The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 303 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9061 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 08:13 AM
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Just wondering why someone needs two additional amps. Oh, unless they are single channel.

I have one, 2 channel amp, and every thing runs great. Now, I have changed it from l/r mains to f/heights and back afew times. I think I like the sound of the denon amps best, so I let it run the mains. I was hoping to be the other way, to try to take some stress of the denon.
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post #9062 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post
Just wondering why someone needs two additional amps. Oh, unless they are single channel.

I have one, 2 channel amp, and every thing runs great. Now, I have changed it from l/r mains to f/heights and back afew times. I think I like the sound of the denon amps best, so I let it run the mains. I was hoping to be the other way, to try to take some stress of the denon.
What kind of stress will there be? I haven't connected my Front Heights yet but I am running a 7.1 system. My 4520 runs around 130 watts with no audio output and only a few watts higher with audio being output. Even though I'm not using those extra two channels I thought I read that they were powered whether they were used or not.
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post #9063 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
It appears to be a region specific update which does not apply to the USA models.
Do you know how one finds out what the update was for?
I see on the website you have to put your serial number in to get the info, its hard to get that info without pulling out the rack.
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post #9064 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post
Are your wides old surround speakers ? They may be wired for bipole???

No they are not. The result is very erratic, you can place the mic in one position and it might show the left wide is out of phase. In another position both are out. In another position the left is out. In another position they are both correct.


Crazy that the mic position changes the result only for the wides. They are wired correctly so I just ignore the result.
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post #9065 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Can you recall a previous Audyssey EQ on the 4520?
I couldn't do that on my pervious Integra 70.4....
Murray, did you try a network save?
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post #9066 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 03:14 PM
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I don't believe Onkyo equipment has a network save/restore option at all, unlike D+M.

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post #9067 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
No they are not. The result is very erratic, you can place the mic in one position and it might show the left wide is out of phase. In another position both are out. In another position the left is out. In another position they are both correct.


Crazy that the mic position changes the result only for the wides. They are wired correctly so I just ignore the result.
I used to have an Onkyo and I remember something like that as well.. I don't remember which receiver gave me the error.


But now, I moved and don't have room for the wides in the new house.
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post #9068 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
I don't believe Onkyo equipment has a network save/restore option at all, unlike D+M.
Perhaps you missed it, Seldom, but Murray recently upgraded to the 4520, which is why you see him frequenting this thread now.
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post #9069 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
No they are not. The result is very erratic, you can place the mic in one position and it might show the left wide is out of phase. In another position both are out. In another position the left is out. In another position they are both correct.

Crazy that the mic position changes the result only for the wides. They are wired correctly so I just ignore the result.
Didn't you mention previously that your wides are mismatched (i.e. not at all the same speaker family as the other speakers)? What kind of speakers are they?

False positives for the polarity check can occur due to room acoustics and also due to speaker design. For example, some speakers intentionally wire one of the drivers out of phase with the others to improve the response at the crossover freqs. As an example of room acoustics, the back right corner of my living room space opens up to a hallway to the bathroom. When my right surround speaker was on a shelf close to that hallway, I would always get a phase error. I adjusted its position a bit so it was further from the big opening and no longer get the error.

False positives like this are probably why Onkyo dropped the polarity check portion of Audyssey setup a few years ago.

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post #9070 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 04:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Didn't you mention previously that your wides are mismatched (i.e. not at all the same speaker family as the other speakers)? What kind of speakers are they?

False positives for the polarity check can occur due to room acoustics and also due to speaker design. For example, some speakers intentionally wire one of the drivers out of phase with the others to improve the response at the crossover freqs. As an example of room acoustics, the back right corner of my living room space opens up to a hallway to the bathroom. When my right surround speaker was on a shelf close to that hallway, I would always get a phase error. I adjusted its position a bit so it was further from the big opening and no longer get the error.

False positives like this are probably why Onkyo dropped the polarity check portion of Audyssey setup a few years ago.

My wides are the only mismatched in the room, Cambridge Audio Minx Min 21, they are wired correctly.
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audi.../dp/B008S4IT0S
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post #9071 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 04:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Murray, did you try a network save?

No Jerry I haven't tried that yet. I only wanted to know if it was possible on this new AVR.


Im currently dealing with a horrible null at 47Hz which seems to be at most seats. Not sure how to tackle that since all my room acoustics and bass traps are done. I don't even know what sounds I might be missing in the region of 47Hz. Even though this null disappoints me the sound is still spectacular and the bass to die for. Just hate something not right though!!!
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post #9072 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Do you know how one finds out what the update was for?
I see on the website you have to put your serial number in to get the info, its hard to get that info without pulling out the rack.
The serial number is required; however, it should also be listed on the box (you did keep the box, right?).

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post #9073 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The serial number is required; however, it should also be listed on the box (you did keep the box, right?).

Yes I did keep the box but that's at work. Saturday here, will need to wait till I return back to work on Monday. Thanks for your help.
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post #9074 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
No Jerry I haven't tried that yet. I only wanted to know if it was possible on this new AVR.


Im currently dealing with a horrible null at 47Hz which seems to be at most seats. Not sure how to tackle that since all my room acoustics and bass traps are done. I don't even know what sounds I might be missing in the region of 47Hz. Even though this null disappoints me the sound is still spectacular and the bass to die for. Just hate something not right though!!!
The way to address a null is to place a sub in the center of the null. I don't recall whether you have any flexibility left WRT sub placement. DSP can't really pull a null up.
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post #9075 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
I don't believe Onkyo equipment has a network save/restore option at all, unlike D+M.
What good is having no way to save the data? Even my ancient 3808 receiver from 2008 could save over the network. I figured this was a standard feature of receivers by now? I'm very surprised it isn't.

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post #9076 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
What good is having no way to save the data? Even my ancient 3808 receiver from 2008 could save over the network. I figured this was a standard feature of receivers by now? I'm very surprised it isn't.
Having been a Denon user for quite some time, I can't imagine being without this feature. There have been numerous occasions when being able to restore the configuration has saved me a lot of time and effort. It has become second nature to run a network save immediately after running a new Audyssey calibration.
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post #9077 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 05:31 PM
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Yeh .. that's our Jerry ... also known as Mr. Save & Load.
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post #9078 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The way to address a null is to place a sub in the center of the null. I don't recall whether you have any flexibility left WRT sub placement. DSP can't really pull a null up.
Ive moved the subs everywhere within the front width of the room, I have no other options and I believe its in the length of the room. There are no spaces available in the length.
Do you know what I might be missing sound wise in the region of 47Hz?
What about tuned traps?
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post #9079 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Does anyone have a list of what has actually been changed in the firmware updates?
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post #9080 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Ive moved the subs everywhere within the front width of the room, I have no other options and I believe its in the length of the room. There are no spaces available in the length.
Do you know what I might be missing sound wise in the region of 47Hz?
What about tuned traps?
I had an experiment with GIK Scopus tuned traps. If you search the REW thread for the word "Scopus" you will find my write-up. Again, a dip indicates a lack of energy. A trap is an absorber of energy, which is exactly the opposite of what is needed to fix a dip. The 47Hz frequency needs to be excited, which is why I questioned whether you could solve it by moving one or more subs. I appreciate that your placement options are limited, so I am not sure what other solutions might be available.

Take a look at the chart here. This will give you an idea of what is in the 47Hz range. How wide is the dip? You haven't posted any measurements in a while, so we are flying blind here. If the dip is narrow, i.e. disappears when you apply 1/12 or 1/6 smoothing, there is a good chance it is inaudible, in which case you don't need to worry.

Edit: Here is a link to the membrane trap eval: Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

Last edited by AustinJerry; 08-22-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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post #9081 of 11126 Old 08-22-2014, 06:54 PM
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Does anyone have a list of what has actually been changed in the firmware updates?
See post #4 of this thread. Last update was back in Feb.

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post #9082 of 11126 Old 08-23-2014, 06:21 AM
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What does the reference off set need to be set at for 2channel stereo listening from a CD player?
See if this FAQ answer helps:

g)3. What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?
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post #9083 of 11126 Old 08-23-2014, 02:50 PM
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Any word on what the update is
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post #9084 of 11126 Old 08-23-2014, 02:53 PM
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^^
AFAIK, there is no update for the USA units.

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post #9085 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
AFAIK, there is no update for the USA units.
Would expect some minor network tweaks or network app changes eventually. But yes no updates since 2/19/2014 (3525-8853-5475)

Oppo Beta Group
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post #9086 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 02:27 PM
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^^
Doubtful with the X7200W just a few months away.

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post #9087 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 02:27 PM
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But hey .... for those of you patiently waiting for another UAP price drop on the 4520CI .. that day has come again. Call for pricing.

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post #9088 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 03:35 PM
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As usual soon after I get something the price drops like a rock.
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post #9089 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 09:54 PM
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After weeks of wavering between denon, marantz and yamaha models I decided to jump on the deal for the 4520. I figure at this price range getting the flagship model for a quality receiver is difficult to find. One thing though: I realized it came out in 2012. Am I going to miss out on any features available this year's AV receiver models other than Atmos which I don't care about? I also don't need multiple sub eq

Last edited by bronxkid; 08-26-2014 at 11:32 PM.
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post #9090 of 11126 Old 08-26-2014, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the 4520 already has multiple sub EQ, so no difference with the new models.

Atmos is obviously the biggest change. The other meaningful changes are ancillary features like wifi, Bluetooth, digital audio to zones 2/3. But in most other respects the 4520 actually outclasses the 4100/5200 models, as its true replacement (physical size, amp quality, 32 bit processing architecture) will be the X7200W which will probably retail for around double what you can probably get the 4520 for.

So I guess I endorse your decision if you like "flagship" quality and don't give a hoot about Atmos the a steeply discounted 4520 seems like a sweet buy.

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