The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 302 - AVS Forum
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post #9031 of 9055 Old 08-16-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Is this a common thing with Denon?
No.
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post #9032 of 9055 Old 08-16-2014, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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It was discovered over in the Audyssey thread a ways back that Onkyo/Integra dropped the polarity check portion of auto setup a few years ago. Apparently they decided the number of "false positives" was too confusing to end users so they just canned it and figured people would be smart enough to wire the speakers right.

Short story: if you have confirmed wiring is correct just hit "skip" and move on.
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post #9033 of 9055 Old 08-16-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It was discovered over in the Audyssey thread a ways back that Onkyo/Integra dropped the polarity check portion of auto setup a few years ago. Apparently they decided the number of "false positives" was too confusing to end users so they just canned it and figured people would be smart enough to wire the speakers right.

Short story: if you have confirmed wiring is correct just hit "skip" and move on.

Oh ok well maybe that's what explains the story with my old Integra.


Just looks horrid to see the two big RED X's!


Maybe this is due to my two wides not being in the same family as all my other Klipsch THX speakers.
They are two tiny satellite Cambridge speakers.
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post #9034 of 9055 Old 08-16-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Oh ok well maybe that's what explains the story with my old Integra.


Just looks horrid to see the two big RED X's!


Maybe this is due to my two wides not being in the same family as all my other Klipsch THX speakers.
They are two tiny satellite Cambridge speakers.
You need wide speakers to be the same (at least in the same family range) as your main L/R speakers.
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post #9035 of 9055 Old 08-16-2014, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
You need wide speakers to be the same (at least in the same family range) as your main L/R speakers.

Yes I know that but in my situation its impossible, I need small speaker enclosures.
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post #9036 of 9055 Old 08-17-2014, 03:44 AM
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But that is still pointless. If you have enough amps between internal and external to power 13 channels (11 + 2 biamped) all you need is an RCA splitter and you can "biamp" to your hearts content with the external amps. I don't understand the advantage of biamping with internal amps, it's just splitting the signal inside the box vs outside.
Exactly. And as passive biamping is pretty useless anyway, the whole thing is futile anyway.
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post #9037 of 9055 Old 08-17-2014, 04:31 PM
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What does the reference off set need to be set at for 2channel stereo listening from a CD player?
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post #9038 of 9055 Old 08-17-2014, 04:34 PM
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^^
Whatever sounds best to you. As with most settings ... personal preference applies.

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post #9039 of 9055 Old 08-17-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ril850 View Post
What does the reference off set need to be set at for 2channel stereo listening from a CD player?
As JD says, it is personal preference. Keep in mind that invoking the RLO "tones down" the effect of DEQ. When I listen to music, I don't want DEQ toned down, so I don't use RLO. For broadcast TV content, however, I find a setting of 10 for RLO improves the overall sound. I recommend that you experiment.
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post #9040 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 12:57 AM
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If one turns on Graphic EQ, under the Audyssey tab and copies the Audyssey EQ across and makes no adjustments, is one still operating the same as if Audyssey was turned on?


Hope you understand what Im saying here
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post #9041 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 03:31 AM
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No. Rather simply using a very simplistic graphic EQ.

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post #9042 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
No. Rather simply using a very simplistic graphic EQ.

So when you copy the Audyssey EQ across it means that none of the filters that Audyssey created are no longer working?
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post #9043 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 03:36 PM
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That is correct, Murray, and is why it is a fairly useless feature. Unless, of course, you have an issue with the Audyssey room correction. Care to explain why you would want to do this?
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post #9044 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
That is correct, Murray, and is why it is a fairly useless feature. Unless, of course, you have an issue with the Audyssey room correction. Care to explain why you would want to do this?


Well I still find Audyssey corrects all my inwall Klipsch THX front speakers with very high and bright settings on the horns. The three fronts are almost full from 2.5K and up. When I bring these down closer to the settings of all the in ceiling Klipsch THX surround and high speakers they sound beautiful.


Since Im using also the Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core and have superb bass I was wondering is it ok to just use the GEQ on the Denon, turn Audyssey off and stay with Antimode?


I have read heaps of times that Audyseey can over correct inceiling/inwall speakers and often set the tweeters too high. Its not a mic postion problem, I have tested many different positions and the same used to happen with my Integra.


Remember Klipsch horns are known for being very bright to the point of screaming. Bringing down these four or five highs on the GEQ makes them sound correct and much better blended with the surrounds and everything else in the room.


I also saw this happens with ARC and they manually pull down the highs on the GEQ.


I would prefer to run this way with Antimode in the chain, Im sure its ok, what do you think?
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post #9045 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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It sounds like you have given it some thought, Murray. I would encourage you to experiment, and let us know your results.
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post #9046 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It sounds like you have given it some thought, Murray. I would encourage you to experiment, and let us know your results.

Gee Ive been giving it thought for years jerry, its never ending.
Experiment after experiment, its a very long process when you are searching for perfection.


One of my best resent investments was changing to the 4520 coupled up with two Emotiva XPA-5 five channel power amps, this was a superb investment, the sound is spectacular!!!!
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post #9047 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Seems like you understand things correctly....

The "curve copy" to the manual EQ means you are switching from the full Audyssey filters to a more basic 9-band Graphic EQ. This is effectively a manual EQ route, although it lets you start from a "baseline" that (crudely) approximates the Audyssey EQ corrections. So if you cannot get satisfying results from Audyssey, you can certainly go this route and use the AntiMode to EQ the subwoofer channel.

It's worth noting though that you will not be able to use Dynamic EQ/Volume with this mode, although that may not be an issue for you.

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post #9048 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Seems like you understand things correctly....

The "curve copy" to the manual EQ means you are switching from the full Audyssey filters to a more basic 9-band Graphic EQ. This is effectively a manual EQ route, although it lets you start from a "baseline" that (crudely) approximates the Audyssey EQ corrections. So if you cannot get satisfying results from Audyssey, you can certainly go this route and use the AntiMode to EQ the subwoofer channel.

It's worth noting though that you will not be able to use Dynamic EQ/Volume with this mode, although that may not be an issue for you.

Thanks Batpig for that, makes me feel better that Im not doing too much wrong especially if I have more balanced and less piercing highs!
With four SVS PB13 Ultras in the room and Antimode, the bass is out of this world. I have created a house curve that gives me all I need, even more so than just the Audyssey movie curve. Since I listen at only 3/4 pints below ref. DEQ doesn't seem to worry me.


I think Im ok to say now I might have found audio bliss!
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post #9049 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Well I still find Audyssey corrects all my inwall Klipsch THX front speakers with very high and bright settings on the horns. The three fronts are almost full from 2.5K and up. When I bring these down closer to the settings of all the in ceiling Klipsch THX surround and high speakers they sound beautiful.


Since Im using also the Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core and have superb bass I was wondering is it ok to just use the GEQ on the Denon, turn Audyssey off and stay with Antimode?


I have read heaps of times that Audyseey can over correct inceiling/inwall speakers and often set the tweeters too high. Its not a mic postion problem, I have tested many different positions and the same used to happen with my Integra.


Remember Klipsch horns are known for being very bright to the point of screaming. Bringing down these four or five highs on the GEQ makes them sound correct and much better blended with the surrounds and everything else in the room.


I also saw this happens with ARC and they manually pull down the highs on the GEQ.


I would prefer to run this way with Antimode in the chain, Im sure its ok, what do you think?
Murray,

Jerry has written a wonderful step-by-step guide on room measurements using REW. There is a link in his signature.

If you want to use the graphic eq to tame the highs, best to measure the in room response. Post your results in the REW thread here for Jerry and other AVS members to obtain feedback.Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

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post #9050 of 9055 Old 08-18-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Gee Ive been giving it thought for years jerry, its never ending.
Experiment after experiment, its a very long process when you are searching for perfection.
Knowing you, Murray, you are surely getting close to perfection. Next time I am in NZ, I'll have to ring you up.
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post #9051 of 9055 Old Yesterday, 06:27 AM
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Well, got my avr back in the cabinet. Thought it odd, that afer a yr it started being to hot. But, its been really hot here in florida.

Got a 2 fan 1 intake, 1 exhaust. 12 v trigger. Even on the lowest setting, dead quiet, and seems to stay cool. Heck, even have the front cabinet door closed for the first time... the wife likes that...

I get to really test it later, the wife is going out, and I.ve got a couple of bluray music videos on que to crank it up. Make it get hot and see how it responds....
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post #9052 of 9055 Old Yesterday, 06:29 AM
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Kinda sad on this thread since the atmos is on its way..... but thats a good thing. RIGHT?
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post #9053 of 9055 Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM
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Can you recall a previous Audyssey EQ on the 4520?
I couldn't do that on my pervious Integra 70.4....
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post #9054 of 9055 Old Yesterday, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Can you recall a previous Audyssey EQ on the 4520?
I couldn't do that on my pervious Integra 70.4....
All networked Denon/Marantz receivers allow you to Save and Load configurations through the web browser interface. It takes about 10 minutes to Save/Load so not good for instant switching but very useful if you want to back up a "good" calibration for reference (for example if you want to experiment with new mic positions you can revert to the saved calibration if you don't like the new results).

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post #9055 of 9055 Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Can you recall a previous Audyssey EQ on the 4520?
I couldn't do that on my pervious Integra 70.4....
How to do the load/save: The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
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