The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 316 - AVS Forum
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post #9451 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 08:17 AM
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So how's the dynamic EQ on this thing? Worth leaving on? And where do I switch between Movie and Flat/Music curves?
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post #9452 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
HaHa with that 674 price I feel cheated too. I guess CA and NY and Chicago are the places to buy these things. Dallas area is cleaned out and the BB in our area is notorious for bad service. I will go to another store and try for a new one with the movers package and return the floor model and the warranty lol. Great posts about the movers package. Makes sense that as long as you have a coupon then it is the post office really giving it to you ;-) ;-). GO USPS!!!
they are more than happy to transfer a unit to you from another area

you need to go in the store

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post #9453 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
HaHa with that 674 price I feel cheated too. I guess CA and NY and Chicago are the places to buy these things. Dallas area is cleaned out and the BB in our area is notorious for bad service. I will go to another store and try for a new one with the movers package and return the floor model and the warranty lol. Great posts about the movers package. Makes sense that as long as you have a coupon then it is the post office really giving it to you ;-) ;-). GO USPS!!!
Get a manager involved. The 1st 2 people I talked to said there where none available then I asked to speak to a manager and told her my brother in law Got one ordered for him from the store about 100 miles from there (which was a lie) but it worked and they found one. It just came in yesterday and was shipped from :
Bestbuy.com
18882378289
14405 county rd 212
Findlay , oh 45840

Maybe call that number..

The sku # is 5923185
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post #9454 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lanced View Post
Just bought the 4520CI from BB today. I also bought the extended warranty for $139 (after 10% mover coupon). I have until Sunday to cancel the policy.
Normally, I don't buy extended warranty, but for $139, I have effectively 6 years warranty on this receiver. Given the common HDMI board issue on many modern receiver, I thought this may be worth the cost.
However, I have never bought/dealt with BB warranty before. Have any of the poster here have any experience with BB's extended warranty?
I asked because I'm always skeptical about ew. They will try everything they can to not honor the warranty (or make it very hard for on you)
I will also point out if you purchased the unit with a AMEX card you get an extra year of warranty so that extends it to 4 years without any extra cost...
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post #9455 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
So how's the dynamic EQ on this thing? Worth leaving on? And where do I switch between Movie and Flat/Music curves?
All Audyssey settings are set in the GUI in the Audio menu. You can also (my preference for quick switching access) load them up via the web browser interface. And if you have a programmable universal there are discrete codes for turning things on/off.

Note that all of these settings are stored BY INPUT so you can have a different Audyssey profile for your Blu-ray player vs. your cable box or whatever.

Dynamic EQ has fans and haters but most like it. It's important to know what it does and how to offset it for non-film sources (the Reference Level Offset setting) before giving up on it, because it can sound a bit unnatural at first if you aren't used to hearing that much fullness and envelopment at lower volumes. If you will spend a considerable amount of time listening at low to moderate volumes then it's likely you will find it to be of great benefit.

Some further reading in the Audyssey FAQ, there is a whole section on DEQ, DV, and RLO: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

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post #9456 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 01:31 PM
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Is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 so magical that it can correct for two subwoofers of different make, model, and performance? Or would I be better off sticking with just one?
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post #9457 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 so magical that it can correct for two subwoofers of different make, model, and performance? Or would I be better off sticking with just one?
Yes and no.

MultEQ XT32 (or more accurately, along with SubEQ HT) doesn't know or care what make and model your subs are. It will take the two subwoofers, time align and level match them so they are contributing equally to the output and in phase with each other, and then create an EQ filter to make the summed response of the two subwoofers as flat as possible. It is really, really good at this.

However, what it doesn't do is measure the "performance envelope" of each sub to determine what the respective capabilities are. The level match step is blind to performance characteristics. And the level of the test pings (75dB or so) isn't anywhere near loud enough to strain a subwoofer to its limits. It just pings the subs together and flattens the combined bass response. So it's not magical enough to be able to determine that one sub is much better than the second sub, and optimize things accordingly.

So it's possible, if you have two subs of vastly different performance, that when you crank up the volume in real world usage that one sub will poop out before the other does. Technically, even if you had identical subs this could be possible too due to room acoustics / distance differences. With room / distance effects the exact same sub, set to the exact same gain, could be asked to provide significantly more output in one location vs another. For example in my room, when I place the sub on the left side (nearer the corner) vs the right side (more in the middle of the room) I get about 10-15dB of "free" bass from reinforcement between 35-70Hz or so. And thus the same exact sub, set at the same exact gain, requires a lot less trim from the receiver on one side vs the other.

But this is getting into the weeds and in the "real world" probably not a concern unless you are really pushing the system towards its limits.

So I would say that as long as your subs are close enough in performance, I wouldn't worry about it. If they are drastically different in performance, I probably would worry about. You can mitigate differences by being clever (e.g. placing the less capable sub nearfield, and the more capable sub further away, so that the level match naturally makes the better sub work harder). Or if you have measurement gear you can optimize placement objectively.

All that said, I would NOT go down to one sub if you have two. The benefits of multiple subs are significant in smoothing out the bass response across the listening area and cancelling out room modes.

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post #9458 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 so magical that it can correct for two subwoofers of different make, model, and performance? Or would I be better off sticking with just one?
batpig's answer is, as ever, thorough, comprehensive and accurate. You might care also to review this Audyssey FAQ answer for some background information on Audyssey and dual subs...

f)2. How do I connect and set up two subwoofers?
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post #9459 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 03:15 PM
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How does 4520ci compares with 4100? Any major features that are lacking in 4100 compared to 4520ci? Also, 4100 seems to have more power watts per channel.
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post #9460 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tanishq02 View Post
How does 4520ci compares with 4100? Any major features that are lacking in 4100 compared to 4520ci? Also, 4100 seems to have more power watts per channel.
The 4520 is a higher end model -- it has beefier amps, higher build quality, 32-bit processing architecture. So the "raw" sound quality is probably a bit better, and it will be more capable of handling difficult speakers without external amps. It also has 9 amps built it, and can expand to 11 channels with the addition of at least 2ch of external amps. Plus it has more inputs/outputs, it has 4 zones instead of 3 (the HDMI zone output is on its own Zone 4, whereas on the X4100 it piggybacks on Zone 2), and some other minor features like InstaPrevue that have been dropped on newer models.

The X4100 is a lower end, but newer model, so while it doesn't have the beef and build quality of the 4520, it has some newer features. It only has 7 amps built in, and can only expand to 9 channels max (so 2 less than the 4520), but the biggest difference is that it has Dolby Atmos built in (along with Dolby Surround upmixer replacing the Pro Logic family). The other significant difference is that, despite having 3 zones instead of 4, it can actually output digital audio signals to these zones (unlike the 4520 which can only output analog audio). It also has some newer tweaks to the GUI and Option menus, network options (e.g. Spotify Connect vs on board interface), and some other minor stuff.

So, IMO if you don't see yourself upgrading your setup to take advantage of Atmos, go with the 4520 at the current bargain pricing.

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post #9461 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I run my Denon 4520 to a couple pro amps (inuke dsp 6000) to power subs. When I put a splitter in the line to signal to two amps off one subwoofer out the 60Hz hum becomes obnoxious. Subwoofer output two is signal to another amp for my nearfield subs. I realize this is room and electrical system related but any suggestions? I've tried all manner of connections this far. RCA to XLR with RCA splitters, and with XLR splitters. I've tried multiple cables and multiple splitters. The amps, without signal from the Denon, but powered up and connected to the subs make no noise. When I connect the subwoofer out cable is when I get noise. I've tried dedicated power, and different outlets. I'm coming from an Onkyo preamp with XLR subwoofer outputs where this wasn't as big of an issue. The Denon only has RCA.

This amp hum problem has been wholly resolved with a grounding cable from the Denon phono ground screw to the ground plug on my amplifiers --- at the suggestion of @jevansoh
Post 431 for details
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post #9462 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post
"Not a big deal"

Are you serious? I will save you $100 and you can give me $50 alright?

Seriously now, just go to the post office and a ask for the moving packet. Then take the coupon to BB and they should refund you the $100!

If they balk, just tell them you
want to return the item and then repurchase with the coupon and then they would understand. You should have no problem. Just be a savvy consumer and advocate for yourself and save some dough bro!

Good Luck!

...Glenn
Just so you know I was a savvy consumer and went and got the 10% coupon. They knocked off 105.00 yee haa!!

Denon 4520
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post #9463 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Just so you know I was a savvy consumer and went and got the 10% coupon. They knocked off 105.00 yee haa!!
I was certain you would come back a winner... Right on man, we knew you could do it!

Enjoy that bad boy!

...Glenn
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post #9464 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The 4520 is a higher end model -- it has beefier amps, higher build quality, 32-bit processing architecture. So the "raw" sound quality is probably a bit better, and it will be more capable of handling difficult speakers without external amps. It also has 9 amps built it, and can expand to 11 channels with the addition of at least 2ch of external amps. Plus it has more inputs/outputs, it has 4 zones instead of 3 (the HDMI zone output is on its own Zone 4, whereas on the X4100 it piggybacks on Zone 2), and some other minor features like InstaPrevue that have been dropped on newer models.

The X4100 is a lower end, but newer model, so while it doesn't have the beef and build quality of the 4520, it has some newer features. It only has 7 amps built in, and can only expand to 9 channels max (so 2 less than the 4520), but the biggest difference is that it has Dolby Atmos built in (along with Dolby Surround upmixer replacing the Pro Logic family). The other significant difference is that, despite having 3 zones instead of 4, it can actually output digital audio signals to these zones (unlike the 4520 which can only output analog audio). It also has some newer tweaks to the GUI and Option menus, network options (e.g. Spotify Connect vs on board interface), and some other minor stuff.

So, IMO if you don't see yourself upgrading your setup to take advantage of Atmos, go with the 4520 at the current bargain pricing.
Thanks batpig for detailed explanation...this is very helpful. Yes, I don't see myself upgrading to atmos yet and thereby inclining towards 4520 as well. Thanks again for your insight.
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post #9465 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Is there any place that has the dated coupon, I mean at 999. a sweet deal for sure and I would look to ungrade from my 4311.
You should all consider yourself very lucky to be able to obtain such a high quality receiver at prices like this, considering I paid over $3000 Australian dollars for mine, nearly 2 years ago.
It has and still remains an amazing receiver that satisfies all of my needs for now and the foreseeable future.


Enjoy
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post #9466 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TomL937 View Post
Warren,

I tried PM you but it did not work. Would appreciate if you can send me the 10% off movers coupon forestman937 (at) yahoo (dot) com. I'll try my local Best Buy (Northern VA) and see if it will work.

Many thanks in advance.

Tom
It worked for me at the Best Buy in Reston. They matched the price and took (and scanned) the coupon. I used the online/printable version of the coupon. Good luck.

_____________________________________________

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Last edited by Skrill; 09-09-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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post #9467 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post
"Not a big deal"

Are you serious? I will save you $100 and you can give me $50 alright?

Seriously now, just go to the post office and a ask for the moving packet. Then take the coupon to BB and they should refund you the $100!

If they balk, just tell them you
want to return the item and then repurchase with the coupon and then they would understand. You should have no problem. Just be a savvy consumer and advocate for yourself and save some dough bro!

Good Luck!

...Glenn
I will note -- the new movers packs at USPS in my area do not have the BB coupon. Apparently this is the case starting with new packs starting sometime in July of this year.

That said -- I did actually recently move in May, and I decided to renew my forwarding address just to make sure I am still getting stuff forwarded to my current address.

Good luck all.

_____________________________________________

My Bargain Basement Theater
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post #9468 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
they are more than happy to transfer a unit to you from another area

you need to go in the store

Warren
I did go into the store today and they said they could order it for me.

So is it worthwhile to go through the process of returning the floor model and get the new one? Is there significant deterioration in the ICs etc on it over time?

It would still come out to the same price unless I could get them to apply the movers coupon to this floor model.

Thanks for the input.

Neal
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post #9469 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Yes and no.

MultEQ XT32 (or more accurately, along with SubEQ HT) doesn't know or care what make and model your subs are. It will take the two subwoofers, time align and level match them so they are contributing equally to the output and in phase with each other, and then create an EQ filter to make the summed response of the two subwoofers as flat as possible. It is really, really good at this.

However, what it doesn't do is measure the "performance envelope" of each sub to determine what the respective capabilities are. The level match step is blind to performance characteristics. And the level of the test pings (75dB or so) isn't anywhere near loud enough to strain a subwoofer to its limits. It just pings the subs together and flattens the combined bass response. So it's not magical enough to be able to determine that one sub is much better than the second sub, and optimize things accordingly.

So it's possible, if you have two subs of vastly different performance, that when you crank up the volume in real world usage that one sub will poop out before the other does. Technically, even if you had identical subs this could be possible too due to room acoustics / distance differences. With room / distance effects the exact same sub, set to the exact same gain, could be asked to provide significantly more output in one location vs another. For example in my room, when I place the sub on the left side (nearer the corner) vs the right side (more in the middle of the room) I get about 10-15dB of "free" bass from reinforcement between 35-70Hz or so. And thus the same exact sub, set at the same exact gain, requires a lot less trim from the receiver on one side vs the other.

But this is getting into the weeds and in the "real world" probably not a concern unless you are really pushing the system towards its limits.

So I would say that as long as your subs are close enough in performance, I wouldn't worry about it. If they are drastically different in performance, I probably would worry about. You can mitigate differences by being clever (e.g. placing the less capable sub nearfield, and the more capable sub further away, so that the level match naturally makes the better sub work harder). Or if you have measurement gear you can optimize placement objectively.

All that said, I would NOT go down to one sub if you have two. The benefits of multiple subs are significant in smoothing out the bass response across the listening area and cancelling out room modes.
Thanks! I'll give it a try and see how it goes with one and with both. I think both are capable of the overall volume that I would ever max out at, but one goes noticeably deeper than the other.
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post #9470 of 10622 Old 09-09-2014, 11:11 PM
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USPS.COM no longer has the 10% Coupon. Actually it seems that comes from their affiliation with my move. com and they now have a Best Buy 25% off select Tvs coupon.

Would still like to get a usable copy of this coupon if there is one out there.

Thanks.
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post #9471 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
I did go into the store today and they said they could order it for me.

So is it worthwhile to go through the process of returning the floor model and get the new one? Is there significant deterioration in the ICs etc on it over time?

It would still come out to the same price unless I could get them to apply the movers coupon to this floor model.

Thanks for the input.

Neal
I dont think I would waste the time returning it....unless the store is very close to you or there is some visible flaw to the floor model

I certainly dont think there would be any discernible performance deterioration

call it money saved
Due to the some what "disposable" nature of the Asian AVR's....meaning that that in 12-18 months they is typically something out with a new new "must have" feature

I say each penny you save on buying one is worth it

Buying a floor model makes yours no more( or less) valuable when you sell it on the used market...than one new in box

keep that in mind


Warren

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post #9472 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
I will note -- the new movers packs at USPS in my area do not have the BB coupon. Apparently this is the case starting with new packs starting sometime in July of this year.

That said -- I did actually recently move in May, and I decided to renew my forwarding address just to make sure I am still getting stuff forwarded to my current address.

Good luck all.
I did the online movers deal...got the first coupon via email last week. Used that on the 4520 I bought

they also sent me a packet in the mail...this week....with printed coupons in it with yet another BB coupon in the envelope

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5509 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
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post #9473 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
It worked for me at the Best Buy in Reston. They matched the price and took (and scanned) the coupon. I used the online/printable version of the coupon. Good luck.
Thanks Skrill, went to Baleys Crossroad (Falls Church) store yesterday, used the coupon I picked up from the USPS, and ordered the unit. Got the shipping confirmation in the afternoon and UPS will deliver it to my residence on Thurs (11 SEP) (Note: thanks for the coupon sent by Warren but it did not work as it's already been used LOL).
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post #9474 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 06:48 AM
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I scored the mover's coupon yesterday. I now have a few questions on the next steps:

What is the general consensus on where to buy this? Can it be done through a "normal" Best Buy (much closer to me) or is it better to go directly to a Magnolia (a bit more of a drive)? I am not much of a haggler so is there anything special I need to do or say? A special handshake, perhaps?

Thank you in advance for any advice.
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post #9475 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The 4520 is a higher end model -- it has beefier amps, higher build quality, 32-bit processing architecture. So the "raw" sound quality is probably a bit better, and it will be more capable of handling difficult speakers without external amps. It also has 9 amps built it, and can expand to 11 channels with the addition of at least 2ch of external amps. Plus it has more inputs/outputs, it has 4 zones instead of 3 (the HDMI zone output is on its own Zone 4, whereas on the X4100 it piggybacks on Zone 2), and some other minor features like InstaPrevue that have been dropped on newer models.

The X4100 is a lower end, but newer model, so while it doesn't have the beef and build quality of the 4520, it has some newer features. It only has 7 amps built in, and can only expand to 9 channels max (so 2 less than the 4520), but the biggest difference is that it has Dolby Atmos built in (along with Dolby Surround upmixer replacing the Pro Logic family). The other significant difference is that, despite having 3 zones instead of 4, it can actually output digital audio signals to these zones (unlike the 4520 which can only output analog audio). It also has some newer tweaks to the GUI and Option menus, network options (e.g. Spotify Connect vs on board interface), and some other minor stuff.

So, IMO if you don't see yourself upgrading your setup to take advantage of Atmos, go with the 4520 at the current bargain pricing.
Batpig: thanks for info. Will you be able to stream from pandora or music server to zone2/3 on the 4520? If it can't do that, i would return it and get the x4100
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post #9476 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bluefire529 View Post
I scored the mover's coupon yesterday. I now have a few questions on the next steps:

What is the general consensus on where to buy this? Can it be done through a "normal" Best Buy (much closer to me) or is it better to go directly to a Magnolia (a bit more of a drive)? I am not much of a haggler so is there anything special I need to do or say? A special handshake, perhaps?

Thank you in advance for any advice.
I would visit the BB store first. Ask them to ring this SKU 5923185 it should bring the $999.98 price. If not, then you can ask the manager to double check that price for you. Or, you can just head to the Magnolia store.

Good luck!
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post #9477 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 08:47 AM
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Yes the BB Store should be able to do it but they have to put it in their internal section of the system and not online.

DOES ANYONE STILL HAVE THE 10% COUPON THEY CAN SEND ME?

Warren the Reason you did not get my PM was because one has to post 15 times before one can send a PM. I hope this is #15 .

Neal
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post #9478 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 08:52 AM
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After running all the setup the SUBS sound boomy. Can this simply be a factor that my floors are all wood and the room acoustics are bad or can i change a setting to make it less boomy(it is more of an echo).

Thanks.

Neal
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post #9479 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lanced View Post
Batpig: thanks for info. Will you be able to stream from pandora or music server to zone2/3 on the 4520? If it can't do that, i would return it and get the x4100
Yes network streams can go to zone 2/3. The restriction on the 4520 (as with most receivers) is that external digital sources connected with HDMI or SPDIF won't go to other zones.
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post #9480 of 10622 Old 09-10-2014, 08:57 AM
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Came home last night to see mine waiting for me. Just finished hooking it up and have spent the last hour listening to bits of movies and music. I have to say I am VERY impressed with the sound! I thought my previous receiver sounded great, not anymore! I have never heard my speakers sound so detailed without sounding harsh. I'm absolutely LOVING IT!

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50
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