. I should better purchase a NAS HDD, load all Flac files there and connect that HDD to the 4520 directly via Ethernet.
Is that correct or what would be the best connection to the 4520? I don't mind having the DNP-720 additionally connected if that produces better quality output.

Can anyone recommend a good (but not too expensive) NAS HDD (if possible connecting wireless to the 4520)?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Cheers
Caesar
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 03:50 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I would love to add a second sub but I am in a condo. With just the one sub and the sub-sonic bass it produces, things can really start rattling. Fortunately I don't have to worry too much about the volume since I'm in the basement condo. But if I added a second SVS subwoofer I think that would push it a little too far.

Although next on my list would be to just replace my existing sub with a newer SVS sub.

Thanks for the comment about the Axioms. I wasn't really sure if they would work or not. I was completely resigned to stick with a 7.1 setup until I got the 4520. And with the excellent results I can hear in my current setup I really want to try and take advantage of the two extra channels of amplification. Plus I need to test it out soon anyway since it's a refurb. If there is an issue during the first 30 days, Denon covers shipping both ways to fix it.
You can use the Audyssey LFC setting to tame the lower bass frequencies so as not to disturb the neighbors.
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kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701 05:33 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
When one is setting up a home audio system not everything is about movies.
Nor did I say it was. I said Atmos has been designed for movies.
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 05:39 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Caesar- View Post
Hi,

I purchased the AVR-4520 yesterday together with the DBT-3313. When I told the shop assistent I want to play my 1TB Flac files on the 4520, he told me I would also need to purchase the DNP-720 since that would enhance the quality. Ok, I purchased that too.
When I told that my mate, he said that is rubbish since the 4520 could do the same as the DNP-720. I should better purchase a NAS HDD, load all Flac files there and connect that HDD to the 4520 directly via Ethernet.
Is that correct or what would be the best connection to the 4520? I don't mind having the DNP-720 additionally connected if that produces better quality output.

Can anyone recommend a good (but not too expensive) NAS HDD (if possible connecting wireless to the 4520)?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Cheers
Caesar
Your mate is correct. Send the DNP-720 back as it is redundant. I'm sure one of the forum members can make a NAS HDD recommendation.
-Caesar- 07:45 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Your mate is correct. Send the DNP-720 back as it is redundant. I'm sure one of the forum members can make a NAS HDD recommendation.
Thanks mate.
The DNP is returned and I bought a Buffalo LS210D 3TB HDD.
I hope that's ok?

Cheers
Caesar
batpig's Avatar batpig 11:23 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I would love to add a second sub but I am in a condo. With just the one sub and the sub-sonic bass it produces, things can really start rattling. Fortunately I don't have to worry too much about the volume since I'm in the basement condo. But if I added a second SVS subwoofer I think that would push it a little too far.
Here's the thing though -- adding a second sub does NOT make the bass louder. Sure, you would have more headroom if you were inclined to crank it, but remember that once you calibrate the system the sub channel (combined output) will still be calibrated at 75dB just like the other channels. So if you listen at -25dB volume, the calibrated subwoofer channel would be producing the same volume whether you had one, two, or eight subs.

Now, counterintuitively, adding a second sub might make things LESS obtrusive in terms of rattling and neighbor disturbance. Remember that a second sub will smooth out the room response -- you have will fewer big peaks and nulls as you move around the room because the two subs, in different locations, are energizing different room modes. It's possible (likely even) that the smoother, more consistent bass response throughout the room would result in knocking down a nasty peak or two that are exacerbating certain rattles and rumbling.

Plus, of course, as JD notes you can always use the LFC setting for when you really want to cut it out.
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 01:41 PM 07-29-2014
Buffalo's LS210D supports DLNA. See http://www.buffalotech.com/content/f.../LS210D_DS.pdf
laulau's Avatar laulau 04:35 PM 07-29-2014
^^^^

Should be good to go then. Hopefully, the Buffalo's version of Twonky is better than the borked version running on my WDTV LH, it can be "unpredictable" when building its media library database.
-Caesar- 11:21 PM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
^^^^

Should be good to go then. Hopefully, the Buffalo's version of Twonky is better than the borked version running on my WDTV LH, it can be "unpredictable" when building its media library database.

Hi,

The Buffalo brand was recommended to me by Denon.

Thanks again everybody and have a wonderful day.

Cheers
Caesar
Figarou's Avatar Figarou 10:09 AM 07-31-2014
When the X7200W finally comes out, I was thinking of using the 4520CI as a power amp for the other channels. Batpig told me that was a bad idea in another thread. He said I should get an Emotiva XPA-3. I decided on the XPA-5 after doing some research. It should arrive today. I'd like for it to power the main 5.1 speakers while the 4520CI powers the surround back, wide and height. I noticed in "Custom" mode the FRONT, SURR BACK, and HEIGHT can be changed to any other output. CENTER and SURROUND can't. For the setup I need, I change FRONT to WIDE, correct? This will be my 1st time doing this and I want to make sure I got it right.
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 10:19 AM 07-31-2014
^^
No reason to as there is a dedicated set of Front Wide speaker posts. Just set AMP ASSIGN to "Discrete 11.1CH" and select the "Front" pre-outs.
batpig's Avatar batpig 10:24 AM 07-31-2014
There is no need to use the "Custom" amp assign setting at all. That's only needed when there is some non-standard config that you can't achieve through one of the stock amp assign settings.

Just put it in 11ch amp assign mode -- in this mode, all the pre-outs are "hot" so just hook up the amp to the five channels you want to power. The only thing you have to change is the "Main Pre-Amps" sub setting that tells the receiver the FIRST two channels that will be externally amp'd -- in your case just choose "Front" and it will automatically reassign those two amps to the Front Height speakers because it knows your Front L/R are externally amp'd. Then just hook up normally and run Audyssey.
Figarou's Avatar Figarou 10:38 AM 07-31-2014
Ok....thanks. I'll try it when the XPA-5 arrives later today.

Once the X7200W is out, I'll do the same.
WHATTHEDILEO's Avatar WHATTHEDILEO 10:42 AM 07-31-2014
I'm mapping out my power requirements, and wondering if anyone thinks the 4520 will consume more than 500w if I'm using an EXTERNAL amplifier for the main three channels.

I am powering LEFT/CENTER/RIGHT with an Emotiva XPA-3 Gen2, so I'm quite sure I will never come close to the 780w maximum power consumption spec.

I may hook it up to a Kill-a-Watt to see its instantaneous power consumption.
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 10:50 AM 07-31-2014
^^
Likely never use > 150W on average even with front 3 powered.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt 11:25 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHATTHEDILEO View Post
I'm mapping out my power requirements, and wondering if anyone thinks the 4520 will consume more than 500w if I'm using an EXTERNAL amplifier for the main three channels.

I am powering LEFT/CENTER/RIGHT with an Emotiva XPA-3 Gen2, so I'm quite sure I will never come close to the 780w maximum power consumption spec.

I may hook it up to a Kill-a-Watt to see its instantaneous power consumption.
In my 7.1 setup my 4520 usually draws around 130 to 140 watts. At least that is what my UPS shows.
Sam S's Avatar Sam S 11:37 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Likely never use > 150W on average even with front 3 powered.
Yep. What pulls power is extreme bass, i.e. subs, or giant front speakers with full range bass-heavy music. Could never happen with movie soundtracks.
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV 06:32 PM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Yep. What pulls power is extreme bass, i.e. subs, or giant front speakers with full range bass-heavy music. Could never happen with movie soundtracks.
On that note, if you are using powered subwoofers, then you no longer using the 4520 CI to reproduce that bass heavy reproduction.
bgoering's Avatar bgoering 07:06 PM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
...
Just put it in 11ch amp assign mode -- in this mode, all the pre-outs are "hot" so just hook up the amp to the five channels you want to power.
Hi batpig - this caught my attention. I am about to start wiring up my "Multipurpose/Media" room (not really a true HT). I have the 4520 to power a 7.1 system in this room. The room is the bottom floor of a two story pool house with the wife's space on the 2nd floor. To power the 5.1 speakers in her space I have an antique (probably 18-20 years old) Marantz SR5000. The idea at present is to use zone 4 on the 4520 with an adapter that splits the audio off from the HDMI that goes to either optical or coax in on the Marantz, then the Marantz will only be utilized as a power amp. This plan seems to work relatively OK so far in my testing, except she won't have access to the nice airplay, Internet radio, and other network features of the 4520 from zone 4.

I have thus far been under the impression that when the speakers were on in the 4520 the pre-outs were dead, and vice-versa. Are there other modes (like hopefully 7.1 + zone 2) that leaves the pre-outs "hot?" Failing that, can I use that 11ch amp assign mode to do the same thing as 7.1 + zone 2? Also seeing as I only have a single sub in my downstairs setup - will the sub 2 out be able to drive the sub input on the Marantz? I do have 6 channel (5.1) inputs also on the Marantz.

Probably all stupid questions and I should stick to my likely simpler original plan

Thanks - Bill
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 07:27 PM 07-31-2014
^^
The main zone speaker posts and pre-outs are always "hot" if the main zone is powered on. In fact some have placed a mirrored 5.1 setup in another room as a result using both the speaker posts and pre-outs.
batpig's Avatar batpig 07:31 PM 07-31-2014
That said if I was in your place I would swap the Marantz for a cheap 5.1 HDMI receiver. You can find something for $150 used without much trouble. Then just run Zone 4 HDMI to an HDMI input on the receiver and call it a day. Eliminate all that extra complexity.
bgoering's Avatar bgoering 07:47 PM 07-31-2014
Thanks jd and batpig - food for thought
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