The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 322 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9631 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Would that rule out temporarily routing a cable external to the walls just to rule out the cable as being the issue? Or is the distance too great?
Too far to the TV without going through walls, but I can and will try this with the projector. I've got another cable coming from Monoprice, along with some short HDMI extenders to take the strain of my heavy cables off the 4520 jacks.
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post #9632 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Big frownie face emoticon here.

Lose the entitlement attitude. All they'd need to do is replace it with another 4520 if yours came damaged -- or refund your money. They owe you nothing else. Why would they substitute the next flagship, when the only reason you bought this flagship was the stellar sale? You need to rethink.......everything.
I don't believe I need to rethink anything. Yes, they owe me exactly what I purchased and what they sold me. I specifically asked if there was enough stock available to replace my 4520 should it come DOA, as I have been told otherwise. They guaranteed me that there was. So I do feel they should honor their agreement. They could have simply told me no, there is not enough stock, so you may be stuck with your purchase or you may return it, I'd be happy with that. But they didn't say that, they "guaranteed" me, their words.

I'm an elite plus member, did I ask for this status or recognition? No, they gave it to me, it was entirely their idea. I spend enough money in their store to merit such an elevated status in their view. Every time I have an issue with a purchase, order, exchange or price match the first thing they do is ask about my membership or lack of. Their attitude goes from uninterested in helping me, and then after looking at my past purchase history, their attitude changes to lets do what we can to keep you as customer. That tells me they are interested in helping me only if it benefits them, by keeping my money in their stores. I don't like his model, especially when I've been told countless times by BB management that Best Buy considers themselves committed to providing the best customer service in the industry to every customer. I am entitled to stellar customer service and BB would agree with me. I am entitled to the truth when I ask a question. Best Buy hasn't screwed this up yet (although they have a record of doing so with my other transactions), so I am not complaining, I am simply stating that for them to offer a great deal and be unable to deliver on that deal after accepting my money and guaranteeing me delivery of a working product is not an acceptable outcome.

I'm not trying to troll ya, I just really hate bad customer service, because its everywhere nowadays and BB used to be great. I think the price is illrevent, if they cant deliver on what was promised after accepting payment they should provide a product comparable in features and design. Refunding should be the customers choice, getting the customer what they purchased or something close to it is BB's obligation. That goes for anything, $10 or $100,000. That is customer service 101.
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post #9633 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 08:08 AM
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i have one i bought a few days ago and dont think i am going to use if my x4000 doesnt sell. if any one around cincinnati area wants to meet up i sale if for $1000
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post #9634 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 10:26 AM
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This is what I was talking about for purchasing warranty.
Sometimes it helps. This is where BB makes money and the employees get a little "extra" in their pockets. This is from the "deals" thread about the 4520.
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post #9635 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
I don't believe I need to rethink anything. Yes, they owe me exactly what I purchased and what they sold me. I specifically asked if there was enough stock available to replace my 4520 should it come DOA, as I have been told otherwise. They guaranteed me that there was. So I do feel they should honor their agreement. They could have simply told me no, there is not enough stock, so you may be stuck with your purchase or you may return it, I'd be happy with that. But they didn't say that, they "guaranteed" me, their words.

I'm an elite plus member, did I ask for this status or recognition? No, they gave it to me, it was entirely their idea. I spend enough money in their store to merit such an elevated status in their view. Every time I have an issue with a purchase, order, exchange or price match the first thing they do is ask about my membership or lack of. Their attitude goes from uninterested in helping me, and then after looking at my past purchase history, their attitude changes to lets do what we can to keep you as customer. That tells me they are interested in helping me only if it benefits them, by keeping my money in their stores. I don't like his model, especially when I've been told countless times by BB management that Best Buy considers themselves committed to providing the best customer service in the industry to every customer. I am entitled to stellar customer service and BB would agree with me. I am entitled to the truth when I ask a question. Best Buy hasn't screwed this up yet (although they have a record of doing so with my other transactions), so I am not complaining, I am simply stating that for them to offer a great deal and be unable to deliver on that deal after accepting my money and guaranteeing me delivery of a working product is not an acceptable outcome.

I'm not trying to troll ya, I just really hate bad customer service, because its everywhere nowadays and BB used to be great. I think the price is illrevent, if they cant deliver on what was promised after accepting payment they should provide a product comparable in features and design. Refunding should be the customers choice, getting the customer what they purchased or something close to it is BB's obligation. That goes for anything, $10 or $100,000. That is customer service 101.
If you paid $999 for a receiver I think the best you are going to get would be a replacement 4520, your money back or store credit for the amount of your purchase regardless of your Best Buy status. I am an Elite Plus member (which I didn't ask for either) and wouldn't expect anything more.

I bought a warranty on a $2700 tv once. The tv died after 3 years and there was no replacement for it. They gave me store credit for the original purchase price.
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post #9636 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
This is what I was talking about for purchasing warranty.
Sometimes it helps. This is where BB makes money and the employees get a little "extra" in their pockets. This is from the "deals" thread about the 4520.
The 4 year plan is $150. BB claimed that they would refund the money or give me a comparable current model if mine was unrepairable. Not sure if that means the new flagship or not. I am also considering purchasing their protection plan. I think their own fine print defines the plan as a protection or replacement plan, so they may in fact replace it with a current flag ship.

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post #9637 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I think the last time I did that with a receiver was the early 90's!
Yeah - I ran out of banana plugs while building patch cables
I have an AV rack in a separate room from the HT, with the in-wall/in-ceiling wires all running back to a patch panel in the top of the rack that has binding posts for each speaker.


It seemed easer when I was installing things (I have the rack ears on the 4520 and it is bolted into the rack) to just attach the cables (bare wire) to the binding posts before I put it in the rack, then use the banana plugs on the other end to go to the patch panel.


I am sure once I get everything installed and working (still have to program the URC remotes to make wife happy) I will go back and put the binding posts on the other end of the cables


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post #9638 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Too far to the TV without going through walls, but I can and will try this with the projector. I've got another cable coming from Monoprice, along with some short HDMI extenders to take the strain of my heavy cables off the 4520 jacks.

I would certainly recommend the Redmere cables from Monoprice - especially for longer runs. They are much lighter than the traditional HDMI cables and don't strain the HDMI jacks nearly as much.


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post #9639 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
The 4 year plan is $150. BB claimed that they would refund the money or give me a comparable current model if mine was unrepairable. Not sure if that means the new flagship or not. I am also considering purchasing their protection plan. I think their own fine print defines the plan as a protection or replacement plan, so they may in fact replace it with a current flag ship.
Up to actual purchase price? or the current flagship @ 2-3k. I know that Square Trade will only give back up to purchase price. Not a dime more.
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post #9640 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 04:47 PM
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Up to actual purchase price? or the current flagship @ 2-3k. I know that Square Trade will only give back up to purchase price. Not a dime more.
I spoke to the magnolia lead in my local store and he indicated that he would replace it with a comparable model (should it be completely dead and unrepairable), regardless of what I originally paid. I asked does that mean the next flagship? He responded by saying that the next ones up the line like x4100 and on are so feature rich that likely I would get a model just below the flagship since it would very comparable in features. I felt and suspect there is room to negotiate on what model it would be should I claim a replacement. I'd rather have the 4520 repaired in any case, the independently assignable amps is something only their flagship model has, I believe.

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post #9641 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 05:05 PM
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Ummmmm, you best read some of the fine print of Best Buys protection plans about what their obligations are. And pay attention to how they use the words of "at our option" as far as replacing, and also "current market value" if they decide to only give you a payout instead.

And at the end, there is the big gotcha, of "exceed the original purchase price"!


"
  1. Our Obligations:
    1. At our option, we will repair or replace your product with a refurbished product of like kind and quality or a new product or compensate you for the current market value of the product in the form of a gift card.
    2. We will have no further obligations to you under the Plan if (i) we replace your product with a new product; (ii) for mobile phones and tablets, you have reached your claim limit; (iii) we provide you with a new or refurbished product based on the terms of the No Lemon Benefit; or (iii) our costs to fulfill your claims exceed the original purchase price of your product."


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/global-p...at340200050006
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post #9642 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
Ummmmm, you best read some of the fine print of Best Buys protection plans about what their obligations are. And pay attention to how they use the words of "at our option" as far as replacing, and also "current market value" if they decide to only give you a payout instead.

And at the end, there is the big gotcha, of "exceed the original purchase price"!


"
  1. Our Obligations:
    1. At our option, we will repair or replace your product with a refurbished product of like kind and quality or a new product or compensate you for the current market value of the product in the form of a gift card.
    2. We will have no further obligations to you under the Plan if (i) we replace your product with a new product; (ii) for mobile phones and tablets, you have reached your claim limit; (iii) we provide you with a new or refurbished product based on the terms of the No Lemon Benefit; or (iii) our costs to fulfill your claims exceed the original purchase price of your product."


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/global-p...at340200050006
Well there ya go, their plan seems worth whole lot less now. Thanks for that post! I probably won't purchase it.

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post #9643 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 06:33 PM
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3 HDMI outputs - what does this actually mean???

Hi, I've read that the 4520ci comes with 3 HDMI Outputs.

I want to be able to send video and audio via HDMI to three tvs. Is this possible with this Amp?

I don't mind if the two of the tvs show the same source

E.g. One tv shows cable, second and third tvs show bluray player etc

If I can't use HDMI can I use regular video cable and will I see any lowering of quality - would it still be HD?

Thanks
rc
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post #9644 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Robcameron View Post
Hi, I've read that the 4520ci comes with 3 HDMI Outputs.

I want to be able to send video and audio via HDMI to three tvs. Is this possible with this Amp?

I don't mind if the two of the tvs show the same source

E.g. One tv shows cable, second and third tvs show bluray player etc

If I can't use HDMI can I use regular video cable and will I see any lowering of quality - would it still be HD?

Thanks
rc

You have two outputs that show the same source, and a third that can show a different source.
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post #9645 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 07:50 PM
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4520 not keeping Audyssey results

I've had my 4520 for 1 week and have run audyssey twice and find that at some point during a movie if I go to Setup, Audio, Audyssey....my options are "MultiEQ XT32 Off or Graphic EQ - it's like I never ran Audyssey. Any idea why my calibrations are being discarded. Thanks for any help. Firmware is latest.

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post #9646 of 12636 Old 09-15-2014, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sigh. I remember the good old days when this thread focused on providing useful technical advice to new owners. Lately, it is more like the TV show, "The Price is Right".
Don't worry, I have some head-scratchers coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
Warren/Jerry Et Al, Us newbies are already here. thanks to you guys.
Yes, thanks especially to Warren for the ad/coupon. I think I'm the one that killed that coupon; the rep scanned it in as he rang me up. I had been researching AVRs for a couple of months and was still on the fence with this unit on my short list at $1500, and the minor feature variations between the units I was looking at became irrelevant at $900.

I am really loving the unit so far. Mine is a 405XX S/N with current firmware. I finished installing it yesterday late afternoon and my wife and I spent the evening rocking out. The initial Audyssey calibration seemed to go well enough. I just ran cal in one mic position on the two mains and the sub at first to get the sub level in the ballpark -- mid-gain on a Klipsch 12" netted -3.5db. I finished hooking up the surrounds and ran a full 8-position calibration with the mic on a photographic light stand/boom.

First thing I noticed was overall low volume, so I went to each input in the 4520 menu and upped the gain. Initially I set Dynamic EQ off and compression off. Some initial tests seemed a bit light on the bass so I set the sub to 0db. I know I have a lot of tweaking to do but for the first run I was really, really impressed with the clarity and presence. Unfortunately my center and surround drivers run out of gas before the mains, so to really push the envelope I had to switch to stereo mode.

When trying to push it to 11, I ran into my first problem. OR, question, let's say. Whether running music via Airplay or HDMI from my PS3, the volume won't go above -6. If I spin the volume knob or use the remote I can get it to flash between -6 and -5.5, but then it always settles on -6. Anyone have any thoughts as to how to begin to investigate this problem? I don't remember the correct nomenclature for the -10 or -20 volume limit/reference/whatever setting but that is off.

Second question/problem... When listening to Airplay, if I try to launch and use the iOS Denon control app, the music stops and the app freezes. I don't seem to see this behavior with HDMI sources. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some hidden setting that makes it behave?

OK, last one for now... I find that sometimes when switching sources, the video will syc, then fuzz out and blank, then sync on about a 5-10 second cycle, ... repeating then never staying synced. Since it does the same thing on different inputs and can be resolved by either power cycling the TV or(less reliably) by unplugging/plugging the Monitor 1 HDMI cable I hope it's either the cable or the TV(an elderly Westinghouse). Anyone else seen this sort of behavior?

I do have other questions but I'm pretty sure the RTFM calibration and/or more experience will address most of those.

Thanks again for the heads-up on the price, and thanks to everyone for being part of a great resource.

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post #9647 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:16 AM
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I believe the inputs have their own adjustable volume limits. I remember seeing the default set at -6 in some menu or other.

I am also having trouble with the video output, and I am pretty sure it is the unit and not something else in my setup. I routinely cannot get a picture out of one or both of the in-use outputs.
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post #9648 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
What if you bought their best warranty?
Does that change anything?
that puts you MUCH higher in the pecking order of receiving another product of "like"

I have been on both sides of the spectrum with a BB service agreement and it was purely manager discretion

The fine print on the service contract says they are under no obligation to give you a more valuable product than what you purchased

Warren

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post #9649 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
Well there ya go, their plan seems worth whole lot less now. Thanks for that post! I probably won't purchase it.
first off

they have the BEST plan out there
they also have about the most expensive plan out there...far more than ST and others

Its been my experience that if they somewhat know you
the manager can override some of these rules and will

but being elite status etc does help you

I once bought an Onkyo 807 for 70% off retail...it crapped out and they tried to repair it twice
The manager gave me 100% MSRP back towards another receiver in the store....so $700 more than what I paid for the 807
I then turned around and bought a Yamaha A3000

Warren

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post #9650 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
Well there ya go, their plan seems worth whole lot less now. Thanks for that post! I probably won't purchase it.
Their plans have been this way for years now. In the old days you would bring a defective item in and they would give you a gift card for the full purchase. Although the one thing I always disliked about the BB warranties was that they overlapped the manufacturer warranty. So with a device like the 4520 that comes with a 3 year warranty, you only get one extra year with the =4 year Best Buy warranty.

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post #9651 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:41 AM
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I got my Axiom M3 for front heights yesterday. Unfortunately, after being stuck in customs for a week, both speakers were damaged in a couple of spots on the housing. And one had the tweeter dented in. So at least Axiom is sending a replacement pair. So they told me to go ahead and use them. And while they are not mounted on the wall. They are one foot above and two feet behind my FL/FR speakers. They do seem to enlarge the sound stage at their current location. The soundfield with DSX added seems to give me the best sound instead of PLIIz. But I guess once I get them mounted on the wall in their permanent positions I will need to decide then what sounds best. But overall I am glad I got the front heights. And also glad my refurb 4520 had no issues with the 8th and 9th amps.

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post #9652 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post
I've had my 4520 for 1 week and have run audyssey twice and find that at some point during a movie if I go to Setup, Audio, Audyssey....my options are "MultiEQ XT32 Off or Graphic EQ - it's like I never ran Audyssey. Any idea why my calibrations are being discarded. Thanks for any help. Firmware is latest.
After completing the calibrations did you click Store?
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post #9653 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
After completing the calibrations did you click Store?
yes, both times
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post #9654 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
first off

they have the BEST plan out there
they also have about the most expensive plan out there...far more than ST and others

Its been my experience that if they somewhat know you
the manager can override some of these rules and will

but being elite status etc does help you

I once bought an Onkyo 807 for 70% off retail...it crapped out and they tried to repair it twice
The manager gave me 100% MSRP back towards another receiver in the store....so $700 more than what I paid for the 807
I then turned around and bought a Yamaha A3000

Warren
^^
This is what I was referring to.
What's in writing and what a mgr/sales person does are two different things.
Extended warranties are like insurance.
It can be a gamble and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
I normally don't get them but sometimes I do.
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post #9655 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
^^
This is what I was referring to.
What's in writing and what a mgr/sales person does are two different things.
Extended warranties are like insurance.
It can be a gamble and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
I normally don't get them but sometimes I do.
the warranties are definitely a profit center for them

they also might be underwriting their own warranties that they sell as well...which would give them more leverage

I know they have regional service centers now that service electronics that are sent in for repair under their warranty plan

IMO...the warranties are a little higher cost than average. They do adjust as the items price is reduced...but they are never as inexpensive as an outfit like Square trade
The other element is if you ever have to ship( and insure) the unit for service. That one expense on an AVR could be the difference in the BB warranty vs brand x

This could especially true of the Onkyo thx ultra rated units that weigh about 60lbs

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Pioneer SC77 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #9656 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Their plans have been this way for years now. In the old days you would bring a defective item in and they would give you a gift card for the full purchase. Although the one thing I always disliked about the BB warranties was that they overlapped the manufacturer warranty. So with a device like the 4520 that comes with a 3 year warranty, you only get one extra year with the =4 year Best Buy warranty.
In my experience factory warranties are difficult to claim and can take months to get your unit sent back repaired or get a refurb. I am not sure about denons warranty as I have never made a claim with them, I hope they have great service. As far as BB plan, it's nice to have the option to get something repaired locally or perhaps even replaced the same day should BB work with you on it. I'm still on the fence about purchasing it, though my relationship with BB has been rocky, because of their sometimes lackluster service, it has been long in development. I hope they would choose to take care of a loyal customer that spends what I do in their stores.
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post #9657 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 10:02 AM
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So now that I've had some time to read up on Atmos I think I want to add that to my setup. However as I've also just discovered, the 4250CI doesn't support it. Does anyone know if this will be updated in the near future or the unit will never get it? If not it looks like I may be getting a new receiver and have been looking at the 7009 but it doesn't have the same power as the 4250ci.

Lastly, can anyone point me to some atmos speaker modules they recommend? I have B&W CM series speakers now.
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post #9658 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DESCypher View Post
So now that I've had some time to read up on Atmos I think I want to add that to my setup. However as I've also just discovered, the 4250CI doesn't support it. Does anyone know if this will be updated in the near future or the unit will never get it? If not it looks like I may be getting a new receiver and have been looking at the 7009 but it doesn't have the same power as the 4250ci.

Lastly, can anyone point me to some atmos speaker modules they recommend? I have B&W CM series speakers now.
Atmos cannot be added to older models via firmware. It requires an enormous amount of processing power and the newer receivers that support it have more / newer DSP to enabled the processing.

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post #9659 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 10:10 AM
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Atmos cannot be added to older models via firmware. It requires an enormous amount of processing power and the newer receivers that support it have more / newer DSP to enabled the processing.
Thank you for the info; good to know. I guess time to search for that next receiver then. Too bad really loved this unit too and for a good price.
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post #9660 of 12636 Old 09-16-2014, 10:11 AM
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Warren makes the best point of ALL.

At BB, the warranty you think you bought is not what you actually buy because of all the fine print. The Reps really have NO CLUE and all they are seeing are $$ Signs because that is the only thing they get paid extra on or used to.

IT IS YOUR LUCK AND THE MOOD OF THE BB REP who services your when you go to the store for WARRANTY issues.

I had an issue with a Sony Playstation one and one store told they wont honor the warranty. Went to the next store 5 miles away and they gave me credit for the original purchase price ( which is the most you should be able to get any way ).
Elite or No Elite BB cannot be responsible for a bad Unit and if there is no stock left. Again YOUR STORE MGR may really want you there because you buy a TON of stuff and do something for you but I doubt he can reduce a units price that much if it was not on sale. Unless you bought 100K worth of stuff from them and they made 90K on it ofcourse.

Let's hope you get a great unit and never have an issue :-) :-).
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