The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 367 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

RFGuy_KCCO's Avatar RFGuy_KCCO
04:38 PM Liked: 15
post #10981 of 11117
01-14-2015 | Posts: 56
Joined: Dec 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyyyrawb View Post
Thanks to both batpig and NorthSky. This advice reinforces my gut to go with the 4520. I feel pretty good focusing on upgrading the receiver and speakers now, and waiting to upgrade the TV and other components when the 4K standards are more solid. The price of the 4520 now is awesome, and it seems like it would last me for at least a year or two when I'll likely be ready to upgrade and/or move it to another room.
I predict you will be very happy with your choice.
sourbeef's Avatar sourbeef
07:25 PM Liked: 23
post #10982 of 11117
01-14-2015 | Posts: 1,275
Joined: Jan 2008
JMHO, again, no one needs to add a fan with this machine. It runs really cool, relatively speaking, even when run hard.
TV addict#2's Avatar TV addict#2
07:26 AM Liked: 12
post #10983 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 115
Joined: Aug 2005
this is gonna be my next avr to replace my 1992 model Kenwood,are the latest units pretty much trouble free now
Alan P's Avatar Alan P
08:25 AM Liked: 616
post #10984 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 3,606
Joined: Jan 2003
OK, so last night watched Star Trek (1st JJ Abrams version) and was totally underwhelmed by the audio....I figured something had to be going on so I checked some settings.

Why in the world does my new 4520 default to "Dynamic Compression AUTO" and "Loudness Management ON" with Dolby True-HD (and DD/DD+) signals???

After I turned that crap off, it sounded great!


Seriously, these options should not be enabled by default.

Loudness Management
On : Outputs using the settings made in “Dynamic Compression” and “Dialogue normalization” are enabled.
Off : “Dynamic Compression” settings and “Dialogue normalization” are disabled, and the signals on the disk are output as is.

Dynamic Compression - Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto : Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High : These set the compression level.
Off : Dynamic range compression always off.

batpig's Avatar batpig
10:00 AM Liked: 1707
post #10985 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 25,264
Joined: Feb 2007
Yeah you really have to be carful with all the possible settings. I always like to take a run through all the submenus in the Audio section just to make sure everything is how I want it. And remember many of those settings are input and/or signal specific. To make things more complicated there are often audio settings on the source side which can impact what you are hearing.

This is also one reason why it's difficult to make fair comparisons between different receivers. Each one will handle this stuff a bit different so it's tough to get everything apples to apples.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
11:59 AM Liked: 875
post #10986 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 22,365
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, so last night watched Star Trek (1st JJ Abrams version) and was totally underwhelmed by the audio....I figured something had to be going on so I checked some settings.

Why in the world does my new 4520 default to "Dynamic Compression AUTO" and "Loudness Management ON" with Dolby True-HD (and DD/DD+) signals???

After I turned that crap off, it sounded great!


Seriously, these options should not be enabled by default.

Loudness Management
On : Outputs using the settings made in “Dynamic Compression” and “Dialogue normalization” are enabled.
Off : “Dynamic Compression” settings and “Dialogue normalization” are disabled, and the signals on the disk are output as is.

Dynamic Compression - Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto : Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High : These set the compression level.
Off : Dynamic range compression always off.
They seem to typically default to enabled. Those ere some of the first things I make sure are off when I setup a new receiver.
Craig Peer's Avatar Craig Peer
02:38 PM Liked: 400
post #10987 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 5,829
Joined: Aug 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, so last night watched Star Trek (1st JJ Abrams version) and was totally underwhelmed by the audio....I figured something had to be going on so I checked some settings.

Why in the world does my new 4520 default to "Dynamic Compression AUTO" and "Loudness Management ON" with Dolby True-HD (and DD/DD+) signals???

After I turned that crap off, it sounded great!


Seriously, these options should not be enabled by default.

Loudness Management
On : Outputs using the settings made in “Dynamic Compression” and “Dialogue normalization” are enabled.
Off : “Dynamic Compression” settings and “Dialogue normalization” are disabled, and the signals on the disk are output as is.

Dynamic Compression - Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto : Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High : These set the compression level.
Off : Dynamic range compression always off.

I agree that it is irritating they default to on with a new unit ( at least mine was that way ). Batpig's advice is good. In fact, I need to check sources other than Blu Ray tonight just to make sure they are set the way I want them !!
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
03:11 PM Liked: 1158
post #10988 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 7,874
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, so last night watched Star Trek (1st JJ Abrams version) and was totally underwhelmed by the audio....I figured something had to be going on so I checked some settings.

Why in the world does my new 4520 default to "Dynamic Compression AUTO" and "Loudness Management ON" with Dolby True-HD (and DD/DD+) signals???

After I turned that crap off, it sounded great!


Seriously, these options should not be enabled by default.

Loudness Management
On : Outputs using the settings made in “Dynamic Compression” and “Dialogue normalization” are enabled.
Off : “Dynamic Compression” settings and “Dialogue normalization” are disabled, and the signals on the disk are output as is.

Dynamic Compression - Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto : Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High : These set the compression level.
Off : Dynamic range compression always off.
I remember watching Super8 the first time and commenting in Ralph Potts' review thread and saying I thought the audio was less than overwhelming and he came up with this response:

"This is a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack which automatically sets the Onkyo's Night Listening Mode to "Auto". You have to manually set it to off once the track begins playing. Do that and watch some of these scenes over and see what you think"

Sure enough, it was so and I have found myself checking on others and finding it on again. Denon doesn't do that?
Alan P's Avatar Alan P
03:43 PM Liked: 616
post #10989 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 3,606
Joined: Jan 2003
^^^

That's just ridiculous...why do AVR manufacturers assume those soundtracks need compression?? I just don't get it.

Anyways....no, after I turn those 2 options off they seem to stay off. I tested with multiple sources and multiple movies.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
03:48 PM Liked: 1158
post #10990 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 7,874
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

That's just ridiculous...why do AVR manufacturers assume those soundtracks need compression?? I just don't get it.

Anyways....no, after I turn those 2 options off they seem to stay off. I tested with multiple sources and multiple movies.
Why does Microsoft think we need the appearance of a clock and the idiotic charm thing in 8.1 whenever you mouse over to the right side of the screen? I wonder if it was even intentional and I don't think it happens on every TrueHD soundtrack but I've never really checked.....but guess if I get a working 4520 I won't have to worry about it any more....
Alan P's Avatar Alan P
03:58 PM Liked: 616
post #10991 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 3,606
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Why does Microsoft think we need the appearance of a clock and the idiotic charm thing in 8.1 whenever you mouse over to the right side of the screen? I wonder if it was even intentional and I don't think it happens on every TrueHD soundtrack but I've never really checked.....but guess if I get a working 4520 I won't have to worry about it any more....
You can turn that off.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
04:02 PM Liked: 1158
post #10992 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 7,874
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You can turn that off.
Completely off? I haven't found how to do that, got it to where it doesn't appear as frequently....
Alan P's Avatar Alan P
04:07 PM Liked: 616
post #10993 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 3,606
Joined: Jan 2003
Don't really remember how I did it, but I just found this link and I think this is how I did it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2...e-windows.html
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
04:30 PM Liked: 1158
post #10994 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 7,874
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Don't really remember how I did it, but I just found this link and I think this is how I did it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2...e-windows.html
Yes, turned those off a long time ago but I can still get the charms to appear with the touchpad cursor in motions on the right side, when I've come up from the bottom (where I often put the cursor so its out of the way). Not nearly as annoying as the out-of-the-box settings. The thinking by HP/Microsoft on implementation of a touchscreen on a laptop was just pitifully poor IMO. I'm just too old to see any benefit to making such an "automatic" feature I suppose, maybe I should have more ADHD or something...would much prefer a more rigorous routine on how to setup/personalize the actions of the computer in the first place rather than have some twit decide what they like as an unexplained starting point.
batpig's Avatar batpig
04:48 PM Liked: 1707
post #10995 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 25,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
That's just ridiculous...why do AVR manufacturers assume those soundtracks need compression?? I just don't get it.
I think you have to remember that most users are consuming their media with the audio provided by TV speakers or, at best, a soundbar or a dinky HTIB package. For these people, dynamic range compression is really a necessity. It's really a "lowest common denominator" thing.... folks who have setups that are capable of comfortable, intelligible playback with full dynamic range are pretty rare.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
05:07 PM Liked: 1158
post #10996 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 7,874
Joined: Dec 2007
FWIW the carrier picked up the non functioning 4520 yesterday and today A4L prepared the shipping tag on the exchange unit, even though ETA of the defunct unit at A4L is 1/22. So far so good...
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
05:19 PM Liked: 875
post #10997 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 22,365
Joined: Aug 2001
I have been very pleased with the responsiveness from A4L. I got my refurb 4520 and extended warranty from them. Then I lost my receipt(I purchased the 4520 from A4L through ebay) and they responded quickly with a copy of the receipt after I emailed them.
Alan P's Avatar Alan P
08:36 PM Liked: 616
post #10998 of 11117
01-16-2015 | Posts: 3,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I think you have to remember that most users are consuming their media with the audio provided by TV speakers or, at best, a soundbar or a dinky HTIB package. For these people, dynamic range compression is really a necessity. It's really a "lowest common denominator" thing.... folks who have setups that are capable of comfortable, intelligible playback with full dynamic range are pretty rare.
I agree...but this is on a 4520ci!
PeterK's Avatar PeterK
08:15 AM Liked: 54
post #10999 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 561
Joined: Jun 2002
I have a phono issue. Not sure what the possible cause is as have replaced my stylus at same time as receiver.

Running an ancient Pioneer PL570 turntable with a Shure V15 Type IV with a brand new Jico SAS replacement stylus - moving magnet cartridge. Neither the turntable or cartridge has seen any use for about 15 years. So plugged it into the phono input of my 4520 and found virtually no bass. Had to turn the bass output up all the way to +12 to get any.

I don't have another cartridge to try nor do I have an external phono preamp.
Any thoughts to which item would be the cause of this problem? I purchased the cartridge new in the 70s and it doesn't have a lot of usage.

Only thing I can try is tearing my system apart and using my Pioneer VSX-49TX. Only issue is that I never used the phono input on it so not sure it will accomplish anything.
Thanks for any tips. Pete
PeterK's Avatar PeterK
08:15 AM Liked: 54
post #11000 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 561
Joined: Jun 2002
Duplicate post. Sorry
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
03:22 PM Liked: 1158
post #11001 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 7,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
I have a phono issue. Not sure what the possible cause is as have replaced my stylus at same time as receiver.

Running an ancient Pioneer PL570 turntable with a Shure V15 Type IV with a brand new Jico SAS replacement stylus - moving magnet cartridge. Neither the turntable or cartridge has seen any use for about 15 years. So plugged it into the phono input of my 4520 and found virtually no bass. Had to turn the bass output up all the way to +12 to get any.

I don't have another cartridge to try nor do I have an external phono preamp.
Any thoughts to which item would be the cause of this problem? I purchased the cartridge new in the 70s and it doesn't have a lot of usage.

Only thing I can try is tearing my system apart and using my Pioneer VSX-49TX. Only issue is that I never used the phono input on it so not sure it will accomplish anything.
Thanks for any tips. Pete
Perhaps just selective memory?

At least I've put a cartridge away for a long time with no ill effects. Seems to point at the non-Shure replacement stylus. It played fine when you put it away last and only difference is the stylus?
PeterK's Avatar PeterK
04:28 PM Liked: 54
post #11002 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 561
Joined: Jun 2002
Yea I was questioning memory Myself!
There is NO bass unless I turn up the subwoofer output. Even at maximum of +12 it is still very low. Makes me question the phono input as to me sounds like it is not doing the RIAA correction possibly. Hard to believe the new stylus could be the culprit. Guess I will just have to dig out my other receiver and temporarily try that. If that works I will probably look for a decent phono preamp.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
04:51 PM Liked: 1158
post #11003 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 7,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Yea I was questioning memory Myself!
There is NO bass unless I turn up the subwoofer output. Even at maximum of +12 it is still very low. Makes me question the phono input as to me sounds like it is not doing the RIAA correction possibly. Hard to believe the new stylus could be the culprit. Guess I will just have to dig out my other receiver and temporarily try that. If that works I will probably look for a decent phono preamp.
I have a 4520 on the way and plan to use the phono input. I do have a stand alone phono preamp also. Will post if any difficulties. Googled Jico so seems they do have some chops on the replacement stylus. You could plug into another input that has no RIAA curve and see if they sound different?
Walternate's Avatar Walternate
10:25 PM Liked: 14
post #11004 of 11117
01-18-2015 | Posts: 119
Joined: Jun 2010
I have a Denon DP-47F TT with a Denon 110 MC cartridge hooked up to my 4520's phono inputs. Sounds great. Lots of bass with very nice detail. And that's with a MC cartridge. It's a high output MC for sure but much lower than a MM. At one time I had my Technics 1600 MKII turntable on the 4520 with the same cartridge and it lacked bass as well. Very detailed but lacking bass. So I think, in my case, it may be TT dependent.

I now have the Technics TT hooked up to a vintage Pioneer SX-1080 receiver and it sounds pretty good. However I have a Shure M97 MM cartridge on it now. I do have an extra Denon 110 cartridge so maybe I'll try it with that cartridge and see how it sounds to compare.

I would think that any decent MM cartridge, which your V15 is more than decent, much better than my M97, should sound very good on the 4520 as well. I suppose it could be something wonky on your 4520's phono inputs but I would be more inclined to think it's something in your PL570. I mean, if it's been sitting around for 15 years you might be having corrosion issues with your TT's RCA connectors/ cables or the tonearm wires? Or even the contacts on the headshell?
sonofsoren's Avatar sonofsoren
06:49 PM Liked: 10
post #11005 of 11117
01-19-2015 | Posts: 95
Joined: Dec 2005
I have been having an issue with my 4520 and it has been just since I upgraded my tv to a Samsung UN75HU8550. Every couple of weeks when I turn on my system, I get no picture and sound out of the 4520. I have to do a soft reset by unplugging the 4520 for 2 minutes or so and it always corrects the problem. Is this because the new Samsung is an UHD TV with hdmi 2.0 jacks? Does it have to do something with the EDID between the 4520 and the Samsung? I plan to upgrade to the Denon X7200 sometime this spring/summer. Will that new piece solve my problem? Should I just go ahead and upgrade now?
travis-g's Avatar travis-g
01:20 PM Liked: 14
post #11006 of 11117
01-21-2015 | Posts: 162
Joined: Feb 2007
I have the same problem but it's intermittent. Please help.
Dale T. J. Sandberg
05:24 PM Liked: 0
post #11007 of 11117
01-21-2015 | Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by ril850 View Post
Well I figured it out, the FLAC files do play, I just had to scroll down. For some reason I get files that start ._01 Track Name and it won't play, but if I scroll down on the folder I get the 01 Track Name and then plays fine. See pic below.
Here's the kicker though, when I tried playing files on my Oppo 103, the files take forever to load and I don't get artwork or that much track info like before. I know I should ask in Oppo 103 thread, but I just thought I mention it here.
Not sure you you ever resolved this issue. I am having the same trouble but think it might be related to using a Mac. There are hidden files on my USB that the spotlight feature of OS X makes automatically. I am wondering if these are the files that are showing up. Revealing hidden files on my mac did not reveal the ._01 files. I was wondering if you are using a mac, or if you have plugged the USB into a Mac. Hoping to resolve this issue as scrolling to the bottom of there list is annoying.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
05:59 PM Liked: 875
post #11008 of 11117
01-21-2015 | Posts: 22,365
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofsoren View Post
I have been having an issue with my 4520 and it has been just since I upgraded my tv to a Samsung UN75HU8550. Every couple of weeks when I turn on my system, I get no picture and sound out of the 4520. I have to do a soft reset by unplugging the 4520 for 2 minutes or so and it always corrects the problem. Is this because the new Samsung is an UHD TV with hdmi 2.0 jacks? Does it have to do something with the EDID between the 4520 and the Samsung? I plan to upgrade to the Denon X7200 sometime this spring/summer. Will that new piece solve my problem? Should I just go ahead and upgrade now?
Did you try going to another input on the 4520 and then go back to the input you want to watch? I've had to do this on occasion with all HDMI receivers I've used over the last ten years. It doesn't happen often but when it does I just go to an empty input and then back to the one with content and everything is fine.
NorthSky's Avatar NorthSky
06:11 PM Liked: 978
post #11009 of 11117
01-21-2015 | Posts: 7,165
Joined: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I remember watching Super 8 the first time and commenting in Ralph Potts' review thread and saying I thought the audio was less than overwhelming and he came up with this response:

"This is a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack which automatically sets the Onkyo's Night Listening Mode to "Auto". You have to manually set it to off once the track begins playing. Do that and watch some of these scenes over and see what you think".

Sure enough, it was so and I have found myself checking on others and finding it on again. Denon doesn't do that?
Very very important piece of info.

'Super 8' on Blu, with the "Late Night Mode" manually selected to Off (because indeed it automatically defaults to Auto, very unfortunately), is a gem to behold. ...Acting wise (from the young actors), and from the audio's perspective (awesome LFE/Bass, and surround sound effects). And I bet it must also sound awesome with DSU engaged. ...Or with Audyssey DSX.
...Excellent flick all around.

__________

By the way, there are few more Blu-ray movies with a Dolby TrueHD audio soundtrack that automatically engage the receiver's (pre/pro) Late Night Audio Mode to Auto (embedded in the discs themselves). /// 'Iron Man' is another one.
And you have to always manually select Off, or you going to have dynamic compression with those flicks. ...You just have to remember.
* Check in your Denon 4520, and see where it is set @ after you start playing one of those BD titles.
But for sure it does it with a bunch of Onkyo/Integra receivers and pre/pros. ...Very very unfortunate.

And if Denon/Marantz receivers aren't automatically triggered by those discs (Late Night Listening Audio Mode set to "Auto" from its "Off" selection),
then big bonus point for Denon/Marantz, and big point deduction for Onkyo/Integra.
oink's Avatar oink
08:57 PM Liked: 942
post #11010 of 11117
01-21-2015 | Posts: 27,189
Joined: Apr 2005
Need a little help here....
I am going to hook-up my Emotiva MPS-1 Amp and use the 4520 as a pre.


The manual isn't helping me out too much.
Which settings inside the Denon do I need to change?
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