The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 388 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11611 of 12383 Old 03-10-2015, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebtx View Post
Thank you, that did not dawn on me. If I want to listen to music in 2.1 from an Oppo or PS3, what should I be doing?

If I want to listen to 5.1 HD audio/music from a blu ray, what are the optimal settings? I'm going to hook-up the rear 2 speakers soon. I (think I) listened to the 5.1 audio of the Bob Marley Legend blu ray in 3.1 last night by hitting the music surround mode and it sounded great. I'm just not sure i'm doing it all right. I have only had basic AVRs in the past and was never aware of the various audio formats I was missing.
If you stay away from the Direct and Pure Direct modes, the receiver will apply your speaker configuration to the incoming signal. So if you use modes such as Standard or Stereo, your 2 channel content will be processed into 2.1 assuming you have your front left/right speakers configured as small and have a subwoofer hooked up. The Standard mode will typically keep the incoming signal's channel configuration, apply your speaker distance and crossover settings, and apply Audyssey if you have it turned on. Spend some time with the full manual - Denon's manuals aren't the best in the world, but should do a decent job of explaining what the various modes are for. You may also find Batpig's guide handy (look for his posts in this thread and you should find a link in his signature).

Last edited by gsr; 03-10-2015 at 05:18 PM.
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post #11612 of 12383 Old 03-10-2015, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
If you stay aware from the Direct and Pure Direct modes, the receiver will apply your speaker configuration to the incoming signal. So if you use modes such as Standard or Stereo, your 2 channel content will be processed into 2.1 assuming you have your front left/right speakers configured as small and have a subwoofer hooked up. The Standard mode will typically keep the incoming signal's channel configuration, apply your speaker distance and crossover settings, and apply Audyssey if you have it turned on. Spend some time with the full manual - Denon's manuals aren't the best in the world, but should do a decent job of explaining what the various modes are for. You may also find Batpig's guide handy (look for his posts in this thread and you should find a link in his signature).
Thank you, for pointing me in the right direction. It is greatly appreciated.
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post #11613 of 12383 Old 03-10-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebtx View Post
Thank you, for pointing me in the right direction. It is greatly appreciated.
If you haven't, you really should read the first several posts in this thread....
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post #11614 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebtx View Post
Thank you, that did not dawn on me. If I want to listen to music in 2.1 from an Oppo or PS3, what should I be doing?
I wonder if one could connect the L/R preouts to a sub's L/R in, assuming the sub two channel input, and then set the cross-over on the sub to get bass management. The amplified L/R wouldn't have the bass filtered, but if the xover was low enough that might be acceptable.
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post #11615 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
I wonder if one could connect the L/R preouts to a sub's L/R in, assuming the sub two channel input, and then set the cross-over on the sub to get bass management. The amplified L/R wouldn't have the bass filtered, but if the xover was low enough that might be acceptable.
It is just a lot easier to use the bass management in the avr, isn't it?
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post #11616 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
I wonder if one could connect the L/R preouts to a sub's L/R in, assuming the sub two channel input, and then set the cross-over on the sub to get bass management. The amplified L/R wouldn't have the bass filtered, but if the xover was low enough that might be acceptable.
You probably can.
But why?

If you want to have the fronts play bass as well as the subwoofers just activate the Main+lfe setting in bass management and set the fronts to large.

I use this setting myself but do not recommend it since getting the sub and mains to not cancel each other out requires a lot of fine tuning.

You still won't get .1 feed when using direct or pure direct since that is one of the very reasons for these sound modes to begin with.
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post #11617 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 10:41 AM
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My "Network" OSD (TV) went bad today. Audio is perfectly fine. It was fuzzy until the "auto off" kicked in and now the screen is just black. Switching to "Always On" does nothing. If it wasn't for the Denon app, I would have no idea what was currently streaming. Yes, I can access the Denon settings menu. No, nothing changed since the last time I used the Network input. This affects all Network services, including streaming via AirPlay. My 4520 Is hard wired and has the current FW. In the Network Settings Menu > Diagnostics, connection and access is "OK".

Doing a router (gateway) power cycle now.

What should I do? Any thoughts @batpig @jdsmoothie

EDIT: Power cycling the gateway did nothing. I also unplugged the power cord of the AVR.

Last edited by davethestalker; 03-11-2015 at 12:46 PM.
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post #11618 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
You probably can. But why? I use this setting myself but do not recommend it since getting the sub and mains to not cancel each other out requires a lot of fine tuning.

FWIW I use the stereo out to connect to a sub on my Onk 8250 in the bedroom, simply because the AVR's sub out does not deliver enough voltage to trigger the sub to turn on. The 8250 has no EQ and no crossover settings for the sub. I assume its sub out is simply a mono mix of the two channels, mixed thru a resistor network... hence the low level output. I use the sub's crossover setting to keep higher frequencies away from the sub, and have it set to somewhere around the Lsi9's rolloff point... and believe me, getting the sub and Lsi9's to (as you put it) "not cancel each other out" is something that seems to always require tweaking.

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post #11619 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
You probably can.
But why?

If you want to have the fronts play bass as well as the subwoofers just activate the Main+lfe setting in bass management and set the fronts to large.

I use this setting myself but do not recommend it since getting the sub and mains to not cancel each other out requires a lot of fine tuning.

You still won't get .1 feed when using direct or pure direct since that is one of the very reasons for these sound modes to begin with.
If one wants to simulate the full range speakers with a sat+sub combination and would like to reproduce the full 20Hz to 20kHz bandwidth in DIRECT/PURE DIRECT mode, this is one way to do it.

By setting the fronts to LARGE and no sub on the receiver, the LFE (0.1) channel will be mixed into and directed to the front left and right channels. Thus there is no information lost in the 0.1 channel. I.e. if the soundtrack is 5.1, the receiver would mix to 5.0. If the soundtrack is 2.0, it would just pass this through.

Care needs to be taken in the crossover between sat+sub so that phase alignment is correct. This will depend on the crossover frequency, position and placement of the sat+sub, as well as the Main Listening Position (MLP). In room measurements to verify the smooth splice is the way to go.

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post #11620 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 06:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethestalker View Post
My "Network" OSD (TV) went bad today. Audio is perfectly fine. It was fuzzy until the "auto off" kicked in and now the screen is just black. Switching to "Always On" does nothing. If it wasn't for the Denon app, I would have no idea what was currently streaming. Yes, I can access the Denon settings menu. No, nothing changed since the last time I used the Network input. This affects all Network services, including streaming via AirPlay. My 4520 Is hard wired and has the current FW. In the Network Settings Menu > Diagnostics, connection and access is "OK".

Doing a router (gateway) power cycle now.

What should I do? Any thoughts @batpig @jdsmoothie

EDIT: Power cycling the gateway did nothing. I also unplugged the power cord of the AVR.
Other than sending it out for repair now, you can try loosening the three cover screws at the back, then flex the back panel by repeatedly pressing above and below the HDMI connectors. This action can often, albeit temporarily, re-connect whatever loose connections are inside the unit.

Last edited by doognam; 03-11-2015 at 07:04 PM. Reason: clarified context
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post #11621 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethestalker View Post
My "Network" OSD (TV) went bad today. Audio is perfectly fine. It was fuzzy until the "auto off" kicked in and now the screen is just black. Switching to "Always On" does nothing. If it wasn't for the Denon app, I would have no idea what was currently streaming. Yes, I can access the Denon settings menu. No, nothing changed since the last time I used the Network input. This affects all Network services, including streaming via AirPlay. My 4520 Is hard wired and has the current FW. In the Network Settings Menu > Diagnostics, connection and access is "OK".

Doing a router (gateway) power cycle now.

What should I do? Any thoughts @batpig @jdsmoothie

EDIT: Power cycling the gateway did nothing. I also unplugged the power cord of the AVR.
Yesterday I had turned on some Pandora in the morning and noticed the screen had gone to a fuzzy white screen instead of blank when the auto off kicked in. I tried a soft reset (unplugging the avr) which got rid of the white screen but didn't turn the screen blank after 30 seconds either, the OSD stayed on screen. I tried a network reset which didn't help. I did a full microprocessor reset and now for several hours it appears to be fine. Only glitch so far with the "new" 4520....but sure has me worried that the problems are persisting.
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post #11622 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethestalker View Post
My "Network" OSD (TV) went bad today. Audio is perfectly fine. It was fuzzy until the "auto off" kicked in and now the screen is just black. Switching to "Always On" does nothing. If it wasn't for the Denon app, I would have no idea what was currently streaming. Yes, I can access the Denon settings menu. No, nothing changed since the last time I used the Network input. This affects all Network services, including streaming via AirPlay. My 4520 Is hard wired and has the current FW. In the Network Settings Menu > Diagnostics, connection and access is "OK".

Doing a router (gateway) power cycle now.

What should I do? Any thoughts @batpig @jdsmoothie

EDIT: Power cycling the gateway did nothing. I also unplugged the power cord of the AVR.
The circuit board that supports the network OSD on my 4520 failed, causing exactly the symptoms you describe. I had it repaired under warranty. Fortunately, one of the best Denon repair facilities (Pyramid Audio) is here in Austin, about a 15-minute drive away. After the board was replaced, the unit has functioned flawlessly. Good luck with yours.
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post #11623 of 12383 Old 03-11-2015, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The circuit board that supports the network OSD on my 4520 failed, causing exactly the symptoms you describe. I had it repaired under warranty. Fortunately, one of the best Denon repair facilities (Pyramid Audio) is here in Austin, about a 15-minute drive away. After the board was replaced, the unit has functioned flawlessly. Good luck with yours.
Nice!
I work in Austin quite a bit so it's good to know there's a place if I ever need it.
Thanks
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post #11624 of 12383 Old 03-12-2015, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
You probably can.
But why?
Because in non-direct mode everything is downsampled to 16bit/48kHz. And pure direct turns off unnecessary circuits to (supposedly) reduce noise. So it would be a way to get direct or pure direct with a stereo source but still use a sub.

Now does 24/96 in pure direct mode really sound better than plain stereo mode? Someone probably thinks it does. Certainly a lot of people think their speakers sound better with a sub. So if someone wanted to combine the two, that would be a way to do it, since Denon didn't provide a real way to do it.
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post #11625 of 12383 Old 03-12-2015, 07:16 AM
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I am still have 3.1 wired and now have amp set to 5.1 plus zones 2/3. I watched tv and listened to music (fairly loudly) without issue for 2 nights even when I first incorrectly had 5.1 bi fronts set on the amp. Last night, we watched roughly 30 minutes of a travel/cooking show (Directv hdmi) in 1 of the movie surround modes at very moderate volumes and all Hell broke loose. I turned the volume to zero and the center continued to play. I switched to stereo and then fuzz in my L/R. The volume dial was acting quirky and not changing easily. I switched to blu ray and no sound. Back to satellite and a variety of results, but none the expected.

This morning I turned it on and tested it for 5 minutes before work and it generally functioned as expected on satellite and bluray. The volume dial again was delayed or non-responsive, but not as bad as last night. I have volume on the 0-100 and in the low to mid-40s is a comfortable volume. The blu ray audio I played sounded very good this morning. No fuzz or oddities, but I didn't play them very long. Thoughts?
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post #11626 of 12383 Old 03-12-2015, 01:08 PM
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Sounds like my second refurb. It didn't get any better in my case so I returned it. You might run a reset, at least a soft reset if not the full microprocessor reset (see post 3 of this thread).
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post #11627 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 04:54 AM
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Yesterday, we watched a hour or so of Directv, played a few audio blu rays and video dvds, and then listened to music at loud levels (58-62) from my server through a PS3 and not 1 issue. I changed modes numerous times throughout and not 1 hick-up. Whatever the issue was, I pray it is resolved. I love listening to my set-up and have a few pieces left to connect.
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post #11628 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 08:39 AM
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Smile Wonderful resource, not sure where to post my problem with my 4520

Dear Lovely AV people

Take pity on me potentially posting in the wrong place but I am in need of help.

I purchased a refurbished Denon AVR 4520 and it arrived yesterday.

On setting this amazing beast up, I could not get the sub upto 75db in the calibration, a Rel S3 in a small to medium room, the sub was fully turned up, crossover set at 80Hz. I popped teminator salvation and the bass was not there really, yes speaker set to small.

Compared to my Yamaha RV 373, cheap entry level which would make the house feel like it was going to crumble this top of the range beast is rather lacking.

Later I will try factory reset, firmware update, its not the sub I have two and tried the other.

I really want to work as apart from that the amp is a revelation, hooked up the Denon 3313 blu ray and holy moly this is cinema magic just with out the shake of my beloved rels which is a deal breaker is they are going to be outdone by my lowly yamaha amp.

Advice would be most welcome, I just need the amp to up its output from the pre-out, im not asking much.

Thanks in advance, and Im sure I will work out how to post properly soon.

graham
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post #11629 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hificrazy View Post
Dear Lovely AV people

Take pity on me potentially posting in the wrong place but I am in need of help.

I purchased a refurbished Denon AVR 4520 and it arrived yesterday.

On setting this amazing beast up, I could not get the sub upto 75db in the calibration, a Rel S3 in a small to medium room, the sub was fully turned up, crossover set at 80Hz. I popped teminator salvation and the bass was not there really, yes speaker set to small.

Compared to my Yamaha RV 373, cheap entry level which would make the house feel like it was going to crumble this top of the range beast is rather lacking.

Later I will try factory reset, firmware update, its not the sub I have two and tried the other.

I really want to work as apart from that the amp is a revelation, hooked up the Denon 3313 blu ray and holy moly this is cinema magic just with out the shake of my beloved rels which is a deal breaker is they are going to be outdone by my lowly yamaha amp.

Advice would be most welcome, I just need the amp to up its output from the pre-out, im not asking much.

Thanks in advance, and Im sure I will work out how to post properly soon.

graham
Did you run Audyssey?
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post #11630 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hificrazy View Post
Dear Lovely AV people

Take pity on me potentially posting in the wrong place but I am in need of help.

I purchased a refurbished Denon AVR 4520 and it arrived yesterday.

On setting this amazing beast up, I could not get the sub upto 75db in the calibration, a Rel S3 in a small to medium room, the sub was fully turned up, crossover set at 80Hz. I popped teminator salvation and the bass was not there really, yes speaker set to small.

Compared to my Yamaha RV 373, cheap entry level which would make the house feel like it was going to crumble this top of the range beast is rather lacking.

Later I will try factory reset, firmware update, its not the sub I have two and tried the other.

I really want to work as apart from that the amp is a revelation, hooked up the Denon 3313 blu ray and holy moly this is cinema magic just with out the shake of my beloved rels which is a deal breaker is they are going to be outdone by my lowly yamaha amp.

Advice would be most welcome, I just need the amp to up its output from the pre-out, im not asking much.

Thanks in advance, and Im sure I will work out how to post properly soon.

graham
Are you connected to the LFE in on the S/3 and using the ".1/LFE Level" knob to increase the gain?

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post #11631 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 11:50 AM
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Did you set the crossover of 80 on the sub itself or manually set that way in the avr? If the sub, max it out.

Were you setting up just one sub or two? Have you increased the subwoofer level in the avr?
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post #11632 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hificrazy View Post
Dear Lovely AV people

Take pity on me potentially posting in the wrong place but I am in need of help.

I purchased a refurbished Denon AVR 4520 and it arrived yesterday.

On setting this amazing beast up, I could not get the sub upto 75db in the calibration, a Rel S3 in a small to medium room, the sub was fully turned up, crossover set at 80Hz. I popped teminator salvation and the bass was not there really, yes speaker set to small.

Compared to my Yamaha RV 373, cheap entry level which would make the house feel like it was going to crumble this top of the range beast is rather lacking.

Later I will try factory reset, firmware update, its not the sub I have two and tried the other.

I really want to work as apart from that the amp is a revelation, hooked up the Denon 3313 blu ray and holy moly this is cinema magic just with out the shake of my beloved rels which is a deal breaker is they are going to be outdone by my lowly yamaha amp.

Advice would be most welcome, I just need the amp to up its output from the pre-out, im not asking much.

Thanks in advance, and Im sure I will work out how to post properly soon.

graham
I am with kbarns701 - run Audessey and if still not enough sub for your taste, kick up the sub 3-5 db over where Audessey sets it. IIRC Audessey had mine set to -2.5 and I kicked it up to zero.
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post #11633 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 02:59 PM
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Is external biamping available for FR and FL in a 5.1 setup available to the Denon 4520?

I'm about to hook up a B&K 7250 Series II amp (5 channel 200W per channel at 8ohm)

Or would you just use the other 2 channels of the ext amp for the surrounds?
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post #11634 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
I am with kbarns701 - run Audessey and if still not enough sub for your taste, kick up the sub 3-5 db over where Audessey sets it. IIRC Audessey had mine set to -2.5 and I kicked it up to zero.
Folks, when you run Audyssey on the 4520, the first thing it does is get you to set the sub level to 75db using the sub gain/volume and a signal it continuously sends while a graphic displays showing you when you get to 75db. I am not sure if this is what the OP did in his efforts, but I suspect so.

I would suggest seeing if the sub cable is fully connected at both ends, and also is it possible that the sub is malfunctioning? Could the sub cable be faulty? The Denon has 2 sub outputs, are you connected to subwoofer 1?

In the Denon set up menu under "audio set up", there is a subwoofer level adjustment, what level does it say the subwoofer output is?
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post #11635 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
In the Denon set up menu under "audio set up", there is a subwoofer level adjustment, what level does it say the subwoofer output is?
Yeah - I see what you are saying. If the OP's original issue is getting the sub up to 75 to run Audessey I am not sure what to do other than check connections and be sure to tell the 4520 there is but a single sub if only using one of the outputs, and make sure it is connected to sub 1.


When running Audessey I don't think any attention at all is paid to what the subwoofer level adjustment is set at - it is just sending a -30 dB FS output signal that SHOULD drive the sub to 75 dB SPL.


We should also consider the possibility of a defective mic. (Or one that is not plugged in good )


To the OP you can check the mic by installing one of the free SPL meters available for Android and for Apple phones/tablets that, while not perfectly accurate, will be good enough to check the mic. When Audessey setup is playing the test tone, hold your phone/tablet near the Audessey mic and see what kind of SPL is being reported. If your phone/tablet indicates the test tone through the sub is 75 dB or greater you probably have a bad mic.
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post #11636 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 07:19 PM
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This should be relatively easy. At the beginning of the Audyssey calibration, there is a routine to set the subwoofer level. While the sub level-setting tone is playing, the subwoofer gain control should be adjusted so that the calibration is showing a 75dB output from the sub, with the Audyssey mic at ear-level at the MLP. If the sub's output cannot be adjusted to register 75dB, then the sub is defective, the Audyssey mic is defective, or the proper procedure is not being followed.
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post #11637 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 07:45 PM
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Audio4life and Austin Jerry nailed it.
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post #11638 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 09:38 PM
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As I said before, there are two separate gain knobs on the S/2 sub, he needs to make sure he is using the correct one (along with the correct input).

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post #11639 of 12383 Old 03-13-2015, 09:55 PM
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Hello, I'm sure this has been answered plenty, but I'm in the market for an AVR. I've been looking very hard at 4520ci refurbs at $850, is it worth it? Have there been many problems with refurbished units? Is there anything else out there in this price range worth considering? I honestly really only wanted to spent around $700 so the 4520ci is pushing it, but feature wise it looks worth it. I'm looking for XT32+SubEQ and good audio quality above any other feature, I have a 8350 and I won't be able to afford or have the desire to buy a 4k projector for years so all those emerging formats don't really offer me anything. A refurbished 4311ci is another option for even less, but I vastly prefer the more minimal look of the new Denon chassis. Thought, experiences,suggestions?
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post #11640 of 12383 Old 03-14-2015, 01:01 AM
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Hi

Thanks for reply, so I know have two subs connected and both having the same problem on half volume they read 65db and listening potion, full volume on the sub gets to 70 db, they are brand new, new cables, abd connected to sub 1 and 2, with previous AV amp there was no problem, seems like the output for the calibration is very low, I have also tried another Mic as I have an old denon. As this is all correct and I am following the procedure i thinking the av amp in at fault.

I have done a hard reset checked the firmware update. does not seem right, subs are 2xrel S3

Any advice welcome

Thanks

Graham
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