The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 337 - AVS Forum
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post #10081 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 07:53 AM
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I wouldn't base it solely on DAC's, that's why I asked the question and listed my setup. I'm seeking owner's advice that use the unit in a similar manner. This unit is flagship vs the others, so I want to know if it's worth the difference for my use.

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post #10082 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I wouldn't base it solely on DAC's, that's why I asked the question and listed my setup. I'm seeking owner's advice that use the unit in a similar manner. This unit is flagship vs the others, so I want to know if it's worth the difference for my use.
I agree with Jerry. But what is your priority list? The DACs won’t make a jot of audible difference, so if one unit is to be preferred over the other, then we need to know what your priorities are. Given that modern electronics contribute virtually nothing to the audible sound, the decision largely comes down to feature sets. Which unit has the features that you want and value the most? Only you can determine that. The one thing we can be sure of is that the DACs won’t make any audible difference between these two units.
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post #10083 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I doubt you would be able to hear any audio difference between 24-bit and 32-bit DAC's, especially since your listing is primarily movies. Base your decision on factors that will make a real difference.
Especially as there isn't any 32 bit content.
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post #10084 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 08:04 AM
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I'm looking for precise and impactful sound that isn't overly bright. Since all the units have XT32, I'm sure there won't be much difference in equalization, but I want the most possible dynamic range - so finesse when needed with ample power when needed. I don't listen to any 2 ch music in the main listening area. I'm coming from an Onkyo NR1010 that had plent of punch, but was very bright and lacked some finesse that I had in my last unit.

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post #10085 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 08:17 AM
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I should also mention that I can get the 4520 and the SR7008 for the same price and the X4000 for only slightly less.

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post #10086 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I'm looking for precise and impactful sound that isn't overly bright. Since all the units have XT32, I'm sure there won't be much difference in equalization, but I want the most possible dynamic range - so finesse when needed with ample power when needed. I don't listen to any 2 ch music in the main listening area. I'm coming from an Onkyo NR1010 that had plent of punch, but was very bright and lacked some finesse that I had in my last unit.
Then I think that either of the Denons would suit you, in which case I'd buy the least expensive. As the 4520 has been superseded now, it is possible to find a real bargain on that, so I'd choose that. Bear in mind you may lose some features (eg Atmos) but if these are not important to you, the 4520 at the prices it's being offered for now seems irresistible. As you say, it is a former flagship unit and it's available now for less than $1,000 from what I've read on AVS.
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post #10087 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 08:28 AM
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Thanks! I'm not yet up for Atmos - I want to see if it catches on and what other offerings may come along. I plan to use this receiver as my main unit for at least two years. Also not ready to go to 4k, I just bought the PN64F8500 and won't replace it until, or if, OLED is along at a comparable size and price.

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post #10088 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Thanks! I'm not yet up for Atmos - I want to see if it catches on and what other offerings may come along. I plan to use this receiver as my main unit for at least two years. Also not ready to go to 4k, I just bought the PN64F8500 and won't replace it until, or if, OLED is along at a comparable size and price.
In that case, the 4520 seems compelling to me...
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post #10089 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 09:56 AM
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Im looking hard at a 4520 right now, and just selling my amp. Prices are very good.

Hey jdsmoothie, do you guys have any 4520's for sale?

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10090 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4seahorseman View Post
I have a DirecTV Genie, Sony blueray, and xbox as input signals. Display devices will be two LCD and one projector. All of my devices are HDMI compatible and no down conversion is necessary, and I do have hdmi run to all locations already.
I could see there might be handshake issues with the video but the no audio at all is the most puzzling. One correction on my earlier post, the TV#2 is intended to be connected to the secondary monitor 2 hdmi output not a zone 2. I want it to play the same video as the main zone and have audio at the same time. I have a monoprice hdmi 4 in 2 out switch that I could use but thought that could be avoided with this AVR.
I would also like to have a second video source on zone 4 but this also causes all sound to go out if I try and do it at the same time as the main zone is playing.

Ahh - I was confused by your "second tv in zone 2" statement because the AVR has a zone 2


I am also confused by your no sound at all statement. I assume you have been trying the same cable and TV in the 2nd monitor out and in zone 4. For troubleshooting - can you try a different cable (and if you have it a different TV) in both those scenarios? If you continue to experience the same no sound symptom, then I would try the microprocessor reset (described in post 3 of this thread). Before you do that you will likely want to back up your settings through the web interface!


Another place to look is in Setup->General->Information. The various options will show you what the 4520 thinks the capabilities are of the various output devices. I haven't ever used the monitor 2 out, so not sure how it would influence what you can get with the main monitor output. I do expect to possibly have some issues like yours to overcome at some point though as I plan to use that output to drive a TV in the pool area next summer


When HDMI works as expected it is great - plug-n-play and all that. But when it is acting up it can be a bear. The handshake process occurs to negotiate capabilities of ALL (source, AVR, Matrix switch, display, etc.) the various devices in the chain for both audio AND video -- once negotiation is complete you will get the lowest denominator supported by all devices. Even if all the devices are good one bad cable can scr3w the pooch for you.


Keep us posted on what you find.
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post #10091 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 11:55 AM
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post #10092 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 11:57 AM
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little over $1000 new.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10093 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
little over $1000 new.

Yes until Atmos they were bringing $1500-1700 new, then the prices tanked.


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post #10094 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 12:03 PM
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has anyone used height speakers with the Denon 4520CI that are directly above their seats?
Traditional height speakers directly above or slightly forward of seating area?

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post #10095 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 12:51 PM
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post #10096 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
My guess is that it's the speaker.
a) Tilt the speaker so that it's pointed up or down toward ear hight at the main listening position.
b) If it's on a shelf, make sure the front of the speaker is out in front of the shelf in order to auvoid early reflections.
c) Check to make sure its tweeter is actually working.

As a quick fix, you should be able to disable the speaker in the receiver. That should cause the center channel sounds to be redistributed to the Left and Right main speakers, resulting in what's called a "phantom center". It's not so good for people who are seated off-axis, but should be fine for a centered seat.
My center is mounted on cinderblocks behind an acoustic screen. I'll try that phantom center channel idea, but I'm starting to think this is actually coming from the Denon, via the auddessy ( I can never remember how to spell that damn thing) calibrations. According to the FAQ here shrill treble can result from using owdesessyy based on speaker position and maybe some other factors. I'll experiment. with it a bit and see. Also it set my center crossover at 60 instead of 80, for some odd reason.
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post #10097 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Fabulous bargain for the non-Atmos fans.

Yepp. I grabbed one. Gonna sell my amp and AVR.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
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post #10098 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
My center is mounted on cinderblocks behind an acoustic screen. I'll try that phantom center channel idea, but I'm starting to think this is actually coming from the Denon, via the auddessy ( I can never remember how to spell that damn thing) calibrations. According to the FAQ here shrill treble can result from using owdesessyy based on speaker position and maybe some other factors. I'll experiment. with it a bit and see. Also it set my center crossover at 60 instead of 80, for some odd reason.
You might try swapping the center's speaker cables with one of the other front speakers before and/or after calibrating to see if the distorted sound travels with the cable connection or stays with the speaker. That should tell you if it's the speaker or the AVR.

You've doubtless seen comments similar to those below in the Audyssey FAQ, but what the heck...

If the tweeter of a speaker is not pointed toward where the mic is, thus reducing the high frequencies heard by the mic, Audyssey will accentuate the higher frequencies to compensate. How big this effect is will depend on the design of the tweeter assembly. Some "beam" their sound more than others.

If the f3 reported by Audyssey is very close to one of the boundaries that the receiver uses to decide between two crossover frequencies, the resulting crossover value will tend to fluctuate between those two values from one calibration run to another.

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post #10099 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 03:59 PM
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Just got the 4520 about a month ago. Yesterday turned it on and no video. Had to do a factory reset to solve this. Is this common? This is my 4th Denon and never had to do this ever with the previous three. Could this be a sign of troubles to come or normal?

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post #10100 of 10632 Old 10-12-2014, 09:42 PM
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Hey folks-

Yet another should I buy the 4520CI post. I know ultimately its up to me, but if anyone wants to share any experience or opinions I'd be interested to read them.

Current setup:

Denon 2112CI, purchased severalish? years ago
PSB Image B6 Bookshelves, C5 center
SVS 2039CI, older cylinder sub, was the bottom of the line at the time I believe
Oppo BDP-95, AppleTV, Chromecast
Panasonic TC-P55ST60

Usage:

Mostly TV/Movies time-wise in a 3.1 setup, but 2.1 music is VERY important to me.

I really do love the 2112CI, it has given me zero troubles, other than occasional HDMI handshake issues. Audyssey MultiEQ XT has been a real revelation for music. I'm a bit of a recovering audiophile, slowly beginning to realize that any competent DAC and amplification will sound amazing, and that the speakers and room (and thus room correction) will have a far greater impact on sound quality than anything else.

I also love the SVS Sub, and have owned it longer than any other piece in my HT. But I know that in terms of audio improvement, at this point swapping out the sub will make the biggest impact. I'm eyeing the SVS SB-13 Ultra (or an SB-2000 black gloss). I want to go the small box route because the cylinder is an eye sore, and I really don't want to deal with an enormous ported box sub.

My problem is the incredible deals on the 4520CI right now. I'd hate to buy a sub now, and miss out on the opportunity to purchase a flagship at a great price. Why do I want the 4520CI:

-Audyssey XT32, first and foremost.
-Amp section. Even though I don't need that kind of power now, who knows if I'll have 4ohm speakers in the future? I believe the 4520CI will be all the amp I will ever need.
-Pride of ownership. Yes this is silly and irrational, I know, but it would feel good having such a high end receiver in my system. I said I was a "recovering" audiophile, not totally recovered!

My fears:

-Getting a lemon and having to deal with warranty returns, especially when my current receiver is so trouble free. I'd feel like a dufus in front of my wife if I spent a grand+ on this new toy and it functioned worse than the 2112CI.
-XT32 not providing a noticeable improvement in my non-surround system. But by most accounts I read around here people who made the move from MultiEQ XT to XT32 were impressed.

Too long did not read: Should I buy the sub now, knowing it will provide the biggest improvement in audio quality, or take advantage of the great deal on a flagship receiver now, and worry about the sub later?

Again, I know ultimately its my decision, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't take advantage of the wealth of experience on this forum. Thanks in advance for any feedback y'all can provide.
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post #10101 of 10632 Old 10-13-2014, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I wouldn't base it solely on DAC's, that's why I asked the question and listed my setup. I'm seeking owner's advice that use the unit in a similar manner. This unit is flagship vs the others, so I want to know if it's worth the difference for my use.
The 4520's digital mute circuitry is based on powering off the DACs.
The power supply of the DACs use less-than-recommended bypass/filter capacitance for fast turn-off.

Third-party experiments (by enthusiasts) increasing the capacitance to the recommended level produced the following results:
1. Improved sound quality (less grain), but
2. Mute action was slow to engage resulting in audible clicks when adjusting the volume or almost any action on the remote control.

IMHO, the 4520's DAC implementation was an engineering compromise. I would rather have both good SQ and fast mute circuitry - instead of a compromise between mute speed and SQ.

A better muting circuit is already present in the 4520's electronic volume controls - but these are not connected. I know of someone who rewired his 4520 to use these proper mute circuits so that the DACs are always ON with clean power, and still have fast digital mute action.
His 4520 sounds better and all switching noises from the digital circuits are muted. Even digital noises from sources such as from weak stations no longer reach the speakers because of the faster mute action.
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post #10102 of 10632 Old 10-13-2014, 06:35 AM
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http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have this APC surge protector. Both "high current" slots are taken for my subs, I assume the 4520 is not really much different than say a 125w AVR where any surge protector slot is OK? Or do I need to go directly into the wall?

Only reason I ask is I know most amp manufacturers say to plug in direct, and the 4520 has a little more beef to its amp than the lower Denon's.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10103 of 10632 Old 10-14-2014, 01:43 PM
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I have my 4520 plugged into an APC 1500VA UPS. My 4520 typically only draws between 130 watts and 140 watts. Nowhere near the 900 watts or so that the UPS can handle.

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post #10104 of 10632 Old 10-14-2014, 01:54 PM
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Awesome, thanks.

My APC G5 surge protector has two high current slots, but both my subs tie that up. I grabbed a Tripp Lite Isoblock for the outlet and will plug the 4520 into it. I doubt it matters, but I'd prefer the 4520 not to be on anything that is filtered in a way that could restrict current when needed.

I had the Outlaw amp directly connected into the outlet, because at that point I was unaware of the tripp lite isoblock product.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10105 of 10632 Old 10-14-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Fabulous bargain for the non-Atmos fans.
Heck, a great 9 channel amp for $1k USD!
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post #10106 of 10632 Old 10-14-2014, 05:10 PM
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That was my thinking. Beefy amp, excellent version of Audyssey, all for an excellent price.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10107 of 10632 Old 10-15-2014, 06:38 AM
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Where are prople finding the $1k new price tag. I see refurbs for that price?

Argyl Home Theater - Indefinitely Delayed

My Movie Library - and still growing!

Family Room: Sharp LC-80uq17u + Denon 3808ci + Oppo 93, Speakers: C: Polk CSi-A6, F(L+R): Polk Rti-A7, S(R+RS) Polk TC60i, Sub: HSU – VTF3-MK4
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post #10108 of 10632 Old 10-15-2014, 06:52 AM
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Where are prople finding the $1k new price tag. I see refurbs for that price?
Accessories 4 Less I think has them for $1099 or so, new with warranty.
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post #10109 of 10632 Old 10-15-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Accessories 4 Less I think has them for $1099 or so, new with warranty.
That is where I got mine, and it was "new". Helluva deal.

65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #10110 of 10632 Old 10-15-2014, 07:56 AM
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Yes, I see it now. I was thinking x4000 was the way to go but at this price the 4520 is a no brainer.

Argyl Home Theater - Indefinitely Delayed

My Movie Library - and still growing!

Family Room: Sharp LC-80uq17u + Denon 3808ci + Oppo 93, Speakers: C: Polk CSi-A6, F(L+R): Polk Rti-A7, S(R+RS) Polk TC60i, Sub: HSU – VTF3-MK4
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