The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 353 - AVS Forum
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post #10561 of 10571 Old Today, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikkster View Post
New question.

The 4520 replaced my onkyo 876 that had the same HDMI and chip failure problem that everybody elses had. so in essence it died, but it's got a great amp section.

It's my understanding that I can go from the pre-outs on Denon to the multi-channel inputs on the Onkyo and use the Onkyo to drive additional speakers in an 11.2 setup?

Where I'm unclear is what do I do with the volume control on the Onkyo? Do I set it to zero? Does it have any function at all?

Thanks for help peoples!
Yes, as long as you are using the speaker outputs of the Onkyo, you have to use it's volume as well. The Denon volume would have no control over the speakers connected to the Onkyo if you are using Denon pre-outs.

Also, I occasionally get a thread where the most current page will not load and I can only load the next-to-last page, even when I click on the most current page number at the top. It links me to the next to most current page. Anybody else getting this. Therefore, though I am responding to the post above, I have no idea how many other people already responded to it. Let's see what happens when I post.
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post #10562 of 10571 Old Today, 09:35 AM
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Also, I occasionally get a thread where the most current page will not load and I can only load the next-to-last page, even when I click on the most current page number at the top. It links me to the next to most current page. Anybody else getting this. Therefore, though I am responding to the post above, I have no idea how many other people already responded to it. Let's see what happens when I post.
Yes, I see this fairly frequently. I suspect we're actually seeing all the posts, but the forum software mistakenly thinks there's another page. You (and I) might want to check the operations forum to see if anyone has reported this.
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post #10563 of 10571 Old Today, 10:53 AM
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Yes, as long as you are using the speaker outputs of the Onkyo, you have to use it's volume as well. The Denon volume would have no control over the speakers connected to the Onkyo if you are using Denon pre-outs.
Are you sure about that? That would mean that every time you changed the volume on the Denon you would have to seperately change the volume on the Onkyo, in a multi channel system there would be no way to keep the speaker levels calibrated.

Also, you use pre-outs when using a powered sub. If changing the volume level on my Denon had no effect when using pre-outs, then everybody's sub would remain at the same level regarding of the volume level of the other speakers. And that doesn't happen.

I'm sure there's something I'm missing here, but the way you've explained it makes no sense to me.
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post #10564 of 10571 Old Today, 11:09 AM
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Yes, I see this fairly frequently. I suspect we're actually seeing all the posts, but the forum software mistakenly thinks there's another page. You (and I) might want to check the operations forum to see if anyone has reported this.
Yep happening to me too. I can see there is another page but cannot get there until just now.
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post #10565 of 10571 Old Today, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikkster View Post
Are you sure about that? That would mean that every time you changed the volume on the Denon you would have to seperately change the volume on the Onkyo, in a multi channel system there would be no way to keep the speaker levels calibrated.

Also, you use pre-outs when using a powered sub. If changing the volume level on my Denon had no effect when using pre-outs, then everybody's sub would remain at the same level regarding of the volume level of the other speakers. And that doesn't happen.

I'm sure there's something I'm missing here, but the way you've explained it makes no sense to me.
You're correct that the Denon preamp outputs are going to be affected by the Denon's volume control, just as the subwoofer output is. Assuming you only want to use the Onkyo's amps, you should be able to set the volume level to one setting on the Onkyo, run a calibration on the Denon, and then adjust the volume control only on the Denon from that point on. The problem with using the Onkyo for its amps is that the signal for the channels going through the Onkyo is now going through 2 preamp stages / volume controls (1 in the Denon, 1 in the Onkyo), which isn't ideal from a sound quality perspective. The end result should be better if you used an actual power amp instead for the extra channels, but that's your call. If it sounds good to you, then that's all that really matters.
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post #10566 of 10571 Old Today, 11:25 AM
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Yep happening to me too. I can see there is another page but cannot get there until just now.
I see this all the time, and I suspect others are seeing it as well.

Unless we report these issues here then it won't get fixed. Make sure you report the platform and operating system you are using to access AVS.
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post #10567 of 10571 Old Today, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
You're correct that the Denon preamp outputs are going to be affected by the Denon's volume control, just as the subwoofer output is. Assuming you only want to use the Onkyo's amps, you should be able to set the volume level to one setting on the Onkyo, run a calibration on the Denon, and then adjust the volume control only on the Denon from that point on. The problem with using the Onkyo for its amps is that the signal for the channels going through the Onkyo is now going through 2 preamp stages / volume controls (1 in the Denon, 1 in the Onkyo), which isn't ideal from a sound quality perspective. The end result should be better if you used an actual power amp instead for the extra channels, but that's your call. If it sounds good to you, then that's all that really matters.
Thanks that clears it up.

So in essence it sounds like the volume control on the Onkyo winds up functioning much the same as the gain control would on a powered sub.

Simple enough to set up, so i'll try and see what I hear. Never hurts to try.

Any thought on where the volume should be set on the Onkyo, or doesnt it matter?

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post #10568 of 10571 Old Today, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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While GSR is technically correct I don't think the concern about the two pre-amps stages is really worth worrying about. For nearly any receiver the multich analog inputs bypass the pre-amp stage and are effectively a straight analog passthrough to the amps. Most of the time only the volume control (both the global volume and the individual channel volumes) is in effect and everything else is bypassed. So in practice it's a non concern because you are getting a "pure" analog path to the amp section. The only thing you have to do is reset the receiver so all channel levels/distances are zeroed out and then set the master volume to 0dB and never touch it again, from that point on the Denon is the preamp and will control the global volume and individual channel volumes.

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post #10569 of 10571 Old Today, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikkster View Post
So in essence it sounds like the volume control on the Onkyo winds up functioning much the same as the gain control would on a powered sub.
Exactly.

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Any thought on where the volume should be set on the Onkyo, or doesnt it matter?
That will require some experimentation and I would suggest starting on the low side, but the goal should probably be to set it to a level where the calibrated levels for the speakers you're using it for are about the same as the speakers the Denon is powering.
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post #10570 of 10571 Old Today, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
You're correct that the Denon preamp outputs are going to be affected by the Denon's volume control, just as the subwoofer output is. Assuming you only want to use the Onkyo's amps, you should be able to set the volume level to one setting on the Onkyo, run a calibration on the Denon, and then adjust the volume control only on the Denon from that point on. The problem with using the Onkyo for its amps is that the signal for the channels going through the Onkyo is now going through 2 preamp stages / volume controls (1 in the Denon, 1 in the Onkyo), which isn't ideal from a sound quality perspective. The end result should be better if you used an actual power amp instead for the extra channels, but that's your call. If it sounds good to you, then that's all that really matters.
Whoops, thanks all I didn't quite think it through before posting!
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post #10571 of 10571 Old Today, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
While GSR is technically correct I don't think the concern about the two pre-amps stages is really worth worrying about. For nearly any receiver the multich analog inputs bypass the pre-amp stage and are effectively a straight analog passthrough to the amps. Most of the time only the volume control (both the global volume and the individual channel volumes) is in effect and everything else is bypassed. So in practice it's a non concern because you are getting a "pure" analog path to the amp section. The only thing you have to do is reset the receiver so all channel levels/distances are zeroed out and then set the master volume to 0dB and never touch it again, from that point on the Denon is the preamp and will control the global volume and individual channel volumes.
thanks!
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