The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 325 - AVS Forum
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post #9721 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 11:49 AM
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Hate to be a pest...but can anyone answer this question I posted a bit ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkscherk View Post
I just swapped my 4810 for the 4520 last night. I was surprised how much they made the setup process pretty idiot-proof. They've tried very hard to make the person with little experience be able to get through the configuration part. I however, have been doing this for a long time and found it more of a time consuming activity than otherwise just going into the settings menus.

However, I am stumped on one thing right now. I configured my setup using front wides and I took advantage for the amp assign function to turn off the internal amps on all but the surround and surround back channels as I use a 5-channel external amp to drive my front 5 array. But when I go into the 'Audyssey' setup under the 'Audio' menu item, the 'Audyssey DSX' parameters are all greyed out and don't allow selection or changing.

My only thought at this point is that this menu setup area is not global in nature, and can me made for each input.....and the input I was on was using a Surround setting of stereo, so the DSX parameters would not apply. Can anyone confirm if that is true, or if not, provide and answer to why the DSX settings weren't enabled. If my theory is true, this is a real pain in the ass to have to make all of these settings for each input used.
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post #9722 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM
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Got mine. $789 for the open box, no microphone. They would not accept the coupon--and I actually moved across the state just to get it!--because they said the computer wouldn't take it for the open box model ... oh well.

Now I just have to come up with that microphone ... and sell my ancient 3802.
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post #9723 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Got mine. $789 for the open box, no microphone. They would not accept the coupon--and I actually moved across the state just to get it!--because they said the computer wouldn't take it for the open box model ... oh well.

Now I just have to come up with that microphone ... and sell my ancient 3802.
One BB I went to claimed the coupon did not apply to Open Box Items and would not even try applying it. Another BB I went to didn't think it would work but I urged him to try and the computer accepted it. I think they are just hesitant to do so when the price is so low. Still a good deal though.
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post #9724 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
Yes I've set it up and I'm in love anew. Ill check the cord but I've used the same cord that come with PC power supplies on all kinds of amps for years without issues. I personally wouldn't fret too much about it, but perhaps I'm wrong?
Thanks - just gives me ease of mind that I don't have an improper cable that could cause a fire or anything.
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post #9725 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by veeha View Post
One BB I went to claimed the coupon did not apply to Open Box Items and would not even try applying it. Another BB I went to didn't think it would work but I urged him to try and the computer accepted it. I think they are just hesitant to do so when the price is so low. Still a good deal though.
Ah, but now I wonder if the BB guy was lying when he said the computer wouldn't accept my coupon ... He went through the motions of scanning it, or seemed to at least ...

Anyone else buy an open box model and use the coupon? Maybe if enough of you made it through I'll go back and point out this thread and see if I can get my discount too ...
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post #9726 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Ah, but now I wonder if the BB guy was lying when he said the computer wouldn't accept my coupon ... He went through the motions of scanning it, or seemed to at least ...

Anyone else buy an open box model and use the coupon? Maybe if enough of you made it through I'll go back and point out this thread and see if I can get my discount too ...
The employee scanned the coupon after the manager came over to approve a change to the open box price so don't know if that approval carried over to the mover's coupon.

But take a look at this link and ask him which exception applies to Open Box Items because I can't seem to find it...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/regularc...DCMP=rdr117747
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post #9727 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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Well ... in that link it says "products from the following brands are excluded from this offer ... " and it lists Denon after that ...
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post #9728 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
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Since a lot of us will be reading the audyssey setup manual for the proper configuration, I thought I would share my finding with you all.
After I ran the audyssey setup, I went in the speaker config and changed all speakers to small and set the xover at 80hz, just like the audyssey manual says. In testing out my new baby, the sound was good but not great. After a little digging around I discovered MultEQ xt32 no longer needs those settings, it is recommended by audyssey that xover settings stay where the receivers set them, the only thing you have to change is the speaker size from large to small if the receiver sets them to large. I re-ran my setup, changed the speaker size and left everything the way the receiver set it. Night and Day difference, this thing is awesome.

Also if you put amp assign on custom and are using front wides, it seems as if you have to either use pre-amps or change you connection in the back of the receiver from front wide to front heights then change the front height assignment to front wide. this doesn't make since to me, it this correct?
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post #9729 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Well ... in that link it says "products from the following brands are excluded from this offer ... " and it lists Denon after that ...
Maybe don't show him that link after all
Wonder if coupon exclusions are programmed into the computer at all then. Or maybe inaccurately.
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post #9730 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrold14 View Post
Since a lot of us will be reading the audyssey setup manual for the proper configuration, I thought I would share my finding with you all.
After I ran the audyssey setup, I went in the speaker config and changed all speakers to small and set the xover at 80hz, just like the audyssey manual says. In testing out my new baby, the sound was good but not great. After a little digging around I discovered MultEQ xt32 no longer needs those settings, it is recommended by audyssey that xover settings stay where the receivers set them, the only thing you have to change is the speaker size from large to small if the receiver sets them to large. I re-ran my setup, changed the speaker size and left everything the way the receiver set it. Night and Day difference, this thing is awesome.
Very interesting as I ran XT32 last night and changed my mains and surrounds from Large to Small and adjusted the crossovers. I was unimpressed with the results.

I was beginning to think my external amp being out of the picture was my issue. The B&K is staying but I want to see what this AVR can do on its own- so far I am underwhelmed. I am hoping that will change with the amp back in place.

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post #9731 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkscherk View Post
Hate to be a pest...but can anyone answer this question I posted a bit ago?

I just swapped my 4810 for the 4520 last night. I was surprised how much they made the setup process pretty idiot-proof. They've tried very hard to make the person with little experience be able to get through the configuration part. I however, have been doing this for a long time and found it more of a time consuming activity than otherwise just going into the settings menus.

However, I am stumped on one thing right now. I configured my setup using front wides and I took advantage for the amp assign function to turn off the internal amps on all but the surround and surround back channels as I use a 5-channel external amp to drive my front 5 array. But when I go into the 'Audyssey' setup under the 'Audio' menu item, the 'Audyssey DSX' parameters are all greyed out and don't allow selection or changing.

My only thought at this point is that this menu setup area is not global in nature, and can me made for each input.....and the input I was on was using a Surround setting of stereo, so the DSX parameters would not apply. Can anyone confirm if that is true, or if not, provide and answer to why the DSX settings weren't enabled. If my theory is true, this is a real pain in the ass to have to make all of these settings for each input used.
It sounds to me like a setting is off somewhere, probably Amp Assign. If for example the Amp Assign setting you are using is for a 7ch setup and you have surr.back speakers active that's all 7 channels and the wides won't be available.

These fundamental speaker settings are global, not input specific.

Instead of using the custom amp assign (which isn't really necessary given that you are running a "standard" 9ch setup) try using the 9.1ch mode and set "Main Speakers" to "S.Back/F.Wide" to let the receiver know you have those speakers active in main zone. Then re-run Audyssey and see if it works.

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post #9732 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It sounds to me like a setting is off somewhere, probably Amp Assign. If for example the Amp Assign setting you are using is for a 7ch setup and you have surr.back speakers active that's all 7 channels and the wides won't be available.

These fundamental speaker settings are global, not input specific.

Instead of using the custom amp assign (which isn't really necessary given that you are running a "standard" 9ch setup) try using the 9.1ch mode and set "Main Speakers" to "S.Back/F.Wide" to let the receiver know you have those speakers active in main zone. Then re-run Audyssey and see if it works.

Thanks for the tip.. I'll give it a shot. I thought I'd be sneaky and try to turn off the amps I wasn't using to keep power consumption and heat down....but maybe it can't deal with that approach. I'll post back what I find.
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post #9733 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
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Hey fellas.

I just added an Beringer Inuke 3000dsp to power my new JTR 215 mains. The AVR has been shutting down and going into protect mode. This continued to happen and then I went into amp assign and put the front speakers in pre out mode. Is this correct? Do the amps need to be in pre out to add a 2 channel amp? It did stop shutting down after I did that. Thanks.

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post #9734 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Hey fellas.

I just added an Beringer Inuke 3000dsp to power my new JTR 215 mains. The AVR has been shutting down and going into protect mode. This continued to happen and then I went into amp assign and put the front speakers in pre out mode. Is this correct? Do the amps need to be in pre out to add a 2 channel amp? It did stop shutting down after I did that. Thanks.
No, there is no need to do that, the pre-outs are always hot.

Are you sure you didn't do anything silly like keep the speaker wires hooked up to the receiver? Something sounds fishy, people hook up external amps to receivers all the time.

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Gotta guestion.

Set up my brand new 4520 this past Tuesday and have been trying to get familiar with it since then and still am.
I have been trying to put it through its paces by playing a few cds, sacds and streams via Roku3.

This afternoon i decided to play a Blu-ray disc that would really test it. I threw in a Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Rings.
Volume was set at -35db. After playing for about 2 hours, the sound suddenly cut off, not unlike an Onkyo receiver hdmi board issue!
I touched the top of the receiver and noticed it was extremely hot. I did not hear any fan. The only speakers shown on the receiver LCD screen were the FL and FR. The center, surrounds and 2 subs were all missing.

I turned it off, and detached its power cable and waited for about 5-10 mins before attaching the power cable and turning it back on and resumed playing the movie with sound restored and the receiver no longer hot but merely warm.

Is this normal behavior?
Does the receiver not have fans that should start when it gets very hot?

I had planned on getting an external fan as an insurance to ensure its longevity but i am still concerned and disappointed it would "fail" in this way without the benefit of an external fan assuming that is the "fix" for this behavior.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QJ4ZE2/...I2WJI3VSY3BLW2

I must add, the receiver sits in a space that is about 5" clear on either side and 4" on the top.

Receiver: Denon AVR-4520CISpeakers:Fronts: Polk Rti A7 /Center: Polk csiA6 /Surrounds: Polk Fxi A6SUB: Rythmik LV12R X2Source: Pioneer BDP62FDDisplay:Panasonic TC P50S60[/SIZE]
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post #9736 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 04:29 PM
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Does this receiver seem to be low volume for anyone else? Even at +1.5db it was not too loud; my Yamaha was approaching too loud at -8.5, where the Denon is actually too quiet.

The Audyssey FAQ says "Fortunately, these levels are louder than most people can tolerate in a normal domestic environment and people usually set the Master Volume to something like -10dB to -20dB when listening to movies". -10 to -20 would be far too quiet for me with the Denon, almost laughably so.
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post #9737 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Does this receiver seem to be low volume for anyone else? Even at +1.5db it was not too loud; my Yamaha was approaching too loud at -8.5, where the Denon is actually too quiet.

The Audyssey FAQ says "Fortunately, these levels are louder than most people can tolerate in a normal domestic environment and people usually set the Master Volume to something like -10dB to -20dB when listening to movies". -10 to -20 would be far too quiet for me with the Denon, almost laughably so.
I have my volume upper limit set at -10dB which is already very loud. I rarely go above -20dB. And that might be for a Fox show which drops the volume by -7dB from the Dial Norm(most other networks have -4dB for DialNorm). I'm normally in the -20dB to -30dB range. Higher volume and closer to -20dB for TV because of Dial Norm and lower volume and closer to -30dB for BD content..

In my setup -20dB for BD would be too loud. If I took it up to -10dB for a BD then I would probably have someone knocking on my door, it would be so loud.

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post #9738 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM
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What video processor does this receiver have?
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post #9739 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
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Okay, then it seems like something fishy must be going on here. Why would the volume show so much louder than it presumably is? I ran Audyssey and used all 8 locations, mic pointing straight up on a tripod at ear level.
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post #9740 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmundo Lopez View Post
What video processor does this receiver have?
This one: http://www.analog.com/en/audiovideo-...s/product.html

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post #9741 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Very interesting as I ran XT32 last night and changed my mains and surrounds from Large to Small and adjusted the crossovers. I was unimpressed with the results.

I was beginning to think my external amp being out of the picture was my issue. The B&K is staying but I want to see what this AVR can do on its own- so far I am underwhelmed. I am hoping that will change with the amp back in place.
I was in the same boat as you. I have old Marantz mono block amps I was using with my old setup, I did not connect them to the 4520, I wanted to see what the receiver could do. Just like you, I was not please with the results so that's when I started digging around because I was thinking that it was no way possible that this receiver sounds like this. Also if your not using a tripod or a boom mic, I would suggest using one. With my last setup and even the start of this setup I was standing the mic straight up on anything I could get my hands on. I recently went to target and purchased a tripod for $13 and it also made a big difference with the calibration. The combination of the two made me very very happy with this receiver. I will probably leave the amps out. Good luck and let me km now how you make out.
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post #9742 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Okay, then it seems like something fishy must be going on here. Why would the volume show so much louder than it presumably is? I ran Audyssey and used all 8 locations, mic pointing straight up on a tripod at ear level.
Are you sure there aren't any volume compression settings engaged? Dynamic Volume, DRC, Loudness Comp, etc. Is the soft volume across all sources? Have you used a "good" known source like an action movie Blu-ray to test?

I can tell you from experience with many Denons that by the time you cross -10 it should be really, really loud. And not many systems can get to 0dB (reference) cleanly with a demanding Blu-ray soundtrack.

Something is definitely up. To some degree it could be that the sound is "cleaner" (possibly due to the superior room correction, maybe better amps) and lower distortion will allow you to play louder without the subjective impression of loudness.... but it sounds like that's not what's happening here.

Do you have an SPL meter? Can you verify some basics, e.g. all speakers measure within a few dB of 75dB with the internal test tones and volume at 0? And maybe pop in an action flick on Blu-ray, with the volume at -10 you should be getting average levels around 75dB and peaks of 90dB+.

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post #9743 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
No, there is no need to do that, the pre-outs are always hot.

Are you sure you didn't do anything silly like keep the speaker wires hooked up to the receiver? Something sounds fishy, people hook up external amps to receivers all the time.
Everything is set right wire wise. I don't know what the problem is. It has shut down once and that is cause I beat the snot out of it, but that is before I had an amp hooked up . I have the AVR is Preout now and it is fine?

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post #9744 of 9749 Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Most likely probability is your speakers have a positive trim on each channel level. Take 18 (max) minus your highest trim channel level and that is your new max. So if you had a channel trim level at +12, then your new max volume is 6dB
Bingo! That was it. Unfortunately, the reason that surround speaker was set to +12 is that it is playing at a sharply reduced volume. I went in to the tone generator section and the difference between that speaker and its counterpart is astounding. I hadn't noticed since I have mostly been evaluating the mains in stereo mode at high volume.

Then I swapped the wires between the surrounds, and the problem moved to the other side -- which would seem to indicate something wrong with that amp on that side. May be a return/swap in my future, unless there is an outside chance that a reset might fix this.

OTOH, maybe this is a blessing -- if, after the swap, the HDMI issue goes away then I can assume(as I have done for years) that the cable and monitor are OK.
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The AVR4520 can be made to show diagnostic information about its last shutdown. It was posted way back in this forum by an unpopular person, but here it is again.

Step1. Bring the unit into the diagnostic mode
a. Start off in standby mode, red light on but not flashing. Open the front control panel.
b. Press the "Power operation" button to turn on power while pressing the "ZONE/REC SELECT" and "STATUS" buttons.
Wait until the display shows the two lines before releasing the buttons.
> 1. SERVICE CHECK
2. PROTECTION
c. Press the "Cursor Up/Down" button to select the 2. PROTECTION mode then press the "ENTER" button to restart the set.
The unit will re-start.

Step2. Display the reason for the last shutdown.
a. Press the STATUS button when the unit has restarted and the green power light stops flashing.
One of several reasons should show:
over-CURRENT
DC-det
THERMAL*, etc.

Step3. Turn off diagnostic mode.
a. Press the power button to turnoff unit into standby again. This de-activates the diagnostics. Next power up will then be a normal power up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by slimDub13 View Post
Gotta guestion.

Set up my brand new 4520 this past Tuesday and have been trying to get familiar with it since then and still am.
I have been trying to put it through its paces by playing a few cds, sacds and streams via Roku3.

This afternoon i decided to play a Blu-ray disc that would really test it. I threw in a Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Rings.
Volume was set at -35db. After playing for about 2 hours, the sound suddenly cut off, not unlike an Onkyo receiver hdmi board issue!
I touched the top of the receiver and noticed it was extremely hot. I did not hear any fan. The only speakers shown on the receiver LCD screen were the FL and FR. The center, surrounds and 2 subs were all missing.

I turned it off, and detached its power cable and waited for about 5-10 mins before attaching the power cable and turning it back on and resumed playing the movie with sound restored and the receiver no longer hot but merely warm.

Is this normal behavior?
Does the receiver not have fans that should start when it gets very hot?

I had planned on getting an external fan as an insurance to ensure its longevity but i am still concerned and disappointed it would "fail" in this way without the benefit of an external fan assuming that is the "fix" for this behavior.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QJ4ZE2/...I2WJI3VSY3BLW2

I must add, the receiver sits in a space that is about 5" clear on either side and 4" on the top.
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Okay, then it seems like something fishy must be going on here. Why would the volume show so much louder than it presumably is? I ran Audyssey and used all 8 locations, mic pointing straight up on a tripod at ear level.
What speaker trims did Audyssey set?


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post #9747 of 9749 Old Today, 03:12 AM
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Question re 4520's video processing section. Right now don't have it really doing anything (setting is in the "off" position) which I think means that it is just passing through the signal that it is fed, and sending it on my Sony VPL-HW55ES projector. My projector is a 1080P native projector. Right now I assume the projector is scaling/deinterlacing content from my DirecTV DVR which is a mix of 480p/720p/1080i. Based on reading the the link in batpig's response in post 9741 - it seems like our receivers have a pretty capable (if poorly marketed by Denon) video processor. Should I be using it to scale/deinterlace all content -- so it feeds the projector a nothing but 1080p signal?

If it matters -- between the AVR and the PJ -- I have a Darbee Darblet DBP-5000.

Thanks in advance!

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post #9748 of 9749 Old Today, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
Question re 4520's video processing section. Right now don't have it really doing anything (setting is in the "off" position) which I think means that it is just passing through the signal that it is fed, and sending it on my Sony VPL-HW55ES projector. My projector is a 1080P native projector. Right now I assume the projector is scaling/deinterlacing content from my DirecTV DVR which is a mix of 480p/720p/1080i. Based on reading the the link in batpig's response in post 9741 - it seems like our receivers have a pretty capable (if poorly marketed by Denon) video processor. Should I be using it to scale/deinterlace all content -- so it feeds the projector a nothing but 1080p signal?

If it matters -- between the AVR and the PJ -- I have a Darbee Darblet DBP-5000.

Thanks in advance!
You have three places where the up-scaling can be done, the DTV device, the 4520, and your PJ.

Starting with the DVR, if it is set to output Native mode, then it is doing no up-scaling. Otherwise, the DVR is doing the up-scaling.

Moving on to the 4520, video conversion should always be set to On, because this provides the on-screen display, such as the volume control. Next, the up-scaler can be turned on, and the max setting should be 1080p, not 1080p/24 (which, according to my experiments, results in a lower quality PQ).

And, of course, if you leave the DVR in Native, and the 4520 up-scaler off, then the PJ does the up-scaling. The only way to determine where to up-scale is to try all three, and compare the resulting PQ. If the difference is visually obvious, then choose the best one. If the difference is subtle, you may need specialized test patterns from a disk to determine which mode is best. Spears&Munsil ver 2 Blu-Ray is a good disk.

I output Native from the DVR, and up-scalet to 1080p on the 4520. For my Oppo Blu-Ray, I up-convert on the Oppo, and have up-scaling off on the 4520.

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