The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 360 - AVS Forum
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post #10771 of 10791 Old 12-16-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lanced View Post
Hi guys,
I bought the 4520CI few months ago and really enjoyed the unit thus far for music and movies ....... until I tried to setup my Karaoke system last weekend.
The problem I ran into with the 4520CI is the audio processing delay. I noticed that there is a fraction of a second delay from when you speak into the microphone to when the sound come out of the speaker. This noticeable delay makes the receiver useless for Karaoke. It's very difficult to sing as your voice came out a fraction of a second after you sang.

The audio delay setting is 0. I tried to turned off Audyssey but that doesn't make any difference. This is in stereo mode.

When I bypass the 4520CI (by going directly from mixer to power-amp), I have no audio delay problem. This means the mixer is not the culprit.

Is there any other knobs in this receiver that I can turn to address this? I really want to use the receiver for my karaoke as that would integrate my system nicely.

BTW, this is with analog stereo input, not HDMI.
Thanks to the poster who asked about direct-mode :-). I tried with the "pure" mode and there is no delay. I think this made sense for Karaoke.
I called tech support yesterday and I felt the guy I talked to really have no clue about receiver. I have to went on a lengthy explanation to him that the 0 on "audio delay" does not mean there is no audio processing delay.
anyhow, the pure mode did it.
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post #10772 of 10791 Old 12-16-2014, 07:46 PM
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Any of ya'll have good head phone recommendations? Don't need anything crazy fancy, just would like to be able to watch some stuff on the big screen at night when the wife is asleep. Just need long cord of course (10ft)
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Thanks.

I've narrowed down a few and will order a male/female ext cable. Be nice getting to stay in the living room and watch tv instead of the small bedroom tv LOL.
I had a pair of the Denon AHD-600's and felt they were great. Big bass but great SQ still. I too had a long cord for late at night.

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post #10773 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 07:18 AM
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Hi,

Just wanted to get an opinion here.
Which would be better:

Denon AVR-4520ci

or

Denon AVR-x4100

Trying to decide. Down to these two and figure I can't go wrong with either.
I know the 4520ci has slightly more power, but the x4100 has Atmos, wifi, etc.

Any opinions?

Thanks!
-Nap
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post #10774 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally, unless you had zero interest in Atmos, I would get the newer model. Normally I'm an advocate of getting the higher end but slightly older model as better bang for the buck, but Atmos is really a game changer if you are a movie lover.

If you are primarily using the system for music that's a bit different, since Atmos isn't that relevant and the extra power, build quality and refinement of the 4520 will probably win out.

But otherwise I'd go with the newer model. Any differences in amp power, if important, can be mitigated with an external amp. Plus you get superior zone features and other minor improvements (like the ability to store separate 2ch settings, input specific channel level adjustments, etc).

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post #10775 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by WHATTHEDILEO View Post
I am not having fun with Zone2/3/4... I am trying to 'unhide' a currently hidden input (CD) via web control but it doesn't wanna let me!
Try saying "OLLY OLLY OXEN FREE."

Then unplug the AVR power cord for 10 minutes.

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post #10776 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Personally, unless you had zero interest in Atmos, I would get the newer model. Normally I'm an advocate of getting the higher end but slightly older model as better bang for the buck, but Atmos is really a game changer if you are a movie lover.

If you are primarily using the system for music that's a bit different, since Atmos isn't that relevant and the extra power, build quality and refinement of the 4520 will probably win out.

But otherwise I'd go with the newer model. Any differences in amp power, if important, can be mitigated with an external amp. Plus you get superior zone features and other minor improvements (like the ability to store separate 2ch settings, input specific channel level adjustments, etc).
Well, I do have a very strong interest in movies (can't wait to watch Guardians of the Galaxy in 3d blu-ray), video games but also would love listening to music.

I just invested into a EMP Tek Impression Speaker Series during BF (2 R55Ti Tower Speakers, 2 R5Bi Bookshelf Speakers, 1 R56Ci Center Channel Speaker, 2 R55Wi Surround On-wall Speakers) and was looking for the right receiver to compliment these. I also have a SVS PC12-NSD sub. Room is about 26' wide, 13' from couch to screen, 8' high. Using a projection screen at the moment with a Benq W1070.

But I thought Atmos was only for in ceiling speakers?

I can get the x-4100 today for $1150 locally or the AVR-4520CI for $1100 through Accessories4less. To be honest I really didn't want to spend that much, but I was chatting with Mark from A4less this morning and he said to power these speakers and make them shine, the AVR-4520CI was the way to go. I also liked the fact that the AVR-4520CI was built in Japan, not China like the x-4100. I was originally shooting for a Yamaha or the most, the x4000.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by napski; 12-17-2014 at 08:32 AM.
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post #10777 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 08:36 AM
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Forgot to mention that during our chat, he mentioned the following regarding the EMP Tek speakers:

That's, it's a 5 driver speaker and that's a lot of drivers to push. Plus it's 6 ohms. Plus 87db sensitivity.
Plus sensitivity is below 90db (standard) and that for every 3db down, you need to double the power to make it play at the same volume.

That's when Mark recommended the AVR-4520CI over the x4100 and over the x4000.
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post #10778 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
Hi,

Just wanted to get an opinion here.
Which would be better:

Denon AVR-4520ci

or

Denon AVR-x4100

Trying to decide. Down to these two and figure I can't go wrong with either.
I know the 4520ci has slightly more power, but the x4100 has Atmos, wifi, etc.

Any opinions?

Thanks!
-Nap
Model wise, the AVR-4520ci is this time being split into two new receivers, the x5200w and the x7200w.
For instance, the 4100 is the bare boned atmos version with 9.2 processing but only has 7 channels of amplification so it could do 5.2.2 or 7.2.
With an external amplifier it should be able to do atmos in a 7.2.2 setup.

Aside from more channels of processing I cant really think of anything, and the lack of Atmos in the 4520 makes those channels of processing pretty much superfluous or kinda obsolete.

I personally can't really see anything for my use the x4100w wouldn't do, and it does seem to have fairly decent power, pre outs, dual HDMI, and if you needed extra power would those few watts the 4520 has, really make a difference?
In those higher ranges you start doubling up quite quickly so if you need more power you might as well consider adding dedicated power amplifiers, even a "cheap" one like my emotiva gives me extra headroom, compared to my 4520, not that I would consider the emo necessary for my setup, I have it, wouldn't get enough for it to bother with selling, so might as well use it


So I would lean towards the newer model this time around, but for me the 4520 works well, and have so far tried two Atmos movies and the 7.1 compatability track sounds great so I'm not in any hurry to upgrade, but I was already invested before Atmos was announced, If wasn't I would probably have waited just a little bit.
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post #10779 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
Forgot to mention that during our chat, he mentioned the following regarding the EMP Tek speakers:

That's, it's a 5 driver speaker and that's a lot of drivers to push. Plus it's 6 ohms. Plus 87db sensitivity.
Plus sensitivity is below 90db (standard) and that for every 3db down, you need to double the power to make it play at the same volume.

That's when Mark recommended the AVR-4520CI over the x4100 and over the x4000.

Unless you absolutely plan to do an ATMOS setup, I would go with the 4520. It was the flagship AVR for Denon less than a year ago, with a $2500 msrp. Now you can get one for $1100.

For me, I have no interest in ATMOS, mostly because I have no way to mount speakers in my ceiling. Going with the 4520 was a no-brainer for me. I absolutely love it and am beyond satisfied with its performance. It is up to you, but my advice is to jump on that 4520 deal ASAP.

Monitor: Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / AVR: Denon AVR-4520ci
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post #10780 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
...and the lack of Atmos in the 4520 makes those channels of processing pretty much superfluous or kinda obsolete.
Obsolete? Maybe. But superfluous? Definitely not. I constantly use all nine processing/amplifier channels in my 4520 for Dolby Pro-Logic IIz and DTS Neo:X. Short of Atmos or Auro 3D, those two upmixers are as good as it gets for height processing.
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post #10781 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 10:18 PM
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Unless you absolutely plan to do an ATMOS setup, I would go with the 4520. It was the flagship AVR for Denon less than a year ago, with a $2500 msrp. Now you can get one for $1100.

For me, I have no interest in ATMOS, mostly because I have no way to mount speakers in my ceiling. Going with the 4520 was a no-brainer for me. I absolutely love it and am beyond satisfied with its performance. It is up to you, but my advice is to jump on that 4520 deal ASAP.
I might plan to, but I can also get the x4100 at a local dealer for about $1200. I don't plan to install speakers in my ceiling either at this point so not sure about ATMOS.

So I can get the 4520 for $1100 or the x4100 for $1200...which one do you think would be best? I do plan to watch action movies, video games and listen to music.
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post #10782 of 10791 Old 12-17-2014, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
I might plan to, but I can also get the x4100 at a local dealer for about $1200. I don't plan to install speakers in my ceiling either at this point so not sure about ATMOS.

So I can get the 4520 for $1100 or the x4100 for $1200...which one do you think would be best? I do plan to watch action movies, video games and listen to music.
As far as sound quality goes, the new AVR's have discontinued using Dolby Pro Logic, and instead use DSU. If you are a music lover, you might want to listen to DSU before you make a decision. There are reports that DSU doesn't do as good a job on music, but does a very good job on movies. Of course, this is preference, and I mention it because it may be an important factor in your decision.

I own the 4520, love it, and would not consider the newer Denon's because of the lack of Pro Logic.
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post #10783 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 05:49 AM
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As far as sound quality goes, the new AVR's have discontinued using Dolby Pro Logic, and instead use DSU. If you are a music lover, you might want to listen to DSU before you make a decision. There are reports that DSU doesn't do as good a job on music, but does a very good job on movies. Of course, this is preference, and I mention it because it may be an important factor in your decision.

I own the 4520, love it, and would not consider the newer Denon's because of the lack of Pro Logic.
Jerry, PLII(x/z) was my go-to mode for music until I got the X5200 and was able to use DTS Neo:X 11.1, which I find at least as good and, obviously, more immersive. I happen to number among those who only use DSU for video sources for this very reason.

I'm curious to hear why you, as a 4520 owner, prefer PLII to Neo:X.
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post #10784 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM
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Well after going many years without a new receiver, I purchased and just received a new 4520 and it is awesome. Though I am thoroughly overwhelmed at this point and have started to read the 277 page manual.... it might take some time to get up to speed on how to properly use Audyssey.


If anyone knows of a good reference guide I'm all ears
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post #10785 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 07:57 AM
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Well after going many years without a new receiver, I purchased and just received a new 4520 and it is awesome. Though I am thoroughly overwhelmed at this point and have started to read the 277 page manual.... it might take some time to get up to speed on how to properly use Audyssey.


If anyone knows of a good reference guide I'm all ears
Start here: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

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post #10786 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
I might plan to, but I can also get the x4100 at a local dealer for about $1200. I don't plan to install speakers in my ceiling either at this point so not sure about ATMOS.

So I can get the 4520 for $1100 or the x4100 for $1200...which one do you think would be best? I do plan to watch action movies, video games and listen to music.
My understanding of the new model number scheme is that the AVR-X4100W (MSRP $1499) is a step down from the AVR-4520CI (the original MSRP was $2499), ignoring the inclusion of Atmos. The AVR-X5200W (MSRP $1999) would be the closest replacement for the AVR-4520CI at this time. So you would only be getting a discount of a few hundred bucks on the AVR-X4100W (hint: you probably ought to be able to get a better discount on the 4100 if you shop around more; try calling the AVS store and see what they can do), but a much larger discount on the AVR-4520CI. If Atmos is important to you, then forget about the AVR-4520CI and get one of the new models. If Atmos isn't important to you, the AVR-4520CI is a great receiver at a great price right now.
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post #10787 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM
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Jerry, PLII(x/z) was my go-to mode for music until I got the X5200 and was able to use DTS Neo:X 11.1, which I find at least as good and, obviously, more immersive. I happen to number among those who only use DSU for video sources for this very reason.

I'm curious to hear why you, as a 4520 owner, prefer PLII to Neo:X.
To me, "more immersive" is not necessarily more pleasing. All of the modes that use either the heights and/or wides for music (PLIIz, Neo:X, DSX) are less pleasing to me than PLII Music. It is really just a personal preference.
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post #10788 of 10791 Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
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Thank you Sir, appreciate it!
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post #10789 of 10791 Unread Today, 12:04 PM
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After VSX1120 HDMI outs stopped working due to lightening surge,,,i havent watched TV for the last 6 weeks.

Thinking to buy a new receiver - Own Onkyo 3007 for my media room - Great receiver but running hot like mo...

Considering $999 Budget - I am trying to lean towards this receiver.

* I do not need ATMOS - no way for me to install ceiling speakers in my family room with 20' ceiling.
* I do require Bluetooth - but looks like there is a way around with this receiver
* Wireless - no issue, Do have wired connection near by
* Running Emptek 7 Speakers - Full version, Epik Subwoofers
* Tech specs are great - no complaints...

I am not sure i will buy the 4K TV any time soon for atleast 3-5 years.

is this receiver could fit my needs?

My First DIY Screen 120" Laminate Screen

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post #10790 of 10791 Unread Today, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sathyakamaraj View Post
After VSX1120 HDMI outs stopped working due to lightening surge,,,i havent watched TV for the last 6 weeks.

Thinking to buy a new receiver - Own Onkyo 3007 for my media room - Great receiver but running hot like mo...

Considering $999 Budget - I am trying to lean towards this receiver.

* I do not need ATMOS - no way for me to install ceiling speakers in my family room with 20' ceiling.
* I do require Bluetooth - but looks like there is a way around with this receiver
* Wireless - no issue, Do have wired connection near by
* Running Emptek 7 Speakers - Full version, Epik Subwoofers
* Tech specs are great - no complaints...

I am not sure i will buy the 4K TV any time soon for atleast 3-5 years.

is this receiver could fit my needs?
I just bought the 7 Emptek speakers as well! Which ones do you have and how have they been so far?
I've been considering this receiver as well. Making my decision by tomorrow.
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