The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 372 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #11131 of 11150 Old 01-29-2015, 06:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I'm pretty sure he got it from A4L on Amazon, which is an authorized reseller. If he had purchased directly from A4L he could have gotten free shipping to boot.

You are correct. I didn't know about the free shipping. Bummer! Oh well, it still feels like I got a good deal.
elee532 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #11132 of 11150 Old 01-29-2015, 06:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by tap View Post
As far as I can tell, the 4520CI can't play multi-channel files from the network. FLAC, AAC, DD, whatever, it won't do it. Stereo only.

Yikes, are you serious? This is not cool, as I already ordered the 4520. Ugh!
elee532 is offline  
post #11133 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 10:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,904
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by tap View Post
As far as I can tell, the 4520CI can't play multi-channel files from the network. FLAC, AAC, DD, whatever, it won't do it. Stereo only.

DSD is the format from super audio CDs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Yikes, are you serious? This is not cool, as I already ordered the 4520. Ugh!
Where do you guys get multichannel FLAC, AAC (what's DD...usually stands for dolby digital?) files?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #11134 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 10:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
Michael Sargent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Kemptville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Where do you guys get multichannel FLAC, AAC (what's DD...usually stands for dolby digital?) files?
I ripped all of my DVD-Audio disks, and more recently I have been ripping the High Fidelity Pure Audio Blu-Ray disks (some are multi-channel, but some are just stereo). I have also ripped Blu-Ray disks with concerts because if they are dts-HD Master Audio then they are also lossless. And finally, I have ripped good old DVD's, some with multi-channel Dolby Digital and some with dts. Sure, they're lossy, but they can still sound great.


Mike
elee532 likes this.
Michael Sargent is offline  
post #11135 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 10:56 AM
Senior Member
 
TorTorden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Yikes, are you serious? This is not cool, as I already ordered the 4520. Ugh!
It's a limitation in the network player that it would only do stereo (a bit weird I know)
I honestly don't know many network streamers that would do surround flac files or surround audio unless its baked in with video, this was in fact one of the reasons I got the oppo 103D that plays anything I throw at it.

Before I got the oppo I would have to use a computer hooked into the avr with HDMI (had that for xbmc anyways) but now I only use that for gaming.
TorTorden is online now  
post #11136 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,671
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1261 Post(s)
Liked: 629
See this thread for a relatively inexpensive solution:

Kodi (XBMC) via Chromebox

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #11137 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,904
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
I ripped all of my DVD-Audio disks, and more recently I have been ripping the High Fidelity Pure Audio Blu-Ray disks (some are multi-channel, but some are just stereo). I have also ripped Blu-Ray disks with concerts because if they are dts-HD Master Audio then they are also lossless. And finally, I have ripped good old DVD's, some with multi-channel Dolby Digital and some with dts. Sure, they're lossy, but they can still sound great.


Mike
Thanks, that I might like to learn how to do one of these days.... although currently I don't have a NAS or any significant storage device, and as the disk is handy to pop in the player not sure that I'll be looking into that for a while.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #11138 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 04:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
It's a limitation in the network player that it would only do stereo (a bit weird I know)



Demon should make this clear! The specs say lossless FLAC is supported. If that support is limited to stereo FLAC, why would they not state that? Streaming FLAC 5.1 was one of my primary reasons for getting a new AVR... XT32 and dual sub support were the other 2.


I appreciate the Kodi suggestion. Ironically though, getting rid of my existing HTPC which is running Kodi was another of the reasons I was getting this new AVR. Too many devices. Too many freeze UPS, error messages, update messages, etc.
elee532 is offline  
post #11139 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 04:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
I honestly don't know many network streamers that would do surround flac files or surround audio

Any idea what the limitation is?
elee532 is offline  
post #11140 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,904
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Any idea what the limitation is?
Number of people who even know what it is?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #11141 of 11150 Old 01-30-2015, 08:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Number of people who even know what it is?

I can play FLAC 5.1 files with Windows Media Player. It's not THAT obscure. :-)
elee532 is offline  
post #11142 of 11150 Old Yesterday, 06:05 AM
Member
 
Glock3540's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Just outside Nashville
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It takes almost no power at all to reach moderate volumes. Consider a typical 90dB sensitive speaker -- that means it puts out 90dB with ONE WATT of power at one meter distance. Even when you substract some power for distance it's still really, really loud with one watt.

Because of the exponential nature of power demands (a 10dB increase in SPL requires 10x the power) it takes very little power to reach pretty loud SPL... until, all of a sudden, you need a lot of power. It's those last 10dB that really gets you.
bat pig, You are one of my A/V heros! Always stating facts. As I personally found out on 3 different Denon receivers (AVR-4802, AVR-4810 and my current AVR-4520), sometimes the internal amplifier is not powerful enough. When trying to get those "last 10dB" and the Denon's internal amps start clipping, you Hear that to make it any louder (and remain listenable), you need external help! Thank You for your invaluable advice over the years. You have highly influenced several purchases and have not steered me wrong yet.
Thanks Again.
Blessings, Brian
wilbur_the_goose likes this.
Glock3540 is offline  
post #11143 of 11150 Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM
Senior Member
 
TorTorden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Any idea what the limitation is?
I have no real knowledge but if I was to guess, I'd say it was a combination with DSP paths and software, something like the network audio software player is only connected to the avr with two channels.

Anyways I'm just theorising wildly at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock3540 View Post
bat pig, You are one of my A/V heros! Always stating facts. As I personally found out on 3 different Denon receivers (AVR-4802, AVR-4810 and my current AVR-4520), sometimes the internal amplifier is not powerful enough. When trying to get those "last 10dB" and the Denon's internal amps start clipping, you Hear that to make it any louder (and remain listenable), you need external help! Thank You for your invaluable advice over the years. You have highly influenced several purchases and have not steered me wrong yet.
Thanks Again.
Blessings, Brian
Speaker sensitivity is measured with 1khz tone outputs, as the frequency of the sound that is reproduced changes so would the needed power output change. I wonder how loud a 40hz tone would be with one watt of power ?
And that fact alone pretty much invalidates the entire rating for all practical purposes.
Batpig certainly isn't wrong, but he isn't correct either, and this is pretty much why discussions such as these never really go anywhere good.

I bought an emotiva xpa5 while I had my former pioneer elite, cause with my new speakers it started sounding compressed during hectic scenes with lots of explosions at around mv -24.
I did the math then, and power REALLY shouldn't have been a problem (my entire 5 speaker system shouldn't need more than 150 watts at desired levels put together)
But testing out the xpa with that was night and day, I still have my xpa 5 with the denon cause it does sound better with it than without to my own subjective experience and testing, nowhere near the difference as with the pioneer which started sounding like it engaged DRC as things got interesting, but it does eliminate any need or desire for engaging dialog enhancer. A feature I found myself reaching for throughout my week of testing without the emo.

Would it spur me to buy an emo as the pioneer did. No.
Is the difference enough for me to keep the xpa5. Yes.

Last edited by TorTorden; Yesterday at 06:48 AM.
TorTorden is online now  
post #11144 of 11150 Old Yesterday, 07:42 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 22,388
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked: 885
This site

http://www.2l.no/hires/

has a bunch of high res FLAC files. In stereo and 5.1. I remember trying some last year with my Sony S6200. But I guess my SOny S6200 decoded them to pcm before being sent to my 4520.

53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3--32TB unRAID1a
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #11145 of 11150 Unread Yesterday, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,904
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
I have no real knowledge but if I was to guess, I'd say it was a combination with DSP paths and software, something like the network audio software player is only connected to the avr with two channels.

Anyways I'm just theorising wildly at this point.



Speaker sensitivity is measured with 1khz tone outputs, as the frequency of the sound that is reproduced changes so would the needed power output change. I wonder how loud a 40hz tone would be with one watt of power ?
And that fact alone pretty much invalidates the entire rating for all practical purposes.
Batpig certainly isn't wrong, but he isn't correct either, and this is pretty much why discussions such as these never really go anywhere good.

I bought an emotiva xpa5 while I had my former pioneer elite, cause with my new speakers it started sounding compressed during hectic scenes with lots of explosions at around mv -24.
I did the math then, and power REALLY shouldn't have been a problem (my entire 5 speaker system shouldn't need more than 150 watts at desired levels put together)
But testing out the xpa with that was night and day, I still have my xpa 5 with the denon cause it does sound better with it than without to my own subjective experience and testing, nowhere near the difference as with the pioneer which started sounding like it engaged DRC as things got interesting, but it does eliminate any need or desire for engaging dialog enhancer. A feature I found myself reaching for throughout my week of testing without the emo.

Would it spur me to buy an emo as the pioneer did. No.
Is the difference enough for me to keep the xpa5. Yes.
Yes, its nicer to have more detailed specs rather than just a guideline. What speakers was your experience above with?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #11146 of 11150 Unread Yesterday, 09:50 PM
Senior Member
 
paligap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 15
How do you set DSX Wide on this unit? On my 4310, there was a setting to direct it to do DSX Wide whenever it detected a 5.1 signal. I hooked up my wides to the correct terminals on this 4520, selected 9.1, ran Audyssey, but the DSX Wide is greyed out on 5.1 sources. What am I doing wrong?
paligap is offline  
post #11147 of 11150 Unread Yesterday, 10:02 PM
Senior Member
 
paligap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Okay, I selected 7.1 in amp assign, and then I was able to select DSX wide. All is good.
paligap is offline  
post #11148 of 11150 Unread Yesterday, 10:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,904
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Is there any user adjustment possible on the panel display? Specifically with Pandora the panel reads the song title on top line and then time and % (of internet signal apparently) on the bottom line instead of artist like my last avr did.... Bueller?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #11149 of 11150 Unread Today, 12:08 AM
tap
Member
 
tap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
I have no real knowledge but if I was to guess, I'd say it was a combination with DSP paths and software, something like the network audio software player is only connected to the avr with two channels.

Anyways I'm just theorising wildly at this point.
I think it's just lazy programming. It seems pretty common. I have an Onkyo 626 that won't play multichannel files either. Nor will the media player in my Panasonic tv nor the LG Bluray player. Seem a HTPC setup is basically the only thing that will.

The LG Bluray will play 192kHz FLAC, but if I check the audio info on the 4520 it reports it's receiving 48 kHz PCM. I imagine everything is just downsampled to 48 kHz in the media player app. I can't check the TV's app, since the Denon info button is really lame and doesn't change the info on the front panel display like it does on the Onkyo receiver. And Denon's Andriod app is also kinda lame and doesn't give you audio info.

But it makes me wonder how well >48kHz >16bit >2 channel audio actually works. Even when something can play it, how often does the software just downsample to 48kHz/16bit/2ch audio? Hell, can the 4520's media player really play 192kHz files? Yes, it says it can and it makes sound, but did it just downsample them to 48k?
tap is offline  
post #11150 of 11150 Unread Today, 06:07 AM
Senior Member
 
TorTorden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Yes, its nicer to have more detailed specs rather than just a guideline. What speakers was your experience above with?
(I should probably resize that but it's sunday and I don not intend to leave the couch, sue me.)


Not that well known a brand outside of scandinavia I guess, but running a 5.1 setup consisting of Dali mentor 6 fronts, their Mentor vokal center speakers, all three fronts use the same speaker modules so in total 6x 6.5" drivers with 3 dual dome\ribbon tweeters, rated at 6 ohm's and 89.5 db (90,5 db for the center) sensitivity. considering my room is also smaller than 30 square feet getting them to sound loud is not a problem.

And even though every salesman of this brand loves to say how easy they are to power, my experience says otherwise, I would rather have 100 watts headroom and not need it 99% of the time, but even at lower volumes I get benefits from the external amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tap View Post
I think it's just lazy programming. It seems pretty common. I have an Onkyo 626 that won't play multichannel files either. Nor will the media player in my Panasonic tv nor the LG Bluray player. Seem a HTPC setup is basically the only thing that will.

The LG Bluray will play 192kHz FLAC, but if I check the audio info on the 4520 it reports it's receiving 48 kHz PCM. I imagine everything is just downsampled to 48 kHz in the media player app. I can't check the TV's app, since the Denon info button is really lame and doesn't change the info on the front panel display like it does on the Onkyo receiver. And Denon's Andriod app is also kinda lame and doesn't give you audio info.

But it makes me wonder how well >48kHz >16bit >2 channel audio actually works. Even when something can play it, how often does the software just downsample to 48kHz/16bit/2ch audio? Hell, can the 4520's media player really play 192kHz files? Yes, it
says it can and it makes sound, but did it just downsample them to 48k?
Many good questions, I know for instance the X5200 downsamples to 48khz resolution when audyssey is engaged so certainly not outside the realm of possibillity that the 4520 does this as well.

But as far I can test it and I can tell (two topics highly worthy of debate), it doesn't. The audio info setting reports 192khz when I output it from my pc, and when streaming from the oppo it reports the files native resolution, most of my music happen to be 44,1 aparantly, my mingus is 88khz something I also downloaded a 192khz track from the site linked earlier and playing that over network through my oppo reports 192khz in the denon's audio-info submenu.

The oppo of course also handles surround flac, just to test I tried the denon media player with the same surround flac's but it only outputs stereo (as I would expect) the audio info page when using the media player no longer reports bitrate, it just says "Flac" as if that's what we want to know...

It could also be just lazy programming, but then again, the network features on these avr's are pretty much only for music, and we all must agree that surround\multi channel music never went big, or is common place.
So adding support for it would be costly since there probably is no "off the shelf", when they can also in my opinion rather safely assume that their customers who do care\want multi channel audio have and or prefer using different units for playing that music that already have all these capabilities I can see why they do it. I would still keep and use my Oppo 103d rather than use the network features in the denon, it is simply better, and it can go get the files themselves instead of relying on buggy DLNA servers.

The oppo of course also handles surround flac, just to test I tried the denon media player with the same surround flac's but it only outputs stereo (as I would expect)
TorTorden is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
Gear in this thread - 4520ci by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off