The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 313 - AVS Forum
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post #9361 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 02:56 AM
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I just read that you can upgrade a few Onkyo recievers to Dolby Atmos with a firmware upgrade. Could Denon do this also?


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post #9362 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 04:06 AM
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Interesting quandary in terms of scooping up a 4520CI for cheap or getting a less ambitious HDMI 2.0/Atmos AVR.
Personally, it is going to take Denon's forthcoming 7200 to make me fathom switching. Moreover, for my uses, the 4520CI has been the best AVR I have ever owned.
That said, those are the uses of someone too cheap to buy an SSP in spite of his snootier friends mocking said AVR when viewed in prism of associated equipment.

At $999, the 4520CI is such a silly good deal that it is hard not to advocate that. In a perfect world, peeps would be able to at least send the MCH of their Atmos equipped BDP's to the 4520's EXT In to get some of that sweet, sweet Atmos Sound...
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post #9363 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 05:59 AM
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Where is the IR sensor eye on the front display?

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post #9364 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewf2001 View Post
I just read that you can upgrade a few Onkyo recievers to Dolby Atmos with a firmware upgrade. Could Denon do this also?
Additional DSP hardware is required in order to have the performance needed to be able decode Atmos. Models from previous years, like the 4520, simply don't include the necessary additional DSPs, so they can't be upgraded.

The upgradable Onkyo receivers are some of this year's models which included the necessary DSPs but were shipped before the Atmos firmware was ready. Now that it's ready, they finally can be upgraded (in a couple of weeks) to include Atmos.

This year's Denon receivers which were designed to support Atmos (and thus include the necessary DSPs) were shipped late enough that the Atmos firmware was ready. They already include Atmos and no firmware updates are needed. Except, perhaps, to fix bugs.
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post #9365 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 06:36 AM
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Is there any benefit upgrading a 4311 to a 4520 if I only have 1 sub?

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post #9366 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
You don't have to try it to know it won't work. Denon Link HD is just a separate coax connection that carries timing information to reduce jitter. It won't do anything like you suggest. And I have a DBT-3313UDCI and use it with my 4520. I can't say I hear any difference, but a pretty blue light on the front of my BD player illuminates!
Pioneer has the same type of deal...light illumination and all
People in the Pioneer elite thread say they can tell the difference

Like you( with the Denon)...I can tell no difference in an A/B( blind) test with the Pioneer elite player vs a samsung one I had laying around

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Fwiw, here is the online link to the AVR-4520ci at Magnolia and it shows $1600: http://www.magnoliaav.com/products/a.../denon-5923185 If someone had some luck with them pulling it up at $999 today, that would be unusual but I wouldn't expect them to price match a 2 day sale that has already expired...
they matched for me( the $999 price) after the price on the website changed and gave me an extra 105 off with the movers coupon

Others in about every A/V thread I read have been having much the same type of success
Someone said earlier in this thread that they were honoring the $999( in store) until 9/27..I believe?

Dont think necessarily that the price in the store and the price on the website are the same
I know for a fact the website price, a few weeks ago, was $2499....while the instore price was $1599
I can tell you I have seen this happen often for magnolia items....another example is the LG OLED TV is $500 more online than it is in the store


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post #9367 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 07:15 AM
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Fellas, what are the benefits to the 4520 over the x4000 besides the slightly more robust amp section? I currently have an x4000 but I can get a decent deal on the 4520 so I was curious about an upgrade. My speakers are 4ohm but they're high efficiency and the x4000 has never had a problem powering them. The avr gets a little warm but I give it lots of room in my equipment rack and it's fine. My speaker setup is currently 5.1, but I'm planning on making it 7.2 or 9.2 (heights and maybe rear surrounds). I may be getting a 4k display in the next year or so. That's still up in the air though. So, beyond the internal amp, would I benefit from the upgrade?
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post #9368 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 07:50 AM
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Warren,

I tried PM you but it did not work. Would appreciate if you can send me the 10% off movers coupon forestman937 (at) yahoo (dot) com. I'll try my local Best Buy (Northern VA) and see if it will work.

Many thanks in advance.

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post #9369 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Is there any benefit upgrading a 4311 to a 4520 if I only have 1 sub?
Why would that be relevant? Both receivers have identical XT32 + SubEQ calibration software.

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post #9370 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
My local best buy customer service rep pulled it up and their in-store price is $999 and it says it is on sale until 9/27. What you pull up online is not the in-store price. I have had multiple best buy employees confirm the in store price of $999 until 9/27. I didn't have to show them this price, it is what they pulled up in their system.
Cool--I only remember one poster saying they heard it from an employee on the phone and several calling it a "2 day sale." My thought if that were true as explained possibly the store employee got confused or misread his screen...The point I was making is if that were true then I don't see how anyone could blame Magnolia from not honoring the $999 price except in that one instance...

That said, if the $999 is coming up on one Salesperson's screen until 9/27 then you would think it would be coming up on all of the screens, at least on any given day the sale is running.
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post #9371 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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Mine is supposed to be here Tuesday. A couple of quick questions:

Do I need to let it "break-in" for a while before running Audyssey?
For SACD playback should I set my player to DSD or PCM?

Thanks.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50
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post #9372 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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Specs show that the 4520 draws 780w for power. Typical pre/pro draws around 80w. Does anyone know how much of a power reduction the 4520 gets if I were to use it for a pre/pro and send all channels out through the pre amps?
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post #9373 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Mine is supposed to be here Tuesday. A couple of quick questions:

Do I need to let it "break-in" for a while before running Audyssey?
For SACD playback should I set my player to DSD or PCM?

Thanks.
Nope.

PCM.
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post #9374 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
...they matched for me( the $999 price) after the price on the website changed and gave me an extra 105 off with the movers coupon

Others in about every A/V thread I read have been having much the same type of success
Someone said earlier in this thread that they were honoring the $999( in store) until 9/27..I believe?

Dont think necessarily that the price in the store and the price on the website are the same


Warren
I was going off the point that others were saying they didn't have the same experience--Possibly the difference could be Magnolia verses BestBuy? Regardless, it seems the AVR-4520ci for $999 is a great deal!
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post #9375 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
Fellas, what are the benefits to the 4520 over the x4000 besides the slightly more robust amp section? I currently have an x4000 but I can get a decent deal on the 4520 so I was curious about an upgrade. My speakers are 4ohm but they're high efficiency and the x4000 has never had a problem powering them. The avr gets a little warm but I give it lots of room in my equipment rack and it's fine. My speaker setup is currently 5.1, but I'm planning on making it 7.2 or 9.2 (heights and maybe rear surrounds). I may be getting a 4k display in the next year or so. That's still up in the air though. So, beyond the internal amp, would I benefit from the upgrade?
I'd say no and wait and see how Dolby Atmos pans out before you "upgrade" AVRs.
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post #9376 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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I bought mine from a NON-Magnolia BB on Thursday and they simply brought it up on their computer showing it at $999.98. I didn't have to say a word, they just ordered it. It shipped from Ohio (I'm in Georgia).

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post #9377 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Mine is supposed to be here Tuesday. A couple of quick questions:

Do I need to let it "break-in" for a while before running Audyssey?
For SACD playback should I set my player to DSD or PCM?

Thanks.
Solid state electronics do not "break in".

The 4520 can decode direct DSD (and obviously also Multich PCM) but the DSD will be converted to PCM anyway by necessity if you want to apply any digital processing (bass management, room correction etc). So the only time you would get any theoretical "benefit" from the DSD would be if you use "DSD Direct" surround mode, which bypasses all processing.... But any incremental difference in fidelity between DSD and the DSD>PCM converted stream would likely be swamped by the impact of the room acoustics (since in order to use room correction the signal must be PCM).

So most choose to just let the player convert to PCM (although the receiver can do it too) in order to take advantage of proper bass management and room correction etc.
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post #9378 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I was going off the point that others were saying they didn't have the same experience--Possibly the difference could be Magnolia verses BestBuy? Regardless, it seems the AVR-4520ci for $999 is a great deal!
My best buy is a magnolia also and $999 came up when I went to purchase it on Friday. I didn't even mention the price to them. I just said I wanted to order it and gave them my moving coupon. It rang up as $899.
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post #9379 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I bought mine from a NON-Magnolia BB on Thursday and they simply brought it up on their computer showing it at $999.98. I didn't have to say a word, they just ordered it. It shipped from Ohio (I'm in Georgia).
Well, that shoots down one theory. If that's the case then everyone should be able to get this deal...That said, I only saw it mentioned on this thread and folks said it was something they saw online and not in print. Then we have the comments by JD at AVS--All I know is that I got the discontinued AVR-4311ci for more than that, have been extremely happy with it for a year, and almost have the urge to upgrade to the x-7200 but can't imagine a better AVR than the AVR-4520ci (or even the AVR-4311ci) at that price. {Note: my last comment/opinion on price}
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post #9380 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
My best buy is a magnolia also and $999 came up when I went to purchase it on Friday. I didn't even mention the price to them. I just said I wanted to order it and gave them my moving coupon. It rang up as $899.
Same here, in MD.
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post #9381 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Solid state electronics do not "break in".

The 4520 can decode direct DSD (and obviously also Multich PCM) but the DSD will be converted to PCM anyway by necessity if you want to apply any digital processing (bass management, room correction etc). So the only time you would get any theoretical "benefit" from the DSD would be if you use "DSD Direct" surround mode, which bypasses all processing.... But any incremental difference in fidelity between DSD and the DSD>PCM converted stream would likely be swamped by the impact of the room acoustics (since in order to use room correction the signal must be PCM).

So most choose to just let the player convert to PCM (although the receiver can do it too) in order to take advantage of proper bass management and room correction etc.
The reason I recommended PCM was because of a known issue affecting SACD's only when outputting DSD to the AVR. Specifically, the bass content will be 10dB lower when using DSD. This has been thoroughly documented in the following thread, and confirmed by users with large SACD collections, like SoundofMind and Bill Mac.

Low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD setting

I actually purchased a SACD with audio test tones and confirmed the issue by measuring both DSD and PCM output using REW, as documented in this post:

Low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD setting

So while I completely agree that there should be no audio difference between the two decoding methods, there is in fact the 10dB bass issue to consider. Which is why I recommended using PCM to eliminate the issue.
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post #9382 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 09:55 AM
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What's up everyone, I will be joining the club as well.  My best buy didn't have any units so they ordered me one, should be here next week.  In preparation in receiving my new unit I had a few questions.

1.  I have a 4310 now with two old Marantz mono block amps (ma500) running the front mains.  Should i use them with the 4520 or use the 4520 amps?

2.  I was going to connect my ps4 directly to my TV because I hate toggling game mode, so I put the ps4 on a separate input so I can keep that input on game mode all the time.  If I do this will ARC send the audio back to the receiver? If yes do I have to assign ARC to an input? I'm new to ARC so if someone can explain how it works that would be great.   On my last TV I had the two hdmi outs on the receiver connected to hdmi 1 and 2 of the TV to solve this problem but my new Samsung freaks out when I have them both connected. 

3.  I have Netflix on my tv, I'm assuming if I have Arc setup correctly it will sent the audio to me receiver.  What input does arc have to be setup? Or will it auto detect and work on any input? If I have my directv playing in HD I input one and I run Netflix on my TV will it override direct audio and play netflix?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get an understanding.  Im trying to have everything planed and setup with configuration and remote setup before the unit arrives.
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post #9383 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 10:13 AM
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In reading the manual, I'm confused about reference level offset. Should I set it to "0"?

Edit: Oops! I just realized this is an Audyssey feature. Will look at the Audyssey thread.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50

Last edited by mnc; 09-07-2014 at 10:19 AM.
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post #9384 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 10:21 AM
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post #9385 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The reason I recommended PCM was because of a known issue affecting SACD's only when outputting DSD to the AVR. Specifically, the bass content will be 10dB lower when using DSD. This has been thoroughly documented in the following thread, and confirmed by users with large SACD collections, like SoundofMind and Bill Mac.

Low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD setting

I actually purchased a SACD with audio test tones and confirmed the issue by measuring both DSD and PCM output using REW, as documented in this post:

Low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD setting

So while I completely agree that there should be no audio difference between the two decoding methods, there is in fact the 10dB bass issue to consider. Which is why I recommended using PCM to eliminate the issue.
Good point. Even more reason to go with PCM.

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post #9386 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 10:53 AM
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May I have the price link and the coupon asap please sir I would love to get this awesome deal in Dallas. I sent you a PM with my email address.


Thanks.
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post #9387 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I was going off the point that others were saying they didn't have the same experience--Possibly the difference could be Magnolia verses BestBuy? Regardless, it seems the AVR-4520ci for $999 is a great deal!
I was under the assumption that they were going into Magnolia's like I did

but..yes you could be right

and I "hope" I like this AVR
I have tried a couple of others to replace this Pioneer Sc37 and didnt like them as well...and its a chore to connect and reconnect in it spot

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post #9388 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Well, that shoots down one theory. If that's the case then everyone should be able to get this deal...
yes..it seems that is the case
On AVS and a couple of other websites it seems everyone is getting this deal

The question is how are they going to honor it?

Warren

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Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
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post #9389 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 11:29 AM
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DID you find it in Texas? I am in Dallas and would love to get one especially with the Coupon that is being mentioned. If anyone has it can you please share.

thanks.
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post #9390 of 10834 Old 09-07-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
yes..it seems that is the case
On AVS and a couple of other websites it seems everyone is getting this deal

The question is how are they going to honor it?

Warren
Please can you share the coupon with me. I sent you a pm yesterday. I am going to the BB store in Plano Tx in the next 30 minutes to find out if they have one and if they will honor the price. They do have a Magnolia Store in this BB. Are you saying the Magnolia honored it but the BB did not or vice-versa.

I think the only way to be sure is if they have one in stock and you can pick it up right there.
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