The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 370 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11071 of 11075 Unread Today, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Which Emotiva pre/pro are you using? ...Or you are using the 4520 strictly as your pre/pro?
The latter.



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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I'd also like to hear how Oink came to that conclusion and with what particular Emotiva amp, which speakers and how he did the a/b. When I hooked the 4520 up yesterday I didn't use my power amps and the Denon doesn't seem to have any amp issues so far, but I haven't really cranked it up on familiar materials yet either. I will also be trying the power amps soon to see if there's any difference but I'm doubting it so far.
The 4520's amps do not produce as dynamic sound as my Emotiva MPS-1.
And, in theory, they shouldn't.
It would be amazing if they did.

For the ordinary listener, the Denon is just fine......the 32 bit processing is terrific.
However, in a full-blown HT with excellent speakers and where superb sound is demanded, it comes up a little short.
Looking at the Denon's amps specs, it really shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with high fidelity.

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post #11072 of 11075 Unread Today, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I'd also like to hear how Oink came to that conclusion and with what particular Emotiva amp, which speakers and how he did the a/b. When I hooked the 4520 up yesterday I didn't use my power amps and the Denon doesn't seem to have any amp issues so far, but I haven't really cranked it up on familiar materials yet either. I will also be trying the power amps soon to see if there's any difference but I'm doubting it so far.
The Denon's amps don't have "issues," per se.
As far as I can tell, they do exactly what they are supposed to do.
What I am talking about is dynamic audio quality, with clarity and expansion of the sound field that high powered amps can deliver.


I repeat, the Denon's amps do what they are supposed to do....seriously, there isn't anything "wrong" with them.
They are just fine for what Denon intended.

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post #11073 of 11075 Unread Today, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
1). It is a simple, non scientific test in my HT with a M&K Sound S150II THX Ultra2 Certified setup.
2) Assuming "pre-amp" mode in the Denon means the internal amps are NOT used.
3) Whether or not the Denon's display/manual is being "honest," I can't vouch for.
I don't care which amp is active...I go with what I hear.
4) BD lossless, of course.
OK thanks. Do you have the answers to the 4 questions I asked? I am wondering if you realise the importance of very precise level-matching and instantaneous switching, for example? If those two things alone are ignored, then, unfortunately, there are no meaningful conclusions which can be drawn from the test undertaken. The reason for the former is that it has been proven beyond doubt that unless units are precisely level matched to +/- 0.5dB, the louder unit will always "sound best" subjectively and will be preferred by a majority of listeners, consistently. And the reason the instantaneous switching is important is that human auditory memory only lasts for 3 or 4 seconds at best - so if the switch between units takes longer than that, then no conclusions at all can be drawn simply because the listener has no idea now what the first unit sounded like.

Of course, people do hear differences between units all the time, but this is almost always because of the improper way in which the tests have been set up. The other factor is inescapable human bias - when we know which unit is playing our biases eliminate the possibility of objectivity. Even when we understand human cognitive bias very well, we cannot control it or eliminate it in our minds as it is a subconscious phenomenon.

Normally none of this matters - if someone believes they hear a difference and comes to the conclusion that one unit "sounds better" than another, that is their own personal business. The problem arises if people spend money based on those (false) beliefs or on the 'recommendations' of others who hold those beliefs. It could be, for example, disastrous, if someone exchanged a perfectly good unit for another because he had been led to believe it sounded better when in fact, measured objectively, it doesn't.

As an aside, salesmen have long since known that customers always prefer the louder unit when they do these random, unscientific tests, and so the practice of nudging up the volume on the more expensive unit is commonplace.
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post #11074 of 11075 Unread Today, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

The 4520's amps do not produce as dynamic sound as my Emotiva MPS-1.
And, in theory, they shouldn't.
In fact, in theory they should!

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Originally Posted by oink View Post

It would be amazing if they did.
It would be even more amazing if they didn't
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post #11075 of 11075 Unread Today, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
In fact, in theory they should!



It would be even more amazing if they didn't
I have the schematics of the avr45620's amplifiers that I share here. I have verified that the parts shown in the diagrams are exactly what are in the boards.
In theory, at least, the amplifiers of the avr4520s will not sound better than a pocket radio.
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