The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 326 - AVS Forum
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post #9751 of 9770 Old Today, 06:15 AM
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I know this is a noob question but I have to ask because I want to be sure. I need to find my reference with the Inuke paired with my 4520. Do I turn all the gains down on the dsp setting in the inuke to 0 db? There is also a PEQ, should I bypass it to run audyssey. My mains are set to large and maxed out at 12 db. I want to level match, but I want to be sure reference at 0 is correct. Thx.

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post #9752 of 9770 Old Today, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Are you sure there aren't any volume compression settings engaged? Dynamic Volume, DRC, Loudness Comp, etc. Is the soft volume across all sources? Have you used a "good" known source like an action movie Blu-ray to test?
Dynamic Volume is off, and the others aren't even available as options. Volume seems low across all sources. I've used the same scenes from blurays I'm familiar with on the Yamaha to test.

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I can tell you from experience with many Denons that by the time you cross -10 it should be really, really loud. And not many systems can get to 0dB (reference) cleanly with a demanding Blu-ray soundtrack.
Yeah, I don't really believe the volume is accurate. It seems impossible to believe that Gravity or Godzilla are really playing at +1.5.

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Do you have an SPL meter? Can you verify some basics, e.g. all speakers measure within a few dB of 75dB with the internal test tones and volume at 0? And maybe pop in an action flick on Blu-ray, with the volume at -10 you should be getting average levels around 75dB and peaks of 90dB+.
Unfortunately I don't have an SPL meter, other than the worthless Android app version.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
What speaker trims did Audyssey set?
+/- 0.5 for all speakers and sub if I recall correctly.
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post #9753 of 9770 Old Today, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
The AVR4520 can be made to show diagnostic information about its last shutdown. It was posted way back in this forum by an unpopular person, but here it is again.

Step1. Bring the unit into the diagnostic mode
a. Start off in standby mode, red light on but not flashing. Open the front control panel.
b. Press the "Power operation" button to turn on power while pressing the "ZONE/REC SELECT" and "STATUS" buttons.
Wait until the display shows the two lines before releasing the buttons.
> 1. SERVICE CHECK
2. PROTECTION
c. Press the "Cursor Up/Down" button to select the 2. PROTECTION mode then press the "ENTER" button to restart the set.
The unit will re-start.

Step2. Display the reason for the last shutdown.
a. Press the STATUS button when the unit has restarted and the green power light stops flashing.
One of several reasons should show:
over-CURRENT
DC-det
THERMAL*, etc.

Step3. Turn off diagnostic mode.
a. Press the power button to turnoff unit into standby again. This de-activates the diagnostics. Next power up will then be a normal power up.
Thanks a lot.
I'll give this a try.

I had planned on calling Denon Support.
I'll give this a try first.

Receiver: Denon AVR-4520CISpeakers:Fronts: Polk Rti A7 /Center: Polk csiA6 /Surrounds: Polk Fxi A6SUB: Rythmik LV12R X2Source: Pioneer BDP62FDDisplay:Panasonic TC P50S60[/SIZE]
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post #9754 of 9770 Old Today, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You have three places where the up-scaling can be done, the DTV device, the 4520, and your PJ.

Starting with the DVR, if it is set to output Native mode, then it is doing no up-scaling. Otherwise, the DVR is doing the up-scaling.

Moving on to the 4520, video conversion should always be set to On, because this provides the on-screen display, such as the volume control. Next, the up-scaler can be turned on, and the max setting should be 1080p, not 1080p/24 (which, according to my experiments, results in a lower quality PQ).

And, of course, if you leave the DVR in Native, and the 4520 up-scaler off, then the PJ does the up-scaling. The only way to determine where to up-scale is to try all three, and compare the resulting PQ. If the difference is visually obvious, then choose the best one. If the difference is subtle, you may need specialized test patterns from a disk to determine which mode is best. Spears&Munsil ver 2 Blu-Ray is a good disk.

I output Native from the DVR, and up-scalet to 1080p on the 4520. For my Oppo Blu-Ray, I up-convert on the Oppo, and have up-scaling off on the 4520.
Thanks for tips.

I am taking it on faith (or perhaps negative faith) that the scaler in my HR21-200 (DirecTV DVR) is rubbish - so I have always had it on Native. So that leaves either the Sony 55ES or the 4520. I will try both -- but the 55ES takes a bit of time to relock onto the signal when changing resolutions. For example -- Fox Sports broadcasts football games at 720P and ESPN at 1080i (the former claims that motion blur is better at 720P, although I prefer the look of the latter's broadcasts) -- so if I am switching back and forth between my beloved Mizzou Tigers (on ESPN or SECN) and whatever mediocre Big 12 () team that Fox is showing -- it takes a bit of time for the 55ES to lock on.

So I will try allowing the 4520 to do the scaling and see if that helps, and if the PQ is better.

BTW -- I have Digital Video Essentials (on HD-DVD) will that work adequately in lieu of Spears & Munsil?

Thanks!

CT

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post #9755 of 9770 Old Today, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I know this is a noob question but I have to ask because I want to be sure. I need to find my reference with the Inuke paired with my 4520. Do I turn all the gains down on the dsp setting in the inuke to 0 db? There is also a PEQ, should I bypass it to run Audyssey. My mains are set to large and maxed out at 12 db. I want to level match, but I want to be sure reference at 0 is correct. Thx.
I have an SMS-1 and in the signal chain. So what I do when I calibrate is set the SMS-1 at unity gain (15 vol) and bypass all equalization. Then I run Audyssey XT32 and that sets all levels and distances (including accounting for the delay my SMS-1 adds to the subwoofer channel). Then - after the distances and levels are set -- I can use the SMS-1's PEQ to get the subwoofer output flatter.

So -- I am not familiar with the iNuke -- but I would set it to unity gain (which is probably 0db -- but check your manual) and bypass all equalization in the iNuke. Then run Audyssey. Don't worry about the speaker level trims in your 4520 -- Audyssey bypasses their existing settings and resets them based on its testing.

I think you said you have the iNuke powering your mains -- and unless you really know what you are doing -- I would not mess with PEQ settings on the mains. I think you also said you have sensitive 4ohm speakers -- if that is the case, consider just having your 4520 power them, and see if you like it. It has more than adequate amp section to power sensitive 4ohm speaks to reference levels. Then you can sell the iNukes.

Edit: Looking at your sig setup. You should set your mains to small cross them over at 80hz (cross everything at 80hz). Audyssey will almost certainly measure and set your mains to Large (full range). However, you can and should change this in your speaker settings. This is the one of two areas that Audyssey's settings are usually changed by the user: (1) changing all speakers to small and crossing at 80hz (unless Audyssey sets a higher Xover), and (2) adding positive trim to the sub channel to taste (do this in the AVR settings). In my case -- I leave my Seatons as the are set by Audyssey for Blu-Ray (at -5.0 db in my case), but add +3 db trim to the settings for DirecTV and my streaming music -- where the bass is often more attenuated.

With 2x Triax Subs -- you should let them handle everything below 80hz. They will do it better than your mains and center.

Good luck!

BTW -- your Nittany Lions picked up a great coach! Your gain is Vandy's loss.

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post #9756 of 9770 Old Today, 08:05 AM
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Whoop! just showed up... not one mark on the box. a first for UPS.
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post #9757 of 9770 Old Today, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
I have an SMS-1 and in the signal chain. So what I do when I calibrate is set the SMS-1 at unity gain (15 vol) and bypass all equalization. Then I run Audyssey XT32 and that sets all levels and distances (including accounting for the delay my SMS-1 adds to the subwoofer channel). Then - after the distances and levels are set -- I can use the SMS-1's PEQ to get the subwoofer output flatter.

So -- I am not familiar with the iNuke -- but I would set it to unity gain (which is probably 0db -- but check your manual) and bypass all equalization in the iNuke. Then run Audyssey. Don't worry about the speaker level trims in your 4520 -- Audyssey bypasses their existing settings and resets them based on its testing.

I think you said you have the iNuke powering your mains -- and unless you really know what you are doing -- I would not mess with PEQ settings on the mains. I think you also said you have sensitive 4ohm speakers -- if that is the case, consider just having your 4520 power them, and see if you like it. It has more than adequate amp section to power sensitive 4ohm speaks to reference levels. Then you can sell the iNukes.

Edit: Looking at your sig setup. You should set your mains to small cross them over at 80hz (cross everything at 80hz). Audyssey will almost certainly measure and set your mains to Large (full range). However, you can and should change this in your speaker settings. This is the one of two areas that Audyssey's settings are usually changed by the user: (1) changing all speakers to small and crossing at 80hz, and (2) adding positive trim to the sub channel to taste (do this in the AVR settings). In my case -- I leave my Seatons as the are set by Audyssey for Blu-Ray (at -5.0 db in my case), but add +3 db trim to the settings for DirecTV and my streaming music -- where the bass is often more attenuated.

With 2x Triax Subs -- you should let them handle everything below 80hz. They will do it better than your mains and center.

Good luck!

BTW -- you Nittany Lions picked up a great coach! Your gain is Vandy's loss.
Yes sir, not to shabby of a QB either. I thought it was over when O'brien left, but things are looking good. Franklin is a PA guy, so I think he is happy.


Thanks for the info. The 4520 is going to need some help with pushing my new ported monsters. The problem I have been having is that the 4520 has been shutting down with the external amp. I don't know whey as everything seems normal. I went into amp assign and put the front channels in pre out and it has not done it since. Even at lower volumes it would go into protect. At lower volumes it would shut down on big LFE scenes. I was running a demo bass disc, so loaded with LFE. Having sevel problems and I am trying to get balanced. I am using the inuke for the dsp and setting house curves. Works very well with the 215's

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post #9758 of 9770 Old Today, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Yes sir, not to shabby of a QB either. I thought it was over when O'brien left, but things are looking good. Franklin is a PA guy, so I think he is happy.


Thanks for the info. The 4520 is going to need some help with pushing my new ported monsters. The problem I have been having is that the 4520 has been shutting down with the external amp. I don't know whey as everything seems normal. I went into amp assign and put the front channels in pre out and it has not done it since. Even at lower volumes it would go into protect. At lower volumes it would shut down on big LFE scenes. I was running a demo bass disc, so loaded with LFE. Having sevel problems and I am trying to get balanced. I am using the inuke for the dsp and setting house curves. Works very well with the 215's
Are you using the the JTR 215's in full range? Do you have the Triax Subs in the system still? What is your LFE setting? If you have subs -- you should not run your mains at full range -- doing so will likely cause nulls (cancellation waves) that will actually decrease the amount of bass you hear.

Again -- looking at the specs of the JTR 215s (95db sensitivity and 4 ohm) - I think the AVR should be able to handle them at reference level and beyond. On a 4ohm load -- this receiver should be driving 250W+ RMS (I can't find a 4ohm spec on the web - but according to JD Smooth -- the AVR is designed to handle 4ohm loads at reference). Based on the JTR specs -- it should only take 1W to get to 95db (which is pretty loud). BTW -- the fact that they are ported will make them easier to drive. Don't let size fool you. My B&W HTM3S center is a sealed unit and is therefore harder to drive than my large 803 mains. So Audyssey sets the trim on the center at 0db and the trim on the mains at -5db to get them level matched.

I am not sure why the AVR is shutting down though -- that is weird (especially if it is not driving anything). It may need to be returned or get warranty service.

There are guys on this forum more knowledgeable than I -- so maybe they can lend some advice.

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post #9759 of 9770 Old Today, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pvherm View Post
BB would not accept the coupon on my open box 4520. The rep attempted to enter it into computer, but it was rejected. She told me her manager would not approve of the additional discount, something about "double-dipping". She seemed very competent and experienced (a rare occurrence at BB) so I chose to believe her. Still, a good price on a great receiver.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't part of an unlucky minority. Thanks for responding.
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Whoop! just showed up... not one mark on the box. a first for UPS.
Hey rpml, can you do me a big favor and tell me what it says on your power cord? Brand, model, and temperature rating?
Want to make sure I got the right one on my open box...
Thanks!!
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Originally Posted by veeha View Post
Hey rpml, can you do me a big favor and tell me what it says on your power cord? Brand, model, and temperature rating?
Want to make sure I got the right one on my open box...
Thanks!!
(ul) sjt e159216 vw-1 300V105C 2X14AWG BAOHING CSA SJT LL112007 VW-1 300V 105C 2X2.08MM(14AWG) LF

Looks like a normal computer core with the ground missing...
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Originally Posted by Rpml View Post
(ul) sjt e159216 vw-1 300V105C 2X14AWG BAOHING CSA SJT LL112007 VW-1 300V 105C 2X2.08MM(14AWG) LF

Looks like a normal computer core with the ground missing...
Phew finally someone helped this guy out lol. He's only got 10 posts total and eight of them have been asking what kind of power cord the 4520 came with.
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Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
Are you using the the JTR 215's in full range? Do you have the Triax Subs in the system still? What is your LFE setting? If you have subs -- you should not run your mains at full range -- doing so will likely cause nulls (cancellation waves) that will actually decrease the amount of bass you hear.

Again -- looking at the specs of the JTR 215s (95db sensitivity and 4 ohm) - I think the AVR should be able to handle them at reference level and beyond. On a 4ohm load -- this receiver should be driving 250W+ RMS (I can't find a 4ohm spec on the web - but according to JD Smooth -- the AVR is designed to handle 4ohm loads at reference). Based on the JTR specs -- it should only take 1W to get to 95db (which is pretty loud). BTW -- the fact that they are ported will make them easier to drive. Don't let size fool you. My B&W HTM3S center is a sealed unit and is therefore harder to drive than my large 803 mains. So Audyssey sets the trim on the center at 0db and the trim on the mains at -5db to get them level matched.

I am not sure why the AVR is shutting down though -- that is weird (especially if it is not driving anything). It may need to be returned or get warranty service.

There are guys on this forum more knowledgeable than I -- so maybe they can lend some advice.
I have to admit I have a bunch of tuning to do, I have just been fooling around. I just completed the construction on my home theater and have been slacking off finishing the room and playing around with the new speakers. I have only tinkered. I really need to sit-down and get things done right.

I bought these to run full range. I am not using the triax's with these speakers, actually you don't really need subs and that is coming from a bassohalic. I am doing a pair of DIY 18" ported subs to pair with the 215's. It is going to be insane.
The Triax's will be in my living room set up.

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post #9764 of 9770 Old Today, 09:54 AM
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Just curious.. since my harmony remote is about dead.. can these denon remotes be programmed to run XBMC?
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Originally Posted by Rpml View Post
(ul) sjt e159216 vw-1 300V105C 2X14AWG BAOHING CSA SJT LL112007 VW-1 300V 105C 2X2.08MM(14AWG) LF

Looks like a normal computer core with the ground missing...
Thanks! They gave me a thinner wire with lower temp rating. I'll see if I can ask them for the right one...
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I have to admit I have a bunch of tuning to do, I have just been fooling around. I just completed the construction on my home theater and have been slacking off finishing the room and playing around with the new speakers. I have only tinkered. I really need to sit-down and get things done right.

I bought these to run full range. I am not using the triax's with these speakers, actually you don't really need subs and that is coming from a bassohalic. I am doing a pair of DIY 18" ported subs to pair with the 215's. It is going to be insane.
The Triax's will be in my living room set up.
Well - it's worth a shot just powering off the AVR -- see what happens. I think you will be surprised. I would definitely run a sub if it were my theater. I love subs.

And as far as tuning and calibration -- you have the most sophisticated automated room correction out there in your 4520. Give it a shot, let it do its thing, and see if you like it.

I didn't see the build thread earlier -- great work. I assume that you are not actually in Anchorage, correct? Good luck!!

Go MIZZOU!!

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Thanks! They gave me a thinner wire with lower temp rating. I'll see if I can ask them for the right one...
Yeah.. this ave draws something like 750watts if i remember right.. dont' use anything under 14AWG (lower number is better.. higher worse) if you can find a computer cord thats 14awg that would be fine also.. 12awg better.. 16awg no good..
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post #9768 of 9770 Old Today, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Got mine. $789 for the open box, no microphone. They would not accept the coupon--and I actually moved across the state just to get it!--because they said the computer wouldn't take it for the open box model ... oh well.

Now I just have to come up with that microphone ... and sell my ancient 3802.
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One BB I went to claimed the coupon did not apply to Open Box Items and would not even try applying it. Another BB I went to didn't think it would work but I urged him to try and the computer accepted it. I think they are just hesitant to do so when the price is so low. Still a good deal though.
Best Buy has a coupon...only good this weekend...for an extra 10% off open box items
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Now I'm curious, I reused my onkyo power cord. It should be fine, but I'll double check the gauge later.
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Now I'm curious, I reused my onkyo power cord. It should be fine, but I'll double check the gauge later.
Lower gauge = more juice.

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