The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 342 - AVS Forum
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post #10231 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
I see we have same surge protector, Ran mines in one of dedicated 20 amp lines. how you like it?
I like it a lot. I have had then since I think 2006. I have the PF60 and the belkin battery backup with AVR tech. You can see the battery unit on the right side. I have had 3 sets of batteries since buying it in 2006.
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post #10232 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 12:21 PM
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I like it a lot. I have had then since I think 2006. I have the PF60 and the belkin battery backup with AVR tech. You can see the battery unit on the right side. I have had 3 sets of batteries since buying it in 2006.
I just checkout your console build up that's outstanding, as for the Belkin had mines about the same time.
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post #10233 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 03:46 PM
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Regarding my 3D and connectivity issues, I wanted to add that I also ran a cat5 line and verified the AVR had the latest firmware. BTW how do you interface with the AVR from the desktop? It shows up in the devices on my desktop but I thought I read that you could save settings somehow with the desktop interface?
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post #10234 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 4seahorseman View Post
Regarding my 3D and connectivity issues, I wanted to add that I also ran a cat5 line and verified the AVR had the latest firmware. BTW how do you interface with the AVR from the desktop? It shows up in the devices on my desktop but I thought I read that you could save settings somehow with the desktop interface?
Here is the procedure: The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
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post #10235 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 05:12 PM
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^Herb, because you're looking for accuracy/ musicality I highly recommend two smallish subs rather than 1 larger. Two subs also has the advantage of allowing you to place them to lessen room modes and thus produce smoother, more accurate bass.

I'm running 7.2 with an A100/4311 and using two Velodyne DD10s. These subs are powerful and clean, yet nimble (faster cone excursion because of the smaller diam of the cone) -so are very "musical". Though I have very capable speakers the subs really help the bass.

In 2 ch, there's no LFE ch but all the freqs below the xover are sent to the subs.
In the continuing pursuit of a decent music/home theater system, I've embarked on a significant speaker system upgrade. Out with the tried and true NHT system and in with a Martin Logan electrostatic system.

The front L/R's are anchored by a like new pair of Martin Logan Spire's with a ML Stage X as the Center. I'm awaiting two Martin Logan Motif X's to be used as side/surrounds. Last but not least, two Martin Logan BalanceForce 210's are on their way to round out the system.

In anticipation of running both new Subs via the Sub 1 and Sub 2 outputs, I'm wondering about a setting on the ML Spire before I embark on an Audyssey calibration.

There's a 35Hz Level Knob on the back of the ML Spire which adjusts the level between 30 and 50Hz by +/- 10db. The idea is to dial out bass nodes by ear in a room. Since I'm running 2 subs and Audyssey calibration, is it best to leave the setting at 0 db before embarking on this process?

Furthermore, the BalanceForce 210 includes 4 additional adjustments: Level, 25Hz Level, Low-Pass Filter, and Phase.

The manual states the following initial settings:

Low-Pass Filter: No setting as this is bypassed when connected via the LFE input of an AVR.
25Hz Level: Set at 0 dB if using room correction software.
Phase: Initially set at 90 degrees.
Level: No setting specified other than stating "Setting the level too high will cause the bass to seem bloated ..."

Any suggestions on the Level settings for the 210's before I embark on calibration? Any other do's and don'ts in setting this system up are also welcome!

Thanks!
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post #10236 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4seahorseman View Post
Regarding my 3D and connectivity issues, I wanted to add that I also ran a cat5 line and verified the AVR had the latest firmware. BTW how do you interface with the AVR from the desktop? It shows up in the devices on my desktop but I thought I read that you could save settings somehow with the desktop interface?
I first got home and tried my 3D and it did not work. Then I realized I had 3D output off and not auto in my Oppo. After changing I have no problem. Now if I turn on my 60 inch Sony that's connected to avr hdmi 2 out it changes from 3D to standard on the PJ. But I think that's because my Sony is not 3D capable. But as soon as I turn off the Sony it goes back to 3D on the PJ.

After watching Avatar in 3D, well almost, I decided to play around with the denon. Then something weird happened while changing between Internet radio, HD radio, and iPod. It would stay playing HD radio when switched to the other 2 and the front of the denon would be mostly blank. Then on either my pj or Sony screen would be all green. But switching to bluray or cable would work fine. Then back and get green screen.

So I did a microprocessor reset the info / back and all is fine now but lost all my settings. So I redid all my settings and used the web save function.

Has anyone seen the green screen issue.
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post #10237 of 10258 Old 10-27-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by EMSone View Post
Just upgraded from the 4310ci to the 4520ci, and boy what an adventure it was. First thing I noticed was the weight, they nearly weighed the same, after removing the 4310ic and installing the 4520ci and running the audyssey calibration I was VERY disappointed by what I was hearing. Here is where the adventure began, because I know that this unit should sound better than my old one. My setup: 7.2 Mirage Speakers with 2 Prestige s10 subs, what the 4520ci MultEQ XT 32 did to my subwoofer levels was laughable, -9 -10?! I knew something was odd when during the setup it asked to level EACH sub at 75db, solution, I used the y adapter and manually leveled both subs to 75db and switched back and forth from the y adapter to the dual outputs until each sub calibrated out to the same level witch ended up being -5/-5. After all of that I was still highly disappointed with the sound, the 4520ci MultEQ XT 32 calibration's midrange response was VERY thin! It was like I was using 7 satellite speakers and the bass was still too low.

Now I am very upset, and started thinking how can I get this receiver to sound like my old one, then I had an epiphany, use the 4310ci as a baseline for the 4520ci. The most important variable in the calibration was the microphones, the old mic (DM-A409) proved to be more sensitive, by about 2db. After recalibrating with the old mic, voilĂ , pristine sound, oh then I adjusted each sub by the +2db difference then added 1 more db for effect (-2db each sub) and I was in heaven! The accuracy is unparalleled, I have to towers on the floor and my center is 5ft off the ground and the L-C-R sweeping effect is seamless, actually all channels are! Be sure to adjust your crossovers to your liking and use LFE+Main if your fronts don't produce enough bass for you.

The dtsHD-MA track on the Dark Knight Rises is EPIC, the Batman police chase scene, EPIC, when Bruce Wayne climbs out of the pit, EPIC, the last 30 seconds of the movie and the end credits, SUPER EPIC SOUND! This is where you need the midrange response to be good, to produce that big screen sound. Yes, MultEQ XT 32 subEQ is worth it, it doesn't kill the subsonic lows like it did in the past and with 2 subs equalized, aw man!

Now on to the pros and cons, CONS: Remote, no (native) dts 5.1 while in 7.1/2 speaker configuration, no auto sound format decoding, example if a source has a SB Flag (EX) you have to manually switch to Dolby EX, no one button speaker level adjustment, microphone, slight electrical buzz, and weight. Lack of over all options, too many to list. Pros: Clean, strong sound, fast menus, subEQ, inCommand, assignable amps are very nice, I love using my tablet as a remote, fast audyssey calibration, instaPreview.

Overall I am impressed, although initially I was disappointed, I still feel they should not have over simplified the options, like, the option to disable the audyssey L/R bypass, multichannel in sub level adjustment, no adjustments can be made during pure direct mode, surround back auto decoding, no fast one button speaker level adjustment, even the 2ch mode options are greyed out, haven't figured that one out yet.

P.S. I do also miss having both audio source input diagram on one side and output on the other, now you have to choose one or the other.

This past week I also got to try the 4520, in an effort to find out whether it's worth upgrading from my current 4310 or wait another year or two until the upcoming X5200/X7200 models will be on sale. I currently use the receiver in a two channel stereo setup with a pair of SF Liuto.


After setting it up and performing the calibration my first impression was that the bass was thinner but tighter and the treble response was somewhat improved, but not by much. I did not feel like the midrange changed in any noticeable way. Another observation I made was that the bass sounded more uniform across the room, with a less increase in intensity as I was leaning back on the couch which is placed against the wall, opposite from the speakers.


After a few days with the 4520 I switched back to the 4310 and got my impression that the 4310 has a boomier bass confirmed. To give you an idea, the 4520 with the dynamic EQ ref level set to -5 has less bass than the 4310 at -15. Not that the 4310 cannot handle the bass - it doesn't distort at high volume, it just has a richer bass, regardless of the Audyssey correction.


I even performed another calibration of the 4310 using the 4520's mike following your idea, and it only seemed to improve the highs by a hair.


In the end I liked the 4520's sound better overall, especially the bass, but I'm still on the fence whether it's worth for me to put in a grand to upgrade or not. I'm not interested in Atmos, but I would like to be able to stream DSD from the media server. I'll probably go for another round of auditioning before I decide whether to keep it or not.


On another note, build quality of the 4310 seems better to me and the transformer is definitely buzzing less than in the 4520. I also don't like the new remote, too crowded although the backlight is a nice touch.
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post #10238 of 10258 Old 10-28-2014, 01:53 PM
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The 4310 also only has Audyssey MultEQ XT.
While the 4520 has Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

XT32 has much more accurate room correction.

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors

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post #10239 of 10258 Old 10-28-2014, 03:14 PM
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Anyone in Kansas City have one of these 4520CIs that would be willing to participate in this event?

Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City

My 4520CI died a couple weeks back and the service center doesn't think it will be fixed in time.

Call me crazy, but I think the Denon 4520CI does a better job with Audyssey calibration than my Onkyo PR-SC5508 does. They both have Audyssey multiEQ xt32 - but the Denon has the Platinum package. Subjectively - the Denon 4520CI has the first version of Audyssey I've liked --- and that after owning pretty much every version of Audyssey there is over the years.

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post #10240 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 05:37 AM
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Display Unit vs Refurbished

Yesterday evening I found a label on the 4520 I'm trying out now that makes me believe that this one has been a shelve display at BB since September 2012, which I find quite long. When I got it they told me it comes with the full 3 year warranty.

My question is, would I be better off with this one versus a refurbished unit that only comes with 1 year warranty?
Thanks, F.
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post #10241 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 06:29 AM
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Id keep the one with the 3 year. Sitting on a shelf isnt huge.

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post #10242 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM
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^ And the 3 year warranty starts from the date of purchase, not when it was put out on the display shelf at BB.
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post #10243 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
^ And the 3 year warranty starts from the date of purchase, not when it was put out on the display shelf at BB.

Exactly.

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post #10244 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM
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Exactly.
Thanks guys, much appreciated!
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post #10245 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM
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I sent mine back to Adorama....too many negatives here, as I will not be installing for at least another 2 months, so roll of the dice.....not.
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post #10246 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
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Can someone explain why this receiver (and ones like it) don't do an on screen graph for the before and after frequency response? Seems like everything is there to be able to do it. I don't own a laptop PC to use REW. It would be great to have that feature built in to the receiver!

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post #10247 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 05:23 PM
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Well, to start out, the AVR does not conduct "after" measurements. Since "after" measurements would require placing the mic in exactly the same spot for the measurements to be valid, is suspect this would be too much to ask of the average owner. If this type of information is valuable to you, consider learning to use REW. There is a link to a beginner's guide in my sig.
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post #10248 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
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Unfortunately I don't have either a PC or MacBook Pro. To bad I can't use my iPad. Maybe when I finally get around to buying a new computer I can try REW.
I still think there should be a way of showing the "before" graph from the receiver.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50
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post #10249 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM
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Well ended up running Audessy and what it has done is fantastic over my older denon. I'm running right now 5.1 plus wides with audessey DSX. It is crystal clear with great sound stage.

Then we went to dinner and I came back to mess around with more demo material. I ended up with that stupid green screen again.

I turned everything on and when I went to my iPhone 6 to open the denon app the tv screen flickered a bunch of times as the app opened and Internet radio was still playing. I could see the denon volume and menu overlays but that's it. Then if I change to network, iPod, Internet radio I get the green screen with Internet radio playing no matter what. But if I go to cable or bluray everything changes and works normal. So after a few minutes I turned off the denon and could not turn it back on by the front power button. So I pulled the plug for 8/10 minutes and all is fine now. Last time I did the microprocessor reset and lost everything.

Doin think it has something to do with the app when connecting to the denon. The same thing happened on this past Saturday when opening the app so maybe there is a bug.

Other than that the reciever is just plain awesome and way better than the denon 3806 I replaced.
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post #10250 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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post #10251 of 10258 Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If you were to do a network configuration save, then a reset wouldn't be so painful.
I saved it the other night but I need to do it again since running Audessy. But pulling the power plug solved it so far. I'm sure it's the app messing with things. So for now I'm using the original denon remote.
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post #10252 of 10258 Old Today, 12:05 AM
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Unfortunately I don't have either a PC or MacBook Pro. To bad I can't use my iPad. Maybe when I finally get around to buying a new computer I can try REW.
I still think there should be a way of showing the "before" graph from the receiver.
If one is concerned about sound quality, having the right tool(s) to help identify and the ability to measure these improvements is the way forward. I would highly recommend Jerry Austin's step-by-step guide in using REW + USB mic for carrying out in-room measurements.

The first step is to understand where your current sound system stands - which sets the baseline. This can only be identified by carrying out a frequency sweep in the room.

By not having the right set of tool(s), this is equivalent to being in a dark room trying to find a way out without any light. The audio circle of confusion is very large and most people are still in the dark about how to improve their sound system to a satisfying level. Most will use their ears - because it doesn't cost them extra and with the assumption that it is 100% trust worthy. The following BBC documentary should question that belief.

Are you really satisfied with your current setup or thinking more can be squeezed out of the system?

How much have you already spent on the current sound system (speakers + subs + furniture + receiver + ancillaries)? A 2nd hand laptop with a HDMI port on eBay is readily available. A calibrated USB microphone from Cross Spectrum Labs will set you back about $100. REW is free.

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Last edited by steveting99; Today at 12:15 AM. Reason: additional text for clarity + youtube video
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post #10253 of 10258 Old Today, 04:59 AM
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I don't doubt the benefits of measuring room response to improve sound quality, that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that today's Audyssey equipped receivers already contain the necessary software and hardware to do exactly that. I am just wondering why they don't make the option of a "before Audyssey correction" graph on-screen. It should be very simple to have that capability, especially on the higher-end models that use XT32 such as the 4520.

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post #10254 of 10258 Old Today, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
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I don't doubt the benefits of measuring room response to improve sound quality, that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that today's Audyssey equipped receivers already contain the necessary software and hardware to do exactly that. I am just wondering why they don't make the option of a "before Audyssey correction" graph on-screen. It should be very simple to have that capability, especially on the higher-end models that use XT32 such as the 4520.
Maybe down the road it could be added.

The only thing I lookedat was the after graphs in the audessey setup. The only thing that's missing is the subwoofers.
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post #10255 of 10258 Old Today, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I don't doubt the benefits of measuring room response to improve sound quality, that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that today's Audyssey equipped receivers already contain the necessary software and hardware to do exactly that. I am just wondering why they don't make the option of a "before Audyssey correction" graph on-screen. It should be very simple to have that capability, especially on the higher-end models that use XT32 such as the 4520.
Audyssey does make a product with before and after graphs. It is called the Pro kit, and it costs $550, plus $150 for the AVR-specific license. There is a very useful FAQ in the Pro thread here on AVS if you are interested. However, for less money, you can purchase a laptop, a calibrated mic, and use the free REW software. Having done both, my opinion is that the REW Kit will contribute more to your ability to improve the sound of your system than being able to look at some before and after Audyssey graphs with the Pro kit.
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post #10256 of 10258 Old Today, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
Maybe down the road it could be added.

The only thing I lookedat was the after graphs in the audessey setup. The only thing that's missing is the subwoofers.
Let's make sure you understand the "EQ" charts you are referencing, located in the Audyssey setup area in the menu, sub-section "View Results". These charts provide a rough approximation of the correction being applied by the Audyssey filters. They do NOT represent "after" measurements and, IMO, are marginally useful.
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post #10257 of 10258 Old Today, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Let's make sure you understand the "EQ" charts you are referencing, located in the Audyssey setup area in the menu, sub-section "View Results". These charts provide a rough approximation of the correction being applied by the Audyssey filters. They do NOT represent "after" measurements and, IMO, are marginally useful.
Ok, that makes sense. Soon I need to learn rew and get a mic. Right now I have always used my rat shack meter and manually chart, lol.

When we do our dedicated room I will get more indepth with it but now it's fine.
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post #10258 of 10258 Old Today, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I don't doubt the benefits of measuring room response to improve sound quality, that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that today's Audyssey equipped receivers already contain the necessary software and hardware to do exactly that. I am just wondering why they don't make the option of a "before Audyssey correction" graph on-screen. It should be very simple to have that capability, especially on the higher-end models that use XT32 such as the 4520.
But why would I want a before Audyssey graph? I only care what it sounds like after I run the Audyssey setup. Since that is what I will be using 100% of the time. I don't care what it was like before it.

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